at least 11 points adrift - now it's 3 points with 13 games and 39 points to play for....to release Parker now doesn't make any sense....yes we're having a blip, every team does..... there's going to be a few twist and turns for every club before the season ends.....we all understand that Parker has been given this season to get us promotion, the Khan's will decide if he goes or stays at the seasons end......our job now is to get behind the team, and help them get over the line - we're all in this together
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on February 16, 2020, 08:21:21 AM
at least 11 points adrift - now it's 3 points with 13 games and 39 points to play for....to release Parker now doesn't make any sense....yes we're having a blip, every team does..... there's going to be a few twist and turns for every club before the season ends.....we all understand that Parker has been given this season to get us promotion, the Khan's will decide if he goes or stays at the seasons end......our job now is to get behind the team, and help them get over the line - we're all in this together
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049:gif 049:gif 049:gif ALWAYS BELIEVING 049:gif 049:gif 049:gif
Its 4-points. As at now, if we get 3 more points than Leeds we will still be behind them.
On your overall point. It is very difficult for me to get behind Parker's team. Yesterday was another blip in a blipping difficult season to watch.
We are third and I don't enjoy watching us play. I think I may need a break for my own sanity.
At the end of the day this team isn't fulfilling it's potential despite our league position. That is down to the manager and the tactics he employs. With a team like ours and especially the forward line and midfield at our disposal we should be 10 points clear at the top. Not to mention the boring football we have been playing of late.
I don't buy into this "we should be 10 points clear by now" because it's frankly absurd and has little basis in reality. How often have we seen this in the Championship?
Results wise overall we are disappointing but not too far off. I do however believe that we should be playing much better, because there have been very few games this season that I can even say that it was a good performance over 90 minutes (have not had a chance to watch yesterday's game yet, but it feels a fairly safe bet that we did not perform as we could have expected by now). We looked a better team overall in the first few weeks than we look now in my opinion, and that is disheartening since it feels kind of like Parker did have a plan that he then abandoned in search of quick fixes in various places. This is not too dissimilar to the trap that Jokanovic found himself in when the pressure started piling up in the Premiership and his answers were to change a lot of things every week in desperate search of something that would keep us up. The main difference being of course that Jokanovic and the team were in real trouble, and he knew it.
For every rather good game we seem to have a quite a few games in which our faith is completely determined by a few moments of great individual play by some of our stars, or the lack of such brilliance. I was neither overwhelmed or underwhelmed with the appointment of Parker, and was merely hoping for him to show us signs of being fit for purpose. Unfortunately we are still looking for those signs, which in itself is a bad sign. We have a squad that is at least better than that of most opponents and as such if we would match them tactically and play as a team, we should play better than most other teams most weeks. I am really not convinced that we are, despite the results. I started to really dare to hope for promotion the last few weeks before this, but it is getting harder to feel any kind of optimism now.
With all that said, just as I try to not let the positive results cloud my judgement, I try to avoid reacting too much to disastrous results as well (probably helped that I had no chance of watching the game yesterday). I am not one for sacking managers too early, and I wanted to give Parker the full season. I stand by that, since that was the gamble that the Khan's took, and I have very little faith that any replacements found by the Khan's now would make a positive difference. I still think our best bet is that Parker will suddenly get it together, be it by an epiphany, luck or skills (or more likely a combination). In any case, too early to give up on a season in which we actually still have a good chance of promotion.
Even in that period, we are not, and never have, played like a top 2 team, either in terms of the points we're averaging or the way we're playing. The gap has closed purely because we've been playing like a top 6 team and they've been playing like a bottom 6 team. There's still nothing to suggest we'll keep pace if they return to playing remotely well (and if they don't, Brentford or Forest will)
Quote from: FFCFOREVER on February 16, 2020, 10:12:24 AM
At the end of the day this team isn't fulfilling it's potential despite our league position. That is down to the manager and the tactics he employs. With a team like ours and especially the forward line and midfield at our disposal we should be 10 points clear at the top. Not to mention the boring football we have been playing of late.
for me it's not even about league position, I'd still want Parker gone even if we were 30 points clear at the top due to the dire football we play. I wonder if the same people who are defending Parker now are some of the same people who always used to proclaim that they would never want Warnock here due to his style of football
Ben you surely wouldnt want Warnock ?
