Friends of Fulham

Believe it or not, Anguissa is rumored to be a target for Real Madrid.

I want him back on our squad.   He's under contract until 2023 and I think Scott Parker likes him.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 02, 2020, 02:21:19 AM
Believe it or not, Anguissa is rumored to be a target for Real Madrid.

I want him back on our squad.   He's under contract until 2023 and I think Scott Parker likes him.

Loaning Anguissa allowed us to loan Reed and Arter, but I didn't think it would be worth it and now think it was a mistake. If we cannot sell Anguissa for a good fee, then we should keep him we need a strong defensive midfield more than other positions.

Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 02, 2020, 02:37:15 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 02, 2020, 02:21:19 AM
Believe it or not, Anguissa is rumored to be a target for Real Madrid.

I want him back on our squad.   He's under contract until 2023 and I think Scott Parker likes him.

Loaning Anguissa allowed us to loan Reed and Arter, but I didn't think it would be worth it and now think it was a mistake. If we cannot sell Anguissa for a good fee, then we should keep him we need a strong defensive midfield more than other positions.

There was a good report of Fulham's finances, I think it was by Fulhamish, in this pod they discussed how important it was to get Seri and Frank out on loan to avoid a problems with FFP.   I understand the basics of FFP but when you start to talk about player value and amortisation, it all become quite baffling and as the expert says is totally arbitrary.   As an example, a players value is created by the clubs hierarchy and depreciates over the years left on his contract !

Does anyone know if he/we have extended the loan for this season, or if he might be back in the squad for the last few games? same with Seri...

I would imagine not likely,but not sure.Be handy if they were options in the squad.

I think all decisions on loans and transfers need to be put on hold until the beginning of August when we will know whether or not we are playing in the Premier League next season.

I'm sure they had an option to buy in the loan clause

Quote from: fulhamben on June 02, 2020, 02:15:56 PM
I'm sure they had an option to buy in the loan clause

The option to buy is dependent on the parent team being willing to sell correct?    Villa can want to purchase all they want.   The Khans decide if he comes back at the end of the loan no?

This isn't his agent trying to inflate his contract is it..? With false rumours?

I haven't kept track of his loan spell. Has he earned the plaudits?

I guess I'm sceptical these days after Seri deal etc but happy to hear if he's improved a lot.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 02, 2020, 05:42:40 PM

Quote from: fulhamben on June 02, 2020, 02:15:56 PM
I'm sure they had an option to buy in the loan clause

The option to buy is dependent on the parent team being willing to sell correct?    Villa can want to purchase all they want.   The Khans decide if he comes back at the end of the loan no?

not according to our official site
Friday 26 July 2019 19:15
The Club can confirm that André-Frank Zambo Anguissa has today joined Villarreal on a season-long loan deal.

The La Liga side will also hold the option of making the transfer a permanent one next summer

Unfortunately no matter how well he played this season, the fee would have already been arranged and There's nothing we can do about it

Quote from: fulhamben on June 02, 2020, 06:46:49 PM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 02, 2020, 05:42:40 PM

Quote from: fulhamben on June 02, 2020, 02:15:56 PM
I'm sure they had an option to buy in the loan clause

The option to buy is dependent on the parent team being willing to sell correct?    Villa can want to purchase all they want.   The Khans decide if he comes back at the end of the loan no?

not according to our official site
Friday 26 July 2019 19:15
The Club can confirm that André-Frank Zambo Anguissa has today joined Villarreal on a season-long loan deal.

The La Liga side will also hold the option of making the transfer a permanent one next summer

Unfortunately no matter how well he played this season, the fee would have already been arranged and There's nothing we can do about it

It's the chance you take. Unfortunately the Seri and Anguissa deals seem to have been cursed with ill fortune throughout.

Quote from: fulhamben on June 02, 2020, 06:46:49 PM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 02, 2020, 05:42:40 PM

Quote from: fulhamben on June 02, 2020, 02:15:56 PM
I'm sure they had an option to buy in the loan clause

The option to buy is dependent on the parent team being willing to sell correct?    Villa can want to purchase all they want.   The Khans decide if he comes back at the end of the loan no?

not according to our official site
Friday 26 July 2019 19:15
The Club can confirm that André-Frank Zambo Anguissa has today joined Villarreal on a season-long loan deal.

The La Liga side will also hold the option of making the transfer a permanent one next summer

Unfortunately no matter how well he played this season, the fee would have already been arranged and There's nothing we can do about it

So, it's dependent upon how expensive the buyout clause is.    Which we'll never know.   If the BO clause is 20 million...or at least enough to get back the initial investment for Anguissa...at least the team will have that money to bring in a replacement if we go back up.

Quote from: Twig on June 02, 2020, 06:51:06 PM

Quote from: fulhamben on June 02, 2020, 06:46:49 PM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 02, 2020, 05:42:40 PM

Quote from: fulhamben on June 02, 2020, 02:15:56 PM
I'm sure they had an option to buy in the loan clause

The option to buy is dependent on the parent team being willing to sell correct?    Villa can want to purchase all they want.   The Khans decide if he comes back at the end of the loan no?

not according to our official site
Friday 26 July 2019 19:15
The Club can confirm that André-Frank Zambo Anguissa has today joined Villarreal on a season-long loan deal.

The La Liga side will also hold the option of making the transfer a permanent one next summer

Unfortunately no matter how well he played this season, the fee would have already been arranged and There's nothing we can do about it

It's the chance you take. Unfortunately the Seri and Anguissa deals seem to have been cursed with ill fortune throughout.

TK has been relatively shrewd of late, and has been prepared to play hardball with the likes of Levi. I also suspect he remains convinced that Anguissa is well worth the £25m we paid for him, if not more. Therefore, I admit this is pure speculation, but I reckon the agreed fee will be very high. Probably about £20m I reckon. I certainly can't see it being lower than his book value (ie I can't see us selling at a loss).

I want Anguissa back.

I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line.   

I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I want Anguissa back. I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line. I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Anguissa is a top player, but way too much was expected of him in the premier league. He realistically took about 16 games playing to adjust to the premier league and then got injured. I think Anguissa, Seri, and Cairney would have been the best midfield in this division especially if Seri isn't required to play 90 minutes. Personally, I thought Seri played well in most of the games where we had more than 50% possesion, but no doubt Seri runs out of juice when he defends for more than 45 minutes.

Tony Khan gets a lot of criticism for the players he bought from Ligue 1, but I think uninjured they are decent Championship Players. People refuse to say it but the worst investments last season were the ones with premier league experience TFM, Mawson (due to injury), Norviennt, Lazar and Schrulle.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I want Anguissa back.

I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line.   

I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Agree, I think he is our best midfielder - a different level to Arter / Reed

Villareal have an option to make the deal permanent. Anybody got any idea whether or not they would have some sort of agreement in place with Anguissa in advance that means that they simply exercise the option and he signs, or do they exercise the option and then have to agree personal terms etc.?

Given the impact of COVID-19 on football revenues this season I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of loaned players with "options" in their transfer are returned to sender in the first instance. It may well be we agreements are honoured but you'd be mad to at least not try and negotiate a lower fee.

With a Fulham hat on it would be very interesting to see our approach to both transfers and sales should the FFP rules be relaxed, as they surely must be, in the coming season(s).

Its a pity these days if a player doesnt fancy playing for the club that owns them they dont have to

Has there been any clarity on what will happen to all the loans as of the end of June?
Could some return to their owners when contract expire or will all of them all be extended to end of seaon? altough i'm not sure its possible for the clubs that own the players to register them at tshi stage, so they may be happy to extend the loans...

Quote from: Penfold on June 17, 2020, 12:54:27 PM
Villareal have an option to make the deal permanent. Anybody got any idea whether or not they would have some sort of agreement in place with Anguissa in advance that means that they simply exercise the option and he signs, or do they exercise the option and then have to agree personal terms etc.?

