Whatever one's opinion of Mitrovic, he and Lookman are clearly 'chalk and cheese'.
Lookman has already shown he has quicker feet, better close control and more pace than Mitrovic. He is lively and dynamic - not qualities associated with Mitrovic.
Lookman, with his back to goal, is capable of turning his marker. He can create a goalscoring opportunity for himself. Mitrovic almost never does either of these things.
Watching us fail to turn our second-half performance into a winning lead, I wondered whether we would have fared better with Lookman as our main striker. His goal showed he possesses a powerful shot. If he can consistently strike shooting chances as well as this, it would be another aspect of his game in which he is superior to Mitrovic.
Mitrovic's strengths are best served by crosses pulled back from the by-line - not something we manage often. (Twice today, by my count - a low number, and yet still more, I reckon, than in any other game so far.) Need we be so limited? One solution, one alternative, would be for Parker to try Lookman up front - operating down the middle and in the channels - and play with a main striker whose strengths are on the deck. Let's dispense with our ineffective wingers and use our full-backs for width on the flanks. Mitrovic would be an excellent option off the bench if we were trying to force a result and were pushing players forward in greater numbers.
I don't suppose Parker will leave out Mitrovic any game soon. But if our 'star' striker, week-upon-week, is having less of an impact than Ademola, increasingly I shall be hoping Scott will give it a go.
It's totally different playing up top to a midfield/attacking type player. Having your back to goal is a lot easier when midfielders and full backs are picking you up to having two centre backs marking you. He is amazing at running at players and you want to take that part of him out of the game. Bobby Reid is a good example. Last season his end product wasn't great but he worked the wing and am roles quite well. He was absolutely crap when he played up top, a complete waste of space.
I'm not getting carried away with Lookman just yet. There were lots of times where he neglected the opportunity to give it to Robinson on the overlap and somewhat selfishly dribbled to towards goal himself. He won't get too much stick for it today because he got the goal. But for me it's reminiscent of Knockaert when we first signed him, during the brief period when he's actually score occasionally.
Quote from: Statto on October 18, 2020, 09:47:56 PM
I'm not getting carried away with Lookman just yet. There were lots of times where he neglected the opportunity to give it to Robinson on the overlap and somewhat selfishly dribbled to towards goal himself. He won't get too much stick for it today because he got the goal. But for me it's reminiscent of Knockaert when we first signed him, during the brief period when he's actually score occasionally.
He looks way better than Knockaert did - and at a higher level
He's a better version of Knockaert, but I agree with Statto. Plus he's only one and a half games in and he previously hasn't really cut it in the top flight in England or Germany.
A promising start for sure, but that's all so far. I would see him play well in the position we have bought him in for before moving him elsewhere.
Quote from: @jolslover on October 18, 2020, 09:49:11 PM
Quote from: Statto on October 18, 2020, 09:47:56 PM
I'm not getting carried away with Lookman just yet. There were lots of times where he neglected the opportunity to give it to Robinson on the overlap and somewhat selfishly dribbled to towards goal himself. He won't get too much stick for it today because he got the goal. But for me it's reminiscent of Knockaert when we first signed him, during the brief period when he's actually score occasionally.
He looks way better than Knockaert did - and at a higher level
I agree he's miles better than Knockaert of course, but my recollection is that Knockaert looked decent at first, probably as good (relative to the division we were in) as Lookman has been so far
Quote from: fulhamben on October 18, 2020, 09:21:20 PM
It's totally different playing up top to a midfield/attacking type player. Having your back to goal is a lot easier when midfielders and full backs are picking you up to having two centre backs marking you.
I agree it's not easy. Mitrovic, however, has thus far shown little sign he will trouble opposition defences greatly. If this continues to be so, playing Lookman as the main striker is the one alternative I can see that might turn out to be better.
Quote from: fulhamben on October 18, 2020, 09:21:20 PM
He is amazing at running at players and you want to take that part of him out of the game.
Yes, there is a risk this may happen. It depends how we get the ball to him. On the edge of the box with his back to goal is a different matter to receiving it with his back to goal on the half-way line. Likely, the latter is not how we want to use him. On the other hand, if we can get the ball into the channels, Lookman can collect the ball in a similar position to those he found himself in today - only instead of having the entire Sheffield defence in front of him, he may sometimes find himself one-on-one with a centre back.
