I have just been told (from reliable source) that Betteneli and his wife both have it, does that now mean whole squad in quarantine
That's not what they've done in the PL. Just the person who's tested positive goes into quarantine.
Although now they're bringing back full contact training, that might change things.
Oh dear that is bad news and I would have thought the whole squad and every one at Motspur Park would now be subjected to intensive testing.
This season will fast turn into a joke, an outbreak in one team means a bunch of other teams will have an easy game. We could hypothetically get into Premier League because numerous Leeds or WBA got sick and lost the last 9 games of the season. There will be a number of players with Covid-19 as each club has 25 players and there are 24 teams, that's 600 people being tested in a country that has 1 in every 150 people are infected, which could be four teams affected.
I have removed some abusive posts on this thread.
It was very clear from a recent feedback poll we posted on the forum that members do not want us to tolerate these kind of posts.
If true, wishing Betts and his family the best. Speedy recovery.
If not true... will not look at this thread again and anxiously await the finish to the season.
I wish him and the family well.
If distancing was maintained i do not think the squad has to self isolate. however if they touched or there were common items shared then they need to think about that. every club will be in the same position so i feel sure protocols are in place.
this is a terrible situation we remain in and in my opion the mania to ease the situation is rather to premature.
Stop it with the rumours.....
IF Betts is the only player testing positive, that's a good result.
The players will all be tested regularly, anyway.
Quote from: RaySmith on May 28, 2020, 05:20:57 AM
IF Betts is the only player testing positive, that's a good result.
The players will all be tested regularly, anyway.
It seems UK Herd Immunity among footballer is incredibly low as 1014 players have been tested, around 710 needed for herd immunity and only 2 have had the illness.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 28, 2020, 06:20:21 AM
Quote from: RaySmith on May 28, 2020, 05:20:57 AM
IF Betts is the only player testing positive, that's a good result.
The players will all be tested regularly, anyway.
It seems UK Herd Immunity among footballer is incredibly low as 1014 players have been tested, around 710 needed for herd immunity and only 2 have had the illness.
This is testing for who has the virus currently, not who has had it in the past
Also not sure where you got those numbers. From the PL official statements it's 12 positive results from around 1,000 tests so far, which is pretty bloody high considering we've been in lockdown for two months
Surely the only important thing is that if this rumour is true then to wish the Bettinelli family a swift and full recovery. Everything else pales into insignificance.
Quote from: Twig on May 28, 2020, 09:49:12 AM
Surely the only important thing is that if this rumour is true then to wish the Bettinelli family a swift and full recovery. Everything else pales into insignificance.
Totally agree, I wish them a speedy recovery.
Quote from: ex-Pat on May 28, 2020, 12:32:15 AM
Stop it with the rumours.....
What, the one that end up being true?
It's a forum, you'll get a percentage of rumors that'll be true, or not, not your place to tell people otherwise...
BBC just reported, 2 Fulham players have it. No names due to confidentiality.
3 positive players, including 2 from FFC, from 1030 tests (yesterday?) If so, isn't it reasonable to expect more in the coming days? Fingers crossed that those who suffer from/carry it and their families all get to good health asap.
Quote from: Statto on May 28, 2020, 07:58:39 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 28, 2020, 06:20:21 AM
Quote from: RaySmith on May 28, 2020, 05:20:57 AM
IF Betts is the only player testing positive, that's a good result.
The players will all be tested regularly, anyway.
It seems UK Herd Immunity among footballer is incredibly low as 1014 players have been tested, around 710 needed for herd immunity and only 2 have had the illness.
This is testing for who has the virus currently, not who has had it in the past
Also not sure where you got those numbers. From the PL official statements it's 12 positive results from around 1,000 tests so far, which is pretty bloody high considering we've been in lockdown for two months
EDIT: just realised you were referring to the EFL numbers.
Still, updated EFL numbers are now 5 positives from around 1,000 players. So combined with PL gives 17 positives from around 2,000 players
You have to wonder how they caught it.
The two players caught the virus in the same way as the 50,000 or so people who've died caught it. From close proximity to an infected person. It's not exactly rocket science.
Quote from: mrmicawbers on May 28, 2020, 01:16:29 PM
You have to wonder how they caught it.