Releasing Parker isn't going to help our play for the final games, and releasing Parker isn't going to get us promotion....we currently have to stick with what we've got , and get behind the team...... make's no sense to replace Parker now.....that should be decided by the Khans at the end of the season...... time's aren't desperate we're third.....this is the championship everyone can beat everyone
I didn't post much yesterday as I was too emotional. Looking back on yesterday I think that was one of the more embarrassing performances I have seen from a Fulham team over the last 50+ years. Yes, of course I have witnessed even worse football but, given the quality of this squad, that was up there with the worst.
We hoisted the white flag and meekly surrendered. Failed to win enough second ball, didn't offer enough movement off the ball, careless passes going astray, nobody (except AK) busting a gut to get forward. It smacked of a lazy, over confident team that lacked the guts or the nouse to battle back after going behind.
Do I blame Parker? Only partially, a lot of this one lies firmly at the feet of the players, including every senior one out there. However I have to agree that too many of our performances are not an enjoyable watch. I'd be more inclined to forgive that if we were firmly ensconced in the top two but we aren't.
Do I think we should sack him now? No, sadly I think the Khans must give him the season and anyway there should be a better choice of replacements available for them to talk to in the summer. Until then we just have to get behind the team even though it isn't easy at times.
Quote from: colinwhite on February 16, 2020, 11:13:31 AM
Ben you surely wouldnt want Warnock ?
id have Laurie Sanchez over Parker. But why not Warnock, plays less crap football than Parker and is more effective at it. Route one would be infinitely more exciting than the crap Parker serves up. Warnock used to fine players for passing back into their own half.
Quote from: Statto on February 16, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Even in that period, we are not, and never have, played like a top 2 team, either in terms of the points we're averaging or the way we're playing. The gap has closed purely because we've been playing like a top 6 team and they've been playing like a bottom 6 team. There's still nothing to suggest we'll keep pace if they return to playing remotely well (and if they don't, Brentford or Forest will)
To your point, since XMas, neither have the top two played like a top 2 team. So where's the difference?
Quote from: fulhamben on February 16, 2020, 11:53:49 AM
Quote from: colinwhite on February 16, 2020, 11:13:31 AM
Ben you surely wouldnt want Warnock ?
id have Laurie Sanchez over Parker. But why not Warnock, plays less crap football than Parker and is more effective at it. Route one would be infinitely more exciting than the crap Parker serves up. Warnock used to fine players for passing back into their own half.
Sorry but now you are letting your emotions rule your judgement. Sanchez, Warnock? You must be joking. You have complained more loudly than most (with some justification) that we are not easy to watch, do you think a Warnock team would be an improvement on the eye? No, if Parker is to go we need a serious, long term upgrade.
Quote from: fulhamben on February 16, 2020, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: FFCFOREVER on February 16, 2020, 10:12:24 AM
At the end of the day this team isn't fulfilling it's potential despite our league position. That is down to the manager and the tactics he employs. With a team like ours and especially the forward line and midfield at our disposal we should be 10 points clear at the top. Not to mention the boring football we have been playing of late.
for me it's not even about league position, I'd still want Parker gone even if we were 30 points clear at the top due to the dire football we play. I wonder if the same people who are defending Parker now are some of the same people who always used to proclaim that they would never want Warnock here due to his style of football
I understand what you are saying there, though I believe most on here would agree that one of our (more recent) successful managers has been Roy, and the style of play between he and Warnock is like chalk and cheese. What that tells me is that it's not all down to one particular style of play over another, but whether that style of play suits the players a team has and whether they can be successful with it.
Parkers style is not for everyone, neither is Warnocks, so do we say we forego success for style, or style for success? Because it seems to me we don't appear to achieve both, and in some cases neither. Slav's style was generally favourable to most, and it brought us EFL success, but it wasn't suited to the Prem. Perhaps we are missing that style
with success is different looking in the EFL than it is in the Prem?
Quote from: Logicalman on February 16, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
Quote from: Statto on February 16, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Even in that period, we are not, and never have, played like a top 2 team, either in terms of the points we're averaging or the way we're playing. The gap has closed purely because we've been playing like a top 6 team and they've been playing like a bottom 6 team. There's still nothing to suggest we'll keep pace if they return to playing remotely well (and if they don't, Brentford or Forest will)
To your point, since XMas, neither have the top two played like a top 2 team. So where's the difference?
They played like top 2 teams from August to December.
