So, we are are back in the Premier League and it all seems too familiar or does it? Last time around we were gung-ho confident and sure we could impose our football on the premiership. We all know how that ended.
A three-manager season with precious little to be happy about and "gaping wounds" in the club. Our defense simply wasnt good enough, either individually or collectively.We had made quality signings which actually turned out to be signings with some qualities, but definitely not players who contributed much to collective defending.
The likes of Schurlle and company were luxury players that left us wide open. Other players from the team that had taken us up just weren`t goood enough or were they?
This time around I believe we have a more solid platform to compete in the PL, with manager very aware of the difficulties staying in place entails. He is still learning his trade, and needs to put his stamp on things quickly.
The clubs stance on this is hopefully reflected on the new contract that he has been given. That he will be given time, presumably the whole season. I cant help thinking that anything else would be a huge mistake if we are trying to build something it will take time and patience.
The exclusion of Ream and an Cairney suggests to me that Parker is trying to address the soft underbelly issue. Four goals conceded yesterday suggests that there is along way to go in this regards, and it is more complex than the obvious that TC needs to be far more creative to hold down a place in the team and that Ream is not really up to this league physically.
Other player issues could be seen yesterday in my opinion. Hector could go in front of his man in the Championship and nick balls, or get drawn out wide without catastrophic consequences. He has to work on when to go with his man and when to stay in this league, opposition players that are just as big and strong as him can turn him easily.
Onomah can no longer bully opposite numbers with his strength as he is now matched in that department by opposing players. Harrison Read looks too small to play in the defensive midfield roll, getting brushed away too easily in physical duels.
We can no longer afford the luxury of 3 or 4 touches of the ball by players like Cavallero every time they recieve the ball. Kamaras pace alone is not going to take him past players as it did last year. Im sure SP sees these issues a lot more clearly than the rest of us.
To become more solid at the back we will need to tweak some of these problems and look to be far more direct when we counter attack.
The positives for me are that the group showed that they are fighting for each other. Anguissa has also developed into a player who is going to be our main man this season, winning the ball on numerous occasions and being a positive direct outlet going forward. Mitro will score goals if we give him the right service.
Tete is looking good and will find the balance between getting forward and defending I believe. Robinson and Aina will also benefit the team moving forward in my view.
We are going to sign a few more players this week. We are all agreed that we need a quality centre-back and maybe more defnsive cover. Another forward is also a must for me. I also believe we need a strong, physical defensive midfielder who can dominate that role.
One good thing that has come out of these first 2 games is that it has illustrated exactly where we stand and what we need. Parker's decision to play Odoi against Leeds yesterday was avery clear indication that more defensive reinforcements are on their way in.
We all would have liked these to be already in place. The difficulties involved in getting these players in is not something I fully understand and it is clearly not just aquestion of laying out the money asked for, or penny pinching on our part.
It is going to be an interesting week or so ahead.
Agree with all that.
My only concern is next week may not be an "interesting week" because the window is open for another 16 days, and I've no confidence in TK learning that shrewd business in soccer isn't about last-minute bargains. So I'm expecting us to announce a CB signing on 5 October and release one of those TK interviews where he sits there like a young Trump telling us what a hard bargain he drove to get the player.
I don't think TK is unaware of the problems in the team. I just don't think he has managed to bring in anybody of real quality and nobody in the positions we needed most. 7 goals conceded in two games. BRRRRRRR
But we once lasted 13 seasons in the Prem. Has the Prem improved in quality or the Championship got worse?
What is clear is that with the short turn around Parker still doesn't know his best players in each position for particular games. I am pretty sure that non of the players brought in are great improvements in what we already had.
It maybe just two games in. But it already feels like a wasted opportunity again. But then there is still time for the club to bring in the right players in the positions we badly need improvement. But I have more faith in Parker finding a right way to play with the players he has than the club actually bringing in the right players or the players who want to be here.
Obviously TK is unfit for the job ... the more succesful DoF's have decades long relationships with Clubs, owners, players and agents .... they can sell the club to potential new players. When when TK picks up the phone, the answer is "Tony who ? from the club we are not sure will stay up in the PL ?". TK is a lightweight in the world of professional football by reputation.
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 20, 2020, 10:55:41 AM
I don't think TK is unaware of the problems in the team. I just don't think he has managed to bring in anybody of real quality and nobody in the positions we needed most. 7 goals conceded in two games. BRRRRRRR
But we once lasted 13 seasons in the Prem. Has the Prem improved in quality or the Championship got worse?
