For all the talk of Chambers and others. TK (the player) was always the most likely CB we'd sign , it was just a case of waiting for him to get fit.
Now reportedly we are back in talks to sign him... But is he the player we need? :031:
Well he's better than ream, but is he good enough to help us stay up, let's hope so if he is the main player that we bring in for the lcb position
Plus we were never going to bring chambers back as a center back after he played so badly there for us last time out.
The big question for me is his fitness. I think he has the ability, but it's whether we could get him on the pitch long enough to show it...
Would he be brought in to be a starter though? Surely just squad depth?
Quote from: Maidstone Lee on September 17, 2020, 11:21:36 AM
Would he be brought in to be a starter though? Surely just squad depth?
but he would be a starter due to him being better than ream and mlm
Kongolo s injury was a very bad break to a toe in his foot. Surely this is not that difficult to correct. I do understand he had a metal plate etc etc and it has clearly been a long haul however it should not be career threatening like a bad knee injury was too Mawson. Kongolo was very good in the Prem for Huddersfield and another Dutch international to play alongside Tete.
Probably an upgrade on Ream and MLM for that LCB spot, plus he's familiar with the club/league so would need less time to acclimatise. If we could get him AND Tah, I'd be very happy - but maybe that's overly optimistic.
Quote from: fulhamben on September 17, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Plus we were never going to bring chambers back as a center back after he played so badly there for us last time out.
Whilst I do get the urgency to sort out a competitive team for a decent PL challenge, what Chambers did in 2018/19 is meaningless so far as 2020/21 is concerned. What I fear is precisely this lack of coherent appraisal whereby we tend to rush into identifying causes and then have difficulty working out where we went wrong in doing so and why. I'd prefer to go with Hector and Ream rather than make things even worse with another batch of 'let's have another go'. I am sure Parker has his views on which players would help or hinder and I rather believe he is not at all spoilt for choice. We may all have to be very humble in the circumstances and hope we can find a way forward.
At the start of the window, I wasn't interested in signing him. At this point, I will be absolutely buzzing if he signs.
He will be a backup. Everyone knows we need 2 CBs to come in. Ream isn't good enough to play for potentially 10 games or so if either of our CBs get injured. Tah is miles ahead in quality. Hopefully he would want to come here...
Quote from: JEEVES on September 17, 2020, 11:31:29 AM
At the start of the window, I wasn't interested in signing him. At this point, I will be absolutely buzzing if he signs.
I share your feelings, sir. But it isn't really a good reason for signing him.
I'm a bit puzzled by what seems to me to be a bit of a Kongolo love-in on these pages over the months.
A few years back Terence Kongolo was regarded as a very good CB, at least in prospect. He got a few minutes for Netherlands over a four year period (4 caps, 1 complete game) and played in the PL (for a very poor team, although that wasn't his fault).
He played 9 minutes for us in the Ch. plus most of a Cup tonking by Manchester City. There must have been something spectacular in those few minutes that I missed, because he gets a hell of a good write-up from some quarters.
Personally I think the most spectacular thing about him is his injury record, which, again, is not his fault. Much sympathy to him, but I think it is something we should be very careful about.
As long as he isn't the only defender we're signing, we absolutely should sign him. On his day, he gets into our team but his injury will mean it could take some time to get match fit so another CB would be required. I doubt hes the only one we're looking at though. So i'd 100% expect two defenders if Kongolo is one of them.
I have no problem with Kongolo. Thought he looked good in the little we saw of him. BUT if we are going for players like him it clearly shows we have been unable to bring in and recruit a better player to improve us. In fact we have so far recruited players of no great pedigree . But then as we know nothing is guaranteed whoever comes.
Quote from: FFC1987 on September 17, 2020, 11:52:43 AM
As long as he isn't the only defender we're signing, we absolutely should sign him. On his day, he gets into our team but his injury will mean it could take some time to get match fit so another CB would be required. I doubt hes the only one we're looking at though. So i'd 100% expect two defenders if Kongolo is one of them.
Yes - that is exactly how I see it. From the limited information available - it seems that Kongolo is still some way off match fitness, but perhaps there is positive news regarding his recovery from the actual injury. I'm sure we would have signed before now if he was fit and available, but wisely perhaps - the club wanted to check his progress before considering the move. Although, it could also mean that we have lost out to other targets and now need to go back in for him!
If we can manage to sign Tah (unlikely but you never know), then I would be happy with the central defenders at the club - both in terms of first choice (Tah and Kongolo?) and back-up (Hector and Ream with Odoi as emergency cover).
