After the game, I came on here expecting most people to be cautiously satisfied with the point gained. Instead I saw all sorts of criticism of our performance, season and manager.
The following I think is pertinent:
- we have a lot of injuries especially up front
- we were playing away from home
- the opposition as they were in the reverse fixture proved to be stubborn. They have a manager who I hate from his playing days but I would say appears to be a canny head coach tactics wise.
- we shut them out - they didn't have any clear chances I think.
I think a point was reasonable from this fixture.
We have a rookie manager who has got us to within touching distance of auto promotion half way through the season. I would have taken this position if someone would have asked me at the start of the campaign.
Yes you have to laugh, there's a few Managers on here after every game telling Scotty where he went wrong..😁😁😁
Agree with OP
Thought we played and managed the game well
0-0 was an acceptable plan with the team set up and availability
Nick a goal if we could at the end
Thought the players looked like they knew they wouldn't score after about 70 minutes and took the draw
Will need something more dynamic in the playoffs but assume some of the forwards will be fit again soon
Well, Charlton could have quite easily broken away and scored on against the run of play, if we'd completely thrown caution to the winds going for a result in the final minutes.
Though Scott put on Stansfield up front, only not much time for him to make an impression.
This Boards hysterical reaction to last nights result seemingly includes this delusional perspective. What one earth has happened to sanity?
I thought the board was quite balanced last night. Definitely wouldn't describe it as hysterical. Certainly didn't go into meltdown. Posters were not surprisingly frustrated/disappointed with the result but many posters were realistic given the way Charlton set up and our lack of firepower due to injuries.
Two most pertinent points in the OP, which largely explain both the result and our season so far -
"They have... a canny head coach"
"We have a rookie manager"
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on January 23, 2020, 08:01:30 AM
After the game, once I'd finished my Shisha, I came on here expecting most people to be cautiously satisfied with the point gained. Instead I saw all sorts
The following I think is pertinent:
- we have a lot of injuries especially up front
- we were playing away from home
- the opposition as they were in the reverse fixture proved to be stubborn. They have a manager who I hate from his playing days but I would say appears to be a canny head coach tactics wise.
- we shut them out - they didn't have any clear chances I think.
I think a point was reasonable from this fixture.
We have a rookie manager who has got us to within touching distance of auto promotion half way through the season. I would have taken this position if someone would have asked me at the start of the campaign.
The front three that we had on the field are worth a combined value of £21m, which more than Charlton's entire playing squad worth £17m. Even with injuries, the combined value of our matchday 18 is around £80m, which is still more than any other team in the league's entire squad. When parachute payments end in May 2021, we will be in exactly the same financial position as QPR and Middlesbrough were at the start of this season. We would be like every other Championship Club, with a rich owner that wants to put more money into the club but cannot due to FFP.
As you pointed out, they have canny head coach tactics wise and we have a rookie manager. I agree Scott Parker is awesome as a rookie manager, but he isn't as good as an experienced manager. And, the only standard Parker should be measured against is that of an experienced manager because we can afford one.
Parker will only stay at this club as long as the club is big enough for him, and as a rookie manager he is rising fast but we may be falling as we get closer to the date parachute payments end and our budget is the same as QPRs.
Hardly a 'canny manager'. Parker and Bowyer are both 'rookie managers'. It's not rocket science to set a limited team like Charlton up to park the bus against a side with the talent we have at our disposal. I'm sure we'll see more of it. Fortunately we have quality players to come back. Charlton were at home and played with no ambition.
My only real disappointment with last night was the substitutions . We were crying out for a change up top - but SP decided not to 'gamble ' with his rookie centre forward until 3 minutes from the end . Compare this to his opposite number who changed it with twenty minutes to go. Parker gave Stansfield 10 minutes in the cup against Villa but clearly wasn't prepared to go for it against lower opposition in a game when 3 points were really needed to add pressure on the top two.
Quote from: Whitestone on January 23, 2020, 09:29:10 AM
Hardly a 'canny manager'. Parker and Bowyer are both 'rookie managers'. It's not rocket science to set a limited team like Charlton up to park the bus against a side with the talent we have at our disposal. I'm sure we'll see more of it. Fortunately we have quality players to come back. Charlton were at home and played with no ambition.
Now our defense is better, other managers see the easiest way to get points is now to "Park the Bus" or "The Double Bus". Bowyer is a canny manager as he followed the Sam Allardyce Tactics 101 method, most of the best 10,000 football managers in the UK have used these tactics from time to time.
Not so much hysterical but some always are looking for someone to blame. Can't blame it on the long injury list so blame it on the coach or the lack of effort or whatever. I am afraid frustration and the instant gratification culture means football like everything else has to have instant results and instant opinion and criticism.