Quote from: Statto on February 16, 2020, 02:16:36 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on February 16, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
Quote from: Statto on February 16, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Even in that period, we are not, and never have, played like a top 2 team, either in terms of the points we're averaging or the way we're playing. The gap has closed purely because we've been playing like a top 6 team and they've been playing like a bottom 6 team. There's still nothing to suggest we'll keep pace if they return to playing remotely well (and if they don't, Brentford or Forest will)
To your point, since XMas, neither have the top two played like a top 2 team. So where's the difference?
They played like top 2 teams from August to December.
But for all their dominance in that period of 5 months, they sit just 5 points ahead of the chasing pack over the last 6 weeks, so as I said, where's the difference? It seems that the only time to be strong in the Championship is in the latter half of the season, look at our run to promotion last time. Again though, even with the most successful runs, the grand points total at the end, the move to the Prem too many teams barely survive the first season, so what is that magic potion of success?
When we couldn't get a run of results together, the top two, were building a points lead knowing, at some point, the wheels might come off and they had something to fall back on. It was unreasonable for us to expect the wheels wouldn't come off for us, even after we witnessed Slav achieve a, once in a lifetime form, so bad results coming were expected. The difference being, we couldn't afford the bad results whereas Leeds/Brom could. Having done a superb job closing the gap, I don't know about anyone else, but winnings was awesome, the way we played, not so much but, a wins a win. Now, we can't close off Barnsley at home and Millwall away (yes its a tough fixture but anyone watching the game could see they were there for the taking second half) and we now have a really hard run in just to make playoffs.
There's still hope sure, but realistically, for my own sanity, I've given up the pipe dream of second. We/Parker don't deserve it. The one thing I can say with this team currently is, its got little to no bottle and doesn't capitalise on it's chances/opportunities which is not only a characteristic not shared by a top 2 side, but also one that won't last 3 really tough games in the playoffs. We're not only poor under pressure but we simply aren't consistent enough to draw 3 decent performances out of the hat against what will be, very tough sides. Any of those top sides will see our weakness, press us hard and back the banks up and ultimately grind us down and just hope that we don't see some wonderful individual play/goals from players that are held back but ultimately capable of it.
Quote from: Logicalman on February 16, 2020, 02:21:15 PM
Quote from: Statto on February 16, 2020, 02:16:36 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on February 16, 2020, 02:05:49 PM
Quote from: Statto on February 16, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Even in that period, we are not, and never have, played like a top 2 team, either in terms of the points we're averaging or the way we're playing. The gap has closed purely because we've been playing like a top 6 team and they've been playing like a bottom 6 team. There's still nothing to suggest we'll keep pace if they return to playing remotely well (and if they don't, Brentford or Forest will)
To your point, since XMas, neither have the top two played like a top 2 team. So where's the difference?
They played like top 2 teams from August to December.
But for all their dominance in that period of 5 months, they sit just 5 points ahead of the chasing pack over the last 6 weeks, so as I said, where's the difference? It seems that the only time to be strong in the Championship is in the latter half of the season, look at our run to promotion last time. Again though, even with the most successful runs, the grand points total at the end, the move to the Prem too many teams barely survive the first season, so what is that magic potion of success?
Well the main difference, which I've now stated 3 times, is that they've shown they can play like a top 2 side for a sustained period. We haven't, which is why I'm highly sceptical we'll suddenly start to now. And it's why I disagree with the OP's suggestion that we're currently just experiencing a "blip". So the difference is that for Leeds and West Brom, yes those poor results were a blip, but not for us.
Quote from: Twig on February 16, 2020, 02:12:36 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on February 16, 2020, 11:53:49 AM
Quote from: colinwhite on February 16, 2020, 11:13:31 AM
Ben you surely wouldnt want Warnock ?
id have Laurie Sanchez over Parker. But why not Warnock, plays less crap football than Parker and is more effective at it. Route one would be infinitely more exciting than the crap Parker serves up. Warnock used to fine players for passing back into their own half.
Sorry but now you are letting your emotions rule your judgement. Sanchez, Warnock? You must be joking. You have complained more loudly than most (with some justification) that we are not easy to watch, do you think a Warnock team would be an improvement on the eye? No, if Parker is to go we need a serious, long term upgrade.
god no, I meant short term to try and salvage the season.
Madness to change now. Did WBA & Leeds panic & change manager when they saw their huge leads gradually whittle away?
Quote from: grandad on February 16, 2020, 05:28:34 PM
Madness to change now. Did WBA & Leeds panic & change manager when they saw their huge leads gradually whittle away?
