Been thinking that with Rodak, Hector, Reed (if we can sign him), Onomah, Cairney and Mitro we are only one CB short of a terrific spine. Prem survival often depends on a solid spine, so come on TK sign Reed and an experienced CB and I will start to feel a spark of optimism.
Quote from: Twig on August 08, 2020, 10:54:04 PM
Been thinking that with Rodak, Hector, Reed (if we can sign him), Onomah, Cairney and Mitro we are only one CB short of a terrific spine. Prem survival often depends on a solid spine, so come on TK sign Reed and an experienced CB and I will start to feel a spark of optimism.
Yep and yep!
Without meaning to be critical of players who've been heroes for us recently, IMO most of those names will need to be bang in form and/or up their game slightly just to get into the starting XI of a team that's going to finish higher than 18th in the PL
Rodak - OK, particularly given he should continue to improve this season
Hector - again OK, but he'll look bang average in the PL and needs a partner at least as good as he is
Onomah - not sure, at best he'll look bang average on a good day. Nowhere near good enough on a bad day. But his bad days do seem to be behind him now, and again, a relative youngster, so will hopefully continue to step up his game this season
Cairney - to say he looked bang average last time we were in the PL is probably being kind, hence the apparent lack of interest in him after we went down. If we can get some proper quality around him (eg Anguissa and a £30m winger) we may get by with Cairney but we can't rely on him to be our primary creative force at this level IMO
I think that if we are to have any chance of staying up, we need 3 top signings in the positions of central defender and central midfield for the spine and a much better right back so that either Christie or Odoi plays as back-up.
The spine of the team needs strengthening.
If Ollie Norwood can do OK in the Premier League, then so can all of our midfielders if the context is right, as it was for him last season and was in no shape or form for us last time.
Our greater need is finding more goal-threatening support for Mitro. The recruits from last summer had Championship scoring pedigree and largely failed to reproduce it. They lack much of one at Prem level.
Even without defence strengthening (no question desirable) we are set to be less spectacularly leaky this time around, but expecting a series of clean sheets is another matter. A 1-0 defeat earns no more points than a 3-0 one. At least two meaningful additions are needed in this area, the first of which I would make higher priority even than any other mentioned so far above.
Take a look at the fixture list ppl. even before the PL season begins there are 2 international matches the week before. So there is further disruption to pre-season preparations and new players gelling with existing players.
Of the Spine, Rodak, Mitro will be away. Hector could be away if Jamaica are playing. So, I of the mind to keep the spine as it is (Reed included) but add to the other parts RB, LCB, LB (maybe backup to Bryan) , backup GK, backup CF, AM. There is already 4-5-6 new players there, there simply isn't time to integrate more players this preseason.
Quote from: Statto on August 08, 2020, 11:56:13 PM
Without meaning to be critical of players who've been heroes for us recently, IMO most of those names will need to be bang in form and/or up their game slightly just to get into the starting XI of a team that's going to finish higher than 18th in the PL
Rodak - OK, particularly given he should continue to improve this season
Hector - again OK, but he'll look bang average in the PL and needs a partner at least as good as he is
Onomah - not sure, at best he'll look bang average on a good day. Nowhere near good enough on a bad day. But his bad days do seem to be behind him now, and again, a relative youngster, so will hopefully continue to step up his game this season
Cairney - to say he looked bang average last time we were in the PL is probably being kind, hence the apparent lack of interest in him after we went down. If we can get some proper quality around him (eg Anguissa and a £30m winger) we may get by with Cairney but we can't rely on him to be our primary creative force at this level IMO
Hmmm, I think it's a bit different this time around for TC. Last time our CB partnership was weak and we didn't have a strong defensive midfielder. With Hector +1 and Reed (I did say depending on signing Reed), then TC won't be in a team that is constantly under pressure of being overwhelmed. I'd expect to see a different TC in those circumstances but if not then fair enough, I'm over optimistic.
Quote from: b+w geezer on August 09, 2020, 08:30:41 AM
If Ollie Norwood can do OK in the Premier League, then so can all of our midfielders if the context is right, as it was for him last season and was in no shape or form for us last time.
