I am so astonished
we needed centre halves and got three (that was good and probably one to many but good nonetheless).
We needed a physical prescence in midfield and got none
we needed a forward, my preference was King from bournemouth (or A.N. other that may have been as good or better) and got none.
we now have 6 centre halves
no defensive midfielder that physically dominates
no forward that supports/replaces Mitro
you can dress this up any way and I will not name names but what a russian roulette situation we face again
Our transfer business seems haphazard at best.
There doesn't seem to be much forward planning - it seems to be more reactive instead of proactive
Anguissa is already a physical presence in midfield, as is RLC and Lemina when he's back up to full fitness. Did you miss RLC having a collision with a Sheff Utd player that meant he got subbed off with concussion while RLC didn't even flinch?
We all know we needed another wide player, not sure why you're writing yet another thread about it when it could be quite easily added to one of the existing ones? Lookman can be deployed as a forward to support Mitro if we tweak our formation, which is tactical and not purely to do with the squad.
Quote from: Deeping_white on October 19, 2020, 01:01:39 PM
Anguissa is already a physical presence in midfield, as is RLC and Lemina when he's back up to full fitness. Did you miss RLC having a collision with a Sheff Utd player that meant he got subbed off with concussion while RLC didn't even flinch?
We all know we needed another wide player, not sure why you're writing yet another thread about it when it could be quite easily added to one of the existing ones? Lookman can be deployed as a forward to support Mitro if we tweak our formation, which is tactical and not purely to do with the squad.
Yes, Loftus-Cheek looks physically strong and Anguissa is certainly no lightweight either.
And, as you say, there are already threads about the implications of our not bringing in another striker which offer the opportunity for contributors to vent their displeasure at Tony Khan.
Reed will sit and do what he has done since arriving once he is fit again
We have a very physical midfield IMHO - especially at the centre. Lemina, Anguissa, RLC are all very hard to shrug off the ball and are the complete midfielders we've been searching for.
Only downside of this window - No out out backup for Mitrovic. A winger that could play striker would have been fine, like Josh King. But we missed that opportunity.
Andersen, Adarabioyo are terrific signings, unfortunate about Andersen's injury so early.
Tete and Aina could 1 and 2 for RB.
In general, I think we recruited well barr the winger/striker situation. (Excluding permanents for Cav and Knock)
I completely agree with Bron. To bring in a Premiership quality back 4 of Robinson, Kongolo, Tosin (who looked so composed & assured on his debut) and Tete, all on long term permanent deals, for a total outlay of like 10.5mil? That's very good business. About 2/3 of what Villa paid for Matty Cash, and they're all still young, too.
We definitely missed out on the backup striker/winger (Joshua King or ideally the gifted & v expensive Ismaila Sarr- interesting to note that neither moved in this window), but we'll have to make do for the next 2 months with Kamara and BDR. I think we'll see more of Bobby; although his personal goal return has been poor, he links well with the other players, and plays with good focus and intensity (Abu seems to have the intensity, but not as much focus). I think Bobby provides some intangibles, such that the team seems to play better when BDR is on the pitch.
As for the Cav and Knock contracts, I'm sure they were obligations from their loan deals, and the fact that we got promoted while both made 40+ appearances, probably validates those expenditures. I think the administration will be looking at those costs as deferred expenses from last season, more than investments in the future...
Quote from: Bronaldinho on October 19, 2020, 01:28:45 PM
We have a very physical midfield IMHO - especially at the centre. Lemina, Anguissa, RLC are all very hard to shrug off the ball and are the complete midfielders we've been searching for.
Only downside of this window - No out out backup for Mitrovic. A winger that could play striker would have been fine, like Josh King. But we missed that opportunity.
Andersen, Adarabioyo are terrific signings, unfortunate about Andersen's injury so early.
Tete and Aina could 1 and 2 for RB.
In general, I think we recruited well barr the winger/striker situation. (Excluding permanents for Cav and Knock)
Well, to comment on what you and a couple of others have said.
these are talented players and are certainly bigger and stronger than we had before, no doubt. but I didn't really think i needed to spell out what was on my mind....