We didn't play well and yet got a point. That is a point earned away from home for me.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 23, 2020, 09:34:25 AM
Quote from: Whitestone on January 23, 2020, 09:29:10 AM
Hardly a 'canny manager'. Parker and Bowyer are both 'rookie managers'. It's not rocket science to set a limited team like Charlton up to park the bus against a side with the talent we have at our disposal. I'm sure we'll see more of it. Fortunately we have quality players to come back. Charlton were at home and played with no ambition.
Now our defense is better and our attack is weaker, other managers see the easiest way to get points is now to "Park the Bus" or "The Double Bus".
I think you're right. Fortunately our attack won't be weak for much longer. We have more than enough quality in the squad to unlock teams like Charlton when all of our forwards are available, which won't be long now.
Three league games on the bounce with the clean sheets and the outstanding centre back that we have craved for so long but we are not happy. We now realise that a lack of goals is worse than a leaky defence and that Ried is a not a goalscorer or capable of standing in for Mitro or even Kamara.
We are aware that we have to play more league matches without a match fit Mitro or Kamara and can see no solution to the goalscoring problem, us fans are frustrated hence last night's reaction.
A lack of goals is a more difficult problem for Parker than a leaky defence was.
Quote from: Whitestone on January 23, 2020, 09:39:12 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 23, 2020, 09:34:25 AM
Quote from: Whitestone on January 23, 2020, 09:29:10 AM
Hardly a 'canny manager'. Parker and Bowyer are both 'rookie managers'. It's not rocket science to set a limited team like Charlton up to park the bus against a side with the talent we have at our disposal. I'm sure we'll see more of it. Fortunately we have quality players to come back. Charlton were at home and played with no ambition.
Now our defense is better and our attack is weaker, other managers see the easiest way to get points is now to "Park the Bus" or "The Double Bus".
I think you're right. Fortunately our attack won't be weak for much longer. We have more than enough quality in the squad to unlock teams like Charlton when all of our forwards are available, which won't be long now.
We had more than enough quality last night. Cavaleiro, Reid, Bryan (as LW) and Cairney is a front 4 most of (if not all) the other teams in this division would give their back teeth for
I could understand you suggesting people are hysterical if calling for Parkers head was mentioned, sacking TK or saying it was a disaster, doom and gloom scenario, but the overwhelmin responses, including my own said it was a poor performance and a missed opportunity which, I'm not sure how else you can describe it. Charlton hadn't kept a clean sheet in 11 games, (I think) and are 20th in form table so it's not unreasonable with this team to think 3 points was what should be expected. Oh well, just need to rely on other teams slipping up again to keep us within distance as slipping back after playing Charlton is hardly a good thing for a team hunting for automatic.
Quote from: FFC1987 on January 23, 2020, 10:28:46 AM
I could understand you suggesting people are hysterical if calling for Parkers head was mentioned, sacking TK or saying it was a disaster, doom and gloom scenario, but the overwhelmin responses, including my own said it was a poor performance and a missed opportunity which, I'm not sure how else you can describe it. Charlton hadn't kept a clean sheet in 11 games, (I think) and are 20th in form table so it's not unreasonable with this team to think 3 points was what should be expected. Oh well, just need to rely on other teams slipping up again to keep us within distance as slipping back after playing Charlton is hardly a good thing for a team hunting for automatic.
To be fair, we're undefeated against the top five sides in the league.
It was a dire game of football to watch and Charlton were really poor quality.
We were clueless in the final third.
We lacked flair, energy and imagination.
Not hysterical.....just want to at be entertained (and thats a minimum requirement) !
I think we are hysterical because we have finally fixed our defense only to find we cannot unlock teams with a double bus.
God forbid what you will all be like next season if we get promoted and start getting slapped 6-0 by Liverpool
I would quite happily settle now for defeat at Wembley and another year in a division where any team can beat the other team as there are no fancy money swilling, money laundering tycoon
Or perhaps you might like the Khans to seel out to Isabel dos Santos (check her out) then we could buy all the best players in the world
You put 11 players on the pitch. Are they all 100% fit? unknown to us but the manager knows. Cairney has come in for a lot of stick lately but he has only just returned from a calf injury. Is he fully fit? I doubt it. Arter has been out for at least 2 months with something similar. Is he fully fit.? Probably not. There is only one way to get fit for matches that is to play
Still defend my stance that Charlton offered nothing and we should have been more attacking. We had the players to keep our 4-3-3 formation if we rejigged a bit. Parker did this too late and at a time where we were in a lull. We couldn't then get out of that lull in time to break down two banks of 4.
I am not sure what was said last night because I did not read it all.
I am not sure what this post is about either because last night's display was frankly abysmal.
The young manager showed a remarkable lack of imagintion with team selection, the players all seemed to manage to choose poor options and misplaced passes, even in the lasyt moment Kmac from a throw in deep in Charlton's hal;f threw the ball such that ream was immediately under pressure lost the ball and led to a difficult late situation when could just as easily played forward and tried for a late goal.