Our greater need is finding more goal-threatening support for Mitro. The recruits from last summer had Championship scoring pedigree and largely failed to reproduce it. They lack much of one at Prem level.
Even without defence strengthening (no question desirable) we are set to be less spectacularly leaky this time around, but expecting a series of clean sheets is another matter. A 1-0 defeat earns no more points than a 3-0 one. At least two meaningful additions are needed in this area, the first of which I would make higher priority even than any other mentioned so far above.
Good post. Not signing Norwood, a total blunder, so shortsighted. This is a bit like 'Lego' getting all the correct pieces to fit. You can fit the pieces any which way, you still get something, it works, but falls short.
Quote from: b+w geezer on August 09, 2020, 08:30:41 AM
If Ollie Norwood can do OK in the Premier League, then so can all of our midfielders if the context is right, as it was for him last season and was in no shape or form for us last time.
Our greater need is finding more goal-threatening support for Mitro. The recruits from last summer had Championship scoring pedigree and largely failed to reproduce it. They lack much of one at Prem level.
Even without defence strengthening (no question desirable) we are set to be less spectacularly leaky this time around, but expecting a series of clean sheets is another matter. A 1-0 defeat earns no more points than a 3-0 one. At least two meaningful additions are needed in this area, the first of which I would make higher priority even than any other mentioned so far above.
Fully agree b+w geezer, our spine is good , to improve any of those positions would cost us a lot of money that would be better spent on a goal scorer. Also we need continuity and Rodak, Hector, Reed, Cairney and Mitro are the obvious players to provide that.
Every one is writing off Ream, please look at his record for the season and remember his partnership with Hector is probably the best we have seen since Hangerland and Hughes.
Quote from: filham on August 09, 2020, 09:49:58 AM
Quote from: b+w geezer on August 09, 2020, 08:30:41 AM
If Ollie Norwood can do OK in the Premier League, then so can all of our midfielders if the context is right, as it was for him last season and was in no shape or form for us last time.
Our greater need is finding more goal-threatening support for Mitro. The recruits from last summer had Championship scoring pedigree and largely failed to reproduce it. They lack much of one at Prem level.
Even without defence strengthening (no question desirable) we are set to be less spectacularly leaky this time around, but expecting a series of clean sheets is another matter. A 1-0 defeat earns no more points than a 3-0 one. At least two meaningful additions are needed in this area, the first of which I would make higher priority even than any other mentioned so far above.
Fully agree b+w geezer, our spine is good , to improve any of those positions would cost us a lot of money that would be better spent on a goal scorer. Also we need continuity and Rodak, Hector, Reed, Cairney and Mitro are the obvious players to provide that.
Every one is writing off Ream, please look at his record for the season and remember his partnership with Hector is probably the best we have seen since Hangerland and Hughes.
Ream can still be a dependable squad player in the PL, but there's no way he should be starting. He's too slow and will get caught out at the top level.
If our starting CBs and CMs are Ream, Hector, Onomah, Reed, Cairney, we go down. No question.
Quote from: b+w geezer on August 09, 2020, 08:30:41 AM
If Ollie Norwood can do OK in the Premier League, then so can all of our midfielders if the context is right, as it was for him last season and was in no shape or form for us last time.
Our greater need is finding more goal-threatening support for Mitro. The recruits from last summer had Championship scoring pedigree and largely failed to reproduce it. They lack much of one at Prem level.
Even without defence strengthening (no question desirable) we are set to be less spectacularly leaky this time around, but expecting a series of clean sheets is another matter. A 1-0 defeat earns no more points than a 3-0 one. At least two meaningful additions are needed in this area, the first of which I would make higher priority even than any other mentioned so far above.
A really good post. The comment about the midfield 'context' is particularly apposite since it is not just a link between defence and attack but also the engine room. Getting the midfield right will also have a knock-on effect elsewhere including both defence and attack where Mitro really does need to be given at least a semblance of competition from within the squad. There are still weaknesses on both flanks and there are a multitude of ways of fixing the problems but if we are going to do better than a fight for PL survival then some very deep thought needs to be applied. The solutions do not necessarily have to be counted in very large sums of money as the Norwood scenario suggests.
