I presume
Yes, Spurs now listed by BBC as off, hard to see how Fulham can now be cleared to travel to Burnley in a couple of days time.
If they players are re-tested and they are negative again, and the staff who have tested positive are in quarantine, can the game go ahead?
Quote from: Wingnut on December 30, 2020, 04:06:34 PM
If they players are re-tested and they are negative again, and the staff who have tested positive are in quarantine, can the game go ahead?
No chance
I've got a feeling all football will be cancelled soon
The fun n games just never end !
Bleak....
Quote from: perry geyton on December 30, 2020, 04:16:19 PM
Quote from: Wingnut on December 30, 2020, 04:06:34 PM
If they players are re-tested and they are negative again, and the staff who have tested positive are in quarantine, can the game go ahead?
No chance
I've got a feeling all football will be cancelled soon
The fun n games just never end !
Bleak....
I can't see that happening. Far too much money at stake. Some people are calling for a break in the season but I can see how that will work with the Euros due to take place this summer.
Hope none of our players or the players of any other team get any long lasting effects or long covid. It could really destroy an amazing career. Health before entertainment, well done to those who made the call.
Unless we can't get the spread contained, I assume we will be playing shorthanded at Burnley.
981 people died from it today, and that is before any Christmas mixing is taken into account.
It's going to get messy. Very, very messy.
No way the club will be permitted to travel on the weekend, no chance.
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on December 30, 2020, 04:46:22 PM
981 people died from it today, and that is before any Christmas mixing is taken into account.
It's going to get messy. Very, very messy.
Whilst that's a shocking number, I think it's adding on Scotland, N Ireland, Wales deaths over xmas too.
It's sadly the norm for the government when making changes to restrictions that they do it hand in hand with high counts.
I am not making light of covid in any way and it's clearly a killer however people who would have died anyway but have covid are in the numbers. Likely covid bought forward deaths but not necessarily the main reason. It sounds crude but covid is not the only illness causing these deaths. Complicated. Roll on the vaccine and RIP those who we have lost.
Quote from: FulhamStu on December 30, 2020, 05:17:00 PM
I am not making light of covid in any way and it's clearly a killer however people who would have died anyway but have covid are in the numbers. Likely covid bought forward deaths but not necessarily the main reason. It sounds crude but covid is not the only illness causing these deaths. Complicated. Roll on the vaccine and RIP those who we have lost.
Fair. When can I get my shot? 2022? That's for another thread.
If footballers were in bubbles like touring cricketers are I could understand how things could be managed but when they go home every day and mix with their families I just don't get why football has carried on at all. Testing is great but only tells you that you have or don't have it. The Premier League say they are still confident that their protocols are robust, all I can say is thank heavens you don't run the NHS. It's hard to see how it can carry on in the new circumstances.
best to postpone the league for 5-6 weeks, start playing again in Mid Feb and delay the Euro's.
Quote from: Pieter A'dam on December 30, 2020, 05:34:43 PM
best to postpone the league for 5-6 weeks, start playing again in Mid Feb and delay the Euro's.
I agree. Season will not be cancelled but I am sure there will be a break.
Quote from: Jim© on December 30, 2020, 05:02:24 PM
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on December 30, 2020, 04:46:22 PM
981 people died from it today, and that is before any Christmas mixing is taken into account.
It's going to get messy. Very, very messy.
Whilst that's a shocking number, I think it's adding on Scotland, N Ireland, Wales deaths over xmas too.
It's sadly the norm for the government when making changes to restrictions that they do it hand in hand with high counts.
Jim just said that the Christmas mixing numbers haven't come through yet - there's a always a lag of around 2 weeks - I feel for the NHS workers - heard a junior doctor on the radio yesterday she was nearly in tears - most of us haven't a clue what they are going through - :Happy New Year:
Not just waiting on Xmas count either...
Wait for the count following NYE celebrations by those that don't give a damn
Burnley on a bit of a run atm. If we play them once we have a new striker in, it could be a blessing
Quote from: Beamer on December 30, 2020, 05:31:35 PM
If footballers were in bubbles like touring cricketers are I could understand how things could be managed but when they go home every day and mix with their families I just don't get why football has carried on at all.
I think the evidence of the past six months tells us why football has carried on. Whether it will continue to do so remains to be seen. But if footballers, themselves, feel their environment is safe enough, few of us are in a position of knowledge to tell them otherwise. Like millions of others, I go out to work and then come home and mix with my family. If the Government tells me I must stay at home, I shall. But if a layperson were to tell me, I would trust my own judgement.
Quote from: Beamer on December 30, 2020, 05:31:35 PM
Testing is great but only tells you that you have or don't have it.
Perhaps I'm missing an obvious connection, but I don't see the problem inherent in this.
Quote from: Beamer on December 30, 2020, 05:31:35 PM
The Premier League say they are still confident that their protocols are robust, all I can say is thank heavens you don't run the NHS.
From what I know, P.L. protocols are certainly as robust as where I work, and the Government isn't telling me to stay at home yet. In my opinion, your scorn may be unwarranted.