Why haven't they done it yet?   We signed Cav when we knew we wanted him.

QuoteAnguissa played yesterday almost exactly how I would want him to play, how anyone who saw him before he came to Villarreal would expect him to play, he%u2019s just not a defensive midfielder.

A good breakdown of the game yesterday (https://www.villarrealusa.com/2020/6/17/21294029/villarreal-vs-mallorca-post-match-midfield-santi-cazorla-trigueros-iborra-chukwueze-zambo).  Good mention of Anguissa.   Author agrees with my opinion that Anguissa isn't a true CDM.    (neither was Seri to be fair)

We'd need to invest 25 million + for another midfielder whose main focus is protecting the back 4.

QuoteDepends on whether or not Fulham get promoted. They are third in the Championship right now. If they get promoted they%u2019ll want to use Zambo unless they get his full 25m fee. If they don%u2019t get promoted, maybe they want another loan for him or want to just get what they can, who knows. For 25m, Zambo is a good deal for teams that operate with English Premier League money. We don%u2019t. We need a six, Zambo is a (splendid) 8, and unless that fee gets at least halved there%u2019s just no way we can pay to have him permanently.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 05:16:25 PM

Quote from: Penfold on June 17, 2020, 12:54:27 PM
Villareal have an option to make the deal permanent. Anybody got any idea whether or not they would have some sort of agreement in place with Anguissa in advance that means that they simply exercise the option and he signs, or do they exercise the option and then have to agree personal terms etc.?

Why haven't they done it yet?   We signed Cav when we knew we wanted him.

QuoteAnguissa played yesterday almost exactly how I would want him to play, how anyone who saw him before he came to Villarreal would expect him to play, he%u2019s just not a defensive midfielder.

A good breakdown of the game yesterday (https://www.villarrealusa.com/2020/6/17/21294029/villarreal-vs-mallorca-post-match-midfield-santi-cazorla-trigueros-iborra-chukwueze-zambo).  Good mention of Anguissa.   Author agrees with my opinion that Anguissa isn't a true CDM.    (neither was Seri to be fair)

We'd need to invest 25 million + for another midfielder whose main focus is protecting the back 4.

QuoteDepends on whether or not Fulham get promoted. They are third in the Championship right now. If they get promoted they%u2019ll want to use Zambo unless they get his full 25m fee. If they don%u2019t get promoted, maybe they want another loan for him or want to just get what they can, who knows. For 25m, Zambo is a good deal for teams that operate with English Premier League money. We don%u2019t. We need a six, Zambo is a (splendid) 8, and unless that fee gets at least halved there%u2019s just no way we can pay to have him permanently.

With regard to why have they not exercised the option, maybe it is because they don't have to at present? Maybe to do with accounting. Maybe they won't bother.

Just have to wait and see.

Quote from: @jolslover on June 17, 2020, 09:03:35 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I want Anguissa back.

I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line.   

I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Agree, I think he is our best midfielder - a different level to Arter / Reed

It's all about opinions Jols.
To me he was not aggressive or committed enough.
Also I can't errase the images of him just trotting back when we were being attacked, with just a bit more effort could have got a challenge of block in.

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 18, 2020, 10:55:21 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 17, 2020, 09:03:35 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I want Anguissa back.

I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line.   

I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Agree, I think he is our best midfielder - a different level to Arter / Reed

It's all about opinions Jols.
To me he was not aggressive or committed enough.
Also I can't errase the images of him just trotting back when we were being attacked, with just a bit more effort could have got a challenge of block in.

I agree again with you Jim's Dentist, Anguissa was a pussycat compared to the other two, no commitment no heart or passion and his body language stunk. Always punched below his weight. He was with other signings the reason why the dressing room was fractured from the start. Glad to have seen the back of him.

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 12:31:06 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 18, 2020, 10:55:21 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 17, 2020, 09:03:35 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I want Anguissa back.I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line. I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Agree, I think he is our best midfielder - a different level to Arter / Reed

It's all about opinions Jols.
To me he was not aggressive or committed enough.
Also I can't errase the images of him just trotting back when we were being attacked, with just a bit more effort could have got a challenge of block in.

I agree again with you Jim's Dentist, Anguissa was a pussycat compared to the other two, no commitment no heart or passion and his body language stunk. Always punched below his weight. He was with other signings the reason why the dressing room was fractured from the start. Glad to have seen the back of him.

I personally think the fractured dressing room was the promoted squad's fault, as the new players would have wanted to be part of the team but the existing players probably wanted the new players on the sidelines. After the first 4-5 games, there is no doubt Anguissa, Seri and Schrulle's heads were down, but Anguissa has proven that he can be very determined player in Marseille, later period of Fulham and Villareal.

Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 19, 2020, 02:00:20 AM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 12:31:06 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 18, 2020, 10:55:21 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 17, 2020, 09:03:35 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I want Anguissa back.I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line. I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Agree, I think he is our best midfielder - a different level to Arter / Reed

It's all about opinions Jols.
To me he was not aggressive or committed enough.
Also I can't errase the images of him just trotting back when we were being attacked, with just a bit more effort could have got a challenge of block in.

I agree again with you Jim's Dentist, Anguissa was a pussycat compared to the other two, no commitment no heart or passion and his body language stunk. Always punched below his weight. He was with other signings the reason why the dressing room was fractured from the start. Glad to have seen the back of him.

I personally think the fractured dressing room was the promoted squad's fault, as the new players would have wanted to be part of the team but the existing players probably wanted the new players on the sidelines. After the first 4-5 games, there is no doubt Anguissa, Seri and Schrulle's heads were down, but Anguissa has proven that he can be very determined player in Marseille, later period of Fulham and Villareal.

Lol, Schurrle's head was never up.

The basic requirements for a Fulham players are to have fire in their bellies, to defend stoutly and attack with determination.  Prima donnas – Ruiz, Berbatov, Schurrie, Anguissa, Seri and Marsh/Best need not apply.  The coach can sort the rest out.  We are always going to be up against it in the Premier League but if able to fight harder than the opposition results will come.

Sheffield United have shown how to retain premier status in a first season. Bournemouth, Watford and Brighton have shown how to remain there.  It was not so long ago that a team of journeymen (albeit talented) with the right attitude reached a European final.

Spend on the right sort of players.

That's unfair on Best I feel. Whenever I saw him he was always putting the effort in - however unfit he might have been!

Read the thread title as "Anguissa loan statue" as a veiled dig at Ibrahima Cisse.

Quote from: os5889 mkII on June 19, 2020, 11:47:58 AM
Read the thread title as "Anguissa loan statue" as a veiled dig at Ibrahima Cisse.

That's worth another thread. We were linked with him in a couple of windows prior to signing but then no coach rated him much. Think that must've been a case of ticking the stats boxes.

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 01:00:57 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 19, 2020, 02:00:20 AM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 12:31:06 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 18, 2020, 10:55:21 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 17, 2020, 09:03:35 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I want Anguissa back.I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line. I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Agree, I think he is our best midfielder - a different level to Arter / Reed

It's all about opinions Jols.
To me he was not aggressive or committed enough.
Also I can't errase the images of him just trotting back when we were being attacked, with just a bit more effort could have got a challenge of block in.

I agree again with you Jim's Dentist, Anguissa was a pussycat compared to the other two, no commitment no heart or passion and his body language stunk. Always punched below his weight. He was with other signings the reason why the dressing room was fractured from the start. Glad to have seen the back of him.

I personally think the fractured dressing room was the promoted squad's fault, as the new players would have wanted to be part of the team but the existing players probably wanted the new players on the sidelines. After the first 4-5 games, there is no doubt Anguissa, Seri and Schrulle's heads were down, but Anguissa has proven that he can be very determined player in Marseille, later period of Fulham and Villareal.