Why? They could have caught it in the supermarket, park, garden centre, or anywhere you might come into contact with other people. They also could have caught it from a family member who came into contact with the virus. Surely it's not that surprising that some footballers will have the virus?
Quote from: Atherton on May 28, 2020, 02:09:53 PM
The two players caught the virus in the same way as the 50,000 or so people who've died caught it. From close proximity to an infected person. It's not exactly rocket science.
Nothing is "rocket science" if you decide to overly simplify it to the point of it being meaningless to even try to discuss further. Your explanation is like saying that they caught the virus because they got infected, and actually explains nothing on their particular case. We don't know what constitutes close proximity, we don't know how long the virus may survive on various materials in various environments and we don't know if there are other factors contributing to why some get infected and some not. This means that they may not have been close to anyone infected at all by any reasonable definition, but instead at some point close to something that has previously been close to someone infected. As one example.
If we continue with this daft notion IMO of completing the season, then Covid 19 might end up picking the team if infections get any greater. If we were playing next week, you would be praying the Fulham 2 were not Mitro & Hector.
Gezkc
It is interesting that the contact tracers' advice is to try to find those who have either been within two metres of an infected person for fifteen minutes or more or who have had close face to face contact with an infected person. It doesn't seem from that that simply standing near someone in a supermarket for a few seconds is a risk, even if they are infected.
Thinking about these two criteria, my wife and I couldn't remember when we last met either, except with each other, since the virus began to emerge, and oddly enough just a few minutes later one of the LBC broadcasters made a similar point about himself and his family.
Quote from: jarv on May 28, 2020, 12:01:51 PM
BBC just reported, 2 Fulham players have it. No names due to confidentiality.
Quote from: Atherton on May 28, 2020, 02:09:53 PM
The two players caught the virus in the same way as the 50,000 or so people who've died caught it. From close proximity to an infected person. It's not exactly rocket science.
Not necessarily so, they could have just touched the same door handle or even the same football.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 27, 2020, 05:52:52 PM
This season will fast turn into a joke, an outbreak in one team means a bunch of other teams will have an easy game. We could hypothetically get into Premier League because numerous Leeds or WBA got sick and lost the last 9 games of the season. There will be a number of players with Covid-19 as each club has 25 players and there are 24 teams, that's 600 people being tested in a country that has 1 in every 150 people are infected, which could be four teams affected.
This has to be a real risk.
What happens if the first team GKs all become infected? Do you play a 15 y-o in goal?
I hope that this is properly though through or as you say it will fast becomes a farce !
Quote from: glenhodgso on May 28, 2020, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 27, 2020, 05:52:52 PM
This season will fast turn into a joke, an outbreak in one team means a bunch of other teams will have an easy game. We could hypothetically get into Premier League because numerous Leeds or WBA got sick and lost the last 9 games of the season. There will be a number of players with Covid-19 as each club has 25 players and there are 24 teams, that's 600 people being tested in a country that has 1 in every 150 people are infected, which could be four teams affected.
This has to be a real risk.
What happens if the first team GKs all become infected? Do you play a 15 y-o in goal?
I hope that this is properly though through or as you say it will fast becomes a farce !
I think it all has become a bit of a farce already.
All leagues should have been null n void a month ago,and all efforts put into starting next season off on schedule, with same fixtures as this one.
Quote from: glenhodgso on May 28, 2020, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 27, 2020, 05:52:52 PM
This season will fast turn into a joke, an outbreak in one team means a bunch of other teams will have an easy game. We could hypothetically get into Premier League because numerous Leeds or WBA got sick and lost the last 9 games of the season. There will be a number of players with Covid-19 as each club has 25 players and there are 24 teams, that's 600 people being tested in a country that has 1 in every 150 people are infected, which could be four teams affected.
This has to be a real risk.
What happens if the first team GKs all become infected? Do you play a 15 y-o in goal?
I hope that this is properly though through or as you say it will fast becomes a farce !
There is always a risk of injury and illness. Clubs regularly have to deal with 6 or 7 or more players being unavailable. I suspect there will be far more players out with regular breaks and strains than with coronavirus. In the event that a large number of players are out the authorities will just have to apply some common sense, as they have done in the past by allowing emergency loans for GKs, for example. I suspect if necessary, they will postpone fixtures. But on the stats so far, it seems likely they'll be able to complete the season, so I don't blame them for trying admirably to do that.