Quote from: Beamer on December 30, 2020, 05:31:35 PM
It's hard to see how it can carry on in the new circumstances.
I hope it can, but you may be right.
This virus is running wild, every thing possible now needs to be done to curtail the continual rise in daily new cases,
Afraid football has to stop until we see a clear fall in the numbers being infected.
Health has to be the priority above money and entertainment.
People can test positive for up to 6 weeks. Long after infection has come and gone symptom wise. Which is why they must have in place an isolation period only rather than a re-swab policy..
Eg earlier in year nursing homes wouldn't take patients back unless they tested negative and hence they sat on my ward for 4-5 weeks awaiting negative swabs. Was silly..
I would assume a break in football is not far off.Maybe a couple of months stop in games and a resumption thereafter.Once the people have been vaccinated who are deemed to be vulnerable kicks in no reason why the economy can't get back to some normality. Now the Oxford vaccine has been passed and the stocks are there let's hope people take it up and we can get on with our lives.Mind you a couple of weeks ago people on here saying there was no issues and were not going to take it.
Hi Arthur,
Fair comments but I don't think that comparing your working environment (without knowing what you do) is probably meaningful. By the nature of the game players are mixing with teammates and opposition players from all over the country without any protection or distancing in a way no standard employer would be allowed to do. The point about testing, clearly not very well made, is that when players test positive in any other occupation, their close contacts are 'track and traced' and made to isolate for a period before being tested and cleared. Testing too soon after doesn't help.
Positive tests are rising significantly in football and away from it, not the fault of the PL but there is now a new environment which their comments do not, to me, seem in keeping with the changed landscape. They have now got into a position where they are having to decide which games will and won't be played - that's surely going to end up with a lot of arguments and dissatisfaction from teams and fans alike.
With so much of the country in tier 4 now it would seem more prudent to call a halt for a relatively short period of time to assess the situation and the options.
I love my football as much as anyone but am struggling with it's relevance at present and can't really believe that it is being continued as some altruistic gesture to help people's mental state but that's a debate for another time.
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on December 30, 2020, 04:46:22 PM
981 people died from it today, and that is before any Christmas mixing is taken into account.
It's going to get messy. Very, very messy.
About 12th Jan I expect..... Christmas mixing, incubation period, numbers will shoot up unfortunately....
Really need people to realise how serious this is....
Football is important.... but it is not THAT important....
COYW
Quote from: FulhamStu on December 30, 2020, 05:17:00 PM
I am not making light of covid in any way and it's clearly a killer however people who would have died anyway but have covid are in the numbers. Likely covid bought forward deaths but not necessarily the main reason. It sounds crude but covid is not the only illness causing these deaths. Complicated. Roll on the vaccine and RIP those who we have lost.
Indeed.
The reporting of Covid and its effects has been the greatest, most damaging scandal of my lifetime. Almost every 'factual, stat and metric the government and media refer is misleading and paints a grossly misleading picture. The number of 'deaths with covid' is one example of many.
I think QPR in the Cup is up next this could be our winter break.
Think I will get rid of my doctor and come on here for medical advice.
Quote from: Beamer on December 30, 2020, 11:16:21 PM
Hi Arthur,
Fair comments but I don't think that comparing your working environment (without knowing what you do) is probably meaningful. By the nature of the game players are mixing with teammates and opposition players from all over the country without any protection or distancing in a way no standard employer would be allowed to do. The point about testing, clearly not very well made, is that when players test positive in any other occupation, their close contacts are 'track and traced' and made to isolate for a period before being tested and cleared. Testing too soon after doesn't help.
Positive tests are rising significantly in football and away from it, not the fault of the PL but there is now a new environment which their comments do not, to me, seem in keeping with the changed landscape. They have now got into a position where they are having to decide which games will and won't be played - that's surely going to end up with a lot of arguments and dissatisfaction from teams and fans alike.
With so much of the country in tier 4 now it would seem more prudent to call a halt for a relatively short period of time to assess the situation and the options.
I love my football as much as anyone but am struggling with it's relevance at present and can't really believe that it is being continued as some altruistic gesture to help people's mental state but that's a debate for another time.
Thank you for your reply.
The protocols with regards to footballers self-isolating have been in place for the past six months and, throughout that time, can be seen to have worked well. Postponements are part of the system of safeguarding players. I agree there could come a point where the number of postponements calls into question the efficacy of those protocols. I don't think, however, that three (postponements) is that number.
As matters stands, the number of positive cases among the group of P.L. players and staff is just over 1% - still a small minority. We shall only know whether this heralds the onset of a significant rise when we learn of the numbers in the weeks ahead.
As for the P.L. 'assessing the options', surely this is an ongoing process anyway. And, as part of that process, the suspension of all matches must be one of the options that is constantly under review. There may come a point when a break is necessary to safeguard the players. I do wonder what can be learned, however, from having a 'short period of time to assess the situation and the options' that would make football any different upon its return when it is already evident that the virus will be rife for the foreseeable future.
