In Jay Stansfield we have the hottest property in youth football, without a doubt the Premier League elite are already keeping tabs on him,
So with the game already well and truly lost why were we not bringing Stansfield on instead of either Odoi or Cairney ?
What an opportunity today to give a young lad 20 minutes in the spotlight, what harm could it have possibly done ?
We've already lost Roberts, Dembele and Elliot to bigger clubs in the last few years Parker had a chance today to make Stansfield feel welcome and firmly part of the first team squad,
I couldn't give a damn about The F.A Cup and I'm pleased that were out of it, but I am upset that Parker messed up a golden opportunity to give a young lad his moment today.
Yeah great...
Put him on with time to shine only to put him in the shop window - or should I say Spuds window!
For me the game to play him was Wednesday. But he gave him about 3 minutes, when he should have had 20, as Charlton were there for the taking.
Massively frustrating.
What if hes not up to it and cant cope. The kids seventeen with no experience and you want him brought on in a game where hes barely going to touch the ball and with little chance to succeed . That would have been truely irresponsible.On the bench was a great experience . his time will come if he is good enough.
Take your point about today Colin but Wednesday night was different - it was calling for something different upfront and 20 minutes would have been great for the lad.
Quote from: colinwhite on January 26, 2020, 09:10:46 PM
What if hes not up to it and cant cope. The kids seventeen with no experience and you want him brought on in a game where hes barely going to touch the ball and with little chance to succeed . That would have been truely irresponsible.On the bench was a great experience . his time will come if he is good enough.
if that's the case then he shouldn't be on our bench.
We never lose, we either win or learn.
Quote from: colinwhite on January 26, 2020, 09:10:46 PM
What if hes not up to it and cant cope. The kids seventeen with no experience and you want him brought on in a game where hes barely going to touch the ball and with little chance to succeed . That would have been truely irresponsible.On the bench was a great experience . his time will come if he is good enough.
Absolutely spot on. If it wasn't for injuries to Mitro, Knockaert, Kamara and Kebano he wouldn't be anywhere near the bench. Nonetheless a great experience for him but we really shouldn't be pinning our hopes on a kid that has just turned 17.
Quote from: Whitestone on January 26, 2020, 10:26:36 PM
Quote from: colinwhite on January 26, 2020, 09:10:46 PM
What if hes not up to it and cant cope. The kids seventeen with no experience and you want him brought on in a game where hes barely going to touch the ball and with little chance to succeed . That would have been truely irresponsible.On the bench was a great experience . his time will come if he is good enough.
Totally agree.
Absolutely spot on. If it wasn't for injuries to Mitro, Knockaert, Kamara and Kebano he wouldn't be anywhere near the bench. Nonetheless a great experience for him but we really shouldn't be pinning our hopes on a kid that has just turned 17.
He was on the bench because hes the best weve got ,with all the injuries. Doesnt make it right to ply him.
Quote from: colinwhite on January 27, 2020, 05:34:54 AM
He was on the bench because hes the best weve got ,with all the injuries. Doesnt make it right to ply him.
So why put him on the bench ?
The game was long gone after 70 minutes, a real bonus no pressure situation for both Stansfield and Fulham Football Club, there won't be another situation like that for the rest of the season,
The youngsters at Liverpool all get given opportunities it wouldn't have hurt to have given Stansfield 20 minutes in a game that was now a dead rubber,
We had plenty to gain and absolutely nothing to lose.
Quote from: colinwhite on January 27, 2020, 05:34:54 AM
He was on the bench because hes the best weve got ,with all the injuries. Doesnt make it right to ply him.
It is good to put him on the bench like Matt Riley, but if he hasn't signed for next season, we play him and he plays well, the ManCity will offer him a contract too.
Quote from: fulhamben on January 26, 2020, 09:33:07 PM
Quote from: colinwhite on January 26, 2020, 09:10:46 PM
What if hes not up to it and cant cope. The kids seventeen with no experience and you want him brought on in a game where hes barely going to touch the ball and with little chance to succeed . That would have been truely irresponsible.On the bench was a great experience . his time will come if he is good enough.
if that's the case then he shouldn't be on our bench.
