I've seen certain players in the last few games,that
are just going through the motions knowing they are picking up a good wage.
Them certain players don't have too much passion for the shirt,and to give blood for the cause.
Dreadful performance by some today,and if it wasn't for our keeper and the woodwork 5-0 could have been score......Gutless performance, especially it being a local derby.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on December 14, 2019, 05:30:42 PM
I've seen certain players in the last few games,that
are just going through the motions knowing they are picking up a good wage.
Them certain players don't have too much passion for the shirt,and to give blood for the cause.
Dreadful performance by some today,and if it wasn't for our keeper and the woodwork 5-0 could have been score......Gutless performance, especially it being a local derby.
How many can you lock up in your shed and throw away the key? If less than 5, please message me your bank details and I will do a transfer so that you can buy a bigger shed!
It is up to the manager to get the players motivated though
Quote from: @jolslover on December 14, 2019, 05:38:13 PM
It is up to the manager to get the players motivated though
Really....If they really cared about the club,they don't need to be motivated by anyone else.
Either the players aren't good enough or the coach is not up to it.
Looking forward to Christmas and having some food etc.
Quote from: @jolslover on December 14, 2019, 05:38:13 PM
It is up to the manager to get the players motivated though
exactly
Quote from: Penfold on December 14, 2019, 05:42:56 PM
Either the players aren't good enough or the coach is not up to it.
Looking forward to Christmas and having some food etc.
Or maybe even both, which would be my assessment.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on December 14, 2019, 05:30:42 PM
I've seen certain players in the last few games,that
are just going through the motions knowing they are picking up a good wage.
Them certain players don't have too much passion for the shirt,and to give blood for the cause.
Dreadful performance by some today,and if it wasn't for our keeper and the woodwork 5-0 could have been score......Gutless performance, especially it being a local derby.
I still like the 'all fur coats, no knickers' line for the prima donna Championship players. I mentioned on the matchday thread that the first mention of Cairney was on fifty minutes which is brilliant when compared to Cav who I assumed was'nt playing. You are right of course but the board will, even now, be split over the expensively assembled squad being poorly led to a potential leader having to make do with legends in their own bath time who could quite easily up sticks and go in January. I repeat what I said earlier..... what a mess we are in.
Quote from: ScalleysDad on December 14, 2019, 05:44:26 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on December 14, 2019, 05:30:42 PM
I've seen certain players in the last few games,that
are just going through the motions knowing they are picking up a good wage.
Them certain players don't have too much passion for the shirt,and to give blood for the cause.
Dreadful performance by some today,and if it wasn't for our keeper and the woodwork 5-0 could have been score......Gutless performance, especially it being a local derby.
I still like the 'all fur coats, no knickers' line for the prima donna Championship players. I mentioned on the matchday thread that the first mention of Cairney was on fifty minutes which is brilliant when compared to Cav who I assumed was'nt playing. You are right of course but the board will, even now, be split over the expensively assembled squad being poorly led to a potential leader having to make do with legends in their own bath time who could quite easily up sticks and go in January. I repeat what I said earlier..... what a mess we are in.
I don't understand - would you rather us be in the same position with players that couldn't leave in January? With players that nobody wants?
No - we are not in a terrible position and I still suspect we will finish in the play offs. If you consider that to be a terrible position then fair enough.
Quote from: @jolslover on December 14, 2019, 05:38:13 PM
It is up to the manager to get the players motivated though
In part but motivation, application and attitude is not on the UEFA licence. It cannot be poured, sliced or rubbed in and has to come from the players. Tactics might be called into question but a 'can't be ar#ed attitude is not worked on at MP. As Mince says some of this squad need to go elsewhere.
I thought Parker was THE man to motivate. Or is it.. he's one of the lads and doesn't want to crack the whip.
Presumably he is very motivated to be successful as a manager with Fulham - how many chances do you get when starting out? He must know he has to prove himself, and that , as a recent ex-player, people might accuse him of being too matey.
I'm not saying he doesn't have faults, or possess the right attributes for a manager at tis level, but has he had enough of a chance to tell?
Well, he'll be out of he isn't successful, that's for sure.
Once again our summer signings have proved not to be as good as we all believed they would be.
In particular Knock and Cavy arrived with a good reputations but have done little to bother opposing defences.
A few more defeats and a top six finish will be out of sight and mid table mediocrity will be our goal for this season. At that point Parker should abandon his expensive underperforming players and introduce some of our youngsters.
It was nice to see that we can do pretty well with the same tactics used against us, which is hoof the ball down the sides or through the center, and let the possession start in more advanced positions. I'm not frustrated with Parker, but the simple defensive errors that make hoof-ball look like a tactic. It's not getting us anywhere positive, but at least we play a different game than 80% of the teams in the league. Sadly though, I feel it's time that Parker give into that style of play just a bit more to free up the players.