What is clear is that with the short turn around Parker still doesn't know his best players in each position for particular games. I am pretty sure that non of the players brought in are great improvements in what we already had.
It maybe just two games in. But it already feels like a wasted opportunity again. But then there is still time for the club to bring in the right players in the positions we badly need improvement. But I have more faith in Parker finding a right way to play with the players he has than the club actually bringing in the right players or the players who want to be here.
Leeds have also conceded 7 goals in 2 games, and they supposedly have "the best manager in the world".
And west brom 8 I would say the championship is falling behind the premiership
Really good post.
In regards to the leagues, yes - the premiership has pulled miles ahead since our last extended stay. This is down to the finances and ever increasing TV deals. Small clubs that will be bottom half can bring in players on huge money from big teams. The big clubs, as we know, may as well be playing in a different league. Their second (and possibly even third) sides will beat us.
This is why, sorry to bang the same drum, it was absolutely vital we had the right parts in place for the start. As we had a couple, our of only the handful of games, that we can legitimately expect to pick up points this year (and by doing so, prevent our rivals. So double, essentially). This hasn't happened and the results have been as predicted. If the same happens against Villa which, at the moment, I suspect it will, the added affect on confidence and morale, will mean we may as well just focus on getting a strong champion side together for next year. Defeatist? Maybe. Sad? Definitely. All too predicable? You need only read mine and a few others posts from the final whistle onwards.
I feel for Scott. He has been sold down the river, given an impossible job that will affect his reputation when he fails (the why's and whatnots are forgotten or not even picked up on by the wider footballing community - or even our own, using Slavisa as the most recent example, given the same hand and still to this day having people post 'well, he was a failure in the Prem! Good riddance!' Etc).
All so very sad and could have been different.
Ok we will see.Lighthouse made agood point about Parker being able to work with hes got. I hope hes right. I still believe we will get alot more solid in the weeks to come. Possession in this league is not always a good thing. Transiton to attack is vital however and that has to become much quicker and more direct. Our second goal showed we can teams over with the players we have.If we can fix these 2 issues we will be ok in my view. I still believe we can fix it.
Quote from: colinwhite on September 20, 2020, 01:27:19 PM
Ok we will see.Lighthouse made agood point about Parker being able to work with what hes got. I hope hes right. I still believe we will get alot more solid in the weeks to come. Possession in this league is not always a good thing. Transiton to attack is vital however and that has to become much quicker and more direct. Our second goal showed we can teams over with the players we have.If we can fix these 2 issues we will be ok in my view. I still believe we can fix it.
There have been worse this weekend. Southampton!
Good opening post.
The reactions of many on this forum after 2 games, and after 5 minutes on the matchday thread yesterday, are childish. Hero-to-zero and zero-to-hero - it's the same week after week, season after season.
Football fans are not known for their patience. Yet they are all experts in football coaching, tactics, player recruitment and the art of substitution.
It'll be a tough season but that's the way it's always been unless your team is one of the elite or happens to be in a period of ascendancy. When I chose to follow Fulham in 1958/59, my shortlist of 2 teams included Bolton (I liked the names!). I chose Fulham. I didn't want to be seen as a glory-hunter, Bolton having won the cup in 1958. I am happy with my choice, still !
I'm just really disappointed like many others that TK hasn't brought in at least 1 starting CB by now. CB has been a major issue for us for a number of years now, the fans can see it and even the pundits who hardly watch can see it as well.
Totally agree. Maybe there is a reason we dont know about. Someone really sorted that isnt official for reasons to do with the owner club. I agree we should have been three steps ahead of the game.
Quote from: colinwhite on September 20, 2020, 03:35:31 PM
Totally agree. Maybe there is a reason we dont know about. Someone really good who is already sorted that isnt official for reasons to do with the owner club. I agree we should have been three steps ahead of the game.
Quote from: Maidstone Lee on September 20, 2020, 03:11:38 PM
I'm just really disappointed like many others that TK hasn't brought in at least 1 starting CB by now. CB has been a major issue for us for a number of years now, the fans can see it and even the pundits who hardly watch can see it as well.
Do you believe he hasn't attempted to sign a CB better than the ones we currently have on our squad? If so, why do you think that?
He let Kongolo go back to Huddersfield, and our CB with the most EPL experience go to a Championship side.
We've spent almost no real transfer money this window.