I agree, I can never understand how game after game on the bench provides better experience than sitting in the stand.
Quote from: filham on January 27, 2020, 06:00:09 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on January 26, 2020, 09:33:07 PM
Quote from: colinwhite on January 26, 2020, 09:10:46 PM
What if hes not up to it and cant cope. The kids seventeen with no experience and you want him brought on in a game where hes barely going to touch the ball and with little chance to succeed . That would have been truely irresponsible.On the bench was a great experience . his time will come if he is good enough.
if that's the case then he shouldn't be on our bench.
I agree, I can never understand how game after game on the bench provides better experience than sitting in the stand.
its probably worse isn't it. Sit them all game just to see a defender come on instead of you
He s a young player and Parker is working with his development,which in this case is more important than our needs on the pitch,since it was all over. Actually he had everything to lose and not much to gain against City. Its aquestion of respect for him ,his fellow players and the opposition. We dont know his status and most people commenting on here clearly dont understand how this process works either. Parker was protecting the boy.
Quote from: colinwhite on January 27, 2020, 06:15:49 PM
He s a young player and Parker is working with his development,which in this case is more important than our needs on the pitch,since it was all over. Actually he had everything to lose and not much to gain against City. Its aquestion of respect for him ,his fellow players and the opposition. We dont know his status and most people commenting on here clearly dont understand how this process works either. Parker was protecting the boy.
How is putting him on the bench and leaving him on the bench protecting him ? Protecting him from what ?
It was our last meaningless game of the season , every game remaining now is mega important, Sunday for 20 minutes was the chance for Jay, that chance has now gone.
... his development needs to be managed and protected but why did he get 10 minutes against Villa and three against Charlton - I just don't understand the strategy - we needed an injection against Charlton- but not so much against Villa in the cup . Just scratching my head trying to understand
You cant look for a strategy when you dont know the status of the player or what has been going on behind the scenes. As far as the protection issue is concerned its complicated . Dont expect him to play any more this season. As soon as the other players come back he wont be on the bench. These things take time and at the moment he has a positive experience of first team football,and hes been on the bench for a few games and got a taste.
Quote from: Riversider on January 26, 2020, 09:00:56 PM
In Jay Stansfield we have the hottest property in youth football, without a doubt the Premier League elite are already keeping tabs on him,
So with the game already well and truly lost why were we not bringing Stansfield on instead of either Odoi or Cairney ?
What an opportunity today to give a young lad 20 minutes in the spotlight, what harm could it have possibly done ?
We've already lost Roberts, Dembele and Elliot to bigger clubs in the last few years Parker had a chance today to make Stansfield feel welcome and firmly part of the first team squad,
I couldn't give a damn about The F.A Cup and I'm pleased that were out of it, but I am upset that Parker messed up a golden opportunity to give a young lad his moment today.
:plus one:
totally agree, apart from the fa cup dismissal
Quote from: BestOfBrede on January 26, 2020, 09:03:32 PM
Yeah great...
Put him on with time to shine only to put him in the shop window - or should I say Spuds window!
That was my first thought as well.
Far from make him a safer option for the future, I get the feeling it could easily have backfired in the end. Just an opinion, doesn't mean it's right!
Quote from: Logicalman on January 27, 2020, 09:08:04 PM
Quote from: BestOfBrede on January 26, 2020, 09:03:32 PM
Yeah great...
Put him on with time to shine only to put him in the shop window - or should I say Spuds window!
That was my first thought as well.
Far from make him a safer option for the future, I get the feeling it could easily have backfired in the end. Just an opinion, doesn't mean it's right!
FFS , do you honest believe that the likes of Spurs, Liverpool, Celtic etc etc only watch first team football ? Of course they don't, they are all well aware of Jay Stansfield already, him playing for 20 minutes against City in The F.A CUP wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.