Well if you were a player who had just run through a brick wall to get Fulham promoted and then watch big time charlie's like Schurrle etc walk in who may have shown the wrong attitude whether it be at training or in the dressing room, because they certainly showed no commitment or passion or workrate or effort on the field of play to play within the framework of the team. One of the keepers could not even speak English. That was another poor judgement by the Crack Recruitment Unit.
I would be very very cheesed off if I was a current player and saw this happening, not good for team spirit, and this was magnified by ill judged recruiting and further magnified by how late they were and the lack of preseason preparation. 
As for Anguissa he may look more impressive in another Country where you don't have to get your shorts dirty, but he did not cut it in England because he did not really want to be here, the football was too intense and even the cut he got from his transfer fee was still not enough for him to show commitment to his employers. Even though the club needed to take his salary off the wage bill. He could not wait to jump ship.
We don't need high maintenance players like Zambo or Schurrie etc, completely destroys team spirit and a nightmare for a manager who probably did not have them on his wanted list, and was chosen by the owners son via a computers stats, not very bright. 

Question - if the spanish league finshed before the end of the season for us, and Anguissa's loan is finished, does he come back to the club and become eligible to play for the rest of our games, or is he not registered as our player and therefore unable to play?

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 01:00:57 PM

As for Anguissa he may look more impressive in another Country where you don't have to get your shorts dirty

I love the fact that people think that other leagues are a piece of cake compared to whatever one we're in. Spain's top league, team for team, would probably take our bottom half to the cleaners. And I'm not sure you've watched Athletico play in the last few years, they make the Crazy Gang look like a church choir.

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 01:00:57 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 19, 2020, 02:00:20 AM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 12:31:06 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 18, 2020, 10:55:21 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 17, 2020, 09:03:35 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I want Anguissa back.I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line. I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Agree, I think he is our best midfielder - a different level to Arter / Reed

It's all about opinions Jols.
To me he was not aggressive or committed enough.
Also I can't errase the images of him just trotting back when we were being attacked, with just a bit more effort could have got a challenge of block in.

I agree again with you Jim's Dentist, Anguissa was a pussycat compared to the other two, no commitment no heart or passion and his body language stunk. Always punched below his weight. He was with other signings the reason why the dressing room was fractured from the start. Glad to have seen the back of him.

I personally think the fractured dressing room was the promoted squad's fault, as the new players would have wanted to be part of the team but the existing players probably wanted the new players on the sidelines. After the first 4-5 games, there is no doubt Anguissa, Seri and Schrulle's heads were down, but Anguissa has proven that he can be very determined player in Marseille, later period of Fulham and Villareal.

Well if you were a player who had just run through a brick wall to get Fulham promoted and then watch big time charlie's like Schurrle etc walk in who showed may have shown the wrong attitude whether it be at training or in the dressing room, because they certainly showed no commitment or passion or workrate or effort on the field of play to play within the framework of the team. One of the keepers could even speak English. That was another poor judgement by the Crack Recruitment Unit.
I would be very very cheesed off if I was a current player and saw this happening, not good for team spirit, and this was magnified by ill judged recruiting and further magnified by how late they were and the lack of preseason preparation. 
As for Anguissa he may look more impressive in another Country where you don't have to get your shorts dirty, but he did not cut it in England because he did not really want to be here, the football was too intense and even the cut he got from his transfer fee was still not enough for him to show commitment to his employers. Even though the club needed to take his salary off the wage bill. He could wait to jump ship.
We don't need high maintenance players like Zambo or Schurrie etc, completely destroys team spirit and a nightmare for a manager who probably did not have them on his wanted list, and was chosen by the owners son via a computers stats, not very bright.

Will you concede that Scott Parker does in fact rate Zambo?   

You're making a lot of assumptions about team chemistry based on nothing but poor performance on the pitch.   It doesn't mean he or even Seri led to poor chemistry, regardless of Tim Ream's comments.

Is he a perfect EFFORT player?  Heck no.  I've seen him walk around on La Liga's pitches as well.   What he's missing are better teammates that can cover for his specific weaknesses.  He's still a very good on the ball footballer.

You can't have Seri and Anguissa in the same midfield (unless you plan on winning a lot of 4-3 games).

Hopefully, if Anguissa does come back they can supplement him with a work horse, tall, good ball in the air CDM.    I personally think he can shine.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 19, 2020, 04:34:12 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 01:00:57 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 19, 2020, 02:00:20 AM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 12:31:06 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 18, 2020, 10:55:21 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 17, 2020, 09:03:35 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I want Anguissa back.I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line. I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Agree, I think he is our best midfielder - a different level to Arter / Reed

It's all about opinions Jols.
To me he was not aggressive or committed enough.
Also I can't errase the images of him just trotting back when we were being attacked, with just a bit more effort could have got a challenge of block in.

I agree again with you Jim's Dentist, Anguissa was a pussycat compared to the other two, no commitment no heart or passion and his body language stunk. Always punched below his weight. He was with other signings the reason why the dressing room was fractured from the start. Glad to have seen the back of him.

I personally think the fractured dressing room was the promoted squad's fault, as the new players would have wanted to be part of the team but the existing players probably wanted the new players on the sidelines. After the first 4-5 games, there is no doubt Anguissa, Seri and Schrulle's heads were down, but Anguissa has proven that he can be very determined player in Marseille, later period of Fulham and Villareal.

Well if you were a player who had just run through a brick wall to get Fulham promoted and then watch big time charlie's like Schurrle etc walk in who showed may have shown the wrong attitude whether it be at training or in the dressing room, because they certainly showed no commitment or passion or workrate or effort on the field of play to play within the framework of the team. One of the keepers could even speak English. That was another poor judgement by the Crack Recruitment Unit.
I would be very very cheesed off if I was a current player and saw this happening, not good for team spirit, and this was magnified by ill judged recruiting and further magnified by how late they were and the lack of preseason preparation. 
As for Anguissa he may look more impressive in another Country where you don't have to get your shorts dirty, but he did not cut it in England because he did not really want to be here, the football was too intense and even the cut he got from his transfer fee was still not enough for him to show commitment to his employers. Even though the club needed to take his salary off the wage bill. He could wait to jump ship.
We don't need high maintenance players like Zambo or Schurrie etc, completely destroys team spirit and a nightmare for a manager who probably did not have them on his wanted list, and was chosen by the owners son via a computers stats, not very bright.

Will you concede that Scott Parker does in fact rate Zambo?   

You're making a lot of assumptions about team chemistry based on nothing but poor performance on the pitch.   It doesn't mean he or even Seri led to poor chemistry, regardless of Tim Ream's comments.

Is he a perfect EFFORT player?  Heck no.  I've seen him walk around on La Liga's pitches as well.   What he's missing are better teammates that can cover for his specific weaknesses.  He's still a very good on the ball footballer.

You can't have Seri and Anguissa in the same midfield (unless you plan on winning a lot of 4-3 games).

Hopefully, if Anguissa does come back they can supplement him with a work horse, tall, good ball in the air CDM.    I personally think he can shine.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 19, 2020, 04:34:12 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 01:00:57 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 19, 2020, 02:00:20 AM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 12:31:06 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 18, 2020, 10:55:21 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 17, 2020, 09:03:35 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I want Anguissa back.I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line. I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Agree, I think he is our best midfielder - a different level to Arter / Reed

It's all about opinions Jols.
To me he was not aggressive or committed enough.
Also I can't errase the images of him just trotting back when we were being attacked, with just a bit more effort could have got a challenge of block in.

I agree again with you Jim's Dentist, Anguissa was a pussycat compared to the other two, no commitment no heart or passion and his body language stunk. Always punched below his weight. He was with other signings the reason why the dressing room was fractured from the start. Glad to have seen the back of him.

