The Peter principle states that a person who is competent at their job will earn promotion to a more senior position which requires different skills... The "Peter Principle" is therefore expressed as "in a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his or her level of incompetence". please note Mr Khan and Mr Parker
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
With due respect RF. What a load of cobblers, you clearly have never played at any serious level in a team game, or any level come to think about it, and if you by any chance have, you never understood the ethics, or the principles or the ingredients to play within the framework of a team. You talk a lot, but you say nothing. Rather like someone else on this forum who who unlike you is condescending and pompous and uses another name also to help back up his arguments, but they never disagree with each other, and they are always on at the same time on the same thread, and that's no coincidence as I don't believe in coincidences. At least you have the courtesy and grace not to follow that course. You can hold your own, you don't need back up, like the other two, I mean one, or is it one and a half ?
Anyway I hope you are still speaking to me after that.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 19, 2020, 01:38:15 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
With due respect RF. What a load of cobblers, you clearly have never played at any serious level in a team game, or any level come to think about it, and if you by any chance have, you never understood the ethics, or the principles or the ingredients to play within the framework of a team. You talk a lot, but you say nothing. Rather like someone else on this forum who who unlike you is condescending and pompous and uses another name also to help back up his arguments, but they never disagree with each other, and they are always on at the same time on the same thread, and that's no coincidence as I don't believe in coincidences. At least you have the courtesy and grace not to follow that course. You can hold your own, you don't need back up, like the other two, I mean one, or is it one and a half ?
Anyway I hope you are still speaking to me after that.
I see a bunch of players that want to do well in the championship that want to avoid making mistakes. What I want to see is a bunch of players that think being in the championship is Hell and are burning to get out of the championship to play in the Premier League. I want a team that thinks anything other than promotion is failure.
That's your opinion RF, fair enough, but I would think most of the current players at Fulham you mention are highly motivated, and the team and manager as a whole certainly is, to gain promotion to the Prem with Fulham, and hope to become part of the squad playing in the Prem.
I would think that as pro's they are naturally ambitious, and want to do the best they can in their careers, and will also know that for this Fulham team not to gain promotion would be seen as failure by fans, and media, and this won't be good for their future , whereas being part of a team that gains promotion to the Prem, and being the manager of that team, certainly will be.
But we are both are only surmising about what they think, i suppose.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 19, 2020, 01:38:15 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
With due respect RF. What a load of cobblers, you clearly have never played at any serious level in a team game, or any level come to think about it, and if you by any chance have, you never understood the ethics, or the principles or the ingredients to play within the framework of a team. You talk a lot, but you say nothing. Rather like someone else on this forum who who unlike you is condescending and pompous and uses another name also to help back up his arguments, but they never disagree with each other, and they are always on at the same time on the same thread, and that's no coincidence as I don't believe in coincidences. At least you have the courtesy and grace not to follow that course. You can hold your own, you don't need back up, like the other two, I mean one, or is it one and a half ?
Anyway I hope you are still speaking to me after that.
Woolly knows.😁
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 19, 2020, 01:38:15 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
With due respect RF. What a load of cobblers, you clearly have never played at any serious level in a team game, or any level come to think about it, and if you by any chance have, you never understood the ethics, or the principles or the ingredients to play within the framework of a team. You talk a lot, but you say nothing. Rather like someone else on this forum who who unlike you is condescending and pompous and uses another name also to help back up his arguments, but they never disagree with each other, and they are always on at the same time on the same thread, and that's no coincidence as I don't believe in coincidences. At least you have the courtesy and grace not to follow that course. You can hold your own, you don't need back up, like the other two, I mean one, or is it one and a half ?
Anyway I hope you are still speaking to me after that.
You feeling okay, WM?
What is all of this? I'm more interested in this than the actual thread now? Two people posting pretending to be one? Conspiracy theories on a Fulham message board? Seems a little far fetched, chum, but you have my interest! What have I missed?
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
Whether people agree with your point or not it has literally nothing to do with the Peter Principle.