Quote from: fulhamben on January 27, 2020, 06:02:36 PM
Quote from: filham on January 27, 2020, 06:00:09 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on January 26, 2020, 09:33:07 PM
Quote from: colinwhite on January 26, 2020, 09:10:46 PM
What if hes not up to it and cant cope. The kids seventeen with no experience and you want him brought on in a game where hes barely going to touch the ball and with little chance to succeed . That would have been truely irresponsible.On the bench was a great experience . his time will come if he is good enough.
if that's the case then he shouldn't be on our bench.
I agree, I can never understand how game after game on the bench provides better experience than sitting in the stand.
its probably worse isn't it. Sit them all game just to see a defender come on instead of you
Personally think there is a big difference? You get to go through team talk, warm up, get closer to the first team players, and the whole energy is surely way different to a PL2 because the stakes are higher. Not withstanding the game being against City, as he will have got to sit next to people he probably idolizes (Aguero, De Bruyne). These are big moments when you are 17, and cannot be experienced in the stands. You'd hope he gets a taste for it and works that much harder to be more involved.
But agree he should have got more minutes once the game was gone, no harm in it.
Quote from: Riversider on January 27, 2020, 11:18:40 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on January 27, 2020, 09:08:04 PM
Quote from: BestOfBrede on January 26, 2020, 09:03:32 PM
Yeah great...
Put him on with time to shine only to put him in the shop window - or should I say Spuds window!
That was my first thought as well.
Far from make him a safer option for the future, I get the feeling it could easily have backfired in the end. Just an opinion, doesn't mean it's right!
FFS , do you honest believe that the likes of Spurs, Liverpool, Celtic etc etc only watch first team football ? Of course they don't, they are all well aware of Jay Stansfield already, him playing for 20 minutes against City in The F.A CUP wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.
Rodak was a top keeper at Rottenham, ahead of Fabri in training and even though he was a lot younger than Fabri his market value was still less, a few championship games rose his value significantly. Frankly, if he wasn't under contract before playing in the championship for us, I doubt we would be able to afford him now based on his recent performances. In fact the Brentford business model is based on signing players and putting them on show to other clubs. Player development is great, but Fulham should be clear which players we are developing, that is those like S.Sess that are on long contracts with us.
Quote from: Riversider on January 27, 2020, 11:18:40 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on January 27, 2020, 09:08:04 PM
Quote from: BestOfBrede on January 26, 2020, 09:03:32 PM
Yeah great...
Put him on with time to shine only to put him in the shop window - or should I say Spuds window!
Riversider . We cant judge the har m bit at all as we dont work with the playerand make judgements on whats best for his development. So we have to trust the club,not just Parker but academy staf etc as they will all have been involved.
That was my first thought as well.
Far from make him a safer option for the future, I get the feeling it could easily have backfired in the end. Just an opinion, doesn't mean it's right!
FFS , do you honest believe that the likes of Spurs, Liverpool, Celtic etc etc only watch first team football ? Of course they don't, they are all well aware of Jay Stansfield already, him playing for 20 minutes against City in The F.A CUP wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.
Since there is a debate going on here then clearly there must be other discussions going on all over the football league about what to do with young talent. Nobody disputes that.
What can be disputed, however, is the logical rationale of playing the lad for three minutes, ten minutes and not at all in certain games. Most of us were very confident that RS was being handled smartly by FFC until things went downhill fast. It is a game of risk and I don't believe there are any straightforward answers.
Quote from: toshes mate on January 28, 2020, 08:04:29 AM
Since there is a debate going on here then clearly there must be other discussions going on all over the football league about what to do with young talent. Nobody disputes that.
What can be disputed, however, is the logical rationale of playing the lad for three minutes, ten minutes and not at all in certain games. Most of us were very confident that RS was being handled smartly by FFC until things went downhill fast. It is a game of risk and I don't believe there are any straightforward answers.
One thing you are dead right on is player development is very hard, and there are a lot of factors. Game time helps some players and focused training helps. I think Ryan Sessegnon needs to bulk up a little to be stronger defensively, and that maybe more important than game time. Obviously, RS cannot lift weights on Fridays if he is playing on Saturday, so there is a trade off. Traditional, we know is the focus of spanish clubs is techinical skills, Germany is devoping physically and English getting playing with the men as soon as possible. I think The English may have something to learn from others.