I am referring to a tough uncomprimising enforcer who does the genuinely physical stuff, ugly but necessary. Anguissa and RLC are very talented and use that but I am talking anbout somebody that in old fashioned parlance, 'let's the opposition know he is there.' We do not have such a player and we need one.
Quote from: ALG01 on October 19, 2020, 03:15:10 PM
Quote from: Bronaldinho on October 19, 2020, 01:28:45 PM
We have a very physical midfield IMHO - especially at the centre. Lemina, Anguissa, RLC are all very hard to shrug off the ball and are the complete midfielders we've been searching for.
Only downside of this window - No out out backup for Mitrovic. A winger that could play striker would have been fine, like Josh King. But we missed that opportunity.
Andersen, Adarabioyo are terrific signings, unfortunate about Andersen's injury so early.
Tete and Aina could 1 and 2 for RB.
In general, I think we recruited well barr the winger/striker situation. (Excluding permanents for Cav and Knock)
Well, to comment on what you and a couple of others have said.
these are talented players and are certainly bigger and stronger than we had before, no doubt. but I didn't really think i needed to spell out what was on my mind....
I am referring to a tough uncomprimising enforcer who does the genuinely physical stuff, ugly but necessary. Anguissa and RLC are very talented and use that but I am talking anbout somebody that in old fashioned parlance, 'let's the opposition know he is there.' We do not have such a player and we need one.
Bearing in mind VAR gave a penalty for Mitro barely touching a Sheff Utd player, do you really think an "enforcer" is going to last 90 minutes in PL football? They'd be a walking red card in waiting and we don't need that kind of nonsense
Quote from: Bronaldinho on October 19, 2020, 01:28:45 PM
We have a very physical midfield IMHO - especially at the centre. Lemina, Anguissa, RLC are all very hard to shrug off the ball and are the complete midfielders we've been searching for.
Only downside of this window - No out out backup for Mitrovic. A winger that could play striker would have been fine, like Josh King. But we missed that opportunity.
Andersen, Adarabioyo are terrific signings, unfortunate about Andersen's injury so early.
Tete and Aina could 1 and 2 for RB.
In general, I think we recruited well barr the winger/striker situation. (Excluding permanents for Cav and Knock)
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I think that a big, brutish "enforcer" who does the dirty stuff might be a relic of a bygone era, particularly in the age of VAR. It could still make sense in the Championship, but the Premiership ideal is more of a Claude Makalele or Ngolo Kante, neither of whom is particularly imposing. It's about covering the back four using skill, tenacity, intelligent risk assessment and covering a lot of ground, then recovering possession and making clever use of the ball, recycling it forward in transition to attacking play. Pretty much what Harrison Reed was given responsibility for last season. I would've loved to see us make a deal for Teun Koopmeiners from AZ Alkmaar, who we were linked with in the window, who I think would be great in that role in the Premier League.
Quote from: Deeping_white on October 19, 2020, 03:30:31 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on October 19, 2020, 03:15:10 PM
Quote from: Bronaldinho on October 19, 2020, 01:28:45 PM
We have a very physical midfield IMHO - especially at the centre. Lemina, Anguissa, RLC are all very hard to shrug off the ball and are the complete midfielders we've been searching for.
Only downside of this window - No out out backup for Mitrovic. A winger that could play striker would have been fine, like Josh King. But we missed that opportunity.
Andersen, Adarabioyo are terrific signings, unfortunate about Andersen's injury so early.
Tete and Aina could 1 and 2 for RB.
In general, I think we recruited well barr the winger/striker situation. (Excluding permanents for Cav and Knock)
Well, to comment on what you and a couple of others have said.
these are talented players and are certainly bigger and stronger than we had before, no doubt. but I didn't really think i needed to spell out what was on my mind....
I am referring to a tough uncomprimising enforcer who does the genuinely physical stuff, ugly but necessary. Anguissa and RLC are very talented and use that but I am talking anbout somebody that in old fashioned parlance, 'let's the opposition know he is there.' We do not have such a player and we need one.