I personally think the fractured dressing room was the promoted squad's fault, as the new players would have wanted to be part of the team but the existing players probably wanted the new players on the sidelines. After the first 4-5 games, there is no doubt Anguissa, Seri and Schrulle's heads were down, but Anguissa has proven that he can be very determined player in Marseille, later period of Fulham and Villareal.

Well if you were a player who had just run through a brick wall to get Fulham promoted and then watch big time charlie's like Schurrle etc walk in who showed may have shown the wrong attitude whether it be at training or in the dressing room, because they certainly showed no commitment or passion or workrate or effort on the field of play to play within the framework of the team. One of the keepers could even speak English. That was another poor judgement by the Crack Recruitment Unit.
I would be very very cheesed off if I was a current player and saw this happening, not good for team spirit, and this was magnified by ill judged recruiting and further magnified by how late they were and the lack of preseason preparation. 
As for Anguissa he may look more impressive in another Country where you don't have to get your shorts dirty, but he did not cut it in England because he did not really want to be here, the football was too intense and even the cut he got from his transfer fee was still not enough for him to show commitment to his employers. Even though the club needed to take his salary off the wage bill. He could wait to jump ship.
We don't need high maintenance players like Zambo or Schurrie etc, completely destroys team spirit and a nightmare for a manager who probably did not have them on his wanted list, and was chosen by the owners son via a computers stats, not very bright.

Will you concede that Scott Parker does in fact rate Zambo?   

You're making a lot of assumptions about team chemistry based on nothing but poor performance on the pitch.   It doesn't mean he or even Seri led to poor chemistry, regardless of Tim Ream's comments.

Is he a perfect EFFORT player?  Heck no.  I've seen him walk around on La Liga's pitches as well.   What he's missing are better teammates that can cover for his specific weaknesses.  He's still a very good on the ball footballer.

You can't have Seri and Anguissa in the same midfield (unless you plan on winning a lot of 4-3 games).

Hopefully, if Anguissa does come back they can supplement him with a work horse, tall, good ball in the air CDM.    I personally think he can shine.

Well if I had to pick a team to save my life he would not be in it, and I would continue to live to a ripe old age.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 19, 2020, 04:34:12 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 01:00:57 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 19, 2020, 02:00:20 AM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 12:31:06 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 18, 2020, 10:55:21 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 17, 2020, 09:03:35 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I want Anguissa back.I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line. I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Agree, I think he is our best midfielder - a different level to Arter / Reed

It's all about opinions Jols.
To me he was not aggressive or committed enough.
Also I can't errase the images of him just trotting back when we were being attacked, with just a bit more effort could have got a challenge of block in.

I agree again with you Jim's Dentist, Anguissa was a pussycat compared to the other two, no commitment no heart or passion and his body language stunk. Always punched below his weight. He was with other signings the reason why the dressing room was fractured from the start. Glad to have seen the back of him.

I personally think the fractured dressing room was the promoted squad's fault, as the new players would have wanted to be part of the team but the existing players probably wanted the new players on the sidelines. After the first 4-5 games, there is no doubt Anguissa, Seri and Schrulle's heads were down, but Anguissa has proven that he can be very determined player in Marseille, later period of Fulham and Villareal.

Well if you were a player who had just run through a brick wall to get Fulham promoted and then watch big time charlie's like Schurrle etc walk in who showed may have shown the wrong attitude whether it be at training or in the dressing room, because they certainly showed no commitment or passion or workrate or effort on the field of play to play within the framework of the team. One of the keepers could even speak English. That was another poor judgement by the Crack Recruitment Unit.
I would be very very cheesed off if I was a current player and saw this happening, not good for team spirit, and this was magnified by ill judged recruiting and further magnified by how late they were and the lack of preseason preparation. 
As for Anguissa he may look more impressive in another Country where you don't have to get your shorts dirty, but he did not cut it in England because he did not really want to be here, the football was too intense and even the cut he got from his transfer fee was still not enough for him to show commitment to his employers. Even though the club needed to take his salary off the wage bill. He could wait to jump ship.
We don't need high maintenance players like Zambo or Schurrie etc, completely destroys team spirit and a nightmare for a manager who probably did not have them on his wanted list, and was chosen by the owners son via a computers stats, not very bright.

Will you concede that Scott Parker does in fact rate Zambo?   

You're making a lot of assumptions about team chemistry based on nothing but poor performance on the pitch.   It doesn't mean he or even Seri led to poor chemistry, regardless of Tim Ream's comments.

Is he a perfect EFFORT player?  Heck no.  I've seen him walk around on La Liga's pitches as well.   What he's missing are better teammates that can cover for his specific weaknesses.  He's still a very good on the ball footballer.

You can't have Seri and Anguissa in the same midfield (unless you plan on winning a lot of 4-3 games).

Hopefully, if Anguissa does come back they can supplement him with a work horse, tall, good ball in the air CDM.    I personally think he can shine.

If I agreed with you we would both be wrong.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 19, 2020, 04:34:12 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 01:00:57 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 19, 2020, 02:00:20 AM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 12:31:06 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 18, 2020, 10:55:21 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 17, 2020, 09:03:35 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I want Anguissa back.I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line. I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Agree, I think he is our best midfielder - a different level to Arter / Reed

It's all about opinions Jols.
To me he was not aggressive or committed enough.
Also I can't errase the images of him just trotting back when we were being attacked, with just a bit more effort could have got a challenge of block in.

I agree again with you Jim's Dentist, Anguissa was a pussycat compared to the other two, no commitment no heart or passion and his body language stunk. Always punched below his weight. He was with other signings the reason why the dressing room was fractured from the start. Glad to have seen the back of him.

I personally think the fractured dressing room was the promoted squad's fault, as the new players would have wanted to be part of the team but the existing players probably wanted the new players on the sidelines. After the first 4-5 games, there is no doubt Anguissa, Seri and Schrulle's heads were down, but Anguissa has proven that he can be very determined player in Marseille, later period of Fulham and Villareal.

Well if you were a player who had just run through a brick wall to get Fulham promoted and then watch big time charlie's like Schurrle etc walk in who showed may have shown the wrong attitude whether it be at training or in the dressing room, because they certainly showed no commitment or passion or workrate or effort on the field of play to play within the framework of the team. One of the keepers could even speak English. That was another poor judgement by the Crack Recruitment Unit.
I would be very very cheesed off if I was a current player and saw this happening, not good for team spirit, and this was magnified by ill judged recruiting and further magnified by how late they were and the lack of preseason preparation. 
As for Anguissa he may look more impressive in another Country where you don't have to get your shorts dirty, but he did not cut it in England because he did not really want to be here, the football was too intense and even the cut he got from his transfer fee was still not enough for him to show commitment to his employers. Even though the club needed to take his salary off the wage bill. He could wait to jump ship.
We don't need high maintenance players like Zambo or Schurrie etc, completely destroys team spirit and a nightmare for a manager who probably did not have them on his wanted list, and was chosen by the owners son via a computers stats, not very bright.

Will you concede that Scott Parker does in fact rate Zambo?   

You're making a lot of assumptions about team chemistry based on nothing but poor performance on the pitch.   It doesn't mean he or even Seri led to poor chemistry, regardless of Tim Ream's comments.

Is he a perfect EFFORT player?  Heck no.  I've seen him walk around on La Liga's pitches as well.   What he's missing are better teammates that can cover for his specific weaknesses.  He's still a very good on the ball footballer.

You can't have Seri and Anguissa in the same midfield (unless you plan on winning a lot of 4-3 games).

Hopefully, if Anguissa does come back they can supplement him with a work horse, tall, good ball in the air CDM.    I personally think he can shine.

But do we know if SP does really rate him?

Maybe he does. But if he doesn't he's not going to say so is he?

If Fulham were to be looking to move him on permantly (and I'm not saying we are) the coach is not going to come out and say he's pony is he?