Interesting to read what Tony Cascarino had to say about our tactics on Sunday in The Times:
Fulham pay price for high-risk tactics
Playing out from the back is a dangerous tactic for any side. Championship teams trying to play out from the back against Manchester City is just daft. Doing it at the Etihad when you are down to ten men is plain crazy. Three of the four goals Fulham conceded yesterday resulted from players making terrible mistakes while trying to play the ball around their own penalty area. Madness. Fulham got what they deserved.
Spot on in my view.
Quote from: Riversider on January 27, 2020, 09:32:31 AM
The youngsters at Liverpool all get given opportunities it wouldn't have hurt to have given Stansfield 20 minutes in a game that was now a dead rubber,
We had plenty to gain and absolutely nothing to lose.
I still can't believe people try and compare our squad to that of Liverpool's.
A young player learns by being in and around the first team set up- training, learning from the pros around them, not necessarily just having 10 mins here and there.
Why chuck a kid into a game where we're being battered, he's unlikely to touch the ball and not exactly going to have any influence on the game? Non sensical to me.
Quote from: MikeW on January 28, 2020, 09:06:44 AM
Interesting to read what Tony Cascarino had to say about our tactics on Sunday in The Times:
Fulham pay price for high-risk tactics
Playing out from the back is a dangerous tactic for any side. Championship teams trying to play out from the back against Manchester City is just daft. Doing it at the Etihad when you are down to ten men is plain crazy. Three of the four goals Fulham conceded yesterday resulted from players making terrible mistakes while trying to play the ball around their own penalty area. Madness. Fulham got what they deserved.
Spot on in my view.
I don't normally agree with Cascarino, but on this occasion he is absolutely right, but you can't blame any of the players for those awful tactics, the blame should all be with Parker, tactics and formations and team selection is all his domain,
As Tony rightly points out Parker got it horribly wrong, hate to say it but we are third in the league despite Parker not because of Parker
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 28, 2020, 08:43:51 AM
Traditional, we know is the focus of spanish clubs is techinical skills, Germany is devoping physically and English getting playing with the men as soon as possible. I think The English may have something to learn from others.
I think it is a much deeper and more profound issue than culture. We know that the academic year birthdates favour children born September to December for physical and, in some senses, mental development. RS was exceptional since he fell into the less favoured group. Age of onset of puberty must also impact on development. As I said before it has always been a bone of contention as to how you handle talent be it physically or mentally based. Importantly the academic year cut off favours girls just the same as it favours boys. Be interesting to know how academies deal with these things given schools generally just accept it as something that doesn't have a straightforward answer.
Quote from: Riversider on January 28, 2020, 09:34:46 AM
Quote from: MikeW on January 28, 2020, 09:06:44 AM
Interesting to read what Tony Cascarino had to say about our tactics on Sunday in The Times:
Fulham pay price for high-risk tactics
Playing out from the back is a dangerous tactic for any side. Championship teams trying to play out from the back against Manchester City is just daft. Doing it at the Etihad when you are down to ten men is plain crazy. Three of the four goals Fulham conceded yesterday resulted from players making terrible mistakes while trying to play the ball around their own penalty area. Madness. Fulham got what they deserved.
Spot on in my view.
I don't normally agree with Cascarino, but on this occasion he is absolutely right, but you can't blame any of the players for those awful tactics, the blame should all be with Parker, tactics and formations and team selection is all his domain,
As Tony rightly points out Parker got it horribly wrong, hate to say it but we are third in the league despite Parker not because of Parker
With all due respect if you are implying that our position of 3rd in the league is not down to Parker, why is it down to Parker that we lost, he is either responsible for both scenarios or none of them.
Quote from: toshes mate on January 28, 2020, 10:28:09 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on January 28, 2020, 08:43:51 AM
Traditional, we know is the focus of spanish clubs is techinical skills, Germany is devoping physically and English getting playing with the men as soon as possible. I think The English may have something to learn from others.