Quote from: ByTheRiver on February 19, 2020, 09:19:51 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 19, 2020, 01:38:15 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
With due respect RF. What a load of cobblers, you clearly have never played at any serious level in a team game, or any level come to think about it, and if you by any chance have, you never understood the ethics, or the principles or the ingredients to play within the framework of a team. You talk a lot, but you say nothing. Rather like someone else on this forum who who unlike you is condescending and pompous and uses another name also to help back up his arguments, but they never disagree with each other, and they are always on at the same time on the same thread, and that's no coincidence as I don't believe in coincidences. At least you have the courtesy and grace not to follow that course. You can hold your own, you don't need back up, like the other two, I mean one, or is it one and a half ?
Anyway I hope you are still speaking to me after that.
You feeling okay, WM?
What is all of this? I'm more interested in this than the actual thread now? Two people posting pretending to be one? Conspiracy theories on a Fulham message board? Seems a little far fetched, chum, but you have my interest! What have I missed?
Another poster told me recently that they've worked out that I've a sock puppet on here, apparently, and this may be a reference to that. Seems he and WM are the Holmes and Watson of the forum. I'm genuinely intrigued as to who's supposed to be my puppet - I assume one of the other more articulate and reasonable posters, probably Sting of the North, but possibly you. I actually find it quite entertaining watching them struggle to get their heads around the shocking concept that there could be more than one intelligent person on the internet. In fairness, no one could accuse WM of having a sock puppet, such is the uniqueness of his personal brand of spam.
Quote from: Statto on February 19, 2020, 10:13:11 AM
Quote from: ByTheRiver on February 19, 2020, 09:19:51 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 19, 2020, 01:38:15 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
With due respect RF. What a load of cobblers, you clearly have never played at any serious level in a team game, or any level come to think about it, and if you by any chance have, you never understood the ethics, or the principles or the ingredients to play within the framework of a team. You talk a lot, but you say nothing. Rather like someone else on this forum who who unlike you is condescending and pompous and uses another name also to help back up his arguments, but they never disagree with each other, and they are always on at the same time on the same thread, and that's no coincidence as I don't believe in coincidences. At least you have the courtesy and grace not to follow that course. You can hold your own, you don't need back up, like the other two, I mean one, or is it one and a half ?
Anyway I hope you are still speaking to me after that.
You feeling okay, WM?
What is all of this? I'm more interested in this than the actual thread now? Two people posting pretending to be one? Conspiracy theories on a Fulham message board? Seems a little far fetched, chum, but you have my interest! What have I missed?
Another poster told me recently that they've worked out that I've a sock puppet on here, apparently, and this may be a reference to that. Seems he and WM are the Holmes and Watson of the forum. I'm genuinely intrigued as to who's supposed to be my puppet - I assume one of the other more articulate and reasonable posters, probably Sting of the North, but possibly you. I actually find it quite entertaining watching them struggle to get their heads around the shocking concept that there could be more than one intelligent person on the internet. In fairness, no one could accuse WM of having a sock puppet, such is the uniqueness of his personal brand of spam.
Nice
I'm petered out
I don't think the Peter Principle is the problem here.........it's nepotism and the problems of succession in a family business
Quote from: Baszab on February 19, 2020, 11:06:26 AM
I don't think the Peter Principle is the problem here.........it's nepotism and the problems of succession in a family business
A thoroughly reasonable deduction, IMO.
I don't have any thoughts on the Peter Principle, but I want to know more about whomever is rumoured to have created a second account to make it look like more people agree with them.
That's either the saddest thing ever, or the OP of this is wearing tin foil on their head.
Spill the beans! 086.gif
Quote from: Statto on February 19, 2020, 10:13:11 AM
Quote from: ByTheRiver on February 19, 2020, 09:19:51 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 19, 2020, 01:38:15 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
With due respect RF. What a load of cobblers, you clearly have never played at any serious level in a team game, or any level come to think about it, and if you by any chance have, you never understood the ethics, or the principles or the ingredients to play within the framework of a team. You talk a lot, but you say nothing. Rather like someone else on this forum who who unlike you is condescending and pompous and uses another name also to help back up his arguments, but they never disagree with each other, and they are always on at the same time on the same thread, and that's no coincidence as I don't believe in coincidences. At least you have the courtesy and grace not to follow that course. You can hold your own, you don't need back up, like the other two, I mean one, or is it one and a half ?