Quote from: fulhamben on October 18, 2020, 09:21:20 PM
Bobby Reid is a good example. Last season his end product wasn't great but he worked the wing and am roles quite well. He was absolutely crap when he played up top, a complete waste of space.
And Lookman's end product - as he showed - isn't 'crap'. Not the same necessity, therefore, to confine him to the wing.
I get that moving Lookman into a more attacking role will detract from our midfield department. In an ideal situation, Mitrovic's technique would be on a par with Lookman's and we'd be fine as we are. But Mitrovic, I think I'm right in saying, hasn't scored a goal with his feet in open play in his last 23 Premier League games. Worryingly poor. In suggesting that Lookman could be deployed as our main striker, I'm thinking about at the overall success of the team.
As said above a good start by Lookman and he could be key to our season but let's not give him grief if he has a poor game or two.
All players do have indifferent spells at some point.
As good as Lookman is I don't think he could offer what Mitro does up front.
You're right spikey.
Mitro can play with his his back to goal, holding the ball up with his strength, and laying it off, and is also a focal point for crosses, as well as his defending skills.
While Lookman, runs from midfield, going past defenders , and bursting into the box, and shooting, but would be wasted trying to play in Mitro's role, as said re BDR.
But it's good we now have these options, players who can take defenders on and go past them, and shoot or make a killing pass, instead of just relying on crosses to Mitro.
These players seem to help Cairney's play too
I think it is far too early to assess whether or not Lookman will be a real game changer, but he's certainly gone off to a great start in my opinion. Whether his end product is better than that of Cav or Knockaert also remains to be seem, given the very small sample size so far. Pick one or two games from any player and they might look good. Hopefully though he will continue to impress, just as I hope a player like Tosin is actually the real deal.
Lookman needs a target man to succeed. Would love to see a front 2. (442 diamond).
Mitrovic to draw defenders out and win duels, with Lookman playing on the last man.
Play him off Mitro, big man little man, not quite Quinn & Phillips but the way teams are defending at the moment, think these two in tandem could have a field day.
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Interesting that 'we' are not going overboard with the so far impressive Lookman. I suppose Seri and Hector still haunt some of us as the next big thing that faded badly. Mitrovic had the quintessential mare on Sunday but he has not looked the part for a while. 4.4.2 offers much but it possibly would not feature either Mitrovic or Cairney. Lookman/AK, Lookman/BDR, Lookman/Kebano are all combinations of the smallest frontline in the Prem but we have height and strength across the team now.
There I go dammit, building the team around the newbie, but I would try it, risk it against Palace. You just know their centre backs will shut Mitrovic down.
Quote from: RaySmith on October 19, 2020, 05:08:51 AM
You're right spikey.
Mitro can play with his his back to goal, holding the ball up with his strength, and laying it off, and is also a focal point for crosses, as well as his defending skills.
While Lookman, runs from midfield, going past defenders , and bursting into the box, and shooting, but would be wasted trying to play in Mitro's role, as said re BDR.
I absolutely agree that to ask Lookman to play the way Mitrovic does would be daft. I have no expectation that Lookman would be winning aerial duels against six-foot centre-backs. The option it may offer us (and I wouldn't profess for one moment to have the coaching knowledge to be confident it would work) is that, instead of always playing the ball into Mitrovic's body with his back to goal in-and-around the centre circle, we can pass into the spaces beyond and around defenders for Lookman to pick up the ball facing our opponents goal. Such a change would also, of course, mean that we need midfield players to get forward in support of Lookman so that he is not always left to 'go it alone'.
I'm not suggesting we simply swap Mitrovic for Lookman up front and carry on playing the same way. With Mitrovic, there is almost always nothing to be gained in trying to play the ball behind the defender to run onto because pretty much every opponent can easily out-pace him. With Lookman, we may be able to play this way - a different way.
