I can't stand Aston Villa , I hate their supporters, I hate Jack Grealish and I f***ing hate their stupid accent,
But, I do admire them as a club, everything they are doing right is what we are currently doing wrong , they spent far more last season than we did two years ago but they had the courage to keep going whereas we appear to be frozen not knowing whether to turn back or keep going,
We quibble over thousands they just pay the asking price , Matt Targett could have signed for us but we spent months arguing over the price, it destroyed our entire transfer window as we had wasted so much time and effort on trying to sign him, then along come Villa asked Saints the price and just paid it and quickly moved on,
When was the last time you saw Villa involved in a long drawn out transfer negotiation ? It doesn't happen does it, Matty Cash, Tyrone Mings and Matt Targett , the players were identified as being the right players so they just paid the money and moved on, in the short term they may well have overpaid by two or three million but in the long term it's going to be seen as money well spent,
After three games they already look assured of Premier League football and yet (some are saying) we already look doomed,
How have Villa got it absolutely spot on and yet we've got it so disastrously wrong ?
And the signing of Ross Barkley today could well see them finish top half.
I have to say although I don't like him l think Grealish is a talented player. Yes Villa's transfer system make ours look bumbling....at best. :doh:
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Villa just signed Ross Barkley, not sure why we can never sign a prem ready and experienced player
I think the gods are with villa at the moment considering what happened last season. They deserved to be relegated,but VAR kept them up. They've made some savvy signings , so will probably have a relatively comfortable season if it's played to its conclusion and in that sense you have to hand it to them. We're a mess at the moment so we could really do with some of their luck.
They will finish top 12 this season, they've got a great squad. Not so sure about the manager. That being said, for all the money they spent (about £145m) they only stayed up by the tiniest of margins last year. Arguably one of the biggest turning points was when Sheffield United wrongly had a goal disallowed.
I expect we've spent less than £20m this window and it's now up to the owner and DOF to decide whether or not he is willing to take a risk in order for us to stay up, or whether he'd rather be conservative making it likely we get relegated. If it's the former then he will need to spend some serious money. There's still time.
I think that the players he's brought in so far have all improved the team, even if I think Rodak shouldn't have been dropped. I hope he brings in 2 cb's and at least one pacey player and avoids just panic buying on dross.
Quote from: DevonFFC on September 30, 2020, 11:11:04 AM
Villa just signed Ross Barkley, not sure why we can never sign a prem ready and experienced player
Big agree! I don't know why we have such an aversion to tried and tested players. I get the feeling TK never watched us in our 14yr PL stint,so can't understand what made us successful.
Quote from: DevonFFC on September 30, 2020, 11:11:04 AM
Villa just signed Ross Barkley, not sure why we can never sign a prem ready and experienced player
Because we have a stats mad invincible DOF
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Fine margins. Villa were on the brink of relegation and Dean Smith was facing the sack. Then the lockdown happened, they re-grouped after the re-start, had some luck with VAR against Sheffield United and got the points needed. In Jack Grealish they a talisman. I really like him and can't understand why Gareth Southgate overlooked him for so long. Good luck to them.
Villa are by far the biggest team in the Midlands let alone Birmingham which is the UK's 2nd biggest city. They have won the champions league and many other major trophies. We on the other hand have epbeen to one FA Cup final and one Euro final. Comparing Fulham to Villa is reasonable given the past 20 year when Villa have dropped way below where they should be but as a club, they are much much bigger than us. That said, they have recently acquired a very rich Chinese owner who is prepared to spend huge amounts of money on players, they got very lucky last season and are recruiting better than us, certainly spending far more, which of course we may have done if we had stayed up last time. Our owner is still spending a lot of money on players but huge amounts on infrastructure to try and elevate us so we can complete better with the big teams.
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on September 30, 2020, 11:18:01 AM
I think the gods are with villa at the moment considering what happened last season. They deserved to be relegated,but VAR kept them up. They've made some savvy signings , so will probably have a relatively comfortable season if it's played to its conclusion and in that sense you have to hand it to them. We're a mess at the moment so we could really do with some of their luck.
This is the point. When they got promoted, they were much like us in 18/19 - was a squad full of loans which lacked quality to compete so they had to throw money in building their squad (and tbf a lot of their business was converting loans to permanents).
They were very incredibly lucky to stay up despite what they spent last Summer. They've now had the time, and more money, to introduce 4 or 5 players that all improve their 1st team and should be able to consolidate their position in the league.
Sorry, I meant to mention Lewis Dunk in my original piece, he was all but ours all we had to do was close the deal, but no, we decided to haggle over a million and Brighton eventually told us to do one, Villa would have just paid the asking price and moved on,
Now thanks to the outburst of Tony Khan after the Villa game every club in Europe now knows we are desperate for a centre half, now every club we contact for a player they will automatically add £5 million because it's us,
Shocking way to do business.