I can appreciate that you are struggling to see football as relevant. I, on the other hand, am finding that it helps to take my focus away from the depressing and worrying impact of Covid19. And it is this, perhaps, that forms the actual basis of our difference of opinion. For all the reasoned arguments, maybe it all boils down to the fact that I favour football's continuation because I'm still enjoying watching it whereas you, seemingly, are currently less than enthralled.
Quote from: ex-Pat on December 31, 2020, 02:51:08 AM
Think I will get rid of my doctor and come on here for medical advice.
Doctors?
They don't exist anymore,just a receptionist at the end of the phone telling you the doc says take 2 paracetamol and you'll be fine😎
Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 30, 2020, 10:31:24 PM
I would assume a break in football is not far off.Maybe a couple of months stop in games and a resumption thereafter.Once the people have been vaccinated who are deemed to be vulnerable kicks in no reason why the economy can't get back to some normality. Now the Oxford vaccine has been passed and the stocks are there let's hope people take it up and we can get on with our lives.Mind you a couple of weeks ago people on here saying there was no issues and were not going to take it.
I am inferring you do not think it should be a choice. And yet, at the same time, you acknowledge a reason why it is not essential for everyone to submit to vaccination:
Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 30, 2020, 10:31:24 PM
Once the people have been vaccinated who are deemed to be vulnerable kicks in no reason why the economy can't get back to some normality.
Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 30, 2020, 10:31:24 PM
I would assume a break in football is not far off.Maybe a couple of months stop in games and a resumption thereafter.Once the people have been vaccinated who are deemed to be vulnerable kicks in no reason why the economy can't get back to some normality. Now the Oxford vaccine has been passed and the stocks are there let's hope people take it up and we can get on with our lives.Mind you a couple of weeks ago people on here saying there was no issues and were not going to take it.
The Prem has stated 'they are not considering a break'.
No it won't be unless we get more positives, see Newcastle and Citeh etc where they had games off but then played their next. In fact Newcastle are still missing players for it. This was cancelled as it happened 24 hours before a game so ruined our preparation and secondly because of the risk of other as yet unknown players who may have contracted it. We know who will be missing and will have to get on with it.
As an observation, it looks like kids are in & out of each others houses, then getting the bus home
Quote from: Beamer on December 30, 2020, 05:31:35 PM
If footballers were in bubbles like touring cricketers are I could understand how things could be managed but when they go home every day and mix with their families I just don't get why football has carried on at all. Testing is great but only tells you that you have or don't have it. The Premier League say they are still confident that their protocols are robust, all I can say is thank heavens you don't run the NHS. It's hard to see how it can carry on in the new circumstances.
Cricket is much lower risk already being a good weather sport and not one that spans winter and the highest risk of influenza and common cold outbreaks which annually cause excess hospitalisations and deaths (e.g. more than occur at any other times of the year). This annual period involves the NHS operating at the very brinks of its capacity and unless that capacity can be increased as demanded (Nightingale Hospitals?) there is always going to be a problem.
That is coupled with the conjecture that the SARS-CoV-2 variant (which has been around since late summer or early autumn in most parts of England and elsewhere) is more transmissible although the ONS evidence outside London, the East and South East of England suggests this is not so very likely. Why the variant is spreading so fast in a locked down London, E and SE England appears to be an unsolved mystery. A potential testing issue may be the answer.
I'm in the camp of "love my footie but the sterilised version we are getting right now doesn't really do much for me".
The low % infections in PL are an historic measure. Authorities keep making the same mistake, relying too much on historical data instead of getting ahead of this damn virus and taking some proper pre-emptive action. e.g. stopping the international break: Players go away for a few days to play for their country and hey ho! some of them come back infected - ooh what a surprise ! So come on PL, wake up and be a leader instead of a follower!! (alas I fear the £££'s as stake will always be the master here, health comes a poor second in this game right now)
Happy New Year to all
Me thinks mother nature getting her own back,too many folk on the planet,rain forests and others been destroyed for greed.
Oceans polluted to f***....No I'm not crazy🤔
Quote from: ex-Pat on December 31, 2020, 02:51:08 AM
Think I will get rid of my doctor and come on here for medical advice.
Post of the day. I think the message will be ramped up now starting with a more robust line on physical distancing replacing the ever so p.c 'social distancing if you don't mind that would be awfully nice of you' stance we currently have. Personally I am going to take up the option of punching the lights out of anybody who tells me this is all a conspiracy, control measure, a bit like flu or indeed that they are immune and don't need a mask. There is an interview with a doctor on five live this morning now a BBC catch up podcast that should be made compulsory listening.
Quote from: ScalleysDad on December 31, 2020, 11:23:17 AM
Quote from: ex-Pat on December 31, 2020, 02:51:08 AM
Think I will get rid of my doctor and come on here for medical advice.
Post of the day. I think the message will be ramped up now starting with a more robust line on physical distancing replacing the ever so p.c 'social distancing if you don't mind that would be awfully nice of you' stance we currently have. Personally I am going to take up the option of punching the lights out of anybody who tells me this is all a conspiracy, control measure, a bit like flu or indeed that they are immune and don't need a mask. There is an interview with a doctor on five live this morning now a BBC catch up podcast that should be made compulsory listening.