Quote from: Statto on May 28, 2020, 05:56:51 PM
There is always a risk of injury and illness. Clubs regularly have to deal with 6 or 7 or more players being unavailable. I suspect there will be far more players out with regular breaks and strains than with coronavirus. In the event that a large number of players are out the authorities will just have to apply some common sense, as they have done in the past by allowing emergency loans for GKs, for example. I suspect if necessary, they will postpone fixtures. But on the stats so far, it seems likely they'll be able to complete the season, so I don't blame them for trying admirably to do that.
Well put. Agree.
If the current risk is deemed too great and football doesn't attempt to restart, I don't see how that risk will diminish any further until a vaccine is ready. And what if that were to take another 12 months? I venture that few footballers would want to be out of action for that length of time - not withstanding, I would imagine, there being few clubs who can afford to pay their players for a year when there is no revenue.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on May 28, 2020, 05:45:11 PM
Quote from: glenhodgso on May 28, 2020, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 27, 2020, 05:52:52 PM
This season will fast turn into a joke, an outbreak in one team means a bunch of other teams will have an easy game. We could hypothetically get into Premier League because numerous Leeds or WBA got sick and lost the last 9 games of the season. There will be a number of players with Covid-19 as each club has 25 players and there are 24 teams, that's 600 people being tested in a country that has 1 in every 150 people are infected, which could be four teams affected.
This has to be a real risk.
What happens if the first team GKs all become infected? Do you play a 15 y-o in goal?
I hope that this is properly though through or as you say it will fast becomes a farce !
I think it all has become a bit of a farce already.
All leagues should have been null n void a month ago,and all efforts put into starting next season off on schedule, with same fixtures as this one.
Seems to be going okay in Germany at the moment, and they had more positive tests in their first round of testing than we did.
Welll ets hope the 2 FFC guys with it self isolate responsibly and recover quickly.
Quote from: junior white on May 29, 2020, 07:14:33 AM
Welll ets hope the 2 FFC guys with it self isolate responsibly and recover quickly.
Let's hope it hasn't spread anywhere at the training facilitates or we could be losing five to ten players, which would mean our season is effectively over.
Quote from: Atherton on May 28, 2020, 02:09:53 PM
The two players caught the virus in the same way as the 50,000 or so people who've died caught it. From close proximity to an infected person. It's not exactly rocket science.
Ha ha really.Plus lots of other ways you should have mentioned.Rocket Science obviously not your subject.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 29, 2020, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: junior white on May 29, 2020, 07:14:33 AM
Welll ets hope the 2 FFC guys with it self isolate responsibly and recover quickly.
Let's hope it hasn't spread anywhere at the training facilitates or we could be losing five to ten players, which would mean our season is effectively over.
Really? They haven't even decided when the season will re-start yet, and going by the PL plans it's unlikely to be for at least a few weeks. How can you be fretting that it's already over?
One could even argue that it's better to get some more infections out the way now. As a London club, it's likely that 4 or 5 of our players have already had the virus, and with a couple more infected now, perhaps we aren't far off developing our very own herd immunity
086.gif
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 29, 2020, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: junior white on May 29, 2020, 07:14:33 AM
Welll ets hope the 2 FFC guys with it self isolate responsibly and recover quickly.
Let's hope it hasn't spread anywhere at the training facilitates or we could be losing five to ten players, which would mean our season is effectively over.
I look at it as i hope they get well soon, i didnt look at the negative side just hoping those affected got well
According to the telegraph Fulham have two players who tested positive for Coronavirus. Wonder who the other player is.
Wonder why the Blackburn player was named yet not ours.
Quote from: Buffalo76 on May 29, 2020, 09:19:21 AM
Wonder why the Blackburn player was named yet not ours.
Personal preference, he revealed it. All down to data protection and individuals choice
Quote from: Statto on May 29, 2020, 08:35:14 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 29, 2020, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: junior white on May 29, 2020, 07:14:33 AM
Welll ets hope the 2 FFC guys with it self isolate responsibly and recover quickly.
Let's hope it hasn't spread anywhere at the training facilitates or we could be losing five to ten players, which would mean our season is effectively over.