Quote from: itombomb on September 30, 2020, 11:37:15 AM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on September 30, 2020, 11:18:01 AM
I think the gods are with villa at the moment considering what happened last season. They deserved to be relegated,but VAR kept them up. They've made some savvy signings , so will probably have a relatively comfortable season if it's played to its conclusion and in that sense you have to hand it to them. We're a mess at the moment so we could really do with some of their luck.
This is the point. When they got promoted, they were much like us in 18/19 - was a squad full of loans which lacked quality to compete so they had to throw money in building their squad (and tbf a lot of their business was converting loans to permanents).
They were very incredibly lucky to stay up despite what they spent last Summer. They've now had the time, and more money, to introduce 4 or 5 players that all improve their 1st team and should be able to consolidate their position in the league.
Agreed.
Staying up has enabled them to have another transfer window to strengthen.
It is fine margins and I don't think we are that far off them in reality. We lost 3 nil due to extremely poor defending, poor goalkeeping (for at least one of the goals) and the manager choosing a formation which was a total fail.
I think Mings is the only great signing they have made (funnily enough a centre half). If we had been in a situation where we could have purchased him instead of Mawson who knows how much better we would be doing.
Plus, they are lucky to have Grealish who has come through their youth system and seems to have become one of the best playmakers in the Premier league.
I don't think the original poster presented particularly good examples (though perhaps there are better ones) than Targett and Cash who are both overpriced and average. I honestly don't think they are any better than Bryan/Tete/Robinson.
It hurts to say this but we had no one making those dangerous runs into the box like Grealish.
Quote from: filham on September 30, 2020, 11:54:41 AM
It hurts to say this but we had no one making those dangerous runs into the box like Grealish.
As soon as he made those runs, we should be doubling up on him to stop him.
Thanks, Riversider, for two very erudite comments.
The comment about Targett is particularly significant in that we knew the player, we knew he slotted into the team straightaway, and yet we still haggled. If we had signed both he and Bryan what a left wing solution that would have been. We just don't have the right person doing the deals because he keeps failing to get them over the line and isn't being held to task for that failing.
Quote from: Riversider on September 30, 2020, 10:55:23 AM
I can't stand Aston Villa , I hate their supporters, I hate Jack Grealish and I f***ing hate their stupid accent,
But, I do admire them as a club, everything they are doing right is what we are currently doing wrong , they spent far more last season than we did two years ago but they had the courage to keep going whereas we appear to be frozen not knowing whether to turn back or keep going,
We quibble over thousands they just pay the asking price , Matt Targett could have signed for us but we spent months arguing over the price, it destroyed our entire transfer window as we had wasted so much time and effort on trying to sign him, then along come Villa asked Saints the price and just paid it and quickly moved on,
When was the last time you saw Villa involved in a long drawn out transfer negotiation ? It doesn't happen does it, Matty Cash, Tyrone Mings and Matt Targett , the players were identified as being the right players so they just paid the money and moved on, in the short term they may well have overpaid by two or three million but in the long term it's going to be seen as money well spent,
After three games they already look assured of Premier League football and yet (some are saying) we already look doomed,
How have Villa got it absolutely spot on and yet we've got it so disastrously wrong ?
And the signing of Ross Barkley today could well see them finish top half.
100% correct, Khan Jr is trying to emulate Levy at Tottenham. Does transfers on his terms or they won't happen.
Quote from: toshes mate on September 30, 2020, 12:00:17 PM
Thanks, Riversider, for two very erudite comments.
The comment about Targett is particularly significant in that we knew the player, we knew he slotted into the team straightaway, and yet we still haggled. If we had signed both he and Bryan what a left wing solution that would have been. We just don't have the right person doing the deals because he keeps failing to get them over the line and isn't being held to task for that failing.
It was reported Southampton wanted nearly £20m from us for Targett. I don't think we ever should have spent that much for him, and if we had we wouldn't have been able to afford Bryan.
The problem with LB last time round was not failing to sign Targett, it was not moving on much earlier and brining someone else in who offered better value. TBH most of us thought Bryan for £6m at the end of the window was a good deal.
What's wrong with Jack Grealish? Loves the club, loyal, been there since he was 8. We have not seen that kind of loyalty from some of our bright youngters. (although some of that could be because the club want to cash in)
Quote from: itombomb on September 30, 2020, 12:09:51 PM
It was reported Southampton wanted nearly £20m from us for Targett. I don't think we ever should have spent that much for him, and if we had we wouldn't have been able to afford Bryan.
The problem with LB last time round was not failing to sign Targett, it was not moving on much earlier and brining someone else in who offered better value. TBH most of us thought Bryan for £6m at the end of the window was a good deal.