Quote from: Jim© on June 19, 2020, 04:24:54 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 01:00:57 PM

As for Anguissa he may look more impressive in another Country where you don't have to get your shorts dirty

I love the fact that people think that other leagues are a piece of cake compared to whatever one we're in. Spain's top league, team for team, would probably take our bottom half to the cleaners. And I'm not sure you've watched Athletico play in the last few years, they make the Crazy Gang look like a church choir.

A very fair point made about other leagues. I've not seen any La Liga since Sky lost coverage of it but was generally very impressed with the technical level and, as you pointed out, there are some teams who can mix it. Or in Real Madrid's case, Sergio Ramos.

I don't understand 'he did not cut it in England' it took him a while to adapt but under Parker he put in atleast 3 MOTM performances against top 6 clubs and was one of our better players...

Anguissa is an excellent  player. Superior to Arter, Reed, McDonald etc. Sure he may not have shown the passion they have but he's an upgrade in every other aspect. Last season he was still finding his feet at a new team who were struggling to adapt in a new league when he sustained an injury which kept him out for months. He was a young player, new to the Premier League. Maybe given time that passion that some seem to think is a requisite may have shone through. Surprised how unforgiving some supporters are. We were a struggling team from the off. It was never going to be easy for any new player last season. When he came back he showed his qualities with MOM performances. I was disappointed when he was loaned out.

Quote from: Whitestone on June 19, 2020, 10:14:07 PM
Anguissa is an excellent  player. Superior to Arter, Reed, McDonald etc. Sure he may not have shown the passion they have but he's an upgrade in every other aspect. Last season he was still finding his feet at a new team who were struggling to adapt in a new league when he sustained an injury which kept him out for months. He was a young player, new to the Premier League. Maybe given time that passion that some seem to think is a requisite may have shone through. Surprised how unforgiving some supporters are. We were a struggling team from the off. It was never going to be easy for any new player last season. When he came back he showed his qualities with MOM performances. I was disappointed when he was loaned out.

Agree with this.
He did better than Cairney / Sessegnon did in the second half of last season and no one thinks because of 1 bad year those two are poor players. It is hard to judge anyone based on last season.

Quote from: @jolslover on June 19, 2020, 09:31:40 PM
I don't understand 'he did not cut it in England' it took him a while to adapt but under Parker he put in atleast 3 MOTM performances against top 6 clubs and was one of our better players...

I've managed to forget about most of last seasons games lol

I seem to recall him putting in decent displays v Liverpool and Man City but may well be wrong. Couldn't be the Cardiff or Everton games as I skipped them and watched cricket instead.

anguissa was totally awful
he did not put in any effort, played entirely for himself, when he could be bothered, and not for the team
his lack of effort was highlited more than once on MOTD
i absolutely would hate to have him back

players like sendeross all those years ago were poor but tried very hard... others struggled with form in the prem and the bizarre squad and pathetic goalkeepers we brought in, and also the system slav was tring to find but TC and sess put in the effort anguissa just let game after game pass him by. against the big teams he seemed a little more interested but that was compared to a very poor standard he had set himself.

Quote from: ALG01 on June 19, 2020, 11:27:01 PM
anguissa was totally awful
he did not put in any effort, played entirely for himself, when he could be bothered, and not for the team
his lack of effort was highlited more than once on MOTD
i absolutely would hate to have him back

players like sendeross all those years ago were poor but tried very hard... others struggled with form in the prem and the bizarre squad and pathetic goalkeepers we brought in, and also the system slav was tring to find but TC and sess put in the effort anguissa just let game after game pass him by. against the big teams he seemed a little more interested but that was compared to a very poor standard he had set himself.

He got MOTM against City and Liverpool and was our best player on the pitch both games. He wasn't awful for Fulham - he had a hard time adapting to English football but was genuinely one of our better players second half of season (only bettered by Babel and Chambers) - He has now gone to La Liga and has done really well. Completed the second most successful take ons in the whole league
Your opinion is clearly skewed by some sort of personal dislike to him if you would hate to have him back - Not good enough for Fulham but Real Madrid are doing their best to sign him? Right.

Quote from: @jolslover on June 19, 2020, 09:31:40 PM
I don't understand 'he did not cut it in England' it took him a while to adapt but under Parker he put in atleast 3 MOTM performances against top 6 clubs and was one of our better players...

Conditioning.

I thought Anguissa was fine to good in most of the games he's played for us, up until he'd reach that 50th minute mark.

I don't know what it was, but he dropped off a cliff whenever he got tired.    It should in his posture/pace/manerisms more than any other player.    He wasn't in good physical condition to play EPL style football.

I hope he's worked on that.

Quote from: @jolslover on June 19, 2020, 11:48:35 PM

Quote from: ALG01 on June 19, 2020, 11:27:01 PM
anguissa was totally awful
he did not put in any effort, played entirely for himself, when he could be bothered, and not for the team
his lack of effort was highlited more than once on MOTD
i absolutely would hate to have him back

players like sendeross all those years ago were poor but tried very hard... others struggled with form in the prem and the bizarre squad and pathetic goalkeepers we brought in, and also the system slav was tring to find but TC and sess put in the effort anguissa just let game after game pass him by. against the big teams he seemed a little more interested but that was compared to a very poor standard he had set himself.

He got MOTM against City and Liverpool and was our best player on the pitch both games. He wasn't awful for Fulham - he had a hard time adapting to English football but was genuinely one of our better players second half of season (only bettered by Babel and Chambers) - He has now gone to La Liga and has done really well. Completed the second most successful take ons in the whole league
Your opinion is clearly skewed by some sort of personal dislike to him if you would hate to have him back - Not good enough for Fulham but Real Madrid are doing their best to sign him? Right.

Is it a fact Real Madrid are after him? Maybe his agent putting stories in the media. It has been known.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 19, 2020, 04:34:12 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 01:00:57 PM

Quote from: The Rational Fan on June 19, 2020, 02:00:20 AM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 19, 2020, 12:31:06 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 18, 2020, 10:55:21 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 17, 2020, 09:03:35 AM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 17, 2020, 01:49:27 AM
I want Anguissa back.I just watched him on Villarreal today against Mallorca and he's REALLY good on the ball.   I mean, he's probably better on the ball than anyone we currently have playing midfield (including Carney).   He still doesn't have that motor I want in a CDM or a box to box...but he's got very good ball skill, can make a tackle, has decent pace and is tall.

And he's already under contract if we go up.    The problem is, he needs someone better than Seri sitting beside him in the midfield or we'll constantly have people attacking our back line. I'd rather have Anguissa than Onamah, Reed or Archer on the squad, and I mean right now...before we get promotion.  He's simply a better baller.

Agree, I think he is our best midfielder - a different level to Arter / Reed

It's all about opinions Jols.
To me he was not aggressive or committed enough.
Also I can't errase the images of him just trotting back when we were being attacked, with just a bit more effort could have got a challenge of block in.

I agree again with you Jim's Dentist, Anguissa was a pussycat compared to the other two, no commitment no heart or passion and his body language stunk. Always punched below his weight. He was with other signings the reason why the dressing room was fractured from the start. Glad to have seen the back of him.

I personally think the fractured dressing room was the promoted squad's fault, as the new players would have wanted to be part of the team but the existing players probably wanted the new players on the sidelines. After the first 4-5 games, there is no doubt Anguissa, Seri and Schrulle's heads were down, but Anguissa has proven that he can be very determined player in Marseille, later period of Fulham and Villareal.

Well if you were a player who had just run through a brick wall to get Fulham promoted and then watch big time charlie's like Schurrle etc walk in who showed may have shown the wrong attitude whether it be at training or in the dressing room, because they certainly showed no commitment or passion or workrate or effort on the field of play to play within the framework of the team. One of the keepers could even speak English. That was another poor judgement by the Crack Recruitment Unit.
I would be very very cheesed off if I was a current player and saw this happening, not good for team spirit, and this was magnified by ill judged recruiting and further magnified by how late they were and the lack of preseason preparation. 
As for Anguissa he may look more impressive in another Country where you don't have to get your shorts dirty, but he did not cut it in England because he did not really want to be here, the football was too intense and even the cut he got from his transfer fee was still not enough for him to show commitment to his employers. Even though the club needed to take his salary off the wage bill. He could wait to jump ship.
We don't need high maintenance players like Zambo or Schurrie etc, completely destroys team spirit and a nightmare for a manager who probably did not have them on his wanted list, and was chosen by the owners son via a computers stats, not very bright.