We all hope Mitrovic's current run of form is merely temporary - a lull before he bursts into life and lives up to his reputation. My worry, however, is that such performances from him will be the exception rather than the norm. There are, of course, other ways of trying to improve our forward play which do not involve dropping Mitrovic (which I imagine Parker would implement first). But my hunch, and this is all it is, is that playing in the fastest-paced league in Europe with the slowest of strikers who has no particular footwork skills is not our best ploy when we appear to have, in Lookman (and I understand why others here are cautious as to whether he can be consistent), an attacking player who is both more nimble and - even more importantly - highly skilled.
Quote from: Statto on October 18, 2020, 09:47:56 PM
I'm not getting carried away with Lookman just yet. There were lots of times where he neglected the opportunity to give it to Robinson on the overlap and somewhat selfishly dribbled to towards goal himself. He won't get too much stick for it today because he got the goal. But for me it's reminiscent of Knockaert when we first signed him, during the brief period when he's actually score occasionally.
I agree with you, I do not recall him using robinson once and that is bad.
He scored a cracker and got massively praised in the media but there were some poor things too.
Quote from: Statto on October 18, 2020, 09:47:56 PM
I'm not getting carried away with Lookman just yet. There were lots of times where he neglected the opportunity to give it to Robinson on the overlap and somewhat selfishly dribbled to towards goal himself. He won't get too much stick for it today because he got the goal. But for me it's reminiscent of Knockaert when we first signed him, during the brief period when he's actually score occasionally.
Yes for the first 60 mins of the game I was actually a little disappointed with lookman yesterday
Mitrovic will come good and get 10+ goals easily. He's very much a confidence player and even though mitrovic couldn't hold the ball up yesterday Lookman just isn't physical enough for that
Lookman has no where near the confidence to play as a target man. Ever.
From all accounts he has a wobble in a game or two and completely shuts down. Has done so at Everton and Lepzig.
This may change as he gets older but after the initial rush of the goal just watch his face, he almost wanted to run away from the attention from his team mates. I think keep the pressure off him, play him where he is for a run of games as he's doing just fine.
Mitro had a mare yesterday but he'll bounce back I'm sure...as for Cav... :/
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on October 19, 2020, 01:30:45 PM
Quote from: Statto on October 18, 2020, 09:47:56 PM
I'm not getting carried away with Lookman just yet. There were lots of times where he neglected the opportunity to give it to Robinson on the overlap and somewhat selfishly dribbled to towards goal himself. He won't get too much stick for it today because he got the goal. But for me it's reminiscent of Knockaert when we first signed him, during the brief period when he's actually score occasionally.
Yes for the first 60 mins of the game I was actually a little disappointed with lookman yesterday
He is known for trying to do too much,but the combo of robinson and lookman is extremely exciting. And he has match winning ability as nearly shown yesterday,so i'd pull back a bit. I think he's one of those players who can delight and frustrate in equal measure.
Lookman has had 3 games and performed well in each, leave well alone, don't even think of playing him in any other position.
Mitro had an off day, too much football and lots of travelling in the past week, he will be better next week. We need continuity to get this team working at its best.
Just one change next week please, Cav. to be replaced with Bryan or Kebano.
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on October 19, 2020, 01:59:55 PM
Mitrovic will come good and get 10+ goals easily.
Mitrovic has scored, what, 40% of our goals over the past two-and-a-half seasons? If this season continues in the same vein and he scores 10, we're likely to score around 25 goals overall. Not a chance we would avoid relegation with this small number.
On the same basis, Mitrovic would need to score 15 for us to average one goal per game - which I would say is the minimum number of goals we need to score to have the slightest hope of staying up.
My reckoning, in what is a high-scoring season, is that Mitrovic would need to score 18 or 19 goals (which would mean us scoring in the region of 45 to 48 in total) to give us a realistic chance of survival and I, personally, wouldn't wager on him netting this many.
Quote from: Arthur on October 19, 2020, 02:37:08 PM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on October 19, 2020, 01:59:55 PM
Mitrovic will come good and get 10+ goals easily.
Mitrovic has scored, what, 40% of our goals over the past two-and-a-half seasons? If this season continues in the same vein and he scores 10, we're likely to score around 25 goals overall. Not a chance we would avoid relegation with this small number.
On the same basis, Mitrovic would need to score 15 for us to average one goal per game - which I would say is the minimum number of goals we need to score to have the slightest hope of staying up.
