I see the usual practice of seeking scapegoats raises it's head again, particularly after our team not performing to the expected level. So Tom and Ivan are the latest targets. I suppose the star critics could just walk into the team and perform at the same level game after game.
Top post. Well done......
Where have people abused Ivan? Probably our most gifted player and recently been putting in a shift aswell
Quote from: @jolslover on January 23, 2020, 08:23:55 PM
Where have people abused Ivan? Probably our most gifted player and recently been putting in a shift aswell
Try ALG01 in the Tom Cairney thread
All opinions, I know..l
Spotted ALG's comment about Cav which I felt was harsh. Poor bloke so isolated and worked his socks off. Showed lots of strength to hold and retain possession like Mitro but it just isn't his natural role.
"For unto whomsoever much [talent] is given, of him shall much be required" in Luke 12:48. I don't think players are scapegoats (ie. falsely accused for the reason our attack is getting worse), but the team has become too dependent on the prodigious talents of Mitrovic, Cairney, and Cavaleiro for creativity so any slip off is a disaster.
I find it hard to understand why Fulham and our players and our manager currently in third place, get so much criticism from its own supporters. Everything every error, miss or goals conceded are dissected so harshly, I find it hard to comprehend. It is not as though we have a Trophy Cabinet the size of Real Madrid's. That I could understand as the fans are use to success.
But the last time they opened up Fulhams Trophy Cabinet a pile of Tumbleweed blew out.
I see I am the the scapegoat.
What you are doing, in any other walk of life is trying to isolate me and bully me with your nasty digs above. I am bery unimpressed and think the mods should step in and reprimand you all! An overly poisenous poster that has had a season ticket for around 60 years been to virtually every big game including all the relegations, what a horrible way to be treated by so called supporters.
I have expressed my honest view and do not expect to be discussed elsewhere.
PS Ivan is massively underachieving. he works hard, true, I cannot fault him for that. he seems to be a very nice man that is committed to the cause, i cannot fault him, but he is wasteful with his talent and has precious little end product.
I don't agree with your opinion but i'll respect it. Some really poorly thought out accusations above and to be honest, the original post was a pointless attempt to cause argument anyway.
Quote from: ALG01 on January 23, 2020, 10:57:09 PM
I see I am the the scapegoat.
What you are doing, in any other walk of life is trying to isolate me and bully me with your nasty digs above. I am bery unimpressed and think the mods should step in and reprimand you all! An overly poisenous poster that has had a season ticket for around 60 years been to virtually every big game including all the relegations, what a horrible way to be treated by so called supporters.
I have expressed my honest view and do not expect to be discussed elsewhere.
PS Ivan is massively underachieving. he works hard, true, I cannot fault him for that. he seems to be a very nice man that is committed to the cause, i cannot fault him, but he is wasteful with his talent and has precious little end product.
Do not let this get you down, you are not a scapegoat, maybe an escaped goat, but you are entitled to your opinion, and it should be respected even if some of us may not agree.
As for bullies, I happen to be a BullyFinder General, so no worries, we are all Fulham supporters and have different views and will all cheer together when Fulham score.
Remember the Tom Cairney goal v Villa at Wembley when we all cheered together for the next 24 hours and longer, happy days and more happy days are to come, so don't let people get to you, stiff upper lip, remember Pen and Sword.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 23, 2020, 10:52:09 PM
I find it hard to understand why Fulham and our players and our manager currently in third place, get so much criticism from its own supporters. Everything every error, miss or goals conceded are dissected so harshly, I find it hard to comprehend. It is not as though we have a Trophy Cabinet the size of Real Madrid's. That I could understand as the fans are use to success.
But the last time they opened up Fulhams Trophy Cabinet a pile of Tumbleweed blew out.
Last season, we were around the 16th-18th most expensive team and people were disappointed we came 19th. This season, we are the most expensive team by miles and miles, and we are 3rd-5th. Zita perfectly valid to be equally disappointed.
Last season, we got FFP money for players only 2 weeks before the season (from SK) and 5 weeks before the season (from EPL) and normally bought players over the 2 weeks after getting money (which is understandable), this season we had 12 months to prepare for this season and still don't seem ready. Last season, we got 3 points total home/away against the bottom six teams, this season we got 2 points home/away against Charlton. Our team last year would have won this league, even with TFM at right back.