Will you concede that Scott Parker does in fact rate Zambo?   

You're making a lot of assumptions about team chemistry based on nothing but poor performance on the pitch.   It doesn't mean he or even Seri led to poor chemistry, regardless of Tim Ream's comments.

Is he a perfect EFFORT player?  Heck no.  I've seen him walk around on La Liga's pitches as well.   What he's missing are better teammates that can cover for his specific weaknesses.  He's still a very good on the ball footballer.

You can't have Seri and Anguissa in the same midfield (unless you plan on winning a lot of 4-3 games).

Hopefully, if Anguissa does come back they can supplement him with a work horse, tall, good ball in the air CDM.    I personally think he can shine.

Isn't that pretty much what TK thought he was buying?
"If we can supplement him with"?   Given the money he cost he shouldn't need supplementing with an additional purchase to make him look better.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 19, 2020, 11:55:01 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 19, 2020, 09:31:40 PM
I don't understand 'he did not cut it in England' it took him a while to adapt but under Parker he put in atleast 3 MOTM performances against top 6 clubs and was one of our better players...

Conditioning.

I thought Anguissa was fine to good in most of the games he's played for us, up until he'd reach that 50th minute mark.

I don't know what it was, but he dropped off a cliff whenever he got tired.    It should in his posture/pace/manerisms more than any other player.    He wasn't in good physical condition to play EPL style football.

I hope he's worked on that.

So above and in other earlier posts on this thread you have acknowledged his various shortcomings, yet you still want him and his high wages back at our club?
There does not seem to be any football or financial rationale to you wanting him back.

Anguissa and his ilk are the kind of players who will not contribute to team spirit whilst playing for Fulham and  are an expensive mistake. Fulham make too many errors in their recruitment for comfort due to the mediocre recruitment unit, and we end up with a lot of dead wood and expensive unfit players who couldn't give a monkeys, certainly not enough commitment to worry whether we get promoted or not. Brentford have shown that throwing your fathers money around does not guarantee anything unless you find the right players, which they do a lot cheaper. As do Sheffield United to name just two, and they also appear to have provided a better team ethic and resilience.
Fulham have a lot of players who can do the same for the club, but there are not quite enough and Tom Cairney as Captain does not help at all. It's the little things that can turn out to be big issues if not addressed, and in my humble opinion we do not have the best team/squad in the Division by any stretch of the imagination, just ask Barnsley because in two games and over 180 minutes we failed to score one goal yet conceded 4 and never looked like winning either game. 
So I think we need to stop deluding ourselves thinking that we have the talent and the characters and the conditioning and the genuine desire as a team to move up to the next level.
To give ourselves the best chance to qualify whether it is by automatic or playoff is to raise the tempo and work a dam sight harder from the back to the front with a higher intensity as we have the ammunition as an attacking team to damage opponents in their third of the play.
But defensively especially in the last 20 minutes we get ragged, lose our shape at the back, and we fail to restore the balance and depth in defence.
There has to be more running off the ball to support the man on the ball as well as creating space for others. But to do that regularly we have to be fitter and sharper and a little more direct by keeping play in the opponents half and cut out the obsession with playing out from the back as though we are doing it by numbers. We are not the finished article, a team has to hunt not be hunted. We cannot just rely on playing pretty to win games, there are no roses without thorns. 
Personally I M O I do not think we are good enough or capable of gaining promotion on this occasion whether it is automatic or play off, as we have too many short comings.
Having said that I hope I am wrong and I will keep hoping until it is mathematically impossible. There is still surgery to be done which may come too late to secure a promotion place for Fulham.

Anguissa did not impress me last year at FFC. He seems to be having a good season in La Liga. I wonder if his style of play is better suited to Spain than England.

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 21, 2020, 11:28:06 PM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 19, 2020, 11:55:01 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 19, 2020, 09:31:40 PM
I don't understand 'he did not cut it in England' it took him a while to adapt but under Parker he put in atleast 3 MOTM performances against top 6 clubs and was one of our better players...

Conditioning.

I thought Anguissa was fine to good in most of the games he's played for us, up until he'd reach that 50th minute mark.

I don't know what it was, but he dropped off a cliff whenever he got tired.    It should in his posture/pace/manerisms more than any other player.    He wasn't in good physical condition to play EPL style football.

I hope he's worked on that.

So above and in other earlier posts on this thread you have acknowledged his various shortcomings, yet you still want him and his high wages back at our club?
There does not seem to be any football or financial rationale to you wanting him back.

Replace him with who? He's still under contract and a talented, yet limited midfielder.

The football reason is he's a better midfielder than Cairney, Stefjo, Onomah and Arter.  imo.



Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 22, 2020, 02:21:14 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 21, 2020, 11:28:06 PM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 19, 2020, 11:55:01 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 19, 2020, 09:31:40 PM
I don't understand 'he did not cut it in England' it took him a while to adapt but under Parker he put in atleast 3 MOTM performances against top 6 clubs and was one of our better players...

Conditioning. I thought Anguissa was fine to good in most of the games he's played for us, up until he'd reach that 50th minute mark. I don't know what it was, but he dropped off a cliff whenever he got tired.    It should in his posture/pace/manerisms more than any other player.    He wasn't in good physical condition to play EPL style football.

I hope he's worked on that.

So above and in other earlier posts on this thread you have acknowledged his various shortcomings, yet you still want him and his high wages back at our club?
There does not seem to be any football or financial rationale to you wanting him back.

Replace him with who? He's still under contract and a talented, yet limited midfielder.

The football reason is he's a better midfielder than Cairney, Stefjo, Onomah and Arter.  imo.

We didn't save much wages in midfield by getting players out - according to football manager numbers.

£77k for "Arter +  Reed + KMac" vs £82k for "Anguissa + Cissé + Edun" - £5k per week savings
£60k for "Reid + Onomah" vs £67k for "Séri + Ayité " - £7k per week savings
£25k for half season of "Kongolo" vs £3k for "Steven Sessegnon -  £11k per week additional cost average over a season

Same Wages
£152k per week for Anguissa, Cisse, Edun, Seri, Ayité and S.Sess
£152k per week for Arter, Reed, KMac, Reid, Onamah and half season of Kongolo

I think the former combination would have started the season and developed chemistry earlier.

Anguissa never once played a full 90 mins, never played a full game, never finished a game he started, 10/10 for being a very expensive passenger.

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 23, 2020, 09:42:30 PM
Anguissa never once played a full 90 mins, never played a full game, never finished a game he started, 10/10 for being a very expensive passenger.

He played the full 90 versus Liverpool (H), Everton (A), Man City (A) Caribo Cup, Huddersfield (A), Southampton (A), Man City (H), Watford (A), Cardiff (H), Newcastle (A)

He started every game SP was in charge

Quote from: sunburywhite on June 23, 2020, 10:05:32 PM

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 23, 2020, 09:42:30 PM
Anguissa never once played a full 90 mins, never played a full game, never finished a game he started, 10/10 for being a very expensive passenger.

He played the full 90 versus Liverpool (H), Everton (A), Man City (A) Caribo Cup, Huddersfield (A), Southampton (A), Man City (H), Watford (A), Cardiff (H), Newcastle (A)

He started every game SP was in charge

ahahah

Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on June 23, 2020, 09:42:30 PM
Anguissa never once played a full 90 mins, never played a full game, never finished a game he started, 10/10 for being a very expensive passenger.