Do we really think TK is the reason we haven't brought in our targets (CB and attacking players)? Or just maybe the teams on the other side of each deal simply haven't allowed the players whose contract they hold to leave before those teams can close their own new player deals.
There is probably a reason we have to wait...and it's probably not because (as some here think) TK and Javier P. aren't doing their jobs.
We are a small club (comparatively) with money. Our dealings with championship side squads, or our deals with players that aren't locks to start on their parent teams have happened.
The positions where we need huge upgrades have not.
Not everything is going to happen when we want it to.
We've gotten in two new FBs that are defensively better than what we had...and we got a keeper that is at least as good as Rodak.
Patience.
Edit: Good post Colin
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Haven't we made attempts to sign cb's and other players, but have been turned down, or plarers have gone elsewhere - which isn't necessarily to do with money/wages.
IF we mange Prem survival, we should become a more attractive prospect for players.
Top cb's are in short supply.
We don't know what goes on behind the scenes with transfer dealings.
According to Gordon Davies, Ivor, we were on the phone for players right after the play-off final last time we went into the Prem, but found it hard to get the players we wanted, and ended up bringing in players right at the last minute, who proved unsuitable, or not fully fit - except now Anguissa does seem good, with more experience and time to adjust, and ws maybe carrying an injury before.
After two games we are in some disarray . Lots of changes yesterday including Cairney dropped but we still concede four goals. Difficult to imagine what the team will look like against Villa, Mitro and Anguissa would be automatic choices but options would seem to be open for most other positions.
We lost 3-0 to Barnesly, at the Cottage...in February, in a game we needed to win.
I say that to say it's only two games. We looked competitive against both Arsenal (in form) and Leeds (media darling...on their home ground...with Denis Odoi as our starting CB).
I like the players we've brought in, and we should have more additions by the time we start playing more top 6 sides.
On to Wednesday.
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 20, 2020, 10:55:41 AM
I don't think TK is unaware of the problems in the team. I just don't think he has managed to bring in anybody of real quality and nobody in the positions we needed most. 7 goals conceded in two games. BRRRRRRR
But we once lasted 13 seasons in the Prem. Has the Prem improved in quality or the Championship got worse?
What is clear is that with the short turn around Parker still doesn't know his best players in each position for particular games. I am pretty sure that non of the players brought in are great improvements in what we already had.
It maybe just two games in. But it already feels like a wasted opportunity again. But then there is still time for the club to bring in the right players in the positions we badly need improvement. But I have more faith in Parker finding a right way to play with the players he has than the club actually bringing in the right players or the players who want to be here.
Well in our previous thirteen years in the Prem we certainly had better players than we have now. Remember for our first season we had Van Der Sar, Finan, Brevett, Legwinski, Malbranque, Clark, Goma Coleman and we were still struggling against relegation. Then a few years later Roy brought in Hangeland, Hughes, Zamora Simon Davies, Duff etc. Most of those names were way ahead of anything we have now except, of course for Mitro and Zambo both of whom are genuine Prem players.
Good to be reminded of the quality of players we previously had in the Premier League, Parker certainly has a job on his hands with the present squad,
Absolutely essential we sign that top quality centre back that we have all been crying out for since we were last here.
Quote from: filham on September 20, 2020, 06:09:11 PM
Good to be reminded of the quality of players we previously had in the Premier League, Parker certainly has a job on his hands with the present squad,
Absolutely essential we sign that top quality centre back that we have all been crying out for since we were last here.
And for our first season back I forgot to mention Saha and Boa Morte. Compare that to the team we've just come up with.
My early analysis is that we didn't have a strong enough core of players, nor a clear style of play from our Manager, to survive at this level.
Seeing Anguissa play just opens old wounds to be honest! Feels no different to our last attempt.
Milo ,we have abetter foundation to stand on this time. The core of players we have may not be better (I think it is ) but we now have a workethic ,togetherness and with a bit more genuine quality in d efense will have a stronger base to build on than last time .Time will tell
We just need to get our first point/points on the board before any of the other teams level with us and get out of the bottom three ASAP, it does wonders for confidence and team spirit.
Then we can build on it, rather than chasing the slipstreams of others which gets more difficult as the season progresses.
Once that window closes shut, we are on our own with who we have, and it will take a massive effort to avoid conceding a record number of goals.
Fight alone will not save us, it will help immensely, but if we cannot keep a clean sheet because we do not have the quality, then we are on a sticky wicket and up the creek without a paddle.