Anyway I hope you are still speaking to me after that.
You feeling okay, WM?
What is all of this? I'm more interested in this than the actual thread now? Two people posting pretending to be one? Conspiracy theories on a Fulham message board? Seems a little far fetched, chum, but you have my interest! What have I missed?
Another poster told me recently that they've worked out that I've a sock puppet on here, apparently, and this may be a reference to that. Seems he and WM are the Holmes and Watson of the forum. I'm genuinely intrigued as to who's supposed to be my puppet - I assume one of the other more articulate and reasonable posters, probably Sting of the North, but possibly you. I actually find it quite entertaining watching them struggle to get their heads around the shocking concept that there could be more than one intelligent person on the internet. In fairness, no one could accuse WM of having a sock puppet, such is the uniqueness of his personal brand of spam.
I did wonder if WM meant you (and possibly me!) but surely a quick glance at IP addresses or similar (or us having the odd political barney) would be enough to negate that particular deduction.
Imagine having the time and headspace to worry, and drum up conspiracy theories, about people posting on a message board. I am chuckling here typing this :005:
It could form the basis of a new detective drama on BBC Three. set in Scandinavia, such is the trend, and it could be a winning formula. Ben Whishaw to play me.
Quote from: ByTheRiver on February 19, 2020, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: Statto on February 19, 2020, 10:13:11 AM
Quote from: ByTheRiver on February 19, 2020, 09:19:51 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 19, 2020, 01:38:15 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
With due respect RF. What a load of cobblers, you clearly have never played at any serious level in a team game, or any level come to think about it, and if you by any chance have, you never understood the ethics, or the principles or the ingredients to play within the framework of a team. You talk a lot, but you say nothing. Rather like someone else on this forum who who unlike you is condescending and pompous and uses another name also to help back up his arguments, but they never disagree with each other, and they are always on at the same time on the same thread, and that's no coincidence as I don't believe in coincidences. At least you have the courtesy and grace not to follow that course. You can hold your own, you don't need back up, like the other two, I mean one, or is it one and a half ?
Anyway I hope you are still speaking to me after that.
You feeling okay, WM?
What is all of this? I'm more interested in this than the actual thread now? Two people posting pretending to be one? Conspiracy theories on a Fulham message board? Seems a little far fetched, chum, but you have my interest! What have I missed?
Another poster told me recently that they've worked out that I've a sock puppet on here, apparently, and this may be a reference to that. Seems he and WM are the Holmes and Watson of the forum. I'm genuinely intrigued as to who's supposed to be my puppet - I assume one of the other more articulate and reasonable posters, probably Sting of the North, but possibly you. I actually find it quite entertaining watching them struggle to get their heads around the shocking concept that there could be more than one intelligent person on the internet. In fairness, no one could accuse WM of having a sock puppet, such is the uniqueness of his personal brand of spam.
I did wonder if WM meant you (and possibly me!) but surely a quick glance at IP addresses or similar (or us having the odd political barney) would be enough to negate that particular deduction.
Imagine having the time and headspace to worry, and drum up conspiracy theories, about people posting on a message board. I am chuckling here typing this :005:
It could form the basis of a new detective drama on BBC Three. set in Scandinavia, such is the trend, and it could be a winning formula. Ben Whishaw to play me.
I know it's not in keeping with the Scandi crime drama formula but I'll go for Craig Fairbrass
It's amazing what happens on a football forum when the football lets us down.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
Sorry normally agree with your posts and can see the logic you're using here but character and attitude are every bit as important as ability. Give me Stef Jo and Kamara every day over Seri and Schurrle. Also somebody obviously didnt explain this point to Sheffield Uniteds squad!
I'm not sure if I agree with any of this or not, hang on a minute.
Yes, We......oops I, agree with myself and him or her.
He/she and me ....zzzzzzzzzz
Quote from: ByTheRiver on February 19, 2020, 09:19:51 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 19, 2020, 01:38:15 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
With due respect RF. What a load of cobblers, you clearly have never played at any serious level in a team game, or any level come to think about it, and if you by any chance have, you never understood the ethics, or the principles or the ingredients to play within the framework of a team. You talk a lot, but you say nothing. Rather like someone else on this forum who who unlike you is condescending and pompous and uses another name also to help back up his arguments, but they never disagree with each other, and they are always on at the same time on the same thread, and that's no coincidence as I don't believe in coincidences. At least you have the courtesy and grace not to follow that course. You can hold your own, you don't need back up, like the other two, I mean one, or is it one and a half ?