Appreciate we're not going to agree but this guys a quality player IMO. Never give a chance by some fans.

Frank really showed us what he was about at the tail end of last season when he was finally fit and probably a bit more settled in the UK.

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 22, 2020, 02:21:14 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 21, 2020, 11:28:06 PM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 19, 2020, 11:55:01 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 19, 2020, 09:31:40 PM
I don't understand 'he did not cut it in England' it took him a while to adapt but under Parker he put in atleast 3 MOTM performances against top 6 clubs and was one of our better players...

Conditioning.

I thought Anguissa was fine to good in most of the games he's played for us, up until he'd reach that 50th minute mark.

I don't know what it was, but he dropped off a cliff whenever he got tired.    It should in his posture/pace/manerisms more than any other player.    He wasn't in good physical condition to play EPL style football.

I hope he's worked on that.

So above and in other earlier posts on this thread you have acknowledged his various shortcomings, yet you still want him and his high wages back at our club?
There does not seem to be any football or financial rationale to you wanting him back.

Replace him with who? He's still under contract and a talented, yet limited midfielder.

The football reason is he's a better midfielder than Cairney, Stefjo, Onomah and Arter.  imo.



Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk

Glad to see that you recognise him as  being limited (I wish TK had realised this when paying his fee and wages). He certainly showed his effort was limited when it came to backtracking after an attack had broken down.
As for being better in m/f than those you mentioned, the last two possibly.
However he is not fit to lace the boots of Harrion Reed.

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 28, 2020, 10:16:38 PM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 22, 2020, 02:21:14 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 21, 2020, 11:28:06 PM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 19, 2020, 11:55:01 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 19, 2020, 09:31:40 PM
I don't understand 'he did not cut it in England' it took him a while to adapt but under Parker he put in atleast 3 MOTM performances against top 6 clubs and was one of our better players...

Conditioning.

I thought Anguissa was fine to good in most of the games he's played for us, up until he'd reach that 50th minute mark.

I don't know what it was, but he dropped off a cliff whenever he got tired.    It should in his posture/pace/manerisms more than any other player.    He wasn't in good physical condition to play EPL style football.

I hope he's worked on that.

So above and in other earlier posts on this thread you have acknowledged his various shortcomings, yet you still want him and his high wages back at our club?
There does not seem to be any football or financial rationale to you wanting him back.

Replace him with who? He's still under contract and a talented, yet limited midfielder.

The football reason is he's a better midfielder than Cairney, Stefjo, Onomah and Arter.  imo.



Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk

Glad to see that you recognise him as  being limited (I wish TK had realised this when paying his fee and wages). He certainly showed his effort was limited when it came to backtracking after an attack had broken down.
As for being better in m/f than those you mentioned, the last two possibly.
However he is not fit to lace the boots of Harrion Reed.

I guarantee he will have the better career than Harrison Reed- if Harrison Reed is ever valued at above 8m I would be surprised (and I've been a big fan of him last two games) - whereas it wouldn't surprise me if Anguissa plays at champions league level for the rest of his career. At 24 Anguissa has played in a Europa League final and I'm sure Harrison Reed will never reach this level. Not a dig on Harrison Reed (I like him) but to say Anguissa isn't fit to lace his boots is incorrect.

Quote from: @jolslover on June 29, 2020, 08:09:54 AMHello

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 28, 2020, 10:16:38 PM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 22, 2020, 02:21:14 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 21, 2020, 11:28:06 PM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 19, 2020, 11:55:01 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 19, 2020, 09:31:40 PM
I don't understand 'he did not cut it in England' it took him a while to adapt but under Parker he put in atleast 3 MOTM performances against top 6 clubs and was one of our better players...

Conditioning.

I thought Anguissa was fine to good in most of the games he's played for us, up until he'd reach that 50th minute mark.

I don't know what it was, but he dropped off a cliff whenever he got tired.    It should in his posture/pace/manerisms more than any other player.    He wasn't in good physical condition to play EPL style football.

I hope he's worked on that.

So above and in other earlier posts on this thread you have acknowledged his various shortcomings, yet you still want him and his high wages back at our club?
There does not seem to be any football or financial rationale to you wanting him back.

Replace him with who? He's still under contract and a talented, yet limited midfielder.

The football reason is he's a better midfielder than Cairney, Stefjo, Onomah and Arter.  imo.



Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk

Glad to see that you recognise him as  being limited (I wish TK had realised this when paying his fee and wages). He certainly showed his effort was limited when it came to backtracking after an attack had broken down.
As for being better in m/f than those you mentioned, the last two possibly.
However he is not fit to lace the boots of Harrion Reed.

I guarantee he will have the better career than Harrison Reed- if Harrison Reed is ever valued at above 8m I would be surprised (and I've been a big fan of him last two games) - whereas it wouldn't surprise me if Anguissa plays at champions league level for the rest of his career. At 24 Anguissa has played in a Europa League final and I'm sure Harrison Reed will never reach this level. Not a dig on Harrison Reed (I like him) but to say Anguissa isn't fit to lace his boots is incorrect.

Hello again Jols.
The boot lacing comment was perhaps not right in terms of overseas football.
However, in the context of our situation, either playing in a Premiership relegation battle, or scrapping for points for a top six Championship finish, I would take Harrison or Chambers every time.

Quote from: Jims Dentist on July 01, 2020, 11:32:25 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 29, 2020, 08:09:54 AMHello

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 28, 2020, 10:16:38 PM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 22, 2020, 02:21:14 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on June 21, 2020, 11:28:06 PM

Quote from: AnOldBrownie on June 19, 2020, 11:55:01 PM

Quote from: @jolslover on June 19, 2020, 09:31:40 PM
I don't understand 'he did not cut it in England' it took him a while to adapt but under Parker he put in atleast 3 MOTM performances against top 6 clubs and was one of our better players...

Conditioning.

I thought Anguissa was fine to good in most of the games he's played for us, up until he'd reach that 50th minute mark.

I don't know what it was, but he dropped off a cliff whenever he got tired.    It should in his posture/pace/manerisms more than any other player.    He wasn't in good physical condition to play EPL style football.

I hope he's worked on that.

So above and in other earlier posts on this thread you have acknowledged his various shortcomings, yet you still want him and his high wages back at our club?
There does not seem to be any football or financial rationale to you wanting him back.

Replace him with who? He's still under contract and a talented, yet limited midfielder.

The football reason is he's a better midfielder than Cairney, Stefjo, Onomah and Arter.  imo.



Sent from my CMR-W19 using Tapatalk

Glad to see that you recognise him as  being limited (I wish TK had realised this when paying his fee and wages). He certainly showed his effort was limited when it came to backtracking after an attack had broken down.
As for being better in m/f than those you mentioned, the last two possibly.
However he is not fit to lace the boots of Harrion Reed.

I guarantee he will have the better career than Harrison Reed- if Harrison Reed is ever valued at above 8m I would be surprised (and I've been a big fan of him last two games) - whereas it wouldn't surprise me if Anguissa plays at champions league level for the rest of his career. At 24 Anguissa has played in a Europa League final and I'm sure Harrison Reed will never reach this level. Not a dig on Harrison Reed (I like him) but to say Anguissa isn't fit to lace his boots is incorrect.

Hello again Jols.
The boot lacing comment was perhaps not right in terms of overseas football.
However, in the context of our situation, either playing in a Premiership relegation battle, or scrapping for points for a top six Championship finish, I would take Harrison or Chambers every time.

In the 15 games, Harrison Reed has played more than 60 minutes we have scored 17 goals and conceded 20 goals.  In the 22 games, Harrison Reed didn't play (or played less than 15 minutes) we have scored 32 goals and conceded 19 goals.

Fulham's performance with Harrison Reed in the team have been poor, this needs to be answered.