Quote from: Classic94 on September 17, 2020, 11:30:12 AM
Probably an upgrade on Ream and MLM for that LCB spot, plus he's familiar with the club/league so would need less time to acclimatise. If we could get him AND Tah, I'd be very happy - but maybe that's overly optimistic.
Tah and Kongolo and I will T-Cut Tony Khan's Bentley (not a euphemism...) for a month
What the hell, it couuld even be a euphenmism if we sign both!
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 17, 2020, 12:04:09 PM
I have no problem with Kongolo. Thought he looked good in the little we saw of him. BUT if we are going for players like him it clearly shows we have been unable to bring in and recruit a better player to improve us. In fact we have so far recruited players of no great pedigree . But then as we know nothing is guaranteed whoever comes.
We're being stingy at the moment, hopefully there is significant money in the pot for the right player.
Kongolo looked good but I've not seen a very big sample size to know quite how consistent he is.
Quote from: FulhamStu on September 17, 2020, 11:25:12 AM
Kongolo s injury was a very bad break to a toe in his foot. Surely this is not that difficult to correct. I do understand he had a metal plate etc etc and it has clearly been a long haul however it should not be career threatening like a bad knee injury was too Mawson. Kongolo was very good in the Prem for Huddersfield and another Dutch international to play alongside Tete.
Interesting. I've had metalwork inserted in my toe and it took 6 months for the swelling to go down, but a full recovery was never in doubt. Don't want to overstate my similarity to a professional athlete, but the experience taught me that toes aren't like knees or ankles.
Kongolo is not a sure thing, but he could turn out to be very good indeed and I'd be happy to see him signed.
"at this moment he is a huddersfield player but we are in the market to try and improve us. We all understand where we need to strengthen from when we were last in the Premier League"
- Parker from todays press conference...
Sounds very much like he'll be incoming to me.
Most of us had never heard of Brede when Roy signed him and i can't remember anyone saying Arron Hughes was amazing. Roy's system and the understanding they developed made us pretty rock solid for a few seasons. So I dont nessacarely think we have to break financial records for a CB just someone that's going to fit and play for and with the team.
Quote from: FFC1987 on September 17, 2020, 11:52:43 AM
As long as he isn't the only defender we're signing, we absolutely should sign him. On his day, he gets into our team but his injury will mean it could take some time to get match fit so another CB would be required. I doubt hes the only one we're looking at though. So i'd 100% expect two defenders if Kongolo is one of them.
Agree.
Plus, in the game where Terrence got hurt...he stayed in the game and finished it out even after he was noticeably injured. Admirable (if also foolish) on his part. May have even resulted in him being out longer than he would have been had he took himself out the game the minute he hurt his foot.
If he wants to come back and he doesn't prevent us from getting a starting CB (one that's great at playing the ball in the air defensively) I'm all for having him on our squad. He seems like he wants to be a Cottager.
Quote from: toshes mate on September 17, 2020, 11:30:40 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on September 17, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Plus we were never going to bring chambers back as a center back after he played so badly there for us last time out.
Whilst I do get the urgency to sort out a competitive team for a decent PL challenge, what Chambers did in 2018/19 is meaningless so far as 2020/21 is concerned. What I fear is precisely this lack of coherent appraisal whereby we tend to rush into identifying causes and then have difficulty working out where we went wrong in doing so and why. I'd prefer to go with Hector and Ream rather than make things even worse with another batch of 'let's have another go'. I am sure Parker has his views on which players would help or hinder and I rather believe he is not at all spoilt for choice. We may all have to be very humble in the circumstances and hope we can find a way forward.
Very wise, if we can find a centre back that can get us 17th this season or 2nd in the Championship next season then we should buy him. What we shouldn't do is waste £20m getting a centre-back that will get us to 18th position and miss half next seasons championship. Any money we don't spend now, can be spent later when we really need it.
Kongolo's hardly a panic signing when they wanted him last season, and he did play, well, for Huddersfield in the Prem - so he has experience of playing against top strikers in a team that's often under pressure in the Prem from the top teams.
I would be interested to know how good he is at passing. Whoscored says that's one of his weaknesses and it does seem a necessary attribute under Parker that centre backs are comfortable passing out from the back.
I don't know.
I'm just keeping it simple and thinking of the pun first.
KINGKongolo? KongoLOVE?
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 18, 2020, 04:32:48 AM
I would be interested to know how good he is at passing. Whoscored says that's one of his weaknesses and it does seem a necessary attribute under Parker that centre backs are comfortable passing out from the back.