Really? They haven't even decided when the season will re-start yet, and going by the PL plans it's unlikely to be for at least a few weeks. How can you be fretting that it's already over?
One could even argue that it's better to get some more infections out the way now. As a London club, it's likely that 4 or 5 of our players have already had the virus, and with a couple more infected now, perhaps we aren't far off developing our very own herd immunity
086.gif
Statto, I don't necessarily disagree, you're probably right. But let's not put too much reliance on the concept of herd immunity, as of now there is no scientific proof of immunity at all.
Quote from: Twig on May 29, 2020, 11:14:28 AM
Quote from: Statto on May 29, 2020, 08:35:14 AM
One could even argue that it's better to get some more infections out the way now. As a London club, it's likely that 4 or 5 of our players have already had the virus, and with a couple more infected now, perhaps we aren't far off developing our very own herd immunity
086.gif
Statto, I don't necessarily disagree, you're probably right. But let's not put too much reliance on the concept of herd immunity, as of now there is no scientific proof of immunity at all.
In fairness, he has used an emoji which indicates he doesn't necessarily believe what he has written is true.
Quote from: Arthur on May 29, 2020, 11:19:19 AM
Quote from: Twig on May 29, 2020, 11:14:28 AM
Quote from: Statto on May 29, 2020, 08:35:14 AM
One could even argue that it's better to get some more infections out the way now. As a London club, it's likely that 4 or 5 of our players have already had the virus, and with a couple more infected now, perhaps we aren't far off developing our very own herd immunity
086.gif
Statto, I don't necessarily disagree, you're probably right. But let's not put too much reliance on the concept of herd immunity, as of now there is no scientific proof of immunity at all.
In fairness, he has used an emoji which indicates he doesn't necessarily believe what he has written is true.
I was being slightly facetious because I appreciate this is a controversial subject. In particular I appreciate the uncertainty Twig mentions about how long immunity lasts, and the ethical concerns about herd immunity as a 'solution' when it would involve many, many deaths of elderly/ vulnerable people before it is achieved.
Nonetheless I think it a valid point that those of our players being infected now are highly likely to have at least some level of immunity over the remainder of the season, including a potential play-off final a couple of months from now.
I had an idea.
Forget this season but start next season with Barnsley (bottom) on zero points and Leeds (top) on 37 points, being their margin over Barnsley. Fulham would start with 30 points, and so on.
Then play next season's 46 games as normal, making an 83 game combined season. I guess you would apply the same to goal difference - Barnsley to start with -20, Leeds with +26, etc.
Just a thought - don't shoot me.
Quote from: jarv on May 28, 2020, 12:01:51 PM
BBC just reported, 2 Fulham players have it. No names due to confidentiality.
So why are other clubs making players' names public?
Quote from: deadcowboys on May 28, 2020, 02:51:42 PM
If we continue with this daft notion IMO of completing the season, then Covid 19 might end up picking the team if infections get any greater. If we were playing next week, you would be praying the Fulham 2 were not Mitro & Hector.
Well, an outbreak at a club could be a lot worse than two. One asymptomatic infected person at church in Butte County on Mother's Day in California (10th May 2020) managed to infect 180 people in one church service, so I am certain an infected football player that has a false negative before the game is capable of infecting every outfield player on the field during the game. The spread with an hour and a half football game is likely to be comparable to an hour church service.
An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 01, 2020, 07:53:26 AM
Quote from: deadcowboys on May 28, 2020, 02:51:42 PM
If we continue with this daft notion IMO of completing the season, then Covid 19 might end up picking the team if infections get any greater. If we were playing next week, you would be praying the Fulham 2 were not Mitro & Hector.
Well, an outbreak at a club could be a lot worse than two. One asymptomatic infected person at church in Butte County on Mother's Day in California (10th May 2020) managed to infect 180 people in one church service, so I am certain an infected football player that has a false negative before the game is capable of infecting every outfield player on the field during the game. The spread with an hour and a half football game is likely to be comparable to an hour church service.
An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.
You make a great point. It clearly shows the decision to restart is entirely financially driven. The season should have just been stopped. Top 3 up, top 3 down.
Life has to go on - we can't live in perpetual lockdown.