I am one of those failing to understand why we have not yet signed a top centre back. We have money, are in the premier league and are a London club with a friendly reputation, who would not want to join us.
Of course it is possible that players would feel more secure with some 18 other premier league clubs and don't want the responsibility of plugging the leakiest defense in the league. Perhaps TK has a difficult task.
In business people are entitled to mistakes. To repeat the errors over and over is unforgiveable.
TK has done just that. Being in that position is about getting the job done properly and not waiting till after the deadline to get rid of ruiz or sign hector. It is about getting the right sort of players in early, not waiting until the last mo,ment and saying how hard it all was and how brilliant I am (I know a poster above said the same but it is worth repeating!).
I had hoped against hope that scott worked better with TK and maybe would get somewhere this time , all my optimism has disipated. This season was obviously going to be hard but i had hoped we would have the right sort of players early. I am not sure re-signing players that unbdewhelmed last toime was such a good idea.
Quote from: ALG01 on September 21, 2020, 03:00:15 PM
In business people are entitled to mistakes. To repeat the errors over and over is unforgiveable.
TK has done just that. Being in that position is about getting the job done properly and not waiting till after the deadline to get rid of ruiz or sign hector. It is about getting the right sort of players in early, not waiting until the last mo,ment and saying how hard it all was and how brilliant I am (I know a poster above said the same but it is worth repeating!).
I had hoped against hope that scott worked better with TK and maybe would get somewhere this time , all my optimism has disipated. This season was obviously going to be hard but i had hoped we would have the right sort of players early. I am not sure re-signing players that unbdewhelmed last toime was such a good idea.
Where are these right sort of players and are they available.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 21, 2020, 09:10:24 AM
We just need to get our first point/points on the board before any of the other teams level with us and get out of the bottom three ASAP, it does wonders for confidence and team spirit.
Then we can build on it, rather than chasing the slipstreams of others which gets more difficult as the season progresses.
Once that window closes shut, we are on our own with who we have, and it will take a massive effort to avoid conceding a record number of goals.
Fight alone will not save us, it will help immensely, but if we cannot keep a clean sheet because we do not have the quality, then we are on a sticky wicket and up the creek without a paddle.
First point/points, hope that happens before my 70th birthday and that is in January.
Nice to get some thoughtful balanced views and feel more worried we are letting in early goals as per last time.
Can't believe a thread stating 'we are already down'
2 games in only, it's going to be a Fulham-ish season
I sense we are not an attractive club for many in that anyone joining knows we are going to be relegation favourites and a long season
We all need to keep the faith
Quote from: alfie on September 21, 2020, 03:20:12 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on September 21, 2020, 03:00:15 PM
In business people are entitled to mistakes. To repeat the errors over and over is unforgiveable.
TK has done just that. Being in that position is about getting the job done properly and not waiting till after the deadline to get rid of ruiz or sign hector. It is about getting the right sort of players in early, not waiting until the last mo,ment and saying how hard it all was and how brilliant I am (I know a poster above said the same but it is worth repeating!).
I had hoped against hope that scott worked better with TK and maybe would get somewhere this time , all my optimism has disipated. This season was obviously going to be hard but i had hoped we would have the right sort of players early. I am not sure re-signing players that unbdewhelmed last toime was such a good idea.
Where are these right sort of players and are they available.
Oh dear me, are you still at it with such comments?
They have been available for some time. Villa, Newcastle palace leeds and others have picked them up. we have sat on our hands as usual or signed players that are not entirely oven ready.
a professional team would have players by now.. under maf's profesional team we got, off the top of my head...finnan, horsefield hayles pesci, coleman, symons melville boa saha etc... such players still exist, if you have a proper DoF and we do not.
Quote from: ALG01 on September 21, 2020, 06:39:47 PM
Quote from: alfie on September 21, 2020, 03:20:12 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on September 21, 2020, 03:00:15 PM
In business people are entitled to mistakes. To repeat the errors over and over is unforgiveable.
TK has done just that. Being in that position is about getting the job done properly and not waiting till after the deadline to get rid of ruiz or sign hector. It is about getting the right sort of players in early, not waiting until the last mo,ment and saying how hard it all was and how brilliant I am (I know a poster above said the same but it is worth repeating!).
I had hoped against hope that scott worked better with TK and maybe would get somewhere this time , all my optimism has disipated. This season was obviously going to be hard but i had hoped we would have the right sort of players early. I am not sure re-signing players that unbdewhelmed last toime was such a good idea.
Where are these right sort of players and are they available.