Anyway I hope you are still speaking to me after that.
You feeling okay, WM?
What is all of this? I'm more interested in this than the actual thread now? Two people posting pretending to be one? Conspiracy theories on a Fulham message board? Seems a little far fetched, chum, but you have my interest! What have I missed?
I have a Crack Investigations Unit that is working 24/7 comprising of four shifts, I am on the grave yard shift. This Investigations Team have unearthed a situation whereupon we believe one individual is posing under 2 names. Nothing unique there as it most likely happens often at forums. We are gradually flushing them out, small steps, and currently it is circumstantial evidence, hearsay and third party.
Nevertheless, the suspect or suspects since I posted the item are behaving with all the hallmarks of a person that is not quite sure whether to twist, stick or bust.
Probably looking over their shoulder as I speak, the plot thickens.
However, it's early days and I could be barking up the wrong 🌲 🌳 tree, time will tell.
"He who feeds the crocodile the most, does so in the hope he will be the last to be eaten".
Quote from: Twig on February 19, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
Whether people agree with your point or not it has literally nothing to do with the Peter Principle.
The Peter Principle is that people rise until they reach a position that they cannot move up to the next level and that people that belong at the next level move on until they too are incompetent. According to that theory, most players get to Fulham because they too good for the teams below and also only at the club because they would fail in the division above.
What is more according to the peter principle after getting in division above and getting relegated, most people that are vaguely competent at that level will find a way to stay there. So after relegation, a team will be filled with players not good enough for the premier league and ideal for promotion battle. How does the Peter Principle not fit?
The Peter Principle also implies that Championship players that know they can never be Premier League players are not going to be fighting for promotion as hard as those desperate to play at the next level. Although, all players in the squad know promotion will be good for them, but a player dreaming of playing premier league is more hungry than one that wants to do well in the championship each season.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 10:11:46 PM
Quote from: Twig on February 19, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
Whether people agree with your point or not it has literally nothing to do with the Peter Principle.
The Peter Principle is that people rise until they reach a position that they cannot move up to the next level and that people that belong at the next level move on until they too are incompetent. According to that theory, most players get to Fulham because they too good for the teams below and also only at the club because they would fail in the division above.
What is more according to the peter principle after getting in division above and getting relegated, most people that are vaguely competent at that level will find a way to stay there. So after relegation, a team will be filled with players not good enough for the premier league and ideal for promotion battle. How does the Peter Principle not fit?
The Peter Principle also implies that Championship players that know they can never be Premier League players are not going to be fighting for promotion as hard as those desperate to play at the next level. Although, all players in the squad know promotion will be good for them, but a player dreaming of playing premier league is more hungry than one that wants to do well in the championship each season.
Excellent observations and you make more than a good point. I can not argue with that philosophy.
I can visualise lots of examples.
Two questions what position does Peter Principle play, and have you been feeding that crocodile 🐊 too much.
Apart from that I am intrigued as to which players in our squad are categorised for want of a better word as ambitious or cautious. I may even list my own if it comes to it.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 19, 2020, 10:40:26 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 10:11:46 PM
Quote from: Twig on February 19, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
Whether people agree with your point or not it has literally nothing to do with the Peter Principle.
The Peter Principle is that people rise until they reach a position that they cannot move up to the next level and that people that belong at the next level move on until they too are incompetent. According to that theory, most players get to Fulham because they too good for the teams below and also only at the club because they would fail in the division above.
What is more according to the peter principle after getting in division above and getting relegated, most people that are vaguely competent at that level will find a way to stay there. So after relegation, a team will be filled with players not good enough for the premier league and ideal for promotion battle. How does the Peter Principle not fit?
The Peter Principle also implies that Championship players that know they can never be Premier League players are not going to be fighting for promotion as hard as those desperate to play at the next level. Although, all players in the squad know promotion will be good for them, but a player dreaming of playing premier league is more hungry than one that wants to do well in the championship each season.