What is worst is this season the league is very weak and next season it will be very strong. After next season, our TV Budget is the same as QPR and others, and will be significantly less than Huddersfield.
What Parker has done to last years squad is open heart surgery and we need to recover soon to win promotion otherwise we will have to sell all the players as their wages are too high and perform open heart surgery again with much less money.
Apologies, wasn't trying to target you ALG I was just picking up on the Cav discussion and adding my thoughts on his performance.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 23, 2020, 11:36:13 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 23, 2020, 10:52:09 PM
I find it hard to understand why Fulham and our players and our manager currently in third place, get so much criticism from its own supporters. Everything every error, miss or goals conceded are dissected so harshly, I find it hard to comprehend. It is not as though we have a Trophy Cabinet the size of Real Madrid's. That I could understand as the fans are use to success.
But the last time they opened up Fulhams Trophy Cabinet a pile of Tumbleweed blew out.
Last season, we were around the 16th-18th most expensive team and people were disappointed we came 19th. This season, we are the most expensive team by miles and miles, and we are 3rd-5th. Zita perfectly valid to be equally disappointed.
Last season, we got FFP money for players only 2 weeks before the season (from SK) and 5 weeks before the season (from EPL) and normally bought players over the 2 weeks after getting money (which is understandable), this season we had 12 months to prepare for this season and still don't seem ready. Last season, we got 3 points total home/away against the bottom six teams, this season we got 2 points home/away against Charlton. Our team last year would have won this league, even with TFM at right back.
What is worst is this season the league is very weak and next season it will be very strong. After next season, our TV Budget is the same as QPR and others, and will be significantly less than Huddersfield.
What Parker has done to last years squad is open heart surgery and we need to recover soon to win promotion otherwise we will have to sell all the players as their wages are too high and perform open heart surgery again with much less money.
Please do not despair, all is not lost.
You are dissecting this issue and Dissecting is now deemed to be a Public Order Offence, so please refrain.
As for amounts of money paid for players and the costs. I feel It is unwise to measure the capability of a team by how much is spent, otherwise you are going to beat yourself up with an obsession as to why we have spent more money than Two Bob Rovers but we are not top of the pile yet.
Forget that and concentrate on how much worth they are to the club with their on field displays, especially the key players and then work out their real value to the team, after all its only money, but it's flesh and blood that win matches, and hearts the size of a football ⚽️.
Quote from: Milo on January 24, 2020, 12:59:58 AM
Apologies, wasn't trying to target you ALG I was just picking up on the Cav discussion and adding my thoughts on his performance.
Milo,
I should have excluded you from my late night rant....
I understand your point of view and was perfectly happy with your response. I always lov properly discussing football with anyone even if we do not see eye to eye.
I am harsh where cav is concerned because he is clearly very talented indeed but it seems to me we do not see that used to best effect and I honestly feel he needs a few gamees on the bench a la knock to focus his mind.
If there's a bandwagon passing - I'm on it
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 23, 2020, 11:36:13 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 23, 2020, 10:52:09 PM
I find it hard to understand why Fulham and our players and our manager currently in third place, get so much criticism from its own supporters. Everything every error, miss or goals conceded are dissected so harshly, I find it hard to comprehend. It is not as though we have a Trophy Cabinet the size of Real Madrid's. That I could understand as the fans are use to success.
But the last time they opened up Fulhams Trophy Cabinet a pile of Tumbleweed blew out.
Last season, we were around the 16th-18th most expensive team and people were disappointed we came 19th. This season, we are the most expensive team by miles and miles, and we are 3rd-5th. Zita perfectly valid to be equally disappointed.
Last season, we got FFP money for players only 2 weeks before the season (from SK) and 5 weeks before the season (from EPL) and normally bought players over the 2 weeks after getting money (which is understandable), this season we had 12 months to prepare for this season and still don't seem ready. Last season, we got 3 points total home/away against the bottom six teams, this season we got 2 points home/away against Charlton. Our team last year would have won this league, even with TFM at right back.
What is worst is this season the league is very weak and next season it will be very strong. After next season, our TV Budget is the same as QPR and others, and will be significantly less than Huddersfield.