In the grans scheme it was a third clean sheet on the spin but that was because the opposition was so very poor.
Our forwards, so called looked clueless and Cav showed in spectacualr fashion why wolves were happy to let him go.
TC is pushed way too far up the pitch but enough of our best chances came with thih his assistance. If parker continus to play just behind the forwards he may as well not play him because that is not his position, he needs to play much deeper to be able to affect the game to his best.
Bryan continues to be a force going forward but not much of a defender but the truth was parker got team selection and substitutions wrong. That is not hysterical but a fact. His options are limited but people like me that say TK is clueless in not getting a replacement center forward are being shown to be right because we have nobody at all to slip into that role and parker will not play a youngster as I think Slav might have done, or at least bring him on wiith 20 to go.
It's done now but I fear for us on sunday if that i what we did against charlton.
It is weird how some people now say we've got no chance of auto,because of the draw. Many games still to play and if Leeds sign no striker then even better.
Quote from: sunburywhite on January 23, 2020, 03:05:02 PM
God forbid what you will all be like next season if we get promoted and start getting slapped 6-0 by Liverpool
I would quite happily settle now for defeat at Wembley and another year in a division where any team can beat the other team as there are no fancy money swilling, money laundering tycoon
Or perhaps you might like the Khans to seel out to Isabel dos Santos (check her out) then we could buy all the best players in the world
I have checked her out and she isn't a bad looker, and is alleged to be the richest woman in Africa.
Sounds good to me, and would certainly let her buy me a pint if she insisted.
Funny, I was a little surprised by a fair number of fans venting their frustration at the final whistle. I thought CAFC coould easily of nicked a win so settled for the point. What a contrast to all those games in the past when we silently trudged out of some far flung place after another away defeat. For some reason, Swansea away in the 80s (?) sticks with me following relegation after a gutless or clueless performance. Life was far simpler back then.
I didn't see 'hysterical'. But I did see a lot of disappointment, myself included. Playing the injury card is easy to do. BUT, every team has injuries, and from what I believe was said about the Charlton game, Charlton also had many key players out and was fielding what someone called a League One or Two squad.
I'm sorry, but FFC surely had the players and talent necessary to secure three points. It almost appeared FFC playing for a draw? This was a game that easily should have resulted in three points. I would say a disappointing result. Not hysterical, but disappointing. And something not surprising, as for the course of this season "inconsistency". has been FFC's middle name.
I think Parker's comments after the match were a perfect reflection on how I felt:
Quote"I have sat in in this seat after matches this year where we have had a lot of control and we have still come away with a defeat because someone has hit us on the break.
"I think we were really solid and that's a big positive.
full press conference: http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2020/january/22/scott-parker-press conference-charltonThat part stuck with me because I've felt that after multiple matches this season. Those matches hurt more than not scoring, or winning, when we should have. Still have a sour taste from Brentford and Reading for example. The missed scoring chances were one thing, but Christie's last second deflection for the corner was pivotal to me as Williams would've surely scored the winner.
You know what I'm guilty. It's just the disappointment I feel when we lose. I sulk, I get grumpy, I'm pessimistic... all of which are opposite to my natural state. Fulham just gets to me that way, but I love the club, everyone in it and all the fans. I need to learn to give it 24 hours after a result until I post, when I tend to have reverted back to my 'everything's great, isn't life a blast' mindset.
COYW
Quote from: joef on January 23, 2020, 07:40:46 PM
You know what I'm guilty. It's just the disappointment I feel when we lose. I sulk, I get grumpy, I'm pessimistic... all of which are opposite to my natural state. Fulham just gets to me that way, but I love the club, everyone in it and all the fans. I need to learn to give it 24 hours after a result until I post, when I tend to have reverted back to my 'everything's great, isn't life a blast' mindset.
COYW
That's a fair assessment of yourself. I try to do the same, but at the same time I've also made a rule that I do not post in the evening. My head isn't as clear and I'm usually distracted. Have done okay so far, but could be a lot better :) .
Quote from: Matt10 on January 23, 2020, 07:48:04 PM
Quote from: joef on January 23, 2020, 07:40:46 PM
You know what I'm guilty. It's just the disappointment I feel when we lose. I sulk, I get grumpy, I'm pessimistic... all of which are opposite to my natural state. Fulham just gets to me that way, but I love the club, everyone in it and all the fans. I need to learn to give it 24 hours after a result until I post, when I tend to have reverted back to my 'everything's great, isn't life a blast' mindset.
COYW
That's a fair assessment of yourself. I try to do the same, but at the same time I've also made a rule that I do not post in the evening. My head isn't as clear and I'm usually distracted. Have done okay so far, but could be a lot better :) .