My reckoning, in what is a high-scoring season, is that Mitrovic would need to score 18 or 19 goals (which would mean us scoring in the region of 45 to 48 in total) to give us a realistic chance of survival and I, personally, wouldn't wager on him netting this many.
I get what you're saying. I just think because he has no competition and so the amount of games he'll play he really should. Plus he scored 12 last time in the PL i believe
Quote from: Arthur on October 19, 2020, 02:37:08 PM
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on October 19, 2020, 01:59:55 PM
Mitrovic will come good and get 10+ goals easily.
Mitrovic has scored, what, 40% of our goals over the past two-and-a-half seasons? If this season continues in the same vein and he scores 10, we're likely to score around 25 goals overall. Not a chance we would avoid relegation with this small number.
On the same basis, Mitrovic would need to score 15 for us to average one goal per game - which I would say is the minimum number of goals we need to score to have the slightest hope of staying up.
My reckoning, in what is a high-scoring season, is that Mitrovic would need to score 18 or 19 goals (which would mean us scoring in the region of 45 to 48 in total) to give us a realistic chance of survival and I, personally, wouldn't wager on him netting this many.
I am not sure that our goalscoring in total is additionaly impacted by the number of goals Mitro scores (the 40 % is not a set number that our squad follows regardless of how many goals Mitro scores). Whether he scores 10 or 20 goals should not mean that the rest score 15 or 30 goals respectively. Those numbers don't have much to do with each other, and if Mitro scores less then it is more likely that his percentage of our total goals scored will be lower this year instead of everybody else also scoring less.
With that said, I agree that we are likely to need a fair amount of goals from Mitro, and I am sure we will get it.
Quote from: Sting of the North on October 19, 2020, 03:02:27 PM
...if Mitro scores less then it is more likely that his percentage of our total goals scored will be lower this year instead of everybody else also scoring less.
This is, of course, true and was the case last time in this league when he scored 11 of our 34 goals that season.
More specifically, the point my previous post is intended to support is that we have had, and seemingly, this season, continue to have, a style of play which, to my eyes, means one player - Mitrovic - is the focus of most of our attempts to create goalscoring opportunities, whereas other clubs are not so fixated. I agree that whether Mitrovic scores or misses the chances he is given shouldn't affect whether other players score theirs. (The corollary, however, is that if Mitrovic is finding it more difficult to find the net and the scoreline reflects this: e.g. we're losing when we when we might have been level, or drawing when we could have been ahead, it may mean other players are more likely to miss their own opportunities owing to the added pressure.) What I think I see, rightly or wrongly, is a dependency on Mitrovic which, in this league, will not serve us best. My worry is not only that he will not score enough goals, but - even more crucially - the number of opportunities which fall to other players will be fewer in number as a result of our style of play.
I have questioned, before now, whether our having so much attacking play revolve around Mitrovic is the most beneficial tactic, but have lacked confidence in alternatives owing to the quality of other players. Now we have Lookman, Loftus-Cheek, Anguissa and Lemina in our ranks, I am more hopeful of our finding a different approach that will yield more goals than we are likely to score if we continue relying so heavily on landing the ball on Mitrovic's head or trying to provide him with close-range shooting chances.
Irrespective of how profligate Mitrovic may seem to have been lately, who on here wouldn't back him ahead of AK47, Kebano, Cavaleiro and BDR (in other words, all our attackers except Lookman, whom we've only had one game to judge so far) to convert any given chance? Our "dependency" may seem like a tactical choice but I suspect it's actually an unavoidable consequence of him being by far our best attacking player. That being the case, dropping him would be like Portugal deciding that Ronaldo seems to get the lion's share of their goals and assists, and dropping him to see if some of their other attackers can do better under a different system.
The conundrum though is that when Mitrovic has been absent we have not folded and I recall somebody on here comparing it to getting 3D glasses after losing your specs. His unavailability/ absence has not always hurt us in the past. Certainly when given the choice of himself, AK, BDR or Kebano you would think Mitro wins it every time but if our midfield is going to be creative, more fleet of foot and less porous he needs to be the man on fire again otherwise he could become the next Cav. Like some others in our team last season and the one before is old news now.