What Parker has done to last years squad is open heart surgery and we need to recover soon to win promotion otherwise we will have to sell all the players as their wages are too high and perform open heart surgery again with much less money.
Not the first time I have read about the league being so weak this year as if its a fact. Personally, I dont think so. The fact that everone can beat everyone is not a sign of weakness ,but strength. No easy matches.
As far as the economic arguments go ,money can get you players but not necessarily instant success.It takes time to build a team ,and because you have decent players doesnt mean your entitled to diddly- squat.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 23, 2020, 11:36:13 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 23, 2020, 10:52:09 PM
I find it hard to understand why Fulham and our players and our manager currently in third place, get so much criticism from its own supporters. Everything every error, miss or goals conceded are dissected so harshly, I find it hard to comprehend. It is not as though we have a Trophy Cabinet the size of Real Madrid's. That I could understand as the fans are use to success.
But the last time they opened up Fulhams Trophy Cabinet a pile of Tumbleweed blew out.
Last season, we were around the 16th-18th most expensive team and people were disappointed we came 19th. This season, we are the most expensive team by miles and miles, and we are 3rd-5th. Zita perfectly valid to be equally disappointed.
Last season, we got FFP money for players only 2 weeks before the season (from SK) and 5 weeks before the season (from EPL) and normally bought players over the 2 weeks after getting money (which is understandable), this season we had 12 months to prepare for this season and still don't seem ready. Last season, we got 3 points total home/away against the bottom six teams, this season we got 2 points home/away against Charlton. Our team last year would have won this league, even with TFM at right back.
What is worst is this season the league is very weak and next season it will be very strong. After next season, our TV Budget is the same as QPR and others, and will be significantly less than Huddersfield.
What Parker has done to last years squad is open heart surgery and we need to recover soon to win promotion otherwise we will have to sell all the players as their wages are too high and perform open heart surgery again with much less money.
I'm always sceptical about this as it is just an arbitrary transfer value on each player, apparently Kongolo is worth £10 million yet couldn't get in to Huddersfield's team.
Also depending on whose ratings you read stoke are either 2nd or 3rd and Huddersfield are in the top 5. It's a statistical analysis that means very little. Certainly it shouldn't be used as a metric of performance.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 23, 2020, 10:52:09 PM
I find it hard to understand why Fulham and our players and our manager currently in third place, get so much criticism from its own supporters. Everything every error, miss or goals conceded are dissected so harshly, I find it hard to comprehend. It is not as though we have a Trophy Cabinet the size of Real Madrid's. That I could understand as the fans are use to success.
But the last time they opened up Fulhams Trophy Cabinet a pile of Tumbleweed blew out.
.....together with a tattered copy of Tommy Trinder's joke book.
If a six year old kid coached Liverpool with the same squad they have next season, they will still cone third. If you have the best squad in the league coming third is poor performance. I don't blame Parker for the 30 goal conceeded he has a decent but not great backline, as for the 42 goals scored with Mitro contributing 18 that is underperformance they should be scoring at least 29 non Mitro goals with those players in 29 games.
Quote from: snarks on January 24, 2020, 12:20:20 PM
I'm always sceptical about this as it is just an arbitrary transfer value on each player, apparently Kongolo is worth £10 million yet couldn't get in to Huddersfield's team.
Also depending on whose ratings you read stoke are either 2nd or 3rd and Huddersfield are in the top 5. It's a statistical analysis that means very little. Certainly it shouldn't be used as a metric of performance.
Well there are two explanations for that.
One is that TRF's analysis is all wrong and there's little or no correlation between (a) players' values on Transfermarkt (or wherever) and (b) how good they are
The other explaination is that Stoke and Huddersfield are just terribly run clubs, and they've overpaid for players, they aren't motivating those players, the coach is setting them up wrong tactically, etc.
I'm strongly inclined to prefer the latter explanation
Cannot see what is wrong with complaining or even what is wrong with complaining about complaining.
People who follow football are an odd bunch. Some love one club and know little about the game at one extreme and at the other extreme there is someone who loves football but has that special feeling for one club. In older times the one club was most often local to you but that isn't true now. In older times there was little media to influence opinion and it was almost always down to pecking order e.g. if your team is so good how come they're in the second division etc.