Whoscored rates Kongolo as the 2nd Worst Centre Back of 2018/19 that played more than 5 games, Tim Ream was the worst. I wouldn't touch Kongolo, when we upgrade it should be with the right player a not slightly better player.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 18, 2020, 05:10:14 AM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 18, 2020, 04:32:48 AM
I would be interested to know how good he is at passing. Whoscored says that's one of his weaknesses and it does seem a necessary attribute under Parker that centre backs are comfortable passing out from the back.
Whoscored rates Kongolo as the 2nd Worst Centre Back of 2018/19 that played more than 5 games, Tim Ream was the worst. I wouldn't touch Kongolo, when we upgrade it should be with the right player a not slightly better player.
Well, there goes my pun.
How about TAHriffic! 076.gif
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 18, 2020, 05:10:14 AM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 18, 2020, 04:32:48 AM
I would be interested to know how good he is at passing. Whoscored says that's one of his weaknesses and it does seem a necessary attribute under Parker that centre backs are comfortable passing out from the back.
Whoscored rates Kongolo as the 2nd Worst Centre Back of 2018/19 that played more than 5 games, Tim Ream was the worst. I wouldn't touch Kongolo, when we upgrade it should be with the right player a not slightly better player.
What are they basing that on?
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 18, 2020, 04:32:48 AM
I would be interested to know how good he is at passing. Whoscored says that's one of his weaknesses and it does seem a necessary attribute under Parker that centre backs are comfortable passing out from the back.
That's based on a very small sample size correct?
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 18, 2020, 06:35:00 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 18, 2020, 05:10:14 AM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 18, 2020, 04:32:48 AM
I would be interested to know how good he is at passing. Whoscored says that's one of his weaknesses and it does seem a necessary attribute under Parker that centre backs are comfortable passing out from the back.
Whoscored rates Kongolo as the 2nd Worst Centre Back of 2018/19 that played more than 5 games, Tim Ream was the worst. I wouldn't touch Kongolo, when we upgrade it should be with the right player a not slightly better player.
What are they basing that on?
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 18, 2020, 04:32:48 AM
I would be interested to know how good he is at passing. Whoscored says that's one of his weaknesses and it does seem a necessary attribute under Parker that centre backs are comfortable passing out from the back.
That's based on a very small sample size correct?
He played 30+ games in the 18/19 season, so that should be a decent sample size. As for the weaknesses, I guess that is based on several seasons. Not that it matters though, because I am pretty sure that our recruiting process has now evolved beyond Whoscored. We did for example have Kongolo here training with the first team for a while. If we want him back, it is reasonable to assume that we at least had a good impression of him. Also worth noting that 18/19 Huddersfiled were even worse than 18/19 Fulham, and it is not necessarily only Kongolo's fault, so maybe should not look too much into a players worst season without context.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on September 18, 2020, 06:35:00 AM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 18, 2020, 05:10:14 AM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 18, 2020, 04:32:48 AM
I would be interested to know how good he is at passing. Whoscored says that's one of his weaknesses and it does seem a necessary attribute under Parker that centre backs are comfortable passing out from the back.
Whoscored rates Kongolo as the 2nd Worst Centre Back of 2018/19 that played more than 5 games, Tim Ream was the worst. I wouldn't touch Kongolo, when we upgrade it should be with the right player a not slightly better player.
What are they basing that on?
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 18, 2020, 04:32:48 AM
I would be interested to know how good he is at passing. Whoscored says that's one of his weaknesses and it does seem a necessary attribute under Parker that centre backs are comfortable passing out from the back.
That's based on a very small sample size correct?
I'm not sure how they worked it out, but in general I do rate their analysis. I really don't know enough about his style and attributes to judge it. I liked what little I did see.
Quote from: I Ronic on September 17, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
Most of us had never heard of Brede when Roy signed him and i can't remember anyone saying Arron Hughes was amazing. Roy's system and the understanding they developed made us pretty rock solid for a few seasons. So I dont nessacarely think we have to break financial records for a CB just someone that's going to fit and play for and with the team.
Agree 100%, Roy would drill his squad so they knew their jobs on the pitch, their positioning etc. That's how he keeps teams up, he concentrates on defence.
Quote from: rebel on September 18, 2020, 08:21:04 AM
Quote from: I Ronic on September 17, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
Most of us had never heard of Brede when Roy signed him and i can't remember anyone saying Arron Hughes was amazing. Roy's system and the understanding they developed made us pretty rock solid for a few seasons. So I dont nessacarely think we have to break financial records for a CB just someone that's going to fit and play for and with the team.