The problem was perhaps that the Targett loan didn't have an option to buy and we don't know why. But notwithstanding that our DoF was splashing cash around on people who were no help to us whatsoever. You spend wisely because you know what you are trying to achieve something our DoF clearly doesn't have a clue about.
Quote from: FulhamStu on September 30, 2020, 11:35:55 AM
Villa are by far the biggest team in the Midlands let alone Birmingham which is the UK's 2nd biggest city. They have won the champions league and many other major trophies. We on the other hand have epbeen to one FA Cup final and one Euro final. Comparing Fulham to Villa is reasonable given the past 20 year when Villa have dropped way below where they should be but as a club, they are much much bigger than us. That said, they have recently acquired a very rich Chinese owner who is prepared to spend huge amounts of money on players, they got very lucky last season and are recruiting better than us, certainly spending far more, which of course we may have done if we had stayed up last time. Our owner is still spending a lot of money on players but huge amounts on infrastructure to try and elevate us so we can complete better with the big teams.
Is that you, Andy Townsend?
Quote from: DevonFFC on September 30, 2020, 11:11:04 AM
Villa just signed Ross Barkley, not sure why we can never sign a prem ready and experienced player
He would have been a terrific loan signing for us.
We are screaming out for a #10 to inject some creativity in to our attack and help support Mitro when we have the ball forward.
He would have been a great acquisition.
Quote from: itombomb on September 30, 2020, 12:09:51 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on September 30, 2020, 12:00:17 PM
Thanks, Riversider, for two very erudite comments.
The comment about Targett is particularly significant in that we knew the player, we knew he slotted into the team straightaway, and yet we still haggled. If we had signed both he and Bryan what a left wing solution that would have been. We just don't have the right person doing the deals because he keeps failing to get them over the line and isn't being held to task for that failing.
It was reported Southampton wanted nearly £20m from us for Targett. I don't think we ever should have spent that much for him, and if we had we wouldn't have been able to afford Bryan.
The problem with LB last time round was not failing to sign Targett, it was not moving on much earlier and brining someone else in who offered better value. TBH most of us thought Bryan for £6m at the end of the window was a good deal.
Mark Hughes was manager at the time, he had a 'bee in his bonnet' about the club, so kept on increasing the transfer fee, from memory.
I said, after we beat them in the play off , that the first thing we should do is sign Jack Grealish. Pay them whatever, he's got Premier League written all over him. And he's exactly the kind of fighting, snarling, but classy midfielder we need.
Quote from: rebel on September 30, 2020, 12:22:03 PM
Quote from: itombomb on September 30, 2020, 12:09:51 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on September 30, 2020, 12:00:17 PM
Thanks, Riversider, for two very erudite comments.
The comment about Targett is particularly significant in that we knew the player, we knew he slotted into the team straightaway, and yet we still haggled. If we had signed both he and Bryan what a left wing solution that would have been. We just don't have the right person doing the deals because he keeps failing to get them over the line and isn't being held to task for that failing.
It was reported Southampton wanted nearly £20m from us for Targett. I don't think we ever should have spent that much for him, and if we had we wouldn't have been able to afford Bryan.
The problem with LB last time round was not failing to sign Targett, it was not moving on much earlier and brining someone else in who offered better value. TBH most of us thought Bryan for £6m at the end of the window was a good deal.
Mark Hughes was manager at the time, he had a 'bee in his bonnet' about the club, so kept on increasing the transfer fee, from memory.
A transfer fee would have little or nothing to do with a coach/first team manager.
Villa hasn't done anything special and doesn't deserve any special praise. We are just a runaway train wreck under Khan.
Quote from: Riversider on September 30, 2020, 10:55:23 AM
I can't stand Aston Villa , I hate their supporters, I hate Jack Grealish and I f***ing hate their stupid accent,
But, I do admire them as a club, everything they are doing right is what we are currently doing wrong , they spent far more last season than we did two years ago but they had the courage to keep going whereas we appear to be frozen not knowing whether to turn back or keep going,
We quibble over thousands they just pay the asking price , Matt Targett could have signed for us but we spent months arguing over the price, it destroyed our entire transfer window as we had wasted so much time and effort on trying to sign him, then along come Villa asked Saints the price and just paid it and quickly moved on,
When was the last time you saw Villa involved in a long drawn out transfer negotiation ? It doesn't happen does it, Matty Cash, Tyrone Mings and Matt Targett , the players were identified as being the right players so they just paid the money and moved on, in the short term they may well have overpaid by two or three million but in the long term it's going to be seen as money well spent,
After three games they already look assured of Premier League football and yet (some are saying) we already look doomed,
How have Villa got it absolutely spot on and yet we've got it so disastrously wrong ?
And the signing of Ross Barkley today could well see them finish top half.