Some people just criticise for the sake of it. Doesn't mean you have to read it or feel something about it. You have a brain more than capable of making up its own mind and perhaps it needs some exercise.
The problem as I see it, is that there is a big difference between criticising a players performance and calling them scapegoats.
When a large number of us were criticising Onomah's initial performances, for example, we are judging his performance based on what he does on the pitch. Now it is all opinions and whatnot, but when the majority of people believe he has had a bad game, that is based on what we have witnessed him do on the pitch, obviously.
When you call a player a scapegoat, you are inferring that everyone - who has their own brain and can think for themselves - are blaming a certain player when it is unwarranted and that they have actually been average or better. This to me is clearly nonsense, who does this?
When players are criticised, they are criticised because in the spectators' eyes, they have played pony. Not because they are looking for someone to blame.
Quote from: Statto on January 24, 2020, 12:42:19 PM
Quote from: snarks on January 24, 2020, 12:20:20 PM
I'm always sceptical about this as it is just an arbitrary transfer value on each player, apparently Kongolo is worth £10 million yet couldn't get in to Huddersfield's team.
Also depending on whose ratings you read stoke are either 2nd or 3rd and Huddersfield are in the top 5. It's a statistical analysis that means very little. Certainly it shouldn't be used as a metric of performance.
Well there are two explanations for that.
One is that TRF's analysis is all wrong and there's little or no correlation between (a) players' values on Transfermarkt (or wherever) and (b) how good they are
The other explaination is that Stoke and Huddersfield are just terribly run clubs, and they've overpaid for players, they aren't motivating those players, the coach is setting them up wrong tactically, etc.
I'm strongly inclined to prefer the latter explanation
As well you may, but then that supports the contention that it doesn't mean much. If they have overpaid for a player then that is not his value. It's the value that club puts on him, but not the one he's worth. TC is valued at 13.5 million on transfer market, yet we bought him for 3 million. So is he overvalued? Or undervalued? It's such an arbitrary figure.
I blame you for this thread Peabody 064.gif..... :Get Coat gif:
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 24, 2020, 12:34:35 PM
If a six year old kid coached Liverpool with the same squad they have next season, they will still cone third. If you have the best squad in the league coming third is poor performance. I don't blame Parker for the 30 goal conceeded he has a decent but not great backline, as for the 42 goals scored with Mitro contributing 18 that is underperformance they should be scoring at least 29 non Mitro goals with those players in 29 games.
Sorry but that couldnt be farther from the truth. Klopps team did nothing in their first 2years and the fans were split .Now he is vital. To think that anyone can coach that team because the players are so good is a joke,sorry.( Maybe it was meant as ajoke )
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 24, 2020, 12:34:35 PM
If a six year old kid coached Liverpool with the same squad they have next season, they will still cone third. If you have the best squad in the league coming third is poor performance. I don't blame Parker for the 30 goal conceeded he has a decent but not great backline, as for the 42 goals scored with Mitro contributing 18 that is underperformance they should be scoring at least 29 non Mitro goals with those players in 29 games.
I don't care who scores our goals. I would be just as happy if our back 4 scored 25 goals each or Mitro to score 100.
Quote from: SuffolkWhite on January 24, 2020, 03:35:52 PM
I blame you for this thread Peabody 064.gif..... :Get Coat gif:
And Senderos
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 23, 2020, 10:52:09 PM
I find it hard to understand why Fulham and our players and our manager currently in third place, get so much criticism from its own supporters. Everything every error, miss or goals conceded are dissected so harshly, I find it hard to comprehend. It is not as though we have a Trophy Cabinet the size of Real Madrid's. That I could understand as the fans are use to success.
But the last time they opened up Fulhams Trophy Cabinet a pile of Tumbleweed blew out.
:plus one:
Quote from: ALG01 on January 23, 2020, 10:57:09 PM
I see I am the the scapegoat.
What you are doing, in any other walk of life is trying to isolate me and bully me with your nasty digs above. I am bery unimpressed and think the mods should step in and reprimand you all! An overly poisenous poster that has had a season ticket for around 60 years been to virtually every big game including all the relegations, what a horrible way to be treated by so called supporters.