Excellent observations and you make more than a good point. I can not argue with that philosophy.
I can visualise lots of examples.
Two questions what position does Peter Principle play, and have you been feeding that crocodile 🐊 too much.
Apart from that I am intrigued as to which players in our squad are categorised for want of a better word as ambitious or cautious. I may even list my own if it comes to it.
All the players in the squad have been professional, but only Rodak, Hector, Mitro, Odoi, and Onamah are anywhere near their best (with Odoi's and Onamah's best being quite limited). I am going to "feed that crocodile 🐊" some more, as I won't single out players that I think are not hungry for promotion, as I don't know if performance of some players like Betts, Mawson, Arter, Stefjo, Cairney and Knockaert are not their best because they carrying an injury and/or they not hungry for promotion.
In my opinion , once a player is on the field of play, then I think it's hard not to play at your full capacity - give your best, even if you might feel that if you get promotion you might lose your place in the team, as happened to K Mac and Stef Jo last season. Though, if you're in a Prem squad you at least get Prem wages. Also, being part of a team that gets into the Prem is good for the CV and your career opportunities.
I just think that an elite pro player can't play in a game and not play at his best once the game starts, whatever his views off the pitch.
But fans generally seem to think that players often don't give their all, but i think you can't tell this from the stands - a player might be having an off day, be not comfortable in his position or role in the team, or injured as you say.
I don't think a spectator can tell if a player is not doing his best, even though he might be performing poorly.
Who wants fans to think they aren't trying their hardest anyway?
I think the Fulham team always takes the field with the intent of doing well, and there is a lot of outer pressure to do this, as well as internal motivation, even if it doesn't always look that way!
Obviously, teams can have off days, as against Barnsley. This was a classic banana skin, with high expectations to beat the bottom team, and Barnsley had other ideas than to lay down quietly.
I'm sure the manager would have instilled in the players the dangers of complacency, but the team never hit it's stride, though Barnsley should be credited with having a lot to do with that.
But these results happen. Now the team needs to bounce back, show us what it's made of.
Quote from: RaySmith on February 20, 2020, 03:54:46 AM
In my opinion, once a player is on the field of play, then I think it's hard not to play at your full capacity - give your best, even if you might feel that if you get promotion you might lose your place in the team, as happened to K Mac and Stef Jo last season. Though, if you're in a Prem squad you at least get Prem wages. Also, being part of a team that gets into the Prem is good for the CV and your career opportunities.
I just think that an elite pro player can't play in a game and not play at his best once the game starts, whatever his views off the pitch. But fans generally seem to think that players often don't give their all, but I think you can't tell this from the stands - a player might be having an off day, be not comfortable in his position or role in the team, or injured as you say.
I don't think a spectator can tell if a player is not doing his best, even though he might be performing poorly. Who wants fans to think they aren't trying their hardest anyway? I think the Fulham team always takes the field with the intent of doing well, and there is a lot of outer pressure to do this, as well as internal motivation, even if it doesn't always look that way!
Obviously, teams can have off days, as against Barnsley. This was a classic banana skin, with high expectations to beat the bottom team, and Barnsley had other ideas than to lay down quietly. I'm sure the manager would have instilled in the players the dangers of complacency, but the team never hit it's stride, though Barnsley should be credited with having a lot to do with that. But these results happen. Now the team needs to bounce back, show us what it's made of.
I think most players try to give their best every game, but sometimes players, like Cauley Woodrow against Fulham, find an almost super-human hunger that drives them beyond their normal performance. Cauley Woodrow played like be had a point to prove against us that we underestimated his talent and in fairness he proved it.
Although Fulham almost have the opposite problem, one of Fulham's problems seems to be most of our victories are gritty performances with a bit extra effort, we also need to get at least one victory each triple match week based on technical skill alone (like at home against Milwall), fighting every game as we do burns a team out.