There will be,in the next generation or so,a pharmalogical method
of making people love their servitude and producing dictatorship without tears
so to speak producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies
so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them
but will rather enjoy it. (Aldous Huxley)
don't think he threatened to punch anyone either
Quote from: Arthur on December 31, 2020, 05:33:34 AM
Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 30, 2020, 10:31:24 PM
I would assume a break in football is not far off.Maybe a couple of months stop in games and a resumption thereafter.Once the people have been vaccinated who are deemed to be vulnerable kicks in no reason why the economy can't get back to some normality. Now the Oxford vaccine has been passed and the stocks are there let's hope people take it up and we can get on with our lives.Mind you a couple of weeks ago people on here saying there was no issues and were not going to take it.
I am inferring you do not think it should be a choice. And yet, at the same time, you acknowledge a reason why it is not essential for everyone to submit to vaccination:
Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 30, 2020, 10:31:24 PM
Once the people have been vaccinated who are deemed to be vulnerable kicks in no reason why the economy can't get back to some normality.
Suggest you read the vaccine thread.
Quote from: john dempsey on December 31, 2020, 11:48:12 AM
Quote from: ScalleysDad on December 31, 2020, 11:23:17 AM
Quote from: ex-Pat on December 31, 2020, 02:51:08 AM
Think I will get rid of my doctor and come on here for medical advice.
Post of the day. I think the message will be ramped up now starting with a more robust line on physical distancing replacing the ever so p.c 'social distancing if you don't mind that would be awfully nice of you' stance we currently have. Personally I am going to take up the option of punching the lights out of anybody who tells me this is all a conspiracy, control measure, a bit like flu or indeed that they are immune and don't need a mask. There is an interview with a doctor on five live this morning now a BBC catch up podcast that should be made compulsory listening.
There will be,in the next generation or so,a pharmalogical method
of making people love their servitude and producing dictatorship without tears
so to speak producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies
so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them
but will rather enjoy it. (Aldous Huxley)
don't think he threatened to punch anyone either
Not the old Aldous Huxley line... 🥸. Be assured I will always be ready and prepared to punch the lights out of a dictator.
I do get the/your point though.
On a somewhat different tangent to the doom mongering that rampantly permeates the mainstream media, the number of UK tests per day skyrocketed above 500,000 (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing) just before Christmas, having only relatively recently surpassed 400,000 a day.
Naturally if more tests are conducted there will be more positive (and a certain percentage of false positive) cases, it wouldn't necessarily mean that there's been a rise in infections. The number of tests per confirmed case appears to have been relatively stable since mid October.
On a personal note I've had immediate family members go for a test before Christmas simply as a sensible precaution prior to meeting family. Not everybody who goes for a test is necessarily doing so because they have symptoms.
Quote from: ScalleysDad on December 31, 2020, 11:23:17 AM
Post of the day. I think the message will be ramped up now starting with a more robust line on physical distancing replacing the ever so p.c 'social distancing if you don't mind that would be awfully nice of you' stance we currently have. Personally I am going to take up the option of punching the lights out of anybody who tells me this is all a conspiracy, control measure, a bit like flu or indeed that they are immune and don't need a mask. There is an interview with a doctor on five live this morning now a BBC catch up podcast that should be made compulsory listening.
My mother, who had underlying health problems, died of pneumonia (attributed cause) as a result of catching a cold. I think it is entirely reasonable to state that Covid-19 is a "a bit like flu" in that sense - low mortality rates, but both are potentially deadly to anyone, especially to those with other health problems including the very elderly. The question is to what extent you take preventative measures, based on judging the risk and weighing the consequences. In the case of flu, we vaccinate the most vulnerable and carry on normal life, based on the assessment that stronger preventative measures would lead to worse consequences overall. In the case of Covid-19, we have concluded (rightly, in my opinion) that we have to do something beyond the normal to limit the spread, particularly in terms of much better hygiene and physical spacing, and elements of which should remain in place to counter all infectious illnesses long after the currently high levels of Covid-19 subside to "acceptable" levels and we resume the way we lived until last spring. (For example, more assiduousness in handwashing and avoiding overcrowding on trains and in pubs, maybe masks on public transport). At the moment, I think continuing Premier League football is a small risk outweighed by the benefit to people's psychological state. However, "punching my lights out" if I were to write that Covid-19 is in one sense like flu (as far as we can tell, more infectious, but about the same mortality rate and about the same rate for long term complications) is not much of a thoughtful or constructive contribution, and is unlikely to help persuade the extremists (e.g. those who are against all vaccinations or who think it is a conspiracy) that they are underestimating the seriousness of Covid-19.
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on December 31, 2020, 12:41:00 PM
On a somewhat different tangent to the doom mongering that rampantly permeates the mainstream media, the number of UK tests per day skyrocketed above 500,000 (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing) just before Christmas, having only relatively recently surpassed 400,000 a day.