I have expressed my honest view and do not expect to be discussed elsewhere.
PS Ivan is massively underachieving. he works hard, true, I cannot fault him for that. he seems to be a very nice man that is committed to the cause, i cannot fault him, but he is wasteful with his talent and has precious little end product.
Don't feel sorry for yourself. You are, truth be told, somewhat of a negative person. That's fine. You often make excellent points but seldom in a positive vein. For a sainted ( :022:) man like Peabody to take note, is, in itself, an indictment. Please continue you comments as you see fit but please don't be negative towards others.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 23, 2020, 10:52:09 PM
I find it hard to understand why Fulham and our players and our manager currently in third place, get so much criticism from its own supporters. Everything every error, miss or goals conceded are dissected so harshly, I find it hard to comprehend. It is not as though we have a Trophy Cabinet the size of Real Madrid's. That I could understand as the fans are use to success.
But the last time they opened up Fulhams Trophy Cabinet a pile of Tumbleweed blew out.
:plus one: 082.gif
I'm not sure this should need to be said as I thought it would be obvious, but Fulham in the EPL, are a small fish in a big pond whereas in the championship, we're the 'Real Madrid' of the league. A serious contender. So of course expectations will be higher in championship than EPL. I could understand your point if we were being overly ambitious in our expectations if we were in Prem but come on. We're considered the top 4 of the prem in the championship.
Quote from: YankeeJim on January 24, 2020, 07:41:26 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on January 23, 2020, 10:57:09 PM
I see I am the the scapegoat.
What you are doing, in any other walk of life is trying to isolate me and bully me with your nasty digs above. I am bery unimpressed and think the mods should step in and reprimand you all! An overly poisenous poster that has had a season ticket for around 60 years been to virtually every big game including all the relegations, what a horrible way to be treated by so called supporters.
I have expressed my honest view and do not expect to be discussed elsewhere.
PS Ivan is massively underachieving. he works hard, true, I cannot fault him for that. he seems to be a very nice man that is committed to the cause, i cannot fault him, but he is wasteful with his talent and has precious little end product.
Don't feel sorry for yourself. You are, truth be told, somewhat of a negative person. That's fine. You often make excellent points but seldom in a positive vein. For a sainted ( :022:) man like Peabody to take note, is, in itself, an indictment. Please continue you comments as you see fit but please don't be negative towards others.
Thanbk you for your response but what was being said started to get unpleasant for no other reason there is a very nasty few keyboard warriors on here that think they can insult who they like rather than engage in a sensible discussion. They really are taking all the fun out of trying to discuss football properly and it was rich to have a go at me after all the hours, days and years I have supported the club with blind loyalty at every game. but on here I say what i see and unfortunately most people forget my massive optimistic nature and the players I big up when they do well especially the ones who turn things round from a poor start.
and I do not attempt to belittle or ridiule anyone as was begining to happen.
I am very positive, i am probabl;y one of the few that actually sees no reason with the right selection and right tactics and right comitment that we cannot get a result on sunday or at least give a brilliant account of ourselves.
What I usually write here is a frustration at underachievement, such as with Cav who clearerly is very talented but seems to be untouchable where the manager is concerned because he is not doing it at the moment in terms of end product. his work ethic is brilliant and he clearly wants to do well but he needs a period on the bench as Knock had. I never critisesd Knock at all, I thought he was genuinely being singled out unfairly but he has come back even better.
If you watch what I say more carefully, you will see I am very positive. However regarding the ownership and his son, that is different. we need professionnals running the club and having an amateur as director of football is genuinely holding back the progress we should have made. Their hearts are in the right place but MAF had the right idea and they should learn from that.
Take heart ALG.
I mostly find myself agreeing with your posts and also feel that Cav is not being best used.
Quote from: ALG01 on January 24, 2020, 11:06:06 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on January 24, 2020, 07:41:26 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on January 23, 2020, 10:57:09 PM
I see I am the the scapegoat.
What you are doing, in any other walk of life is trying to isolate me and bully me with your nasty digs above. I am bery unimpressed and think the mods should step in and reprimand you all! An overly poisenous poster that has had a season ticket for around 60 years been to virtually every big game including all the relegations, what a horrible way to be treated by so called supporters.
I have expressed my honest view and do not expect to be discussed elsewhere.