I have always believed there are a lot of players who could play in bottom half PL teams, that currently play in decent Championship teams. So their ability level isn't necessarily PL or Championship, but they are likely to excel in one and be mediocre to below average in the other.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 20, 2020, 12:32:22 AM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on February 19, 2020, 10:40:26 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 10:11:46 PM
Quote from: Twig on February 19, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on February 19, 2020, 01:17:08 AM
The "Peter Principle" would say if we want promotion we should keep players that don't want to play in the championship and want to play higher. Letting players go that don't want a career in the championship (Anguissa and Seri) and keeping players that want a career in the championship (Betts, KMac, Stefjo and Kamara) ensures Fulham follow the Peter Principle and don't get promoted.
Whether people agree with your point or not it has literally nothing to do with the Peter Principle.
The Peter Principle is that people rise until they reach a position that they cannot move up to the next level and that people that belong at the next level move on until they too are incompetent. According to that theory, most players get to Fulham because they too good for the teams below and also only at the club because they would fail in the division above.
What is more according to the peter principle after getting in division above and getting relegated, most people that are vaguely competent at that level will find a way to stay there. So after relegation, a team will be filled with players not good enough for the premier league and ideal for promotion battle. How does the Peter Principle not fit?
The Peter Principle also implies that Championship players that know they can never be Premier League players are not going to be fighting for promotion as hard as those desperate to play at the next level. Although, all players in the squad know promotion will be good for them, but a player dreaming of playing premier league is more hungry than one that wants to do well in the championship each season.
Excellent observations and you make more than a good point. I can not argue with that philosophy.
I can visualise lots of examples.
Two questions what position does Peter Principle play, and have you been feeding that crocodile 🐊 too much.
Apart from that I am intrigued as to which players in our squad are categorised for want of a better word as ambitious or cautious. I may even list my own if it comes to it.
All the players in the squad have been professional, but only Rodak, Hector, Mitro, Odoi, and Onamah are anywhere near their best (with Odoi's and Onamah's best being quite limited). I am going to "feed that crocodile 🐊" some more, as I won't single out players that I think are not hungry for promotion, as I don't know if performance of some players like Betts, Mawson, Arter, Stefjo, Cairney and Knockaert are not their best because they carrying an injury and/or they not hungry for promotion.
That's fair enough.
The Peter Principle only applies to and can only exist in a hierarchy since it is only within such that it can operate. Any employee can take their talents to another place where a hierarchical structure may not exist, or even use family connections or a new career to circumvent the whole notion. And what about those who are already incompetent on the day they are first employed and/or suddenly become much better at something than anyone could have imagined and never want to change?
I think the Peter principle has always existed but probably happens more today as a technical job becomes a completely different job due to computers etc. However there are a lot of deciding factors in a game of football like age position at club. clubs ambition clubs ability as well as other players moving on. It is far more complicated than some think
Peter Principal or not there are too many players in our squad not playing at their maximum effort (physical & mental) and the team is performing to less than the sum of its parts!
Call it whatever you like but the team is playing with the hand brake on for some reason.
Dr Peter's espoused his theory in the 1960's and it related to hierarchical corporate entities. It is as true now as ever especially in larger organisations. I am not sure that it can be applied to a sporting entity. However,after a long career I have also observed that sometimes the subject of the Principle gets a further promotion and becomes very productive. I have also observed that in a number of cases second generations entering a family business take the business to new highs. At the end of the day we all love this crazy club and after over 60 years of support I still want to see the club do well, but it would not be Fulham without a few hiccups
The Peter Principle (PP) is about incompetence to do a job and it implies that the organisation is a group that is structured to allow it 'to hide'. (as Cambridge Pete says above)
On the first day you perform a task you are not expected to perform it as well as someone who has been in the same job for the reasonable learning period required. That period is relative to the skills and knowledge required to do the job to satisfactory level. Workers may take less time or more time to become satisfactory and whilst there may be a lowest entry requirement there is no upper limit to how well they perform. Much depends on the management of the worker, the relationship type involved, the training, tools and environment offered, and the limits to the freedom the worker has in developing or improving the way the job is done and the many and several factors external to the job itself - the worker's personal circumstances.
New methods, tools or new technology (e.g. computers) often get successfully introduced when workers suggest improvements about the way things are done but can be less successful when introduced top down (for obvious reasons). The real question that needs to be asked about PP is why someone who was once so good at a former job is so poor in a new one and how senior staff (who may also be crippled by PP) become so unable to do their jobs. That is the food for thought about PP.