Naturally if more tests are conducted there will be more positive (and a certain percentage of false positive) cases, it wouldn't necessarily mean that there's been a rise in infections. The number of tests per confirmed case appears to have been relatively stable since mid October.
On a personal note I've had immediate family members go for a test before Christmas simply as a sensible precaution prior to meeting family. Not everybody who goes for a test is necessarily doing so because they have symptoms.
The important numbers are those who are in hospital and the death rate sadly rising daily and will likely continue for a while.
Quote from: Plodder on December 31, 2020, 12:44:32 PM
Quote from: ScalleysDad on December 31, 2020, 11:23:17 AM
Post of the day. I think the message will be ramped up now starting with a more robust line on physical distancing replacing the ever so p.c 'social distancing if you don't mind that would be awfully nice of you' stance we currently have. Personally I am going to take up the option of punching the lights out of anybody who tells me this is all a conspiracy, control measure, a bit like flu or indeed that they are immune and don't need a mask. There is an interview with a doctor on five live this morning now a BBC catch up podcast that should be made compulsory listening.
My mother, who had underlying health problems, died of pneumonia (attributed cause) as a result of catching a cold. I think it is entirely reasonable to state that Covid-19 is a "a bit like flu" in that sense - low mortality rates, but both are potentially deadly to anyone, especially to those with other health problems including the very elderly. The question is to what extent you take preventative measures, based on judging the risk and weighing the consequences. In the case of flu, we vaccinate the most vulnerable and carry on normal life, based on the assessment that stronger preventative measures would lead to worse consequences overall. In the case of Covid-19, we have concluded (rightly, in my opinion) that we have to do something beyond the normal to limit the spread, particularly in terms of much better hygiene and physical spacing, and elements of which should remain in place to counter all infectious illnesses long after the currently high levels of Covid-19 subside to "acceptable" levels and we resume the way we lived until last spring. (For example, more assiduousness in handwashing and avoiding overcrowding on trains and in pubs, maybe masks on public transport). At the moment, I think continuing Premier League football is a small risk outweighed by the benefit to people's psychological state. However, "punching my lights out" if I were to write that Covid-19 is in one sense like flu (as far as we can tell, more infectious, but about the same mortality rate and about the same rate for long term complications) is not much of a thoughtful or constructive contribution, and is unlikely to help persuade the extremists (e.g. those who are against all vaccinations or who think it is a conspiracy) that they are underestimating the seriousness of Covid-19.
My condolences. Okay I will rephrase "punching lights out" to vigorously debating the pro and cons of opting to not wear a mask or observe physical distancing in the immediate vicinity of my immediate family at this current time. That will include the same people who walk in the middle of the path and absolutely refuse to give a bit or wait a moment for me to pass with the new grandchild. Of course it's only right that I take steps to walk in the middle of the road so that they can retain their smug stance of being untouchable and invincible. Of course I'm angry!
I think the 'extremists' may yet be persuaded if they catch up with the 5 live interview from this mornings news programme.
Quote from: The Rock on December 30, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
Quote from: FulhamStu on December 30, 2020, 05:17:00 PM
I am not making light of covid in any way and it's clearly a killer however people who would have died anyway but have covid are in the numbers. Likely covid bought forward deaths but not necessarily the main reason. It sounds crude but covid is not the only illness causing these deaths. Complicated. Roll on the vaccine and RIP those who we have lost.
Fair. When can I get my shot? 2022? That's for another thread.
Whilst there's some truth in this - Covid 19 is an efficient finisher of the vulnerable - it is as you say not that simple. Excess deaths - the number of deaths above a 5 year average - stands at 82,000 plus. This isn't just another bad flu year
Quote from: JimOG on December 31, 2020, 01:08:20 PM
Quote from: The Rock on December 30, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
Quote from: FulhamStu on December 30, 2020, 05:17:00 PM
I am not making light of covid in any way and it's clearly a killer however people who would have died anyway but have covid are in the numbers. Likely covid bought forward deaths but not necessarily the main reason. It sounds crude but covid is not the only illness causing these deaths. Complicated. Roll on the vaccine and RIP those who we have lost.
Fair. When can I get my shot? 2022? That's for another thread.
Whilst there's some truth in this - Covid 19 is an efficient finisher of the vulnerable - it is as you say not that simple. Excess deaths - the number of deaths above a 5 year average - stands at 82,000 plus. This isn't just another bad flu year
For context, the particularly cold winter of 2017/18 led to 50,100 excess deaths.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/30/excess-winter-deaths-in-england-and-wales-highest-since-1976
Quote from: mrmicawbers on December 31, 2020, 12:49:31 PM
Quote from: MikeTheCubed on December 31, 2020, 12:41:00 PM
On a somewhat different tangent to the doom mongering that rampantly permeates the mainstream media, the number of UK tests per day skyrocketed above 500,000 (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing) just before Christmas, having only relatively recently surpassed 400,000 a day.
Naturally if more tests are conducted there will be more positive (and a certain percentage of false positive) cases, it wouldn't necessarily mean that there's been a rise in infections. The number of tests per confirmed case appears to have been relatively stable since mid October.