To me this just sounds like it's based on results and not on actually knowing the intricacies of the transfer dealings of respective club, so maybe your criticism should be scattered around all that much? Personally I have no good account over how many deals VIlla try, how long it takes and if they generally gets their main targets or not. I also don't think overall Villa did better than us the first window after promotion as most of their signings were quite bad. The only big, and admittedly very important, difference is that they somehow managed to survive despite being basically crap all season, whereas we managed to be even more crap and got relegated.
There was nothing particularly wrong with our summer transfer window last time around, as we basically did what we had to do. The problems were more that we were desperately ill equipped to begin with (all those loans without options), and that the Khan's obviously did not trust Joka enough and were all too eager with their trigger finger when what we desperately needed was as much stability as possible. Just a little more composure from upper management and we may as well have done what Villa did and survived. Those are fine margins.
I can understand why TK is criticized for not getting important deals over the line, but since I don't know why he fails I would not aim my critique on particular aspects but just conclude that it is not good enough. Doesn't matter why so I don't have to rage on about him "quibble over thousands" because I have no way of knowing if that is even the case.
To conclude, I don't think Villa is a very good example on how to survive if we are talking about transfers. They spent a lot of money and got very little return.
Quote from: Sting of the North on September 30, 2020, 01:45:11 PM
Quote from: Riversider on September 30, 2020, 10:55:23 AM
I can't stand Aston Villa , I hate their supporters, I hate Jack Grealish and I f***ing hate their stupid accent,
But, I do admire them as a club, everything they are doing right is what we are currently doing wrong , they spent far more last season than we did two years ago but they had the courage to keep going whereas we appear to be frozen not knowing whether to turn back or keep going,
We quibble over thousands they just pay the asking price , Matt Targett could have signed for us but we spent months arguing over the price, it destroyed our entire transfer window as we had wasted so much time and effort on trying to sign him, then along come Villa asked Saints the price and just paid it and quickly moved on,
When was the last time you saw Villa involved in a long drawn out transfer negotiation ? It doesn't happen does it, Matty Cash, Tyrone Mings and Matt Targett , the players were identified as being the right players so they just paid the money and moved on, in the short term they may well have overpaid by two or three million but in the long term it's going to be seen as money well spent,
After three games they already look assured of Premier League football and yet (some are saying) we already look doomed,
How have Villa got it absolutely spot on and yet we've got it so disastrously wrong ?
And the signing of Ross Barkley today could well see them finish top half.
To me this just sounds like it's based on results and not on actually knowing the intricacies of the transfer dealings of respective club, so maybe your criticism should be scattered around all that much? Personally I have no good account over how many deals VIlla try, how long it takes and if they generally gets their main targets or not. I also don't think overall Villa did better than us the first window after promotion as most of their signings were quite bad. The only big, and admittedly very important, difference is that they somehow managed to survive despite being basically crap all season, whereas we managed to be even more crap and got relegated.
There was nothing particularly wrong with our summer transfer window last time around, as we basically did what we had to do. The problems were more that we were desperately ill equipped to begin with (all those loans without options), and that the Khan's obviously did not trust Joka enough and were all too eager with their trigger finger when what we desperately needed was as much stability as possible. Just a little more composure from upper management and we may as well have done what Villa did and survived. Those are fine margins.
I can understand why TK is criticized for not getting important deals over the line, but since I don't know why he fails I would not aim my critique on particular aspects but just conclude that it is not good enough. Doesn't matter why so I don't have to rage on about him "quibble over thousands" because I have no way of knowing if that is even the case.
To conclude, I don't think Villa is a very good example on how to survive if we are talking about transfers. They spent a lot of money and got very little return.
"They spent a lot of money and got very little return" , oh really, care to enlighten us on how much Tyrone Mings is currently worth ? £40 million ? £50 million ?
And you don't think Villa is a good example of how to survive , they will finish above us that's 100% guaranteed, every chance they will finish top 12, not bad for their second season,
Villa and Wolves have both added some quality acquisition's it what seems to be a structured and considered approach, whereby we seem to sign players in the hope that the piece will fit,
Measure twice, cut one, have we even got a tape measure.
To think it was only just over 2 years ago that we beat Villa in the play-off final to get promoted to the PL.
What a change in fortunes.
Yeah they have improved this year but last year was as scattergun as us in 18/19. Shame we didn't get the amount of luck like a clear goal for sheff United Not being given because goal line tech failed or playing arsenal 3 days after they beat city in fa cup semi final. Stayed up by a point.
We really can't judge how good Villa are, simply because we didn't turn up and perform. There was little or no cohesion from the team. We looked disjointed and very poor in all areas.
The reason Villa look midtable ( other than us being terrible) is their manager is competent and experienced.
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They basically managed to scrape over the line last season (mainly due to the lockdown, and subsequent restart) as well as some questionable VAR decisions.