I actually see little risk of a large percentage of players being unable to play because they've contracted the virus, anyway, and this has been shown by the very small percentage of players so far tested who have tested positive.
They will be a lot less at risk than most people, who can catch it going shopping, to the park, or going to work.
And if they do get it, they will immediately know and be able to self isolate, with medical supervision - unlike most of us, who will find it hard to discover if we've got it or not.
I don't think it's just about money, but about getting back to normal as much as possible, with so many people energised and feeling positive with the resumption of football.
Football returning seems the safest of al the measures the govt is now taking to ease the lockdown.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 01, 2020, 07:53:26 AM
Well, an outbreak at a club could be a lot worse than two. One asymptomatic infected person at church in Butte County on Mother's Day in California (10th May 2020) managed to infect 180 people in one church service, so I am certain an infected football player that has a false negative before the game is capable of infecting every outfield player on the field during the game. The spread with an hour and a half football game is likely to be comparable to an hour church service.
An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.
A large outbreak among footballers hasn't happened yet, and based on the way it's panning out for the Bundesliga experience, seems unlikely.
If it does happen, the EFL can take action at that stage, most likely by postponing matches, or just suspending the season again.
The current attempt to finish the season has a good chance of success, and if it fails, we'll be no worse off than we are now, just a bit closer to having a finished season, and a better understanding of what needs to be done to get professional football back.
Quote from: JoelH5 on June 01, 2020, 08:29:05 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 01, 2020, 07:53:26 AM
Quote from: deadcowboys on May 28, 2020, 02:51:42 PM
If we continue with this daft notion IMO of completing the season, then Covid 19 might end up picking the team if infections get any greater. If we were playing next week, you would be praying the Fulham 2 were not Mitro & Hector.
Well, an outbreak at a club could be a lot worse than two. One asymptomatic infected person at church in Butte County on Mother's Day in California (10th May 2020) managed to infect 180 people in one church service, so I am certain an infected football player that has a false negative before the game is capable of infecting every outfield player on the field during the game. The spread with an hour and a half football game is likely to be comparable to an hour church service.
An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.
You make a great point. It clearly shows the decision to restart is entirely financially driven. The season should have just been stopped. Top 3 up, top 3 down.
Are the club also testing to see if any of the players have already had the virus?
I'm sure I recall around Christmas / January a flu like virus going around the club laying quite a few of the players off - I think lots of people at Motspur Park were also laid low - according to some reports in France it looks like the virus was in their country undetected since early December.
If the players have already had it maybe they might also now have some immunity.
Quote from: Montague on June 01, 2020, 09:30:30 AM
Quote from: JoelH5 on June 01, 2020, 08:29:05 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 01, 2020, 07:53:26 AM
Quote from: deadcowboys on May 28, 2020, 02:51:42 PM
If we continue with this daft notion IMO of completing the season, then Covid 19 might end up picking the team if infections get any greater. If we were playing next week, you would be praying the Fulham 2 were not Mitro & Hector.
Well, an outbreak at a club could be a lot worse than two. One asymptomatic infected person at church in Butte County on Mother's Day in California (10th May 2020) managed to infect 180 people in one church service, so I am certain an infected football player that has a false negative before the game is capable of infecting every outfield player on the field during the game. The spread with an hour and a half football game is likely to be comparable to an hour church service.
An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.
You make a great point. It clearly shows the decision to restart is entirely financially driven. The season should have just been stopped. Top 3 up, top 3 down.
Are the club also testing to see if any of the players have already had the virus?
I'm sure I recall around Christmas / January a flu like virus going around the club laying quite a few of the players off - I think lots of people at Motspur Park were also laid low - according to some reports in France it looks like the virus was in their country undetected since early December.
If the players have already had it maybe they might also now have some immunity.
I believe they have a test for this now,so you would like to think so.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 01, 2020, 07:53:26 AM
Well, an outbreak at a club could be a lot worse than two. One asymptomatic infected person at church in Butte County on Mother's Day in California (10th May 2020) managed to infect 180 people in one church service, so I am certain an infected football player that has a false negative before the game is capable of infecting every outfield player on the field during the game. The spread with an hour and a half football game is likely to be comparable to an hour church service.