On a personal note I've had immediate family members go for a test before Christmas simply as a sensible precaution prior to meeting family. Not everybody who goes for a test is necessarily doing so because they have symptoms.
The important numbers are those who are in hospital and the death rate sadly rising daily and will likely continue for a while.
I agree that those numbers are far more important. There is however a significant lag with death statistics from all causes in order to put it in to perspective, and it's important to keep in mind that the NHS is usually in a borderline crisis this time of year. Furthermore the statistics of ICU bed occupancy are somewhat murky; while there does appear to be an increase in cumulative beds occupied compared to previous years there also appears to be a higher number of beds available; so the percentage may actually be lower. Another added complication is postponement of treatment, which impacts in multiple ways.
When I see news reports about the increase of cases without mention of the increase in testing, even though that is a much less relevant statistic it still puts a dent in my trust of the overall story. If there was greater clarity in the reporting of cases I'd be more willing to accept the reporting of hospitalisations & fatalities.
Quote from: Statto on December 31, 2020, 01:20:39 PM
Quote from: JimOG on December 31, 2020, 01:08:20 PM
Quote from: The Rock on December 30, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
Quote from: FulhamStu on December 30, 2020, 05:17:00 PM
I am not making light of covid in any way and it's clearly a killer however people who would have died anyway but have covid are in the numbers. Likely covid bought forward deaths but not necessarily the main reason. It sounds crude but covid is not the only illness causing these deaths. Complicated. Roll on the vaccine and RIP those who we have lost.
Fair. When can I get my shot? 2022? That's for another thread.
Whilst there's some truth in this - Covid 19 is an efficient finisher of the vulnerable - it is as you say not that simple. Excess deaths - the number of deaths above a 5 year average - stands at 82,000 plus. This isn't just another bad flu year
For context, the particularly cold winter of 2017/18 led to 50,100 excess deaths.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/30/excess-winter-deaths-in-england-and-wales-highest-since-1976
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final
Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.
All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.
COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..
Be safe, take care.
Quote from: bobby01 on December 31, 2020, 02:38:32 PM
Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.
All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.
COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..
Be safe, take care.
So sorry to hear that news. Our condolences.
Probably an appropriate time to curtail this one as Burnley away has become sidetracked and somewhat irrelevant with this post from bobby. Start a new thread perhaps?
Quote from: bobby01 on December 31, 2020, 02:38:32 PM
Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.
All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.
COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..
Be safe, take care.
Really sorry to hear this....
Quote from: ScalleysDad on December 31, 2020, 02:46:52 PM
Quote from: bobby01 on December 31, 2020, 02:38:32 PM
Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.
All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.
COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..
Be safe, take care.
So sorry to hear that news. Our condolences.
Probably an appropriate time to curtail this one as Burnley away has become sidetracked and somewhat irrelevant with this post from bobby. Start a new thread perhaps?
Very sorry to hear this.
My condolences Bobby.
I guess we haven't all read about the "Kyle Walker party" rumours involving FFC players
If true, which I really hope not, it's bad news
Quote from: Baszab on December 31, 2020, 03:22:10 PM
I guess we haven't all read about the "Kyle Walker party" rumours involving FFC players
If true, which I really hope not, it's bad news
If anyone attended...10 days self isolation...two consecutive negative test (like Scott just did) then we're back to games. I'm expecting Kongolo and Tete to be available by then.
Quote from: bobby01 on December 31, 2020, 02:38:32 PM
Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.
All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.
COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..
Be safe, take care.
Oh man. We're all Fulham family members here. My heart goes out to you and your family. Take care.
Quote from: bobby01 on December 31, 2020, 02:38:32 PM
Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.
All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.
COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..
Be safe, take care.
Condolences Bobby, take care.
My condolences to you too Bobby
We lost our mother in April, aged 88, from a degenerative lung disease but were lucky to be able to spend the last couple of days in a hospice with her. Thankfully she didnt get Covid.
She would have hated being stuck indoors all through summer and not being able to see her wonderful neighbours, terrible time to be old
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on December 31, 2020, 11:19:56 AM
Me thinks mother nature getting her own back,too many folk on the planet,rain forests and others been destroyed for greed.
Oceans polluted to f***....No I'm not crazy🤔
OR quite simply it's the CCP !!!
Quote from: bobby01 on December 31, 2020, 02:38:32 PM
Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.
All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.
COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..
Be safe, take care.
Sorry To hear about your mum mate 🙏🏼
Quote from: bobby01 on December 31, 2020, 02:38:32 PM
Having read through these I am not saying what is right or wrong here. All I will say is my 91 year old mother had a fall at home and was temporarily unable to look after herself. She took a COVID test, negative , and was admitted to a respite hospital , she caught a chest infection and was tested again, negative, and was sent to a geriatric ward on the 20th and was being treated with antibiotics and some oxygen, on the 23rd she had improved so they were going to return her to the respite hospital. COVID test before she was due to go came up as positive. She then deteriorated and very sadly passed yesterday at 0300. We kept her safe for 9 months only for her to catch it in hospital.