I don't think Norwood would have solved as many problems for Fulham as people keep saying, he wasn't as a good a fit to the system as he is at Sheffield United.
But that doesn't mean that players are incapable of taking the step up. For example Dan Burn has managed to establish himself as a decent PL-level LB at the tender age of 28 after looking like an average Championship CB for years. I don't think anyone here saw that coming.
Quote from: Tabby on August 09, 2020, 11:11:24 AM
I don't think Norwood would have solved as many problems for Fulham as people keep saying, he wasn't as a good a fit to the system as he is at Sheffield United.
But that doesn't mean that players are incapable of taking the step up. For example Dan Burn has managed to establish himself as a decent PL-level LB at the tender age of 28 after looking like an average Championship CB for years. I don't think anyone here saw that coming.
Regarding Dan Burn, there was no question that he had the 'ability', decision making was the main issues. Had Roy Hodgson still been at Fulham when he arrived, it would have been a different story.
Quote from: rebel on August 09, 2020, 11:16:44 AM
Quote from: Tabby on August 09, 2020, 11:11:24 AM
I don't think Norwood would have solved as many problems for Fulham as people keep saying, he wasn't as a good a fit to the system as he is at Sheffield United.
But that doesn't mean that players are incapable of taking the step up. For example Dan Burn has managed to establish himself as a decent PL-level LB at the tender age of 28 after looking like an average Championship CB for years. I don't think anyone here saw that coming.
Regarding Dan Burn, there was no question that he had the 'ability', decision making was the main issues. Had Roy Hodgson still been at Fulham when he arrived, it would have been a different story.
The main point is that he is now a LB. The system that Potter has set up has let him perform better than players like Targett in a role I don't think anyone here was expecting.
Sone Aluko also looked like a top player in the Slavisa Jokanovic team, but he did dreadfully when put in Reading. The system is the most important part.
Quote from: Tabby on August 09, 2020, 11:11:24 AM
I don't think Norwood would have solved as many problems for Fulham as people keep saying, he wasn't as a good a fit to the system as he is at Sheffield United.
But that doesn't mean that players are incapable of taking the step up. For example Dan Burn ...etc.
This is really what I intended to imply by my Norwood mention.
Quote from: b+w geezer on August 09, 2020, 11:47:13 AM
This is really what I intended to imply by my Norwood mention.
It is nothing personally directed at you, I think Norwood is a good example of a player stepping up but I don't think he would have been able to do it in the same way at Fulham. And I have seen a lot of people arguing that he'd have been the missing piece of the puzzle, so it is more of a general observation.
Quote from: Tabby on August 09, 2020, 12:23:20 PM
Quote from: b+w geezer on August 09, 2020, 11:47:13 AM
This is really what I intended to imply by my Norwood mention.
It is nothing personally directed at you, I think Norwood is a good example of a player stepping up but I don't think he would have been able to do it in the same way at Fulham. And I have seen a lot of people arguing that he'd have been the missing piece of the puzzle, so it is more of a general observation.
Well that's 3 times Norwood has stepped up, 3 teams getting promoted to the Prem, playing different styles. I'm also fairly sure that he could adapt to out style of football, considering he played 36 times for us.
Quote from: rebel on August 09, 2020, 12:29:21 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 09, 2020, 12:23:20 PM
Quote from: b+w geezer on August 09, 2020, 11:47:13 AM
This is really what I intended to imply by my Norwood mention.
It is nothing personally directed at you, I think Norwood is a good example of a player stepping up but I don't think he would have been able to do it in the same way at Fulham. And I have seen a lot of people arguing that he'd have been the missing piece of the puzzle, so it is more of a general observation.
Well that's 3 times Norwood has stepped up, 3 teams getting promoted to the Prem, playing different styles. I'm also fairly sure that he could adapt to out style of football, considering he played 36 times for us.
He didn't play over 30 minutes in any of the last 20 games of the season when all the other midfielders were fit. A large reason that he got so many games was because Cairney injury problems, not because he outperformed them. He was a good team player, but he was a rotational option.