I think it is a much deeper and more profound issue than culture. We know that the academic year birthdates favour children born September to December for physical and, in some senses, mental development. RS was exceptional since he fell into the less favoured group. Age of onset of puberty must also impact on development. As I said before it has always been a bone of contention as to how you handle talent be it physically or mentally based. Importantly the academic year cut off favours girls just the same as it favours boys. Be interesting to know how academies deal with these things given schools generally just accept it as something that doesn't have a straightforward answer.
Agree that this is a complex topic and cant be generalised about. Its individual based development and this can vary enormously.More often than not the kids that make an early breakthrough anre not necessarily the ones who make it all the way. It can be ahuge advantage to be a late developer ,and that doesnt always equate to which month of the year you are born.
Quote from: alfie on January 28, 2020, 10:38:25 AM
Quote from: Riversider on January 28, 2020, 09:34:46 AM
Quote from: MikeW on January 28, 2020, 09:06:44 AM
Interesting to read what Tony Cascarino had to say about our tactics on Sunday in The Times:
Fulham pay price for high-risk tactics
Playing out from the back is a dangerous tactic for any side. Championship teams trying to play out from the back against Manchester City is just daft. Doing it at the Etihad when you are down to ten men is plain crazy. Three of the four goals Fulham conceded yesterday resulted from players making terrible mistakes while trying to play the ball around their own penalty area. Madness. Fulham got what they deserved.
Spot on in my view.
I don't normally agree with Cascarino, but on this occasion he is absolutely right, but you can't blame any of the players for those awful tactics, the blame should all be with Parker, tactics and formations and team selection is all his domain,
As Tony rightly points out Parker got it horribly wrong, hate to say it but we are third in the league despite Parker not because of Parker
With all due respect if you are implying that our position of 3rd in the league is not down to Parker, why is it down to Parker that we lost, he is either responsible for both scenarios or none of them.
Tactics and general game play have been awful on so many occasions , but weve won games at times because of individual brilliance,
We have the biggest budget in this division by a million miles (wages, loan fees, transfers) and yet weve still struggled in large parts against the likes of Barnsley, QPR, Luton, Charlton etc all clubs that havent got a pot to pi** in,
Are you trying to imply that Parker has done amazingly well to get us to third ?
Would the following have got this squad to tjird, Jokanovic ? Bilic ? Bielsa ? Warnock ?
Third is the bare minimum for this club, if we dont finish in the top 6 he should be sacked in May and will probably never manage again
Quote from: Riversider on January 28, 2020, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: alfie on January 28, 2020, 10:38:25 AM
Quote from: Riversider on January 28, 2020, 09:34:46 AM
Quote from: MikeW on January 28, 2020, 09:06:44 AM
Interesting to read what Tony Cascarino had to say about our tactics on Sunday in The Times:
Fulham pay price for high-risk tactics
Playing out from the back is a dangerous tactic for any side. Championship teams trying to play out from the back against Manchester City is just daft. Doing it at the Etihad when you are down to ten men is plain crazy. Three of the four goals Fulham conceded yesterday resulted from players making terrible mistakes while trying to play the ball around their own penalty area. Madness. Fulham got what they deserved.
Spot on in my view.
I don't normally agree with Cascarino, but on this occasion he is absolutely right, but you can't blame any of the players for those awful tactics, the blame should all be with Parker, tactics and formations and team selection is all his domain,
As Tony rightly points out Parker got it horribly wrong, hate to say it but we are third in the league despite Parker not because of Parker
With all due respect if you are implying that our position of 3rd in the league is not down to Parker, why is it down to Parker that we lost, he is either responsible for both scenarios or none of them.
Tactics and general game play have been awful on so many occasions , but weve won games at times because of individual brilliance,
We have the biggest budget in this division by a million miles (wages, loan fees, transfers) and yet weve still struggled in large parts against the likes of Barnsley, QPR, Luton, Charlton etc all clubs that havent got a pot to pi** in,
Are you trying to imply that Parker has done amazingly well to get us to third ?