Agree 100%, Roy would drill his squad so they knew their jobs on the pitch, their positioning etc. That's how he keeps teams up, he concentrates on defence.
the problem we have, is that we play a system where only a handful of players in the world can excel at it in the center back position and they cost a fortune. Look at how much city have spent on center backs trying to find one that can play out from the back and defend well.
Quote from: fulhamben on September 18, 2020, 09:17:05 AM
Quote from: rebel on September 18, 2020, 08:21:04 AM
Quote from: I Ronic on September 17, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
Most of us had never heard of Brede when Roy signed him and i can't remember anyone saying Arron Hughes was amazing. Roy's system and the understanding they developed made us pretty rock solid for a few seasons. So I dont nessacarely think we have to break financial records for a CB just someone that's going to fit and play for and with the team.
Agree 100%, Roy would drill his squad so they knew their jobs on the pitch, their positioning etc. That's how he keeps teams up, he concentrates on defence.
the problem we have, is that we play a system where only a handful of players in the world can excel at it in the center back position and they cost a fortune. Look at how much city have spent on center backs trying to find one that can play out from the back and defend well.
This isn't wrong; but I think the playing out from the back is being slightly overplayed. When you look at Ream, his strength is playing out, his weakness is certain aspects of defending e.g. pace/aerial battles. We're looking to upgrade because of the defending. I would say Hector's strength is more his defending. He's decent on the ball but it's not his best quality. If you look at Mawson, the talk has been about playing out from the back, but the truth is his defending was not up to scratch either.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 18, 2020, 05:10:14 AM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 18, 2020, 04:32:48 AM
I would be interested to know how good he is at passing. Whoscored says that's one of his weaknesses and it does seem a necessary attribute under Parker that centre backs are comfortable passing out from the back.
Whoscored rates Kongolo as the 2nd Worst Centre Back of 2018/19 that played more than 5 games, Tim Ream was the worst. I wouldn't touch Kongolo, when we upgrade it should be with the right player a not slightly better player.
That site stats are a bit of a farce. Incredibly the top 10 rated players for that season are exactly the same as the top ten scorers for that season.
3rd worst rated CB is Conor Coady.
Kongolo is/was a superb player in Holland and it seems destroyed by the Cowley brothers wanting him to not play football just lump it about.
I reckon most would be more than pleasantly surprised with him if he plays for us regularly.
Quote from: bencher on September 18, 2020, 09:30:42 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on September 18, 2020, 09:17:05 AM
Quote from: rebel on September 18, 2020, 08:21:04 AM
Quote from: I Ronic on September 17, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
Most of us had never heard of Brede when Roy signed him and i can't remember anyone saying Arron Hughes was amazing. Roy's system and the understanding they developed made us pretty rock solid for a few seasons. So I dont nessacarely think we have to break financial records for a CB just someone that's going to fit and play for and with the team.
Agree 100%, Roy would drill his squad so they knew their jobs on the pitch, their positioning etc. That's how he keeps teams up, he concentrates on defence.
the problem we have, is that we play a system where only a handful of players in the world can excel at it in the center back position and they cost a fortune. Look at how much city have spent on center backs trying to find one that can play out from the back and defend well.
This isn't wrong; but I think the playing out from the back is being slightly overplayed. When you look at Ream, his strength is playing out, his weakness is certain aspects of defending e.g. pace/aerial battles. We're looking to upgrade because of the defending. I would say Hector's strength is more his defending. He's decent on the ball but it's not his best quality. If you look at Mawson, the talk has been about playing out from the back, but the truth is his defending was not up to scratch either.
Ream is good playing out but he doesn't make many long range passes. MLM and Hector have that in their locker, it's good to have that as an option.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on September 18, 2020, 05:10:14 AM
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 18, 2020, 04:32:48 AM
I would be interested to know how good he is at passing. Whoscored says that's one of his weaknesses and it does seem a necessary attribute under Parker that centre backs are comfortable passing out from the back.
Whoscored rates Kongolo as the 2nd Worst Centre Back of 2018/19 that played more than 5 games, Tim Ream was the worst. I wouldn't touch Kongolo, when we upgrade it should be with the right player a not slightly better player.
I think he is a superior player to Ream and is also much quicker. Having a faster back line is absolutely essential in the Premier League. It seems that Tete/Aina have pace and Antonee does as well, so if we can sign a centre back with pace (whether it is Kongolo or someone else) I'm confident that we will concede a lot less goals than 2018-2019 provided they integrate well...