Oh dear me, are you still at it with such comments?
They have been available for some time. Villa, Newcastle palace leeds and others have picked them up. we have sat on our hands as usual or signed players that are not entirely oven ready.
a professional team would have players by now.. under maf's profesional team we got, off the top of my head...finnan, horsefield hayles pesci, coleman, symons melville boa saha etc... such players still exist, if you have a proper DoF and we do not.
All signed with no FFP was in place. Leeds haven't signed anyone that's set the world alight. People act on here like we haven't made any signings at all
Quote from: Nero on September 21, 2020, 07:14:22 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on September 21, 2020, 06:39:47 PM
Quote from: alfie on September 21, 2020, 03:20:12 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on September 21, 2020, 03:00:15 PM
In business people are entitled to mistakes. To repeat the errors over and over is unforgiveable.
TK has done just that. Being in that position is about getting the job done properly and not waiting till after the deadline to get rid of ruiz or sign hector. It is about getting the right sort of players in early, not waiting until the last mo,ment and saying how hard it all was and how brilliant I am (I know a poster above said the same but it is worth repeating!).
I had hoped against hope that scott worked better with TK and maybe would get somewhere this time , all my optimism has disipated. This season was obviously going to be hard but i had hoped we would have the right sort of players early. I am not sure re-signing players that unbdewhelmed last toime was such a good idea.
Where are these right sort of players and are they available.
Oh dear me, are you still at it with such comments?
They have been available for some time. Villa, Newcastle palace leeds and others have picked them up. we have sat on our hands as usual or signed players that are not entirely oven ready.
a professional team would have players by now.. under maf's profesional team we got, off the top of my head...finnan, horsefield hayles pesci, coleman, symons melville boa saha etc... such players still exist, if you have a proper DoF and we do not.
All signed with no FFP was in place. Leeds haven't signed anyone that's set the world alight. People act on here like we haven't made any signings at all
Hmm no we don't. We just act like the biggest area we absolutely needed to invest in, hasn't been done yet. I'm happy with current transfers albeit disappointed in lack of CB. People like myself just aren't pretending like their aren't EPL standard CB's better than Tim Ream available in the market. It's such a poor position to take it's staggering.
Quote from: davew on September 21, 2020, 04:19:07 PM
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 21, 2020, 09:10:24 AM
We just need to get our first point/points on the board before any of the other teams level with us and get out of the bottom three ASAP, it does wonders for confidence and team spirit.
Then we can build on it, rather than chasing the slipstreams of others which gets more difficult as the season progresses.
Once that window closes shut, we are on our own with who we have, and it will take a massive effort to avoid conceding a record number of goals.
Fight alone will not save us, it will help immensely, but if we cannot keep a clean sheet because we do not have the quality, then we are on a sticky wicket and up the creek without a paddle.
First point/points, hope that happens before my 70th birthday and that is in January.
It is going to be tight davew, I am sure you will have plenty of the Vera Lynn in stock to drown your sorrows and celebrate your 70th at the same time.
Will you be blowing out 70 candles all at the same time.
Quote from: Maidstone Lee on September 20, 2020, 03:11:38 PM
I'm just really disappointed like many others that TK hasn't brought in at least 1 starting CB by now. CB has been a major issue for us for a number of years now, the fans can see it and even the pundits who hardly watch can see it as well.
Elephant in the room right there. Nothing else matters besides signing CB's.
Quote from: The Rock on September 21, 2020, 09:14:47 PM
Quote from: Maidstone Lee on September 20, 2020, 03:11:38 PM
I'm just really disappointed like many others that TK hasn't brought in at least 1 starting CB by now. CB has been a major issue for us for a number of years now, the fans can see it and even the pundits who hardly watch can see it as well.
Elephant in the room right there. Nothing else matters besides signing CB's.
I don't think you are using that expression correctly at all.
Can we still win the League, if not then is a top six place possible ?
Quote from: Sting of the North on September 22, 2020, 07:50:39 AM
Quote from: The Rock on September 21, 2020, 09:14:47 PM
Quote from: Maidstone Lee on September 20, 2020, 03:11:38 PM
I'm just really disappointed like many others that TK hasn't brought in at least 1 starting CB by now. CB has been a major issue for us for a number of years now, the fans can see it and even the pundits who hardly watch can see it as well.
Elephant in the room right there. Nothing else matters besides signing CB's.
I don't think you are using that expression correctly at all.
Has that put the Cat amongst the Pigeons ?