Compare that to Sheffield United where he started every game and was substituted twice. The team was built with him in mind.
Quote from: Twig on August 08, 2020, 10:54:04 PM
we are only one CB short of a terrific spine.
Methinks we need much more than that to rate terrific. Much more needed for back four. Absolutely one prem quality CB, if not two! Still need some midfield help with prem quality. As much as we all like TC, and I do, still not sold he is prem quality tbh. And we need another attacker/striker/winger to bolster the offense. Those are just minimum gets. Probably need at least 4-6 new players, all prem or near prem quality.
Edit.....Speaking of spine strength, can anyone tell me what the status and outlook would be for Kongolo? Does he rate as prem or near prem quality? I assume he is still in the team.
Quote from: Tabby on August 09, 2020, 12:23:20 PM
Quote from: b+w geezer on August 09, 2020, 11:47:13 AM
This is really what I intended to imply by my Norwood mention.
It is nothing personally directed at you, I think Norwood is a good example of a player stepping up but I don't think he would have been able to do it in the same way at Fulham. And I have seen a lot of people arguing that he'd have been the missing piece of the puzzle, so it is more of a general observation.
Am I the only person who never wanted Norwood to stay? Very happy for him doing well with Sheffield United. If he signed for us tomorrow along with harrison Reed and Aguissa came back. I wouldn't be dissapointed.. but he's definitely not getting in my starting lineup. Sheffield united have a championship squad but a very good manager. There is very few if not any players from their squad I would want us to sign and that includes Ollie Norwood.
Quote from: WindyCity on August 09, 2020, 05:18:19 PM
Quote from: Twig on August 08, 2020, 10:54:04 PM
we are only one CB short of a terrific spine.
Methinks we need much more than that to rate terrific. Much more needed for back four. Absolutely one prem quality CB, if not two! Still need some midfield help with prem quality. As much as we all like TC, and I do, still not sold he is prem quality tbh. And we need another attacker/striker/winger to bolster the offense. Those are just minimum gets. Probably need at least 4-6 new players, all prem or near prem quality.
Edit.....Speaking of spine strength, can anyone tell me what the status and outlook would be for Kongolo? Does he rate as prem or near prem quality? I assume he is still in the team.
Kongolo went back to Huddersfield after he got injured. Not sure if he is back in full training yet.
Quote from: JEEVES on August 09, 2020, 07:59:46 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 09, 2020, 12:23:20 PM
Quote from: b+w geezer on August 09, 2020, 11:47:13 AM
This is really what I intended to imply by my Norwood mention.
It is nothing personally directed at you, I think Norwood is a good example of a player stepping up but I don't think he would have been able to do it in the same way at Fulham. And I have seen a lot of people arguing that he'd have been the missing piece of the puzzle, so it is more of a general observation.
Am I the only person who never wanted Norwood to stay? Very happy for him doing well with Sheffield United. If he signed for us tomorrow along with harrison Reed and Aguissa came back. I wouldn't be dissapointed.. but he's definitely not getting in my starting lineup. Sheffield united have a championship squad but a very good manager. There is very few if not any players from their squad I would want us to sign and that includes Ollie Norwood.
im with you, he was very average for us and just a bench boy. He has done well for himself but I wouldn't want him in my team
Quote from: fulhamben on August 09, 2020, 08:24:50 PM
Quote from: JEEVES on August 09, 2020, 07:59:46 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 09, 2020, 12:23:20 PM
Quote from: b+w geezer on August 09, 2020, 11:47:13 AM
This is really what I intended to imply by my Norwood mention.
It is nothing personally directed at you, I think Norwood is a good example of a player stepping up but I don't think he would have been able to do it in the same way at Fulham. And I have seen a lot of people arguing that he'd have been the missing piece of the puzzle, so it is more of a general observation.