Would the following have got this squad to tjird, Jokanovic ? Bilic ? Bielsa ? Warnock ?
Third is the bare minimum for this club, if we dont finish in the top 6 he should be sacked in May and will probably never manage again
So we have won games because of individual brilliance, equally we have lost games because of individual mistakes.
Appreciate our discussion
Quote from: Skatzoffc on January 26, 2020, 09:09:40 PM
For me the game to play him was Wednesday. But he gave him about 3 minutes, when he should have had 20, as Charlton were there for the taking.
Massively frustrating.
+1
The lad needs his confidence to be boosted - playing him against MC might have done just the opposite.
The point remains though Riversider . You cant put it down to the manager when we lose,and down to individual brilliance which has nothing to do with Parker when we win. Its always a mixture of the two. I think Parker is learning. It could have been better. so far but it also could have been worse. There would be no guarantee with any of the mentioned managers, and the question of budget is actually not really relevant because if man City reasoned like that Guardiola would have benn ditched by now. You have to look at the whole picture.
I share the frustration at times but I dont think its all down to Parker . In all hes done resaonably well and if had he had had more luck with injuries who knows where we would be now.For me the most important thing is that the players seem to be completely behind him.
Quote from: colinwhite on January 28, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
The point remains though Riversider . You cant put it down to the manager when we lose,and down to individual brilliance which has nothing to do with Parker when we win. Its always a mixture of the two. I think Parker is learning. It could have been better. so far but it also could have been worse. There would be no guarantee with any of the mentioned managers, and the question of budget is actually not really relevant because if man City reasoned like that Guardiola would have benn ditched by now. You have to look at the whole picture.
I share the frustration at times but I dont think its all down to Parker . In all hes done resaonably well and if had he had had more luck with injuries who knows where we would be now.For me the most important thing is that the players seem to be completely behind him.
Agree with a lot of what you say but two factors must be taken into consideration,
Firstly this is the weakest Championship in many a long year,
Secondly we have one of the highest budgets in European football, we are the Manchester City of The Championship and yet we constantly struggle against teams that have nothing,
The Khan family have done all that can be asked of them to Provide Parker with all the tools he needs to get this club promoted, we (without a shadow of doubt) have better players than Leeds, WBA, Forest and Brentford but do we have a better coach ? Thats the 64 million dollar question.
Quote from: alfie on January 28, 2020, 10:38:25 AM
With all due respect if you are implying that our position of 3rd in the league is not down to Parker, why is it down to Parker that we lost, he is either responsible for both scenarios or none of them.
Our position of 3rd is absolutely down to Parker.
With a decent manager we'd be 1st.
So if we do get up to first you will then think SP is a "decent manager " ? Just asking !
For the record I think parker is ok ,nothing more ,nothing less.
Quote from: colinwhite on January 29, 2020, 10:45:08 AM
So if we do get up to first you will then think SP is a "decent manager " ? Just asking !
For the record I think parker is ok ,nothing more ,nothing less.
100% yes.
Or even if we finished a convincing 2nd.
But despite the gap to 2nd closing, we're quite far from that. We're 4th, just as close to 8th as we are to the top 2nd, and the bookies still have quite long odds on us going up (about 3-1) given we're in the middle of a particularly easy run of games at the moment.
And for the record, as I've said many times, I don't have any serious personal problems with Parker. My view is simply that (a) his performance so far has been below reasonable expectations and (b) the jury is still out on whether he has the inherent ability to develop into a good manager in the long-term.
Slavisa didn't change the Fulham tactics of possession and playing out from the back at City last season in the Prem, and we conceded inside five minutes - I was there.
The City manager praised Fulham for trying to play football, and not parking the bus, on that occasion too.
I actually think we made more of game of it last Saturday than on that occasion.
Quote from: RaySmith on January 29, 2020, 11:40:13 AM
Slavisa didn't change the Fulham tactics of possession and playing out from the back at City last season in the Prem, and we conceded inside five minutes - I was there.