All I ask is when you quote your facts and figures bear in mind COVID kills, she lived on her own was active and well for her age. It is heartbreaking to lose someone, even more so when you are not allowed to even see and support them.
COVID is not our usual disagreement over Cairney etc but is real and yes the government have probably made mistakes but if we all do our bit and follow the rules we may save some lives, I do not want anyone else to be crying like a baby when they write something like this..
Be safe, take care.
Sorry to hear this :( Hope you and the family are all ok.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on December 31, 2020, 04:13:07 PM
Quote from: Baszab on December 31, 2020, 03:22:10 PM
I guess we haven't all read about the "Kyle Walker party" rumours involving FFC players
If true, which I really hope not, it's bad news
If anyone attended...10 days self isolation...two consecutive negative test (like Scott just did) then we're back to games. I'm expecting Kongolo and Tete to be available by then.
You think that's ok? If, it is true, and I hope it isn't, then all the players who went should be severely punished. If theyare loanees, straight back to their clubs. If they are on contract, the maximum fine. That's the very least that should happen.
Quote from: ScalleysDad on December 31, 2020, 12:58:41 PM
My condolences. Okay I will rephrase "punching lights out" to vigorously debating the pro and cons of opting to not wear a mask or observe physical distancing in the immediate vicinity of my immediate family at this current time. That will include the same people who walk in the middle of the path and absolutely refuse to give a bit or wait a moment for me to pass with the new grandchild. Of course it's only right that I take steps to walk in the middle of the road so that they can retain their smug stance of being untouchable and invincible. Of course I'm angry!
I think the 'extremists' may yet be persuaded if they catch up with the 5 live interview from this mornings news programme.
I think we are on common ground in expecting consideration and decent behaviour from everyone. There are some pig-headed people who make no effort to make space for others, which they should do, irrespective of their own views about the measure. They should also wear a mask on public transport, in shops etc. whatever their personal views. There is no excuse for not doing so. That being said, there are some self-righteous people from the other end of the spectrum. In the first lockdown, taking my allotted one hour exercise with my sons in an otherwise deserted park, a man walking his dog over 100 yards away made a detour to come to us just to tell us that we were "spreading the disease" by being out at all, and our exercise "was not essential". I had a similar experience when walking in London to get to another building (I work in central London) without a mask on in a quiet street a few weeks ago, always at a distance from others - a woman made it her business to cross the road come up close and tell me from a distance of about a metre that I should not be outside anywhere under any circumstances without a mask on (I hope it was to do with Covid-19, not to do with the aesthetic quality or otherwise of my face).
Everyone should follow the rules, and whatever their opinions, have consideration and respect for others, and not seek to provoke discord.
"Professor Hugh Montgomery told BBC Radio 5 Live hospitals were facing a "tsunami" of Covid cases and he feared it would get worse after New Year's Eve.
The intensive care doctor said that it was wrong to blame the surge in cases and deaths on the new variant of coronavirus rather than people not following mask rules or social distancing." (Interview currently on the BBC's website.)
I think that is what Hancock and the Prime Minister are afraid to say. They keep on about how nearly everyone is doing their bit to help, but judging by the surge in numbers since September, it seems as though plenty aren't.
Thank you to my Fulham family for your kind words. I did not mean to come across as preaching to anyone, just to highlight the fact that this bug can get you for the slightest mistake.. I wish you all a happy new year and hope you all stay safe.
Has anybody informed the virus of the rules..
Quote from: andyk on December 31, 2020, 06:00:20 PM
You think that's ok? If, it is true, and I hope it isn't, then all the players who went should be severely punished. If theyare loanees, straight back to their clubs.
...unless it was Lookman, Anderson or Areola. We need them badly. So a £30 fine will do.
Quote from: Statto on December 31, 2020, 07:56:59 PM
Quote from: andyk on December 31, 2020, 06:00:20 PM
You think that's ok? If, it is true, and I hope it isn't, then all the players who went should be severely punished. If theyare loanees, straight back to their clubs.
...unless it was Lookman, Anderson or Areola. We need them badly. So just a slap on the wrist please.
Sorry, but there are more important things than winning football matches.
Quote from: andyk on December 31, 2020, 06:00:20 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on December 31, 2020, 04:13:07 PM
Quote from: Baszab on December 31, 2020, 03:22:10 PM
I guess we haven't all read about the "Kyle Walker party" rumours involving FFC players
If true, which I really hope not, it's bad news
If anyone attended...10 days self isolation...two consecutive negative test (like Scott just did) then we're back to games. I'm expecting Kongolo and Tete to be available by then.
You think that's ok? If, it is true, and I hope it isn't, then all the players who went should be severely punished. If theyare loanees, straight back to their clubs. If they are on contract, the maximum fine. That's the very least that should happen.
They shouldn't have gone. We agree.
I don't feel your suggestion of sending the loan players back to their owning clubs fits the crime. I mean, it's not even a crime really. Just poor decision making.
IMO a HEAVY fine would be appropriate for their poor decision making.