Am I the only person who never wanted Norwood to stay? Very happy for him doing well with Sheffield United. If he signed for us tomorrow along with harrison Reed and Aguissa came back. I wouldn't be dissapointed.. but he's definitely not getting in my starting lineup. Sheffield united have a championship squad but a very good manager. There is very few if not any players from their squad I would want us to sign and that includes Ollie Norwood.
im with you, he was very average for us and just a bench boy. He has done well for himself but I wouldn't want him in my team
Thank you mate. Cos I know there's a lot that will disagree. The amount of people bringing him up on here recently reminds me of the constant mention of dempsey and dembele when we lost them. There's no comparison. He's had a great season and he's overperformed like all of his colleagues have.. wasn't fussed when he left us, and I wouldn't want him back.
Quote from: Twig on August 09, 2020, 09:14:04 AM
Quote from: Statto on August 08, 2020, 11:56:13 PM
Without meaning to be critical of players who've been heroes for us recently, IMO most of those names will need to be bang in form and/or up their game slightly just to get into the starting XI of a team that's going to finish higher than 18th in the PL
Rodak - OK, particularly given he should continue to improve this season
Hector - again OK, but he'll look bang average in the PL and needs a partner at least as good as he is
Onomah - not sure, at best he'll look bang average on a good day. Nowhere near good enough on a bad day. But his bad days do seem to be behind him now, and again, a relative youngster, so will hopefully continue to step up his game this season
Cairney - to say he looked bang average last time we were in the PL is probably being kind, hence the apparent lack of interest in him after we went down. If we can get some proper quality around him (eg Anguissa and a £30m winger) we may get by with Cairney but we can't rely on him to be our primary creative force at this level IMO
Hmmm, I think it's a bit different this time around for TC. Last time our CB partnership was weak and we didn't have a strong defensive midfielder. With Hector +1 and Reed (I did say depending on signing Reed), then TC won't be in a team that is constantly under pressure of being overwhelmed. I'd expect to see a different TC in those circumstances but if not then fair enough, I'm over optimistic.
With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.
Quote from: 70sPimlico on August 09, 2020, 08:51:14 PM
Cairney - to say he looked bang average last time we were in the PL is probably being kind, hence the apparent lack of interest in him
With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.
""With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.""
Not exactly a ringing endorsement........
Quote from: WindyCity on August 10, 2020, 05:03:28 PM
Quote from: 70sPimlico on August 09, 2020, 08:51:14 PM
Cairney - to say he looked bang average last time we were in the PL is probably being kind, hence the apparent lack of interest in him
With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.
""With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.""
Not exactly a ringing endorsement........
I agree with Pimlico.... If he has players making runs Tom will pick them out and you will see his class. When there is a lack of options, Tom has to turn around and look for different options. Many fans were critical of Parker playing for Fulham but it was the same with him. If there was nothing on, he'd do a 180 before spinning and starting over again.
Quote from: WindyCity on August 10, 2020, 05:03:28 PM
Quote from: 70sPimlico on August 09, 2020, 08:51:14 PM
Cairney - to say he looked bang average last time we were in the PL is probably being kind, hence the apparent lack of interest in him
With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.
""With you on this. TC is a premiership player, as long as he has premiership support around him.""
Not exactly a ringing endorsement........
Cairney is brilliant when the team works around him, running into space and so he just can to land the pass.
When Cairney has the ball, other players need to be:
Sessegnon Mitro Kamara
Taggett Stefjo Fredricks
Cairney
Ream KMac Odoi
Betts
When the opposition have the ball, other players need to be:
Mitro
Cairney
Sessegnon Stefjo Kamara
KMac
Taggett Ream Odoi Fredricks
Betts
Otherwise, he is not a brilliant player but still ok.
Ream, KMac, Cairney, and Mitro need super mobile players around them.
Fredericks, Odoi, Sessegnon, Stefjo and Kamara are super mobile players.
Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.
Quote from: Denver Fulham on August 11, 2020, 07:40:56 AM
Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.
Rodak, Hector, and Mitro are relegation fodder are you kidding me. The current squad with Fabri, Anguissa, Seri, and Reed back, plus some defenders (RB, LCB and LB) and another forward (that can play strikers) should be able to be 18th by the winter transfer window and if we achieve that we should be able to stay up then.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 11, 2020, 08:21:48 AM
Quote from: Denver Fulham on August 11, 2020, 07:40:56 AM
Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.