The City manager praised Fulham for trying to play football, and not parking the bus, on that occasion too.
I actually think we made more of game of it last Saturday than on that occasion.
:54:
Quote from: colinwhite on January 28, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
The point remains though Riversider . You cant put it down to the manager when we lose,and down to individual brilliance which has nothing to do with Parker when we win. Its always a mixture of the two. I think Parker is learning. It could have been better. so far but it also could have been worse. There would be no guarantee with any of the mentioned managers, and the question of budget is actually not really relevant because if man City reasoned like that Guardiola would have benn ditched by now. You have to look at the whole picture.
I share the frustration at times but I dont think its all down to Parker . In all hes done resaonably well and if had he had had more luck with injuries who knows where we would be now.For me the most important thing is that the players seem to be completely behind him.
Concur with you except for the last sentence. Whilst I agree that trying to argue that another manager/head coach would have done better/worse with the same squad is ultimately futile because you cannot play the season out again, I don''t consider injuries to change things any more than tactical nous influences progress by taking us one step forward especially when it takes us two or more steps backward because it is misguided. Parker has to expect injuries and have a better plan to overcome them. Likewise if his methods are not aiding consistency in performance (rather than results which are rattling aound at about 1.65 PPG) then he must accept responsibility for failing to achieve what is ultimately his role as the man in charge - improvement in all areas of play and players.
Jokanovic achieved through innovation and having players understand his footballing brain or be sent to the fringes until they paid attention. Compare that to Parker's obsession with very mediocre performances from individuals being hyped up for no good reason. He even managed to do it after the game on Sunday and for no very good reason. Compare his attitude post game to what Bilic had to say last night for example.
Quote from: RaySmith on January 29, 2020, 11:40:13 AM
The City manager praised Fulham for trying to play football, and not parking the bus, on that occasion too.
Of course he praised us. He won easily! Managers always do that when they don't see us as threatening at all. I find it condescending.
That game was a walk in the park for them as was the game on Sunday.
Quote from: Statto on January 29, 2020, 11:15:58 AM
Quote from: colinwhite on January 29, 2020, 10:45:08 AM
So if we do get up to first you will then think SP is a "decent manager " ? Just asking !
For the record I think parker is ok ,nothing more ,nothing less.
100% yes.
Or even if we finished a convincing 2nd.
But despite the gap to 2nd closing, we're quite far from that. We're 4th, just as close to 8th as we are to the top 2nd, and the bookies still have quite long odds on us going up (about 3-1) given we're in the middle of a particularly easy run of games at the moment.
And for the record, as I've said many times, I don't have any serious personal problems with Parker. My view is simply that (a) his performance so far has been below reasonable expectations and (b) the jury is still out on whether he has the inherent ability to develop into a good manager in the long-term.
Everyone knows Parker is inexperienced and that inexperience is costing us points. The problem is by the time he has the experience, we will be the underdogs in terms of budget and players. It's very hard to get out of this division without high earning players, but we need parachute payments or a massive sale do that we have both this season. If Parker hangs around long enough, he'll be praised for getting us to the playoffs with no budget has and he'll leave for a better team.
Without TV money, our turnover is around £20m per year with maximium losses of £13m, so our 2021/22 budget for wages and amortisation is about £33m (which is less than we spent in 2000/01 at CPI).
The last time we got promoted into the top tier on the budget FFP requires without parchaute payment or major player sale was in 1958/59.
Quote from: fulhamross on January 29, 2020, 11:54:32 AM
Quote from: RaySmith on January 29, 2020, 11:40:13 AM
The City manager praised Fulham for trying to play football, and not parking the bus, on that occasion too.
Of course he praised us. He won easily! Managers always do that when they don't see us as threatening at all. I find it condescending.
That game was a walk in the park for them as was the game on Sunday.
I was just making the point that he praised us on both occasions - he obviously likes tams to gp there and play like that, thus being easy to beat.
I would prefer us to park the bus, but did we have the personnel to do this?