This is a sound but of advice that I am going to adopt 👍🏻
Quote from: joef on January 23, 2020, 07:40:46 PM
You know what I'm guilty. It's just the disappointment I feel when we lose. I sulk, I get grumpy, I'm pessimistic... all of which are opposite to my natural state. Fulham just gets to me that way, but I love the club, everyone in it and all the fans. I need to learn to give it 24 hours after a result until I post, when I tend to have reverted back to my 'everything's great, isn't life a blast' mindset.
COYW
Amen. I'm the same!
My disappointment was with the subs, yes TC wasnt haven't a good game but is far more likely to bend one in from the edge of the area or play a defence-splitting pass then stefo who job it is to kick people and win the ball we had the ball we just weren't using it well, fine take TC off but bring on DLT or move BDR and bring on Stansfied a goal scorer not leave him until the 87th minute. Parker just seemed to be happy with a 0-0 and not trying to win the game
My disappointment was with the subs, yes TC wasnt haven't a good game but is far more likely to bend one in from the edge of the area or play a defence-splitting pass then stefo who job it is to kick people and win the ball we had the ball we just weren't using it well, fine take TC off but bring on DLT or move BDR and bring on Stansfied a goal scorer not leave him until the 87th minute. Parker just seemed to be happy with a 0-0 and not trying to win the game
100 % agree with this post
It wasn't the draw but the fact that we didn't gamble and go for the win.
Quote from: FFC1987 on January 23, 2020, 10:28:46 AM
I could understand you suggesting people are hysterical if calling for Parkers head was mentioned, sacking TK or saying it was a disaster, doom and gloom scenario, but the overwhelmin responses, including my own said it was a poor performance and a missed opportunity which, I'm not sure how else you can describe it. Charlton hadn't kept a clean sheet in 11 games, (I think) and are 20th in form table so it's not unreasonable with this team to think 3 points was what should be expected. Oh well, just need to rely on other teams slipping up again to keep us within distance as slipping back after playing Charlton is hardly a good thing for a team hunting for automatic.
.. and we have already witnessed such miracles, check out the last 6 game form of the current incumbents of the two 'automatics'
In our last 8 competitive matches we have won 5 drawn 2 and lost 1.
So I deduce with my high intellect mental arithmetic brain that based on the results of those matches, we may and could reach 84 points, that's another 35 points added on to the current 49. So that's around 2 points a game on average, which sounds about right, so is 84 points enough.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 24, 2020, 02:37:39 AM
In our last 8 competitive matches we have won 5 drawn 2 and lost 1.
So I deduce with my high intellect mental arithmetic brain that based on the results of those matches, we may and could reach 84 points, that's another 35 points added on to the current 49. So that's around 2 points a game on average, which sounds about right, so is 84 points enough.
As for playoffs, 75 points are probably enough 7 wins, 5 draws and 5 losses. If we cannot get that, we aren't going to win the playoffs.
As for Automatic Promotion, 84 points is not enough if two teams achieve:
WBA 9 wins, 5 draws and 4 losses (85 points)
Leeds 10 wins, 3 draws and 5 losses (85 points)
Fulham 11 wins, 4 draws and 2 losses (85 points)
Forest 11 wins, 4 draws and 3 losses (85 points)
Brentford 11 wins, 4 draws and 3 losses (84 points & maintain goal difference lead)
For automatic promotion, we really need 12 wins in our last 17 games, which is not easy as teams will "Park the Bus" once we stop conceding. Let's say we win our next six games with clean sheets, from then on every team will be aiming for a point and we need to get 6 wins from the last 11 games (that include Preston, Bristol, Brentford, Leeds, Forest, Cardiff, WBA, Wednesday & plus 3 lower ranked teams). Stoke and Hull were a model for how teams have played us in order to win that seems fixed, but Charlton's method could be how teams play us in order to get a point or how Leeds/WBA stop us getting 3 points.
All we can do , as the manager says, is focus on our own games, one game at a time as the saying goes, and try to get good result from each one.
If we lose a game, or even 'only' get a point where a win was expected -usually a home game, then we don't give up, or go into a shell, but resolve to do better in the next game, which is what Scott and the team have been doing.
There will inevitably be ups and downs along the way, for all the teams involved in this very closely fought promotion contest, but its probably who copes best with the downs who will win out in the end.
We are on a run and although we should have beaten charlton it didnt happen and they were very hard to break down. It is what it is. Can we still win automatic promotion ? Of course we can.
Quote from: colinwhite on January 24, 2020, 06:02:32 AM
We are on a run and although we should have beaten charlton it didnt happen and they were very hard to break down. It is what it is. Can we still win automatic promotion ? Of course we can.
Agree - we still have a great chance for automatic, just need to stay focused, and hope we don't get too many more injuries - but we have a decent squad now.