Rodak, Hector, and Mitro are relegation fodder are you kidding me. The current squad with Fabri, Anguissa, Seri, and Reed back, plus some defenders (RB, LCB and LB) and another forward (that can play strikers) should be able to be 18th by the winter transfer window and if we achieve that we should be able to stay up then.
Fabri, Anguissa and Seri back are you kidding me, they are not the Cavalry coming over the hill to rescue us, they are the relegation fodder and will be heading in opposite direction again away from the fight.
Quote from: Denver Fulham on August 11, 2020, 07:40:56 AM
Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.
Completely disagree with your assessment of our spine and in case you don't understand the concept, can I point out that a LB is not even part of the spine.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 11, 2020, 08:21:48 AM
Quote from: Denver Fulham on August 11, 2020, 07:40:56 AM
Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.
Rodak, Hector, and Mitro are relegation fodder are you kidding me. The current squad with Fabri, Anguissa, Seri, and Reed back, plus some defenders (RB, LCB and LB) and another forward (that can play strikers) should be able to be 18th by the winter transfer window and if we achieve that we should be able to stay up then.
Neither Rodak or Hector is in any way proven in the top flight. There have been so many players failing to take the step up. I'll give you that Mitro has at least proved to be a decent PL striker, but the other two have yet to prove that they belong at that level. The same goes for Reed, who has only ever been a bit part player at PL level before.
Quote from: Denver Fulham on August 11, 2020, 07:40:56 AM
Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.
Although I am more optimistic about our 'spine' working better this time around I do agree that it is far from perfect. Rodak needs to work harder on distribution since giving the ball away has been our downfall in Championship games already and it'll be worse in the PL. The CB pairing doesn't look pacey enough to me and just how to remedy that is perplexing because Ream is not getting any younger, and can read the game faster than he can move. Both flanks have issues and the central midfield falters when those issues have been magnified by Championship sides exploiting weaknesses. I think Parker has to have a solid defence first and foremost but I include the full backs and midfield links in making it even tougher than it has been to date. If that breaches the definition of having a spine then so be it, but football needs more than nominal players in nominal positions. The whole needs to function as a team unit.
By all accounts Sheffield United over achieved via a good coach and so surely we can do so too. Parker is on the right route and he just needs some judicious signings to plug the gaps in the squad and the spine. Let's hope he gets the players he wants and needs.
Quote from: Statto on August 08, 2020, 11:56:13 PM
Without meaning to be critical of players who've been heroes for us recently, IMO most of those names will need to be bang in form and/or up their game slightly just to get into the starting XI of a team that's going to finish higher than 18th in the PL
Rodak - OK, particularly given he should continue to improve this season
Hector - again OK, but he'll look bang average in the PL and needs a partner at least as good as he is
Onomah - not sure, at best he'll look bang average on a good day. Nowhere near good enough on a bad day. But his bad days do seem to be behind him now, and again, a relative youngster, so will hopefully continue to step up his game this season
Cairney - to say he looked bang average last time we were in the PL is probably being kind, hence the apparent lack of interest in him after we went down. If we can get some proper quality around him (eg Anguissa and a £30m winger) we may get by with Cairney but we can't rely on him to be our primary creative force at this level IMO
We talk as if Tony Khan messed everything up by getting the wrong players and that's the only reason we got relegated, but that is much less than half the story.
The first half of the story is the spine we bought up from the Championship Betts, Odoi, Ream, KMac, Stefjo, Cairney, and Mitro was hopelessly inadequate, I see little reason that Rodak, Hector, Ream, Reed, Cairney, Onamah and Mitro will be much better. So, we need new talent.
The second half of the story is the talent we bought into the club that season such as Fabri, Seri, and Anguissa was dominating their leagues, but as soon as they arrived in the premier league they went from world beaters to very average players. If you think a great championship player makes a quality premier league player, then you shouldn't criticize Tony Khan for thinking great Ligue Un players make great Premier League players too.
I rate Rodak and think he is a top keeper. Hector is the best center-back we have had in a while but he is far from a world beater, we need an equally good addition to stand a chance of staying up, but ideally, we want a significantly better center back than him alongside Hector in the premier league. Reed, Onamah, and Cairney didn't convince me before lockdown, then after lockdown there were a few weak performances Brentford, Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, and Cardiff.