Bearing in mind VAR gave a penalty for Mitro barely touching a Sheff Utd player, do you really think an "enforcer" is going to last 90 minutes in PL football? They'd be a walking red card in waiting and we don't need that kind of nonsense
Good point well made! It is certainly likely to be an issue but I do think we do not have the aggrsive central defensive midfielder. Reed is closeish but I do think we could do with the olde worlde enforcer nonetheless but yes he would need tpo be veryt careful not to cross the line.
And for what it is worth i think the penalty was to the letter of the rules correct but the rules are ridiculous.
Quote from: ALG01 on October 19, 2020, 03:15:10 PM
these are talented players and are certainly bigger and stronger than we had before, no doubt. but I didn't really think i needed to spell out what was on my mind....
I am referring to a tough uncomprimising enforcer who does the genuinely physical stuff, ugly but necessary.
A player comparable to whom exactly?
Quote from: Arthur on October 19, 2020, 04:47:35 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on October 19, 2020, 03:15:10 PM
these are talented players and are certainly bigger and stronger than we had before, no doubt. but I didn't really think i needed to spell out what was on my mind....
I am referring to a tough uncomprimising enforcer who does the genuinely physical stuff, ugly but necessary.
A player comparable to whom exactly?
sorry I do not understand the question. I have describe a player type... a tough guy, what more do you need to know
Quote from: Arthur on October 19, 2020, 04:47:35 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on October 19, 2020, 03:15:10 PM
these are talented players and are certainly bigger and stronger than we had before, no doubt. but I didn't really think i needed to spell out what was on my mind....
I am referring to a tough uncomprimising enforcer who does the genuinely physical stuff, ugly but necessary.
A player comparable to whom exactly?
Claudio "It's not a game for ballerinas"* Gentile?
(* His post-match comment after famously fouling Maradonna 23 times in the 1982 World Cup.)
Quote from: Arthur on October 19, 2020, 04:47:35 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on October 19, 2020, 03:15:10 PM
these are talented players and are certainly bigger and stronger than we had before, no doubt. but I didn't really think i needed to spell out what was on my mind....
I am referring to a tough uncomprimising enforcer who does the genuinely physical stuff, ugly but necessary.
A player comparable to whom exactly?
im guessing he means like the wardrobe papa bouba diop
Clearly, Parker wants to attack with Mitro as the lynchpin and quick wingers fluttering about. That was the plan with Cav and Knockers and it seems the aim was to continue with that by replacing the aforementioned. Lookman and RLC are Plan B and just might work. Hopefully Parker lights a fire under RLC. His effort was lacking against Forest. Maybe having someone to run under a pass will inspire our captain.
Quote from: ALG01 on October 19, 2020, 06:35:22 PM
Quote from: Arthur on October 19, 2020, 04:47:35 PM
A player comparable to whom exactly?
sorry I do not understand the question. I have describe a player type... a tough guy, what more do you need to know
Apologies. I was asking for the name of a current player who, were he in our team, would satisfy your description - because those I can think of: N'Golo Kante, Hojbjerg, Fernandinho, Matic, Ndidi, are all of a calibre we cannot expect to attract, whereas we do already have Harrison Reed - whom you presumably don't consider good enough.
Quote from: Arthur on October 19, 2020, 10:15:13 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on October 19, 2020, 06:35:22 PM
Quote from: Arthur on October 19, 2020, 04:47:35 PM
A player comparable to whom exactly?
sorry I do not understand the question. I have describe a player type... a tough guy, what more do you need to know
Apologies. I was asking for the name of a current player who, were he in our team, would satisfy your description - because those I can think of: N'Golo Kante, Hojbjerg, Fernandinho, Matic, Ndidi, are all of a calibre we cannot expect to attract, whereas we do already have Harrison Reed - whom you presumably don't consider good enough.
I would accept all thois named as acceptable but Reed is OK but I do not think he quite fits the ugly category, he does a good job but I do not think intimidates... Terry hurlock is the type of thing but with a calming measure to take account of modern rules!