Ultimately, I feel if we had managed to just survive in 2018 then we would have also had a really good team going into that second season. Its thin margins and you need to get through that first year so you can shift the lesser quality players and really transition into a prem team.
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on September 30, 2020, 11:18:36 AM
They will finish top 12 this season, they've got a great squad.
Really?
IMO with 2-3 additions we'd be as good as them on paper, best XI vs best XI.
Two of them being CBs.
Reckon they'll be closer to 18th than 12th.
I love the way some of you are dribbling about Villa. Goals aside they weren't that much better than us considering they were promoted the year before and are again spending big. We have a chance to come good. We are three games into the season that is all. It will be put right and there will be other clubs around us. Ok it will not be a great season but we never expected it to be
Quote from: Andy S on September 30, 2020, 03:39:47 PM
I love the way some of you are dribbling about Villa. Goals aside they weren't that much better than us considering they were promoted the year before and are again spending big. We have a chance to come good. We are three games into the season that is all. It will be put right and there will be other clubs around us. Ok it will not be a great season but we never expected it to be
Agree 100%.
Quote from: Riversider on September 30, 2020, 10:55:23 AM
I can't stand Aston Villa , I hate their supporters, I hate Jack Grealish and I f***ing hate their stupid accent,
But, I do admire them as a club, everything they are doing right is what we are currently doing wrong , they spent far more last season than we did two years ago but they had the courage to keep going whereas we appear to be frozen not knowing whether to turn back or keep going,
We quibble over thousands they just pay the asking price , Matt Targett could have signed for us but we spent months arguing over the price, it destroyed our entire transfer window as we had wasted so much time and effort on trying to sign him, then along come Villa asked Saints the price and just paid it and quickly moved on,
When was the last time you saw Villa involved in a long drawn out transfer negotiation ? It doesn't happen does it, Matty Cash, Tyrone Mings and Matt Targett , the players were identified as being the right players so they just paid the money and moved on, in the short term they may well have overpaid by two or three million but in the long term it's going to be seen as money well spent,
After three games they already look assured of Premier League football and yet (some are saying) we already look doomed,
How have Villa got it absolutely spot on and yet we've got it so disastrously wrong ?
And the signing of Ross Barkley today could well see them finish top half.
Please stop with the comparisons. You wouldn't have said this two years ago when they looked likely to be stuck in the Championship for as longs as Leeds. Support Fulham!
Quote from: NJFulham on September 30, 2020, 02:56:54 PM
The reason Villa look midtable ( other than us being terrible) is their manager is competent and experienced.
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Wasn't he close to being fired last year? I am sure he's quite good. I don't dislike him. He almost didn't keep Villa up last year.
Quote from: toshes mate on September 30, 2020, 12:00:17 PM
Thanks, Riversider, for two very erudite comments.
The comment about Targett is particularly significant in that we knew the player, we knew he slotted into the team straightaway, and yet we still haggled. If we had signed both he and Bryan what a left wing solution that would have been. We just don't have the right person doing the deals because he keeps failing to get them over the line and isn't being held to task for that failing.
because is only answerable to his own father, I'm sure any opinions he made read from our forum is just dismissed. That us - some of us played,watched and even refereed over a period (for me) 60 years. It seems our views mean nothing.
I regularly look at a Villa forum that I signed up to round about the playoff final, it was mainly after reading on there about 10000 villa fans in the Fulham end, I managed to put them straight about it saying it was our biggest domestic game in over 40 years, last season they had an article on there asking are if they doing a Fulham!! Matt Targett was getting slaughtered on there fairly regularly, I also said on there there are one of top ten teams in England, I have always had good banter on the site they got lucky last season but finished quite well and started well this season, they have bought well this season, if we manage to get out of the poo we in at the moment, Villa won't be one of teams we'll be fighting to stay up
Quote from: Riversider on September 30, 2020, 02:38:51 PM
"They spent a lot of money and got very little return" , oh really, care to enlighten us on how much Tyrone Mings is currently worth ? £40 million ? £50 million ?
And you don't think Villa is a good example of how to survive , they will finish above us that's 100% guaranteed, every chance they will finish top 12, not bad for their second season,
Villa and Wolves have both added some quality acquisition's it what seems to be a structured and considered approach, whereby we seem to sign players in the hope that the piece will fit,
Measure twice, cut one, have we even got a tape measure.
We also acquired players that will give a good return for the money, if that is what you believe that I meant. But I of course meant that they barely improved their team by their scatter gun approach of throwing money around, which if anything is very similar to what we did two years ago. Their key players were all players that was there the year before and most new recruits failed.