PS Ivan is massively underachieving. he works hard, true, I cannot fault him for that. he seems to be a very nice man that is committed to the cause, i cannot fault him, but he is wasteful with his talent and has precious little end product.
Don't feel sorry for yourself. You are, truth be told, somewhat of a negative person. That's fine. You often make excellent points but seldom in a positive vein. For a sainted ( :022:) man like Peabody to take note, is, in itself, an indictment. Please continue you comments as you see fit but please don't be negative towards others.
Thanbk you for your response but what was being said started to get unpleasant for no other reason there is a very nasty few keyboard warriors on here that think they can insult who they like rather than engage in a sensible discussion. They really are taking all the fun out of trying to discuss football properly and it was rich to have a go at me after all the hours, days and years I have supported the club with blind loyalty at every game. but on here I say what i see and unfortunately most people forget my massive optimistic nature and the players I big up when they do well especially the ones who turn things round from a poor start.
and I do not attempt to belittle or ridiule anyone as was begining to happen.
I am very positive, i am probabl;y one of the few that actually sees no reason with the right selection and right tactics and right comitment that we cannot get a result on sunday or at least give a brilliant account of ourselves.
What I usually write here is a frustration at underachievement, such as with Cav who clearerly is very talented but seems to be untouchable where the manager is concerned because he is not doing it at the moment in terms of end product. his work ethic is brilliant and he clearly wants to do well but he needs a period on the bench as Knock had. I never critisesd Knock at all, I thought he was genuinely being singled out unfairly but he has come back even better.
If you watch what I say more carefully, you will see I am very positive. However regarding the ownership and his son, that is different. we need professionnals running the club and having an amateur as director of football is genuinely holding back the progress we should have made. Their hearts are in the right place but MAF had the right idea and they should learn from that.
Yes, I agree, you are usually on the optimistic side of things. Which is why I was surprised to read your comments on Ivan, a player, who I greatly admire and feel he has just a bit of the early Louis Boa Morte about him, in that sometimes he doesn't know what he is going to do next, which I find very entertaining. As for the scapegoat comment, Week after week we have people saying this player is this and that player is that, or he shouldn't be etc etc. The only player to escape this is Michael Hector but give it time.
:plus one:
Quote from: alfie on January 24, 2020, 07:07:13 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 23, 2020, 10:52:09 PM
I find it hard to understand why Fulham and our players and our manager currently in third place, get so much criticism from its own supporters. Everything every error, miss or goals conceded are dissected so harshly, I find it hard to comprehend. It is not as though we have a Trophy Cabinet the size of Real Madrid's. That I could understand as the fans are use to success.
But the last time they opened up Fulhams Trophy Cabinet a pile of Tumbleweed blew out.
:plus one:
Quote from: Peabody on January 25, 2020, 10:05:10 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on January 24, 2020, 11:06:06 PM
Quote from: YankeeJim on January 24, 2020, 07:41:26 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on January 23, 2020, 10:57:09 PM
I see I am the the scapegoat.
What you are doing, in any other walk of life is trying to isolate me and bully me with your nasty digs above. I am bery unimpressed and think the mods should step in and reprimand you all! An overly poisenous poster that has had a season ticket for around 60 years been to virtually every big game including all the relegations, what a horrible way to be treated by so called supporters.
I have expressed my honest view and do not expect to be discussed elsewhere.
PS Ivan is massively underachieving. he works hard, true, I cannot fault him for that. he seems to be a very nice man that is committed to the cause, i cannot fault him, but he is wasteful with his talent and has precious little end product.
Don't feel sorry for yourself. You are, truth be told, somewhat of a negative person. That's fine. You often make excellent points but seldom in a positive vein. For a sainted ( :022:) man like Peabody to take note, is, in itself, an indictment. Please continue you comments as you see fit but please don't be negative towards others.
Thanbk you for your response but what was being said started to get unpleasant for no other reason there is a very nasty few keyboard warriors on here that think they can insult who they like rather than engage in a sensible discussion. They really are taking all the fun out of trying to discuss football properly and it was rich to have a go at me after all the hours, days and years I have supported the club with blind loyalty at every game. but on here I say what i see and unfortunately most people forget my massive optimistic nature and the players I big up when they do well especially the ones who turn things round from a poor start.
and I do not attempt to belittle or ridiule anyone as was begining to happen.