An hour and a half football game on a large pitch in the open air cannot possibly be compared to an hour church service in a much smaller enclosed building. You're far less likely to catch it out of doors. The risk is more in the changing rooms.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 01, 2020, 07:53:26 AM
An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.
May I ask what you think will happen if we don't attempt to finish the season? Do you hope that we will be promoted automatically as the third-placed team? I think there's almost no chance that this would happen owing to the number of P.L. clubs who would resist relegation on the basis of any non-playing method. Even if a scenario such as you outline scuppers our hopes and we have to go again in September as a Championship club, how would we be worse off than were the season to end here and now?
EFL have already said, that is the league is null and void, and it goes to PPG, then only the top 2 will go up. The 3rd place team will fight it out in a play-off.
My argument with this, is if it's deemed unsafe to kick another ball in a normal league game, then, why is it safe to kick a ball in a playoff match? - but hey-ho.
Whatever happens, Fulham will not be sent up in 3rd with Leeds and WBA, I'd also lay my house on it, so, the best course of action is that season is finished, if we want any chance of the autos.
Everyone knows it's our destiny to be knocked out by, or, to lose to Brentford in the Playoffs anyway.
Quote from: Arthur on June 01, 2020, 07:43:19 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 01, 2020, 07:53:26 AM
An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.
May I ask what you think will happen if we don't attempt to finish the season? Do you hope that we will be promoted automatically as the third-placed team? I think there's almost no chance that this would happen owing to the number of P.L. clubs who would resist relegation on the basis of any non-playing method. Even if a scenario such as you outline scuppers our hopes and we have to go again in September as a Championship club, how would we be worse off than were the season to end here and now?
It may be in Fulham's best interest to restart the season and we may be in the Championship next season if we stop now, but I think restarting the season could produce an unfair result like Leeds and WBA not getting promoted due to an outbreak there. I don't support restarting the season
If we stop now:
Scenario 1: If Leeds and WBA get promoted into a 22 team premier league, then we will probably be fighting for one automatic promotion place and one playoff place with Brentford, Forest, Cardiff, Huddersfield, Stoke and Bristol frankly I like our chances.
Scenario 2: If Leeds, WBA, and Brentford get promoted with Norwich, Aston Villa and Bournemouth get relegated with two automatic promotion places then I still like our chances.
Scenario 3: Leeds, WBA, and Fulham get promoted, which is perfect especially if the wrong teams like Everton get relegated.
If we don't stop now:
We could be a lot worse off if the wrong teams get promoted and the wrong teams get relegated. Fulham and Leeds have outbreaks, so WBA, Brentford, and Preston get promoted, while Everton and West Ham have outbreaks so get relegated. We enter the last season of parachute payments with Everton, West Ham, Leeds, Fulham and Forest in the Championship.
The other scenarios is individual players and individual teams refuse to play or have an outbreak. QPR don't want to play, what if instead they play but lose every game, with Middlesbrough, Wigan, Charlton, Luton, and Barnsley getting a free three points ahead in the league but Hull doesn't.
Restarting the season could turn into a farce, the season restart will have unexpected events and we cannot void the season then.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 02, 2020, 02:23:13 AM
Quote from: Arthur on June 01, 2020, 07:43:19 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 01, 2020, 07:53:26 AM
An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.
May I ask what you think will happen if we don't attempt to finish the season? Do you hope that we will be promoted automatically as the third-placed team? I think there's almost no chance that this would happen owing to the number of P.L. clubs who would resist relegation on the basis of any non-playing method. Even if a scenario such as you outline scuppers our hopes and we have to go again in September as a Championship club, how would we be worse off than were the season to end here and now?
It may be in Fulham's best interest to restart the season and we may be in the Championship next season if we stop now, but I think restarting the season could produce an unfair result like Leeds and WBA not getting promoted due to an outbreak there. I don't support restarting the season
If we stop now:
Scenario 1: If Leeds and WBA get promoted into a 22 team premier league, then we will probably be fighting for one automatic promotion place and one playoff place with Brentford, Forest, Cardiff, Huddersfield, Stoke and Bristol frankly I like our chances.
Scenario 2: If Leeds, WBA, and Brentford get promoted with Norwich, Aston Villa and Bournemouth get relegated with two automatic promotion places then I still like our chances.