And on the off chance that you are in the slightest interested in the opinion of someone else, no, they are not a good example on how to survive because contrary to what you seem to believe I don't believe that have had a very structured and considered approach at all. They spent a huge amount of money, played crap football and managed to survive by the skin of their teeth (and some unbelievable VAR decision). Perhaps they have been a little better this time around (although the jury is of course still out), but that is not what we discussed.
To compare them to Wolves is in my opinion way off the mark as Wolves did so much better in all aspects. Unfortunately unless a team can find a Mendes, that is not a feasible the way to survive either.
I think both us and Villa have shown that even if you throw a lot of money on the team, it will for most promoted teams be a real struggle. If you are lucky enough to survive that first season, then hopefully you will have time to really start pushing on. Not that I think that Villa will avoid a relegation battle this year either, but we'll see of course.
Quote from: Riversider on September 30, 2020, 11:51:10 AM
Sorry, I meant to mention Lewis Dunk in my original piece, he was all but ours all we had to do was close the deal, but no, we decided to haggle over a million and Brighton eventually told us to do one, Villa would have just paid the asking price and moved on,
Now thanks to the outburst of Tony Khan after the Villa game every club in Europe now knows we are desperate for a centre half, now every club we contact for a player they will automatically add £5 million because it's us,
Shocking way to do business.
I don't know that will be the case. There are a lot of teams hurting right now because of revenue decreases due to COVID. Some will be forced to lower their prices and take what's on offer or risk getting nothing when they need some cash. Let's judge on Monday evening what we did with the rest of this summer's plan, and then there's another 10 days or whatever to further consider Championship targets.
I think the question of how much money WE have/are willing to spend is a bigger question.
Quote from: Riversider on September 30, 2020, 10:55:23 AM
After three games they already look assured of Premier League football...
How have Villa got it absolutely spot on...
Riversider,
No one would have said either of these things about Villa 12 months ago.
Just goes to show how things can change for the better within the space of a couple of transfer windows.
Two seasons ago, you posted something very similar to this. On that occasion, the club you praised for its acumen in the transfer market was Bournemouth. Like Villa now, Bournemouth were everything that we weren't.
Just goes to show how things can change for the worse within the space of a couple of transfer windows.
Quote from: Arthur on September 30, 2020, 08:43:41 PM
Quote from: Riversider on September 30, 2020, 10:55:23 AM
After three games they already look assured of Premier League football...
How have Villa got it absolutely spot on...
Riversider,
No one would have said either of these things about Villa 12 months ago.
Just goes to show how things can change for the better within the space of a couple of transfer windows.
Two seasons ago, you posted something very similar to this. On that occasion, the club you praised for its acumen in the transfer market was Bournemouth. Like Villa now, Bournemouth were everything that we weren't.
Just goes to show how things can change for the worse within the space of a couple of transfer windows.
It was what was being said of us (Villa) 12 months ago. It wasn%u2019t until a poor run in December and then into the New Year did we drop away badly. Until then we were hovering around 15th or so.
I think there was a big difference between how you and then us approached out transfers after promotion. A lot of ours were simply because loans became transfers as well as having to replace those released or their contracts having expired. From the outside you appeared to try and add too many first into what was already a largely settled first team. Those players largely failed and you failed to build experience in any newly bought players.
Of those we bought many were in the squad on Monday - Targett; Mings; Konsa;Trezeguet; Nakamba, whilst there were also players that we had in the Championship- Grealish; McGinn; Hourihane; Elmohamady; Davis. Now these players look like they have had the experience of an extra season in the Premier League.
I do think there was a sizeable gulf between the two and the first was the lack of adaptability once plan A wasn%u2019t working. We started out looking to attack last season and the biggest benefit to us wasn%u2019t the ghost goal (%u2018scored%u2019 in the first half) as anything could have still happened in the game, but lockdown. We changed our style of play and allowed the opposition to have the ball and looked to counter. That%u2019s how we played agai st you and in all honesty it felt like a Carabao Cup game against a Championship side. We didn%u2019t extend ourselves because we didn%u2019t need to. Plus it was only the second league game for us so fitness levels not quite there.
I would worry for you because you do not look to have much other than the ball into Mitrovic. He needs runners off him and the back four needs better protection. Your midfield played pretty football in areas that couldn%u2019t hurt us but then failed to track back or protect the back three.
It%u2019s only 3 games in but you%u2019re way off where we were 3 games in last season and unless you change manager I think you%u2019re going to be in a lot of trouble.
Quote from: peter w on September 30, 2020, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: Arthur on September 30, 2020, 08:43:41 PM
Quote from: Riversider on September 30, 2020, 10:55:23 AM
After three games they already look assured of Premier League football...
How have Villa got it absolutely spot on...
Riversider,
No one would have said either of these things about Villa 12 months ago.
It was what was being said of us (Villa) 12 months ago.