Whatever, i was mainly making the point that Slavisa played in exactly the same, foolhardy some would say, attacking way, that Parker is now being slaughtered for.
Quote from: RaySmith on January 29, 2020, 12:13:12 PM
Quote from: fulhamross on January 29, 2020, 11:54:32 AM
Quote from: RaySmith on January 29, 2020, 11:40:13 AM
The City manager praised Fulham for trying to play football, and not parking the bus, on that occasion too.
Of course he praised us. He won easily! Managers always do that when they don't see us as threatening at all. I find it condescending.
That game was a walk in the park for them as was the game on Sunday.
I was just making the point that he praised us on both occasions - he obviously likes tams to gp there and play like that, thus being easy to beat.
I would prefer us to park the bus, but did we have the personnel to do this?
Whatever, i was mainly making the point that Slavisa played in exactly the same, foolhardy some would say, attacking way, that Parker is now being slaughtered for.
yes and Slav got sacked for it.
We are pretty much in agreement Statto
Quote from: toshes mate on January 29, 2020, 11:53:54 AM
Quote from: colinwhite on January 28, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
The point remains though Riversider . You cant put it down to the manager when we lose,and down to individual brilliance which has nothing to do with Parker when we win. Its always a mixture of the two. I think Parker is learning. It could have been better. so far but it also could have been worse. There would be no guarantee with any of the mentioned managers, and the question of budget is actually not really relevant because if man City reasoned like that Guardiola would have benn ditched by now. You have to look at the whole picture.
I share the frustration at times but I dont think its all down to Parker . In all hes done resaonably well and if had he had had more luck with injuries who knows where we would be now.For me the most important thing is that the players seem to be completely behind him.
Concur with you except for the last sentence. Whilst I agree that trying to argue that another manager/head coach would have done better/worse with the same squad is ultimately futile because you cannot play the season out again, I don''t consider injuries to change things any more than tactical nous influences progress by taking us one step forward especially when it takes us two or more steps backward because it is misguided. Parker has to expect injuries and have a better plan to overcome them. Likewise if his methods are not aiding consistency in performance (rather than results which are rattling aound at about 1.65 PPG) then he must accept responsibility for failing to achieve what is ultimately his role as the man in charge - improvement in all areas of play and players.
Jokanovic achieved through innovation and having players understand his footballing brain or be sent to the fringes until they paid attention. Compare that to Parker's obsession with very mediocre performances from individuals being hyped up for no good reason. He even managed to do it after the game on Sunday and for no very good reason. Compare his attitude post game to what Bilic had to say last night for example.
ok then we are pretty much on the same page, but my last point is crucial and that is that he has the players with him. Havent seen the Billic quote but I ll take your word for it.
Quote from: fulhamben on January 29, 2020, 01:39:27 PM
Quote from: RaySmith on January 29, 2020, 12:13:12 PM
Quote from: fulhamross on January 29, 2020, 11:54:32 AM
Quote from: RaySmith on January 29, 2020, 11:40:13 AM
The City manager praised Fulham for trying to play football, and not parking the bus, on that occasion too.
Of course he praised us. He won easily! Managers always do that when they don't see us as threatening at all. I find it condescending.
That game was a walk in the park for them as was the game on Sunday.
I was just making the point that he praised us on both occasions - he obviously likes tams to gp there and play like that, thus being easy to beat.
I would prefer us to park the bus, but did we have the personnel to do this?
Whatever, i was mainly making the point that Slavisa played in exactly the same, foolhardy some would say, attacking way, that Parker is now being slaughtered for.
yes and Slav got sacked for it.
I thought the Huddersfield away game was the crucial one, where we just didn't turn up - a game we were expected to get something from, unlike at City.
Neither Slavisa nor Parker would be sacked for not getting a result at City i shouldn't think.
Quote from: colinwhite on January 26, 2020, 09:10:46 PM
What if hes not up to it and cant cope. The kids seventeen with no experience and you want him brought on in a game where hes barely going to touch the ball and with little chance to succeed . That would have been truely irresponsible.On the bench was a great experience . his time will come if he is good enough.
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