We need a new LCB, then bring Anguissa and Seri back so that hopefull with Rodak, Onamah and Mitro we have a spine that can come 17th in the EPL.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 11, 2020, 08:21:48 AM
Quote from: Denver Fulham on August 11, 2020, 07:40:56 AM
Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.
Rodak, Hector, and Mitro are relegation fodder are you kidding me. The current squad with Fabri, Anguissa, Seri, and Reed back, plus some defenders (RB, LCB and LB) and another forward (that can play strikers) should be able to be 18th by the winter transfer window and if we achieve that we should be able to stay up then.
You literally just reiterated my point by saying if we add all of that to our current spine, we could be 18th at winter.
We just have to be honest about what we have. I love Mitro, but I think he scored once in the second half of the Prem season. He's easily marshaled by better PL defenses because of his lack of pace and gets starved of service. Rodak could be anything — everyone was eager to give Betts the shirt last time up and he was totally overmatched at this level. Hector looks fine but needs a partner who can move quicker than he does. Cairney was also a nonfactor last time up and is two years older now. We need help.
Quote from: Denver Fulham on August 12, 2020, 03:36:58 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 11, 2020, 08:21:48 AM
Quote from: Denver Fulham on August 11, 2020, 07:40:56 AM
Our current spine, GK to striker, is relegation fodder. If we add a PL-caliber LB, bring back Reed and Anguisa, and add a pacy striker and/or an attacking midfield type, we can revisit it. I like Rodak, but let's not kid ourselves -- on current level/experience, he'd be one of the weakest keepers in the league. He either has to take another big leap next year or we better have a Prem-caliber alternative, because we're not going to be scoring a bunch of goals with our current attacking options and the likelihood that Parker plays with two DMs a lot next season.
Rodak, Hector, and Mitro are relegation fodder are you kidding me. The current squad with Fabri, Anguissa, Seri, and Reed back, plus some defenders (RB, LCB and LB) and another forward (that can play strikers) should be able to be 18th by the winter transfer window and if we achieve that we should be able to stay up then.
You literally just reiterated my point by saying if we add all of that to our current spine, we could be 18th at winter.
We just have to be honest about what we have. I love Mitro, but I think he scored once in the second half of the Prem season. He's easily marshaled by better PL defenses because of his lack of pace and gets starved of service. Rodak could be anything — everyone was eager to give Betts the shirt last time up and he was totally overmatched at this level. Hector looks fine but needs a partner who can move quicker than he does. Cairney was also a nonfactor last time up and is two years older now. We need help.
My point about being 18th by the winter transfer window (1st Jan 2021) is provided we don't spend much in the summer, we can really boost the squad for the second half of the season to stay up and/or better prepare for the championship next season if situation is hopeless.
We didn't have enough money in 2018/19 to buy a squad that can stay up, and we cannot buy a squad to stay up now. Hopefully, we can add some quality and depth to the squad, but team work and cohesion is the only thing that can beat existing premier league teams with more ££££ than us.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on August 11, 2020, 04:22:41 PM
We talk as if Tony Khan messed everything up by getting the wrong players and that's the only reason we got relegated, but that is much less than half the story.
That depends upon which version of the facts you wish to be the body of your plot. The ending is the same in all cases regardless i.e. relegation, a mortally wounded promotion squad, two discarded managers, more self inflicted wounds, a lot of wasted time, and a joint owner faffing around that is wasn't his fault ... and then there were the signings of which Anguissa was described 'as one for the future' (TK the master of crystal ball technology) whilst Seri appeared to sulk in a corner because his former club appeared to have misinformed him. Sessegnon was told he needed to grow up. Meanwhile Kamara had been dispatched to 'Siberia' (for all he cared) for daring to want to complain that something was wrong in Motspur Park under Ranieri ... which one of these bits of the story would you wish to be changed so that TK can be held in better light?
It has taken a year to get over the worse of that history and I am not particularly keen on having any of it rewritten for convenience sake of one of our joint owners.