It seems I must amend my previous post:
No one but Villa fans wearing rose-tinted spectacles (who were clearly being overly optimistic, seeing as their team's P.L. status wasn't assured until the final whistle blew on the final game of their season) would have said either of these things about Villa 12 months ago.
Before we sing the praises of Aston Villa 2019 recruitment, let me remind you that Aston Villa only nine players had better statistics last season in the premier league than Maxime Le Marchand in 2018/19 (and his statistics were pretty poor), we had four outfield players with good statistics Mitro, Babel, Chambers and Anguissa.
The difference between our two teams statistically was Jack Grelish, John McGinn and Frédéric Guilbert that is all, these were the three best players statistically and were all at the club before the playoff final. We didn't have enough succesful players from the championship transition into top premier league players. Not all our signiong were good, but most of Aston Villas signings weren't good enough either, but they were carried by Grelish, McGinn and Guilbert.
Quote from: Arthur on October 01, 2020, 12:43:18 AM
Quote from: peter w on September 30, 2020, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: Arthur on September 30, 2020, 08:43:41 PM
Quote from: Riversider on September 30, 2020, 10:55:23 AM
After three games they already look assured of Premier League football...
How have Villa got it absolutely spot on...
Riversider,
No one would have said either of these things about Villa 12 months ago.
It was what was being said of us (Villa) 12 months ago.
It seems I must amend my previous post:
No one but Villa fans wearing rose-tinted spectacles (who were clearly being overly optimistic, seeing as their team's P.L. status wasn't assured until the final whistle blew on the final game of their season) would have said either of these things about Villa 12 months ago.
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:005:
Quote from: Arthur on October 01, 2020, 12:43:18 AM
Quote from: peter w on September 30, 2020, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: Arthur on September 30, 2020, 08:43:41 PM
Quote from: Riversider on September 30, 2020, 10:55:23 AM
After three games they already look assured of Premier League football...
How have Villa got it absolutely spot on...
Riversider,
No one would have said either of these things about Villa 12 months ago.
It was what was being said of us (Villa) 12 months ago.
It seems I must amend my previous post:
No one but Villa fans wearing rose-tinted spectacles (who were clearly being overly optimistic, seeing as their team's P.L. status wasn't assured until the final whistle blew on the final game of their season) would have said either of these things about Villa 12 months ago.
Seeing that the final whistle wasn't blown on the season 12 months ago then yes you ought to amend your post. No problem if not being wrong is okay.
Quote from: The Rational Fan on October 01, 2020, 02:36:22 AM
Before we sing the praises of Aston Villa 2019 recruitment, let me remind you that Aston Villa only nine players had better statistics last season in the premier league than Maxime Le Marchand in 2018/19 (and his statistics were pretty poor), we had four outfield players with good statistics Mitro, Babel, Chambers and Anguissa.
The difference between our two teams statistically was Jack Grelish, John McGinn and Frédéric Guilbert that is all, these were the three best players statistically and were all at the club before the playoff final. We didn't have enough succesful players from the championship transition into top premier league players. Not all our signiong were good, but most of Aston Villas signings weren't good enough either, but they were carried by Grelish, McGinn and Guilbert.
Guilbert? You loon.
Mane, one of Liverpool's best players has Covid & is in quarantine. Villa really seem to have Lady Luck on their side.
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on September 30, 2020, 11:20:24 AM
Quote from: DevonFFC on September 30, 2020, 11:11:04 AM
Villa just signed Ross Barkley, not sure why we can never sign a prem ready and experienced player
Big agree! I don't know why we have such an aversion to tried and tested players. I get the feeling TK never watched us in our 14yr PL stint,so can't understand what made us successful.
Maybe the tried and tested players have an aversion to us.
I belive, getting back to Riversider's OP, that football folk, as in those who run clubs, manage clubs, play for clubs and so on have reasonably effective memories and that means they will not have forgotten our DoF's spending spree, his sacking of two managers he had sought out and appointed when the fault was demonstrably the lack of appropriate players for a PL squad and what followed from that. All of it was and is simply bad publicity for this Club. Remember the three players from the wrong end of the Fulham Road who toured Motspur Park and turned us down? Something is rotten in the State of Fulham and until it is removed the stench will stick around us.
Obviously this cannot happen until the transfer window is completely closed but I do hope Khan Senior can exercise his better judgement and command an incoming replacement for Javier with a view to upgrading them to DoF (with full management responsibility for coaching too) a.s.a.p. Perhaps then we will see some harmony and positive improvement all around us and a Parker with a good supporting voice to listen to and learn.
As I was saying, they look a decent side to me, anybody want to change their opinion ? 😁
Quote from: Riversider on October 04, 2020, 08:14:21 PM
As I was saying, they look a decent side to me, anybody want to change their opinion ? 😁
It's early days, this isn't a typical 'Liverpool Performance'.