I am very positive, i am probabl;y one of the few that actually sees no reason with the right selection and right tactics and right comitment that we cannot get a result on sunday or at least give a brilliant account of ourselves.
What I usually write here is a frustration at underachievement, such as with Cav who clearerly is very talented but seems to be untouchable where the manager is concerned because he is not doing it at the moment in terms of end product. his work ethic is brilliant and he clearly wants to do well but he needs a period on the bench as Knock had. I never critisesd Knock at all, I thought he was genuinely being singled out unfairly but he has come back even better.
If you watch what I say more carefully, you will see I am very positive. However regarding the ownership and his son, that is different. we need professionnals running the club and having an amateur as director of football is genuinely holding back the progress we should have made. Their hearts are in the right place but MAF had the right idea and they should learn from that.
Yes, I agree, you are usually on the optimistic side of things. Which is why I was surprised to read your comments on Ivan, a player, who I greatly admire and feel he has just a bit of the early Louis Boa Morte about him, in that sometimes he doesn't know what he is going to do next, which I find very entertaining. As for the scapegoat comment, Week after week we have people saying this player is this and that player is that, or he shouldn't be etc etc. The only player to escape this is Michael Hector but give it time.
Love the hector comment 064.gif
My view is that we have talented players in the squad/team but we are not playing to their strengths.
That lies at the door of the coach imo.
Not individual players being singled out for poor performancs in particular games.
Coyw!
We have given this young manager a chance to learn his trade and if he LEARNS to be a good manager at Fulham, but we miss out on promotion twice, then no parachute payments means Fulham won't be able to afford the players he wants and we won't be able to afford Scott Parker's wages (onc he is highly rated) so he'll move on to a bigger club.
Do we want to be a club where people learn football, before those people move on to the premier league? With the most expensive squad, I think we had more chance of being promoted with some average with lots of experience that isn't improving as a coach (like Chris Hughton). We need to get promoted this season or next season or we could be down here for a very very long time.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 28, 2020, 02:00:14 AM
We have given this young manager a chance to learn his trade and if he LEARNS to be a good manager at Fulham, but we miss out on promotion twice, then no parachute payments means Fulham won't be able to afford the players he wants and we won't be able to afford Scott Parker's wages (onc he is highly rated) so he'll move on to a bigger club.
Do we want to be a club where people learn football, before those people move on to the premier league? With the most expensive squad, I think we had more chance of being promoted with some average with lots of experience that isn't improving as a coach (like Chris Hughton). We need to get promoted this season or next season or we could be down here for a very very long time.
So are you saying the SP will NOT learn his trade and so we should get shot of him, or we should let him continue learning his trade with the expectation that he will get us promoted by season 2021/22 for sure?
If the former, then why not give him until the end of this season and then, if he's not improving, get one of those "average Joe's with with lots of experience that isn't improving as a coach" in to get us promoted next season? If the latter, however, then at what point next season do we deem that Scotty isn't learning enough and try to get shot of him and get one of those "average Joe's with lots of experience that isn't improving as a coach" in to guarantee that promotion?
Lastly, can you actually guarantee promotion, either this year or next, with one of those "average Joe's with with lots of experience that isn't improving as a coach" either way?
Quote from: Logicalman on January 28, 2020, 05:22:45 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 28, 2020, 02:00:14 AM
We have given this young manager a chance to learn his trade and if he LEARNS to be a good manager at Fulham, but we miss out on promotion twice, then no parachute payments means Fulham won't be able to afford the players he wants and we won't be able to afford Scott Parker's wages (onc he is highly rated) so he'll move on to a bigger club.
Do we want to be a club where people learn football, before those people move on to the premier league? With the most expensive squad, I think we had more chance of being promoted with some average with lots of experience that isn't improving as a coach (like Chris Hughton). We need to get promoted this season or next season or we could be down here for a very very long time.
So are you saying the SP will NOT learn his trade and so we should get shot of him, or we should let him continue learning his trade with the expectation that he will get us promoted by season 2021/22 for sure?