Quote from: bobby01 on December 31, 2020, 07:53:43 PM
Thank you to my Fulham family for your kind words. I did not mean to come across as preaching to anyone, just to highlight the fact that this bug can get you for the slightest mistake.. I wish you all a happy new year and hope you all stay safe.
Bobby can I add my condolences too.
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on December 31, 2020, 08:21:52 PM
Quote from: andyk on December 31, 2020, 06:00:20 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on December 31, 2020, 04:13:07 PM
Quote from: Baszab on December 31, 2020, 03:22:10 PM
I guess we haven't all read about the "Kyle Walker party" rumours involving FFC players
If true, which I really hope not, it's bad news
If anyone attended...10 days self isolation...two consecutive negative test (like Scott just did) then we're back to games. I'm expecting Kongolo and Tete to be available by then.
You think that's ok? If, it is true, and I hope it isn't, then all the players who went should be severely punished. If theyare loanees, straight back to their clubs. If they are on contract, the maximum fine. That's the very least that should happen.
They shouldn't have gone. We agree.
I don't feel your suggestion of sending the loan players back to their owning clubs fits the crime. I mean, it's not even a crime really. Just poor decision making.
IMO a HEAVY fine would be appropriate for their poor decision making.
We still don't know the facts, but if a player did break the rules, the consequences could be disastrous. Not just the health aspects, with the entire squad, coaching staff, physios, etc put at risk of infection. Two of Newcastle's players are still not fully recovered from their problems, over a month ago.
The Prem League will not be sympathetic to us, if this is proven to be true. They would be within their rights to tell us to isolate all infected players for 14 days and play the games with whatever fit players we can muster. Crucial games with a seriously depleted squad.
Andyk - regarding your post
'They would be within their rights to tell us to isolate all infected players for 14 days and play the games with whatever fit players we can muster. Crucial games with a seriously depleted squad.'
Isn't that what the Premier League will decide anyway. I am not expecting the Burnley game to be cancelled if we can field 11 starters and a few subs. The only way Burnley is cancelled is if we had more positive tests after cancelled Spurs game.
Quote from: andyk on January 01, 2021, 01:33:01 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on December 31, 2020, 08:21:52 PM
Quote from: andyk on December 31, 2020, 06:00:20 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on December 31, 2020, 04:13:07 PM
Quote from: Baszab on December 31, 2020, 03:22:10 PM
I guess we haven't all read about the "Kyle Walker party" rumours involving FFC players
If true, which I really hope not, it's bad news
If anyone attended...10 days self isolation...two consecutive negative test (like Scott just did) then we're back to games. I'm expecting Kongolo and Tete to be available by then.
You think that's ok? If, it is true, and I hope it isn't, then all the players who went should be severely punished. If theyare loanees, straight back to their clubs. If they are on contract, the maximum fine. That's the very least that should happen.
They shouldn't have gone. We agree.
I don't feel your suggestion of sending the loan players back to their owning clubs fits the crime. I mean, it's not even a crime really. Just poor decision making.
IMO a HEAVY fine would be appropriate for their poor decision making.
We still don't know the facts, but if a player did break the rules, the consequences could be disastrous. Not just the health aspects, with the entire squad, coaching staff, physios, etc put at risk of infection. Two of Newcastle's players are still not fully recovered from their problems, over a month ago.
The Prem League will not be sympathetic to us, if this is proven to be true. They would be within their rights to tell us to isolate all infected players for 14 days and play the games with whatever fit players we can muster. Crucial games with a seriously depleted squad.
A load of footballers mixing closely with each other. Doesn't sound that shocking to me. Ain't that what they do on the pitch each week anyway?
As for the Newcastle players, if you believe Steve Bruce you'll believe anything. He'll make any excuse to hide him being a crap manager. Even if (big if) some players are still ill it's hardly disastrous. Flu symptoms often knock around for a few weeks.
Quote from: Slaphead in Qatar on January 01, 2021, 01:42:03 PM
Andyk - regarding your post
'They would be within their rights to tell us to isolate all infected players for 14 days and play the games with whatever fit players we can muster. Crucial games with a seriously depleted squad.'
Isn't that what the Premier League will decide anyway. I am not expecting the Burnley game to be cancelled if we can field 11 starters and a few subs. The only way Burnley is cancelled is if we had more positive tests after cancelled Spurs game.
That seems to be the case. But it could be worse. What if Anguissa, Lookman, Anderson and Arieola all get sick. What if they get the nasty lung disease associated with this virus.
I work in acute healthcare. I've seen dozens of young people, under 40, struck down with widespread bilateral lung infiltrates. They have chest xrays which resemble advanced pneumonia They require hospital admission, supplemental oxygen and weeks of rehabilitation. This virus is normally a week or two of fatigue, high temp or even less for fit people, but for some it is really serious. The problem is , at the moment , there is no way of knowing why certain individuals are impacted so seriously by Covid.
So, if one pampered, highly paid individual couldn't sit in his luxury apartment for a few months and protect his team mates, then he can clear off.