Quote from: Matt10 on December 14, 2019, 06:58:36 PM
It was nice to see that we can do pretty well with the same tactics used against us, which is hoof the ball down the sides or through the center, and let the possession start in more advanced positions. I'm not frustrated with Parker, but the simple defensive errors that make hoof-ball look like a tactic. It's not getting us anywhere positive, but at least we play a different game than 80% of the teams in the league. Sadly though, I feel it's time that Parker give into that style of play just a bit more to free up the players.
And soon maybe Matt, 80% of the teams might be above us if we don´t start performing!
If the players really don't believe in his system and style he will loose the dressing room. Maybe the rot has already set in and some no longer play for him.
Quote from: Luka on December 14, 2019, 07:04:49 PM
If the players really don't believe in his system and style he will loose the dressing room. Maybe the rot has already set in and some no longer play for him.
It would be a huge U turn and quite a quick turnaround as last season he was seen as the small chink of sanity amongst all the carnage. He talked to the players on the pitch, consoled and congratulated in equal measure and on his appointment the word from the dressing room was very positive.
I wonder if there is a similar issue to last season when a couple of groups developed within the squad. When AK scored his brace it did not seem like it but something is missing at the moment.
I agree with your points MJG.
But I believe this is because he has lost the dressing room.
If he can't motivate this group of players when chasing promotion there is something seriously wrong.
Imo, it's wrong with him.
Coyw!
Quote from: filham on December 14, 2019, 06:50:24 PM
Once again our summer signings have proved not to be as good as we all believed they would be.
In particular Knock and Cavy arrived with a good reputations but have done little to bother opposing defences.
A few more defeats and a top six finish will be out of sight and mid table mediocrity will be our goal for this season. At that point Parker should abandon his expensive underperforming players and introduce some of our youngsters.
Under Hughton Knockhaert and Cav under Nuno Espirito Santo performed to a very good level.
Many Brighton and Wolves fans were disappointed that their player went to us on loan.
Is it a coincidence that both players are as a number of others underperforming with Parker as their coach?
Quote from: spikey norman on December 14, 2019, 08:06:09 PM
Quote from: filham on December 14, 2019, 06:50:24 PM
Once again our summer signings have proved not to be as good as we all believed they would be.
In particular Knock and Cavy arrived with a good reputations but have done little to bother opposing defences.
A few more defeats and a top six finish will be out of sight and mid table mediocrity will be our goal for this season. At that point Parker should abandon his expensive underperforming players and introduce some of our youngsters.
Under Hughton Knockhaert and Cav under Nuno Espirito Santo performed to a very good level.
Many Brighton and Wolves fans were disappointed that their player went to us on loan.
Is it a coincidence that both players are as a number of others underperforming with Parker as their coach?
i actually thought knockheart di well when he came on, ok he didn't achieved too much but he running at and terrorising their defence a fair bit.
Personally, God forbid we get promoted this season, it will be an exact repetition of the last time.
I saw not one player out there suitable for playing in the Prem today, and that wasn't just down to tactics, or a lack of them, it was an absolute lack of passion. Good players can overcome the lack of tactics, they can improvise when something is not working, poor players cannot, and nobody out there appeared to know what they were supposed to do.
For a back four, the pair of them were not effective, whilst the other two were MIA (I leave it to you to determine the pairings - but don't take too long). The midfield tried, oh how they tried, but could not provide the top 2 the service they should have expected. Mitro cut a very frustrated person, and neeskens worked overtime to make up for others' shortcomings. Apart from that, it all went swimmingly well.
Quote from: @jolslover on December 14, 2019, 05:38:13 PM
It is up to the manager to get the players motivated though
Players should be able to motivate themselves, they are competitors so they should be able to compete without being wet nursed by the manager. A lot of it is down to the characters of some players, and the fact they are far too comfortable. There is no real heart beat in the team, no keadership. No one for all and all for one. It was a London Derby and only one team acknowledged it. We have our fair share of milky players, too many, and it shows. We have had three managers in less than a year, are they all wrong, or is there a deeper lying issue.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on December 14, 2019, 09:54:56 PM
Quote from: @jolslover on December 14, 2019, 05:38:13 PM
It is up to the manager to get the players motivated though
Players should be able to motivate themselves, they are competitors so they should be able to compete without being wet nursed by the manager. A lot of it is down to the characters of some players, and the fact they are far too comfortable. There is no real heart beat in the team, no keadership. No one for all and all for one. It was a London Derby and only one team acknowledged it. We have our fair share of milky players, too many, and it shows. We have had three managers in less than a year, are they all wrong, or is there a deeper lying issue.
keadership what is that Woolly, not a word I am familiar with before a few gins or even after them? Obviously at this time of night the latter applies!