West Brom sacked their manager when they were 4th this time last season.
This season, they haven't been lower than 2nd since September.
Quote from: Statto on February 16, 2020, 09:30:05 PM
Quote from: grandad on February 16, 2020, 05:28:34 PM
Madness to change now. Did WBA & Leeds panic & change manager when they saw their huge leads gradually whittle away?
West Brom sacked their manager when they were 4th this time last season.
This season, they haven't been lower than 2nd since September.
Madness would be not changing managers if this manager has no chance of promotion. Now we have lost to Barnsley to get promoted, we have to beat to both Brentford and Forest in either the league or the playoffs. So Madness would be not changing managers if we have no chance of beating Brentford and Forest. Do you think we can?
This season, Barnsley has beaten us twice playing the same way and so they clearly have the formula to beat us. And, every coach in the championship knows Barnsley have the formula and will copy the formula if they have better players to execute that plan than Barnsley. Brentford and Forest are two teams that could easily execute the Barnsley formula bettter than Barnsley. So unless Parker learns immediately, he has to go and I doubt he will as he hasn't learnt from the first Barnsley game.
All of us on here are old enough to know how easy it is to be ruffled into making mistakes. It's especially important in jobs where composure must be maintained at all costs since once composure is lost it is a hell of a lot more difficult to get it back. Parker's job is to ensure that players are not exposed to being ruffled and he isn't very good at it.
In terms of Parker In/Out, he's only getting sacked now if someone better is available. I don't mean marginally better either, I mean a Rafa type manager (that's not me saying we should get him, I'm saying that's the calibre of manager we would sack now on). Bringing in the new manager wouldn't be to win at all costs this year but to do a re-build for next year IF we don't go up. That would be sensible for me. Get a reasonably big name in who can charm the likes of Mitrovic (still a pipe dream that we'd keep him next year), Cairney, Hector and the like to stay and build a really strong team with a good manager for next year regardless of outcome.
To all saying it's unreasonable to sack, it isn't if you take this route in mind. I don't think, and it's purely speculative here, that he's the alpha in the changing room right now. We're seeing high levels of poor professionalism in performances, work ethic, petty squabbling during matches and just not a happy squad that's currently sitting third after a decent enough run. If I'm Khan and co. right now, I'm strongly dabbling in the managerial market for a new proven manager of high calibre and only pulling the trigger if this man won't hang on till end of season.
Lastly, for all my anti Parker sentiment, it's not really his fault. It's really down to the people who employed him having had no experience at any reasonable level and expecting him to walk one of the toughest leagues in the world. He's had his chance and his record of being inconsistent, for me, is pushing himself out of a job. Hopefully I'm wrong and we now go unbeaten with mainly wins through some of the toughest opposition we will face this year particularly away from home....it's hard to see however BUT, the only shining light is, this squad has the quality and strength to do it.....its just a shame it also possesses the ability to go on and draw/lose more games....
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on February 16, 2020, 08:21:21 AM
at least 11 points adrift - now it's 3 points with 13 games and 39 points to play for....to release Parker now doesn't make any sense....yes we're having a blip, every team does..... there's going to be a few twist and turns for every club before the season ends.....we all understand that Parker has been given this season to get us promotion, the Khan's will decide if he goes or stays at the seasons end......our job now is to get behind the team, and help them get over the line - we're all in this together
While I agree with the substance of your post, I would disagree with "blip". This team, this season, has been consistently inconsistent. No blip, just consistent mediocrity from a side which should be doing much much better. Even when having stretches of 3-4-5 games unbeaten, most games were 1 goal wins against really bad teams. Fortunate to hold on to one goal wins and draws that could easily have gone the other way, again, against weak opposition. Over the course of the season, I can only think of a couple of halves of football (not even complete games) where FFC looked like they were deserving of promotion and a shot in the Prem.
I would agree that a managerial change now, with only 13 games left, does not make a lot of sense. But many in this forum have suggested this be done and that this team of highly paid players has grossly underperformed under Parker, and can justify a change in leadership to bring this team into promotion. At the end of the day, it's up to the players, regardless of system employed, to get the job done. All the intangibles, such as heart, courage, work effort, determination, et al, have to see this team in winning form if they are to meet expectations.
Quote from: grandad on February 16, 2020, 05:28:34 PM
Madness to change now.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."