Quote from: rebel on October 04, 2020, 08:37:54 PM
Quote from: Riversider on October 04, 2020, 08:14:21 PM
As I was saying, they look a decent side to me, anybody want to change their opinion ? 😁
It's early days, this isn't a typical 'Liverpool Performance'.
[/quoteQuote from: rebel on October 04, 2020, 08:37:54 PM
Quote from: Riversider on October 04, 2020, 08:14:21 PM
As I was saying, they look a decent side to me, anybody want to change their opinion ? 😁
It's early days, this isn't a typical 'Liverpool Performance'.
Liverpool have look shakey all season at the back but have managed to win. Thing a lot of laurel sitting going on. Think they must need two more CB there DOF must be inexperienced and useless
maybe no one wants to get close due to covid?
but defending is poor everywhere this season in the prem
This Villa team is absolutely full of pace and grafters. I'd be very excited to be a fan especially after the Barkley signing. REally changed my opinion knowing they have a quick and strong Watkins and quick, athletic ballers like Grealish and Barkley feeding him. I've also been a massive admirer of Konsa and was gutted when we didn't get him. Everyone talks about Mings but Konsa for me, is the real player in that backline.
Targett, Cash, Traore, and Watkins. Four players with whom Fulham was negotiating, if one believes the press, and the club could not sign one of them. It says it all.
Quote from: NewYorkYank on October 04, 2020, 11:49:08 PM
Targett, Cash, Traore, and Watkins. Four players with whom Fulham was negotiating, if one believes the press, and the club could not sign one of them. It says it all.
I believe the key part of your sentence is "if one believes the press"...
Quote from: Sting of the North on October 05, 2020, 08:08:46 AM
Quote from: NewYorkYank on October 04, 2020, 11:49:08 PM
Targett, Cash, Traore, and Watkins. Four players with whom Fulham was negotiating, if one believes the press, and the club could not sign one of them. It says it all.
I believe the key part of your sentence is "if one believes the press"...
Ah, but, no statistical database would be complete without them ... and do you serioulsy believe we wouldn't, at least, have tested the water?
Quote from: NewYorkYank on October 04, 2020, 11:49:08 PM
Targett, Cash, Traore, and Watkins. Four players with whom Fulham was negotiating, if one believes the press, and the club could not sign one of them. It says it all.
Not really. It just says they've had their pants pulled down, yet again. They paid £80-90m for those four and yet in Bryan/Robinson, Tete, Lookman and Mitrovic we have players that are at least as good, yet apparently we're going to relegated with less points than Derby.
Our squad will probably be as good as theirs in 14 hours from now - just need a couple of CBs and perhaps another attacker.
Quote from: toshes mate on October 05, 2020, 08:57:40 AM
Quote from: Sting of the North on October 05, 2020, 08:08:46 AM
Quote from: NewYorkYank on October 04, 2020, 11:49:08 PM
Targett, Cash, Traore, and Watkins. Four players with whom Fulham was negotiating, if one believes the press, and the club could not sign one of them. It says it all.
I believe the key part of your sentence is "if one believes the press"...
Ah, but, no statistical database would be complete without them ... and do you serioulsy believe we wouldn't, at least, have tested the water?
I believe there is an important distinction between having negotiated or "testing the waters" but I don't know if others agree since it is a subjective distinction perhaps. I also don't think that we even "test the waters" with every player available. That's why I don't agree that the fact that we didn't sign any of them (obviously, because if we signed them there would be complaints about other players we didn't sign) "says it all". It only says that if you pay enough you may get decent or even good players if you can persuade them to come. But since we cannot sign hundreds of players we won't sign everyone that might have been a potentially good signing. Not sure I would have had Traoré over Lookman or Cash over Tete, but time will tell of course.
Quote from: Sting of the North on October 05, 2020, 09:44:42 AM
I believe there is an important distinction between having negotiated or "testing the waters" but I don't know if others agree since it is a subjective distinction perhaps. I also don't think that we even "test the waters" with every player available. That's why I don't agree that the fact that we didn't sign any of them (obviously, because if we signed them there would be complaints about other players we didn't sign) "says it all". It only says that if you pay enough you may get decent or even good players if you can persuade them to come. But since we cannot sign hundreds of players we won't sign everyone that might have been a potentially good signing. Not sure I would have had Traoré over Lookman or Cash over Tete, but time will tell of course.
I wrote a previous comment that the database prints out the same players for all clubc with redlines on the ones that are not feasible for whatever reason. The absence of a redline means consideration be that a cursory mention in a recruitment meeting or whatever. That is running the bath water. The meeting is therefore, by its essence, testing the water even if it chooses to move on very quickly. A 'phone call following a meeting may suggest something more substantial like 'showing an interest' at the very least.