Greetings TRF.
As has been written many times, statistics don't tell the full story.
Sorry I've not responded to your post before now.
However in the meantime it would certainly appear that the vast majority of posters seem to now share my high opinion of Harrison, there being a number of threads saying how crucial to us he is.

Not sure how we got into a Harrison Reed vs Anguissa debate.   I like them both for different reasons.  And I want both of them on the squad next season.

Thing is, if promotoed I think we need to sign a midfielder that's better than both of them.   

I think Harrison is a perfect Championship #6.   I think he provides more value than Cav, Knock and Bobby.   I still want Anguissa in our midfield.   He's better overall than Arter or Stefjo as a #8.

Quote from: Jims Dentist on July 09, 2020, 02:23:32 AM
Greetings TRF.
As has been written many times, statistics don't tell the full story.
Sorry I've not responded to your post before now.
However in the meantime it would certainly appear that the vast majority of posters seem to now share my high opinion of Harrison, there being a number of threads saying how crucial to us he is.

I have a high opinion of Mitrovic too, but many posters are asking about our performance with and without him in the team. I am sure, most fans would agree Mitrovic is a top player that is crucial to us, that joined us on an undefeated streak, but after three victories without him, a few losses would get many fans suggesting to bench him even if he performs well.

Harrison Reed looks awesome and its a mystery way his win/loss statistics are poo, but right now his price could be £20m. If he £15m+ to justify that price we need results with him in the team. His win-loss record at every club is poor including at Norwich in 17/18, noticeable he left and they won 40 of 46 games the next season.

Of course, based on his current performance Harrison Reed would play in any Championship side, giving him the chance for a ten-game winning streak to end the debate of win/loss record problem and then we should pay whatever price they ask.

Statistics are useful because they sometimes repeat themselves, and I wouldn't be spending big bucks on a Harrison Reed if the trend continues over the remaining games. Denis Odoi on the other hand has a beautiful win/loss record with statistics that are very kind to him unlike many fans opinion. 

Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 09, 2020, 07:18:01 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on July 09, 2020, 02:23:32 AM
Greetings TRF.
As has been written many times, statistics don't tell the full story.
Sorry I've not responded to your post before now.
However in the meantime it would certainly appear that the vast majority of posters seem to now share my high opinion of Harrison, there being a number of threads saying how crucial to us he is.

I have a high opinion of Mitrovic too, but many posters are asking about our performance with and without him in the team. I am sure, most fans would agree Mitrovic is a top player that is crucial to us, that joined us on an undefeated streak, but after three victories without him, a few losses would get many fans suggesting to bench him even if he performs well.

Harrison Reed looks awesome and its a mystery way his win/loss statistics are poo, but right now his price could be £20m. If he £15m+ to justify that price we need results with him in the team. His win-loss record at every club is poor including at Norwich in 17/18, noticeable he left and they won 40 of 46 games the next season.

Of course, based on his current performance Harrison Reed would play in any Championship side, giving him the chance for a ten-game winning streak to end the debate of win/loss record problem and then we should pay whatever price they ask.

Statistics are useful because they sometimes repeat themselves, and I wouldn't be spending big bucks on a Harrison Reed if the trend continues over the remaining games. Denis Odoi on the other hand has a beautiful win/loss record with statistics that are very kind to him unlike many fans opinion. 

But we have only lost 5 matches out of 22 that Reed has played in for us, I would not say that is a bad thing personally.

Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 09, 2020, 07:18:01 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on July 09, 2020, 02:23:32 AM
Greetings TRF.
As has been written many times, statistics don't tell the full story.
Sorry I've not responded to your post before now.
However in the meantime it would certainly appear that the vast majority of posters seem to now share my high opinion of Harrison, there being a number of threads saying how crucial to us he is.

I have a high opinion of Mitrovic too, but many posters are asking about our performance with and without him in the team. I am sure, most fans would agree Mitrovic is a top player that is crucial to us, that joined us on an undefeated streak, but after three victories without him, a few losses would get many fans suggesting to bench him even if he performs well.

Harrison Reed looks awesome and its a mystery way his win/loss statistics are poo, but right now his price could be £20m. If he £15m+ to justify that price we need results with him in the team. His win-loss record at every club is poor including at Norwich in 17/18, noticeable he left and they won 40 of 46 games the next season.

Of course, based on his current performance Harrison Reed would play in any Championship side, giving him the chance for a ten-game winning streak to end the debate of win/loss record problem and then we should pay whatever price they ask.

Statistics are useful because they sometimes repeat themselves, and I wouldn't be spending big bucks on a Harrison Reed if the trend continues over the remaining games. Denis Odoi on the other hand has a beautiful win/loss record with statistics that are very kind to him unlike many fans opinion. 

TRF, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 09, 2020, 07:18:01 AM

Quote from: Jims Dentist on July 09, 2020, 02:23:32 AM
Greetings TRF.
As has been written many times, statistics don't tell the full story.
Sorry I've not responded to your post before now.
However in the meantime it would certainly appear that the vast majority of posters seem to now share mHiy high opinion of Harrison, there being a number of threads saying how crucial to us he is.

I have a high opinion of Mitrovic too, but many posters are asking about our performance with and without him in the team. I am sure, most fans would agree Mitrovic is a top player that is crucial to us, that joined us on an undefeated streak, but after three victories without him, a few losses would get many fans suggesting to bench him even if he performs well.

Harrison Reed looks awesome and its a mystery way his win/loss statistics are poo, but right now his price could be £20m. If he £15m+ to justify that price we need results with him in the team. His win-loss record at every club is poor including at Norwich in 17/18, noticeable he left and they won 40 of 46 games the next season.

Of course, based on his current performance Harrison Reed would play in any Championship side, giving him the chance for a ten-game winning streak to end the debate of win/loss record problem and then we should pay whatever price they ask.

Statistics are useful because they sometimes repeat themselves, and I wouldn't be spending big bucks on a Harrison Reed if the trend continues over the remaining games. Denis Odoi on the other hand has a beautiful win/loss record with statistics that are very kind to him unlike many fans opinion. 

Hi TRF, good that we finally agree on somethings!
That HR is a very good midfielder (putting stats to one side)
Also an appreciation of what Denis Odoi brings to the team.

Anguissa + Harrison + a 30 million midfield signing would be a good EPL midfield imo.

ManUtd got a player in Bruno Fernandez that's made a world of difference for 30 million.

Anguissa I would like to see now have a chance in the Prem if we get there. He has had a great season in Spain and it's a difficult league. However, I wouldn't sell him just yet.

It is an interesting case and I have recently read similar cases. In general, this topic about the loan is a complicated one, which requires a lot of discussions because it's not that simple everything. Personally, when I wanted to take a loan, I thought well and came to the conclusion that I will not be able to do everything well on my own and I was afraid of regrets over time. For this reason, I turned to Hull Mortgage Advisor (https://www.hullmoneyman.com), who analyzed every detail and came up with the ideal solution for me, which made my life a lot easier.

i dont profess to understand the figures re FFP but how are chelsea and others able to spend 200 million plus and dont seem to come under the same restrictions that are talked about on here . dont make it too complicated but enlighten me please,

Quote from: bobbo on January 23, 2021, 11:27:07 AM
i dont profess to understand the figures re FFP but how are chelsea and others able to spend 200 million plus and dont seem to come under the same restrictions that are talked about on here . dont make it too complicated but enlighten me please,

To put it simply: higher income --> more money to spend.

Quote from: Asotosyios on January 23, 2021, 11:31:32 AM

Quote from: bobbo on January 23, 2021, 11:27:07 AM
i dont profess to understand the figures re FFP but how are chelsea and others able to spend 200 million plus and dont seem to come under the same restrictions that are talked about on here . dont make it too complicated but enlighten me please,

thanks asto, I thought that's the answer but wasn't sure . That still makes it a very unlevel playing ground.

To put it simply: higher income --> more money to spend.