Madness not to change while promotion is still possible.
Quote from: ByTheRiver on February 17, 2020, 04:58:24 PM
Quote from: grandad on February 16, 2020, 05:28:34 PM
Madness to change now.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."
Madness not to change while promotion is still possible.
100%, I genuinely dont get this "its pointless changing now" argument. A good manager could still salvage promotion, Parker I'm 99.9% sure won't achieve it. Plus signs of disharmony amongst players was there to see Saturday.
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 17, 2020, 04:07:54 PM
In terms of Parker In/Out, he's only getting sacked now if someone better is available. I don't mean marginally better either, I mean a Rafa type manager (that's not me saying we should get him, I'm saying that's the calibre of manager we would sack now on). Bringing in the new manager wouldn't be to win at all costs this year but to do a re-build for next year IF we don't go up. That would be sensible for me. Get a reasonably big name in who can charm the likes of Mitrovic (still a pipe dream that we'd keep him next year), Cairney, Hector and the like to stay and build a really strong team with a good manager for next year regardless of outcome.
To all saying it's unreasonable to sack, it isn't if you take this route in mind. I don't think, and it's purely speculative here, that he's the alpha in the changing room right now. We're seeing high levels of poor professionalism in performances, work ethic, petty squabbling during matches and just not a happy squad that's currently sitting third after a decent enough run. If I'm Khan and co. right now, I'm strongly dabbling in the managerial market for a new proven manager of high calibre and only pulling the trigger if this man won't hang on till end of season.
Lastly, for all my anti Parker sentiment, it's not really his fault. It's really down to the people who employed him having had no experience at any reasonable level and expecting him to walk one of the toughest leagues in the world. He's had his chance and his record of being inconsistent, for me, is pushing himself out of a job. Hopefully I'm wrong and we now go unbeaten with mainly wins through some of the toughest opposition we will face this year particularly away from home....it's hard to see however BUT, the only shining light is, this squad has the quality and strength to do it.....its just a shame it also possesses the ability to go on and draw/lose more games....
Most sensible and balanced post, Fulham should take a good look at whose available. If Rafa is available it has to be Parker Out. If Chris Houghton is available, keep Parker but add Hugthon as an assistant coach for the rest of the season.
Parker needs help, a few more assistants especially someone to help with getting Knockaert back in form. Parker has done too bad with decent but limited defenders and defensive midfielders, but our attacking mids and wingers should be feared.
Quote from: FFC1987 on February 17, 2020, 04:07:54 PM
In terms of Parker In/Out, he's only getting sacked now if someone better is available. I don't mean marginally better either, I mean a Rafa type manager (that's not me saying we should get him, I'm saying that's the calibre of manager we would sack now on). Bringing in the new manager wouldn't be to win at all costs this year but to do a re-build for next year IF we don't go up. That would be sensible for me. Get a reasonably big name in who can charm the likes of Mitrovic (still a pipe dream that we'd keep him next year), Cairney, Hector and the like to stay and build a really strong team with a good manager for next year regardless of outcome.
To all saying it's unreasonable to sack, it isn't if you take this route in mind. I don't think, and it's purely speculative here, that he's the alpha in the changing room right now. We're seeing high levels of poor professionalism in performances, work ethic, petty squabbling during matches and just not a happy squad that's currently sitting third after a decent enough run. If I'm Khan and co. right now, I'm strongly dabbling in the managerial market for a new proven manager of high calibre and only pulling the trigger if this man won't hang on till end of season.
Lastly, for all my anti Parker sentiment, it's not really his fault. It's really down to the people who employed him having had no experience at any reasonable level and expecting him to walk one of the toughest leagues in the world. He's had his chance and his record of being inconsistent, for me, is pushing himself out of a job. Hopefully I'm wrong and we now go unbeaten with mainly wins through some of the toughest opposition we will face this year particularly away from home....it's hard to see however BUT, the only shining light is, this squad has the quality and strength to do it.....its just a shame it also possesses the ability to go on and draw/lose more games....
I also agree, reasonable post. I do think it's important to gain promotion this season, while it is within reach. If FFC stays in the Champ, I suspect (fear) FFC will be here for some number of years to come, waiting for an entirely revamped club to win a promotion. Many of our (so-called) better players are likely gone next year if we don't go up, and it's 're-build' time, which can be a lengthy process. Here's hoping the lads (and manager) figure it out and gain promotion, with or without Parker.