Quote from: ALG01 on October 19, 2020, 06:35:22 PM
Quote from: Arthur on October 19, 2020, 04:47:35 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on October 19, 2020, 03:15:10 PM
these are talented players and are certainly bigger and stronger than we had before, no doubt. but I didn't really think i needed to spell out what was on my mind....
I am referring to a tough uncomprimising enforcer who does the genuinely physical stuff, ugly but necessary.
A player comparable to whom exactly?
sorry I do not understand the question. I have describe a player type... a tough guy, what more do you need to know
Arter was a tough guy, but he looked a red card waiting to happen. I think Reed will improve and he can help protect the back four. Lemina could potentially as well, I'm not sure what kind of player he is yet.
Anguissa and RLC are formidable but neither track back well, Scott should coach them to offer a bit more in that department.
Quote from: ALG01 on October 19, 2020, 03:15:10 PM
Quote from: Bronaldinho on October 19, 2020, 01:28:45 PM
We have a very physical midfield IMHO - especially at the centre. Lemina, Anguissa, RLC are all very hard to shrug off the ball and are the complete midfielders we've been searching for.
Only downside of this window - No out out backup for Mitrovic. A winger that could play striker would have been fine, like Josh King. But we missed that opportunity.
Andersen, Adarabioyo are terrific signings, unfortunate about Andersen's injury so early.
Tete and Aina could 1 and 2 for RB.
In general, I think we recruited well barr the winger/striker situation. (Excluding permanents for Cav and Knock)
Well, to comment on what you and a couple of others have said.
these are talented players and are certainly bigger and stronger than we had before, no doubt. but I didn't really think i needed to spell out what was on my mind....
I am referring to a tough uncomprimising enforcer who does the genuinely physical stuff, ugly but necessary. Anguissa and RLC are very talented and use that but I am talking anbout somebody that in old fashioned parlance, 'let's the opposition know he is there.' We do not have such a player and we need one.
Always grew up with the phrase 'The best defenders leave the pitch the cleanest".
If you know how to read the game and have mastered the positioning element of football - you don't have to do the uncompromising stuff like throwing yourself on the floor.
Same applies for midfielders.
Quote from: Bronaldinho on October 20, 2020, 01:47:42 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on October 19, 2020, 03:15:10 PM
Quote from: Bronaldinho on October 19, 2020, 01:28:45 PM
We have a very physical midfield IMHO - especially at the centre. Lemina, Anguissa, RLC are all very hard to shrug off the ball and are the complete midfielders we've been searching for.
Only downside of this window - No out out backup for Mitrovic. A winger that could play striker would have been fine, like Josh King. But we missed that opportunity.
Andersen, Adarabioyo are terrific signings, unfortunate about Andersen's injury so early.
Tete and Aina could 1 and 2 for RB.
In general, I think we recruited well barr the winger/striker situation. (Excluding permanents for Cav and Knock)
Well, to comment on what you and a couple of others have said.
these are talented players and are certainly bigger and stronger than we had before, no doubt. but I didn't really think i needed to spell out what was on my mind....
I am referring to a tough uncomprimising enforcer who does the genuinely physical stuff, ugly but necessary. Anguissa and RLC are very talented and use that but I am talking anbout somebody that in old fashioned parlance, 'let's the opposition know he is there.' We do not have such a player and we need one.
Always grew up with the phrase 'The best defenders leave the pitch the cleanest".
If you know how to read the game and have mastered the positioning element of football - you don't have to do the uncompromising stuff like throwing yourself on the floor.
Same applies for midfielders.
:plus one:
Quote from: Bronaldinho on October 20, 2020, 01:47:42 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on October 19, 2020, 03:15:10 PM
Quote from: Bronaldinho on October 19, 2020, 01:28:45 PM
We have a very physical midfield IMHO - especially at the centre. Lemina, Anguissa, RLC are all very hard to shrug off the ball and are the complete midfielders we've been searching for.