Scenario 3: Leeds, WBA, and Fulham get promoted, which is perfect especially if the wrong teams like Everton get relegated.
If we don't stop now:
We could be a lot worse off if the wrong teams get promoted and the wrong teams get relegated. Fulham and Leeds have outbreaks, so WBA, Brentford, and Preston get promoted, while Everton and West Ham have outbreaks so get relegated. We enter the last season of parachute payments with Everton, West Ham, Leeds, Fulham and Forest in the Championship.
The other scenarios is individual players and individual teams refuse to play or have an outbreak. QPR don't want to play, what if instead they play but lose every game, with Middlesbrough, Wigan, Charlton, Luton, and Barnsley getting a free three points ahead in the league but Hull doesn't.
Restarting the season could turn into a farce, the season restart will have unexpected events and we cannot void the season then.
But this looks like entirely fabricated scenarios to prove your point, when in reality a thousand different scenarios are at least equally likely (almost like any season, where a lot of unforeseen events may happen to one team or another, including illnesses and injuries).
Also, your last point that we cannot void the season if we first try to restart it is of course entirely untrue. The authorities and/or the EFL can change their decision at any time if deemed appropriate given the (exceptional) circumstances.
Personally I also don't like the idea of trying to base my opinion on what would be the theoretical best outcome for FFC, since the only reasons to not try to finish the season should be
i) the safety of the players and staff and others involved, and
ii) the integrity of the league, meaning that if the virus is obviously causing an injustice that is greater than the injustice of voiding the season (which would in itself obviously be extremely unfair to many teams, and fair to no team), then it should be voided. The second alternative would likely apply if teams end up missing big chunks of their squads due to the virus, meaning that the season would "turn into a farce". Early indications from the leagues that have actually restarted suggests that this is not the case though. Even though it is early days, I like those signs more than entirely made up scenarios.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 02, 2020, 02:23:13 AM
Scenario 1: If Leeds and WBA get promoted into a 22 team premier league, then we will probably be fighting for one automatic promotion place and one playoff place with Brentford, Forest, Cardiff, Huddersfield, Stoke and Bristol frankly I like our chances.
Scenario 2: If Leeds, WBA, and Brentford get promoted with Norwich, Aston Villa and Bournemouth get relegated with two automatic promotion places then I still like our chances.
When do you see next season actually being played in these scenarios?
I ask because the concerns you have about resuming this season are going to exist for a loooooong time.
Even in a best case scenario where a vaccine is found in late 2020, there will initially only be enough for the elderly and vulnerable. Which is great, because it means people will stop dying from this disease, but healthy young people, including footballers, will still be catching it and experiencing the milder symptoms they do now. The stage at which the entire global population is vaccinated, if that even occurs, is how far down the line? Say 2 years in a best case scanario?
By then, what will have happened to our squad? Will Fulham even exist, having gone without revenue for so long? Will Mitrovic just stay at Fulham, and keep himself fit, without playing at all and potentially without even getting a salary, whilst football resumes in other leagues around the world? Will Ream and Mcdonald even still be playing, or will they have retired?
How can you "like our chances" when you've no idea what Fulham, or even English professional football, would look like after such a long suspension?
Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 02, 2020, 02:23:13 AM
It may be in Fulham's best interest to restart the season and we may be in the Championship next season if we stop now, but I think restarting the season could produce an unfair result like Leeds and WBA not getting promoted due to an outbreak there. I don't support restarting the season
Thank you for your reply.
As two other forum members have already commented along similar lines to my views on the matter, I shall limit myself to two observations with regard to your main reason (above) for not restarting the season:
i) No club in the Championship has made more noise about its willingness to restart the season than Leeds. Why does it bother you that it could become the victim of an unfair outcome?
ii) A possible scenario that you haven't mentioned, were the season to end now, is that the Premier League clubs decide that not only will there be no relegation but there shall be no promotion either. Clearly, you would deem it unfair for this season to be declared null and void. If it doesn't restart, however, I reckon this outcome has at least as much a chance of happening as your scenario involving Leeds missing out on promotion due to its team being ravaged by coronavirus. (I imagine 'no promotion' is Leeds' worry also, and the reason why the club is so committed to the remaining fixtures being played.)
will the original 2 be back in training now? I'm assuming they had to self-isolate for 7 days