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on December 14, 2019, 09:54:56 PM
Quote from: @jolslover on December 14, 2019, 05:38:13 PM
It is up to the manager to get the players motivated though
Players should be able to motivate themselves, they are competitors so they should be able to compete without being wet nursed by the manager. A lot of it is down to the characters of some players, and the fact they are far too comfortable. There is no real heart beat in the team, no keadership. No one for all and all for one. It was a London Derby and only one team acknowledged it. We have our fair share of milky players, too many, and it shows. We have had three managers in less than a year, are they all wrong, or is there a deeper lying issue.
With all due respect Wooly, I don't think it was a matter of heart or leadership or players not acknowledging that it was a London derby today. I think they tried and played hard, but simply Brentford was a better team than us and it was not because their players played with more heart than ours.
I find it interesting to note that we haven't won a game since some of the players went on their Christmas outing to Sweden, an event that should've helped team bonding and cohesion.
Yet today we saw both Bryan and Mawson & Mitro and Knockaert having a right go at each other.
Quote from: davew on December 14, 2019, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: Matt10 on December 14, 2019, 06:58:36 PM
It was nice to see that we can do pretty well with the same tactics used against us, which is hoof the ball down the sides or through the center, and let the possession start in more advanced positions. I'm not frustrated with Parker, but the simple defensive errors that make hoof-ball look like a tactic. It's not getting us anywhere positive, but at least we play a different game than 80% of the teams in the league. Sadly though, I feel it's time that Parker give into that style of play just a bit more to free up the players.
And soon maybe Matt, 80% of the teams might be above us if we don´t start performing!
Quite right, it could be likely if he doesn't release a bit more control of the individual play style a bit. Think we just need to mix it up a lot more and create chances that become 50/50 versus us essentially trying to walk the ball into the net. In the second half we lessened the crosses and dropped passes to the top of the box in which we managed 3 shots that were fairly close. When we started hoofing to Mitro, we were there to recover second balls better and create chances.
Hoping that Parker sees we are rarely beaten through slick passing from an opposition's slow build up, so there may be more emphasis to lessen the rigid central midfield defensively - and allow a second striker to play alongside Mitro. This will allow Mitro to be double-teamed less and some of those crosses we sent in today can actually find some pay off. I'd put Cav or Kamara alongside him asap. Cav can find the back of the net and hold up the ball, and so can Kamara - who has shown lately he just can't play that RW/LW spot. He's a striker, and he needs to be put in that position to be one. From there, it's Knock on the left and Reid on the right, while StefJo and Cairney central. We should be able to send balls down the sides like the majority of our opposition do, or opt to go high and central. I don't care if it's Parker or whoever to do it, but those are the tactics we need to start pushing for regardless.
I'm long convince that players do what they want irrespective of who the manager is ,blame the players for not being interested
Quote from: hovewhite on December 15, 2019, 06:55:26 AM
I'm long convince that players do what they want irrespective of who the manager is ,blame the players for not being interested
Why would the players not be interested?
Sent from my Redmi Note 4X using Tapatalk
Cav and Knockaert get a lot of flack for underperforming but the truth is the style of play does not suit them, they are both suited to counter attacking football which gets the opposition on the back foot, any winger would struggle to make an impact in our team as the build up play is so slow teams are set up with two banks of four ready to turnover play and counter us, i think the dressing room if not already lost will be very soon as the tactics the manger insists on is making some players look a lot worse than what they are and impossible for them to perform.
Spineless, gutless players, or guys who don't believe the team handlers are asking for anything different from what they're delivering and know arguing for a different set up is futile. Parker is either the guy asking for this rubbish or he has no control over his players and perhaps never has done. Whichever way you hack it Parker has a squad of player and he can express his anger in many different ways including telling players they are spineless and gutless ... It is as bad now as it was up at Barnsley on day one. Parker either doesn't know what he is about, is incapable as a coach at this stage of his career, or is simply doing what his players are doing - going through the motions.
Our current problem is the lack of players who can transfer the ball quickly & accurately from our back 4 to the edge of the opponents penalty area. Johansen tries but can't do it on his own. TC is not playing high enough which is starving Mitro. Maybe when Arter, Reed & Reid are back fully fit we might see a change.
Nothing wrong with keeping the ball for periods of time even if we don't threaten the oppositions goal as long as you are making the opposition work tirelessly to ensure you don't create those chances.
The fact we keep the ball for long periods means we are still in some games despite not performing well and against many Championship teams that's enough to give us a chance.
But if you don't change gear and pull their defence around to create space and chances the 'keep ball' tactic becomes a burden in itself, going round and round in circles until you lose the ball and put yourself under threat.
Even allowing for the weak links in the squad, this team is less than the sum of its parts and at any level a lot of that is down to the coaching.