Only downside of this window - No out out backup for Mitrovic. A winger that could play striker would have been fine, like Josh King. But we missed that opportunity.
Andersen, Adarabioyo are terrific signings, unfortunate about Andersen's injury so early.
Tete and Aina could 1 and 2 for RB.
In general, I think we recruited well barr the winger/striker situation. (Excluding permanents for Cav and Knock)
Well, to comment on what you and a couple of others have said.
these are talented players and are certainly bigger and stronger than we had before, no doubt. but I didn't really think i needed to spell out what was on my mind....
I am referring to a tough uncomprimising enforcer who does the genuinely physical stuff, ugly but necessary. Anguissa and RLC are very talented and use that but I am talking anbout somebody that in old fashioned parlance, 'let's the opposition know he is there.' We do not have such a player and we need one.
Always grew up with the phrase 'The best defenders leave the pitch the cleanest".
If you know how to read the game and have mastered the positioning element of football - you don't have to do the uncompromising stuff like throwing yourself on the floor.
Same applies for midfielders.
I am not sure the comment about the best being the cleanest (meaning not falling over) is one I recall. It was usually if you werre clean on a muddy day you hadn'tr really got involved.
and yest it is true if you read the game brilliantly you can reduce the amount of uncomprimising yourself on the ground
But the best team obver the years will often have a tough man in the centre of defence and/or midfield. That has been true over the years because when the going gets tough you find the more gifted players disapear. You need to stand up to the opposition, and worry them. I am a total believer in the beautiful game, the artistry, one touch football but even the best teams have tough guys, just look at real with ramos and barca with puyol was fairlky uncomprimising to name but two.
Such players are needed. It's just the way it is.
Quote from: ALG01 on October 20, 2020, 12:23:33 PM
Quote from: Arthur on October 19, 2020, 10:15:13 PM
Apologies. I was asking for the name of a current player who, were he in our team, would satisfy your description - because those I can think of: N'Golo Kante, Hojbjerg, Fernandinho, Matic, Ndidi, are all of a calibre we cannot expect to attract, whereas we do already have Harrison Reed - whom you presumably don't consider good enough.
I would accept all thois named as acceptable but Reed is OK but I do not think he quite fits the ugly category, he does a good job but I do not think intimidates... Terry hurlock is the type of thing but with a calming measure to take account of modern rules!
I'm sure we'd all consider the players listed above to be good additions to our team; they're all playing for last season's top six, so it sort of follows they'll be more than good enough for us.
I wonder how realistic it is to expect us to have found someone better than Reed. A Terry Hurlock-like player who is more combative than Reed and yet is able to remain as level-headed as Reed while possessing a skill-set equal to or better than Reed is asking a fair bit in my opinion.
Quote from: Arthur on October 20, 2020, 08:44:37 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on October 20, 2020, 12:23:33 PM
Quote from: Arthur on October 19, 2020, 10:15:13 PM
Apologies. I was asking for the name of a current player who, were he in our team, would satisfy your description - because those I can think of: N'Golo Kante, Hojbjerg, Fernandinho, Matic, Ndidi, are all of a calibre we cannot expect to attract, whereas we do already have Harrison Reed - whom you presumably don't consider good enough.
I would accept all thois named as acceptable but Reed is OK but I do not think he quite fits the ugly category, he does a good job but I do not think intimidates... Terry hurlock is the type of thing but with a calming measure to take account of modern rules!
I'm sure we'd all consider the players listed above to be good additions to our team; they're all playing for last season's top six, so it sort of follows they'll be more than good enough for us.
I wonder how realistic it is to expect us to have found someone better than Reed. A Terry Hurlock-like player who is more combative than Reed and yet is able to remain as level-headed as Reed while possessing a skill-set equal to or better than Reed is asking a fair bit in my opinion.
I think it was realistic. I do not think we tried and seeing as for the last few seasons we have been crying out for such a player I feel sure we might have found somebody by now. It has been a pleasure talking as always but I am going away to prepare for the palace match and am looking forward with a renewed optimisim that we might just start to compete.