If the former, then why not give him until the end of this season and then, if he's not improving, get one of those "average Joe's with with lots of experience that isn't improving as a coach" in to get us promoted next season? If the latter, however, then at what point next season do we deem that Scotty isn't learning enough and try to get shot of him and get one of those "average Joe's with lots of experience that isn't improving as a coach" in to guarantee that promotion?
Lastly, can you actually guarantee promotion, either this year or next, with one of those "average Joe's with with lots of experience that isn't improving as a coach" either way?
Parker is learning his trade, but we need a proven coach.
In 2019/20, he has the most expensive team and is coming fourth.
In 2020/21, he will have the third most expensive team and my guess is we will make the playoffs.
In 2021/22, we will have the seventh most expensive and making the playoffs will prove he is a good.
In 2022/23, we will have around the 10th most expensive team, Parker will move on to a better club.
Yes, I think there are a lot of coaches that could take the most expensive team by miles and miles to the top of the table. In a few seasons, we will be looking for a coach that can take the 10th most expensive squad to the premier league.
Quote from: Peabody on January 23, 2020, 07:38:07 PM
I see the usual practice of seeking scapegoats raises it's head again, particularly after our team not performing to the expected level. So Tom and Ivan are the latest targets. I suppose the star critics could just walk into the team and perform at the same level game after game.
Posts like this make me laugh.
We have under performed - there are reasons for this. Attributing as to whom and why that isn't is 'scapegoating'. If you don't find an issue or discuss it, you'll never resolve it.
As for the whole 'you couldn't do it thing'. Great argument. I doubt some of the players could re-wire an RCD, but they'd probably be a bit upset if their house was plunged into darkness after some shoddy electrician work too.
A forum should be a place we can discuss all things Fulham - the good and the bad. What is working, celebrating it. What is not working, and discussing how to improve it.
Quote from: FFC1987 on January 23, 2020, 11:06:10 PM
I don't agree with your opinion but i'll respect it. Some really poorly thought out accusations above and to be honest, the original post was a pointless attempt to cause argument anyway.
Ding ding ding
Quote from: Dr Quinzel on January 29, 2020, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: Peabody on January 23, 2020, 07:38:07 PM
I see the usual practice of seeking scapegoats raises it's head again, particularly after our team not performing to the expected level. So Tom and Ivan are the latest targets. I suppose the star critics could just walk into the team and perform at the same level game after game.
Posts like this make me laugh.
We have under performed - there are reasons for this. Attributing as to whom and why that isn't is 'scapegoating'. If you don't find an issue or discuss it, you'll never resolve it.
As for the whole 'you couldn't do it thing'. Great argument. I doubt some of the players could re-wire an RCD, but they'd probably be a bit upset if their house was plunged into darkness after some shoddy electrician work too.
A forum should be a place we can discuss all things Fulham - the good and the bad. What is working, celebrating it. What is not working, and discussing how to improve it.
Well, I am glad I made you laugh, perhaps I should resurrect the NFR Joke posts (don't worry, I won't). This was not written to cause an argument but it was written to show that some, if not all, get fed up with the continued carping and moaning about our team and if you look back, you will find, every member of our team has, in turn, be called useless and doesn't deserve the shirt. OK, they are opinions but quite a few think that their opinion is fact.
(Just a bit of Quote cleaning Sir!)
Stop. Time to think about Saturday with fresh optimism and 11 players all of whom are going to do their best and we for our part must get behind each and every one them with our full support.
Forget all about last Sunday , The Huddersfield game is more important to us.
Where else but on a messageboard would you expect Fulham fans to vent their feelings of what they have seen. It's cathartic for many.
Anyway, as Filham has said - onto Saturday.
Quote from: Dragoman on January 24, 2020, 12:25:04 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on January 23, 2020, 10:52:09 PM
I find it hard to understand why Fulham and our players and our manager currently in third place, get so much criticism from its own supporters. Everything every error, miss or goals conceded are dissected so harshly, I find it hard to comprehend. It is not as though we have a Trophy Cabinet the size of Real Madrid's. That I could understand as the fans are use to success.
But the last time they opened up Fulhams Trophy Cabinet a pile of Tumbleweed blew out.
.....together with a tattered copy of Tommy Trinder's joke book.
Blimey that joke book must have been very thin.
