As we knew it? Is there too much money in the sport now? Is football too freely available on TV, affecting attendances?
Feel free to add other questions.
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One of those emoji's is out of sync, I'll let you figure out which one.
Quote from: blingo on April 28, 2021, 09:06:00 AM
As we knew it? Is there too much money in the sport now? Is football too freely available on TV, affecting attendances?
Feel free to add other questions.
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I know what you are saying Mr B, but for those of us that can't get to games anymore I love it, but that's just my selfish self coming out.
Well I was always critical of TV and the influence it had on the game but where would we have been without it during Lockdown. I have watched every Fulham match live on TV this season using BBC, BT, Sky and Amazom Prime, the coverage has been great.
I find televised football a bit sterile. I often find I've turned a match on only to drift off and do something else. I detest the way VAR has been implemented. And whilst I've never had much time for the global game's administrators my opinion has dropped even lower. As to the six owners who threw their hats in with the self serving, greedy ESL, words fail me.
Add in the shocking racist vilification that some players have to suffer on social media platforms and well, I don't think the games in a healthy place right now.
The other day we went down to our local club, Hanwell Town, in the Isthmian League to introduce ourselves and meet some of the Board members. I think that is where my main interests lie for the future.
The TV companies has learnt a lot from the last year. How they can 'maximize' profits in the future. They were headed in that particular direction, this has helped them accelerate that journey. A 'virtual' experience. So you have the fans at the stadiums, but you also have fans at home etc who get the 'feeling' of being there. I cost of the 'virtual' experience will be more, you can swap locations etc.
We all appreciate the TV during lockdown and it is generally a massive good thing for people who cannot make it to the game.
But in my mind, withoiut question TV and the money, both together and individually, have mnade professional football way less exciting, more sterile and less of a pleasure than before.
the game is done for TV, soundbites and inteeviews. Not for the beterment of the game and spectacle. The supporter that actually pays and goers to the game is very much treated as asecond class citizen. We can all see that it is the paying public that makes the game such a thrilling spectacle and the lack of crowd makes the game worse.
I despair of the people that rule football and the clubs. It is now a soley for profits activity at the top level, where cheating by the players and corruption of the officials is the norm and tolerated on a daily basis. The TV does little to expose the wrongs and helps perpetrate the malaise.
I think it is an issue about sole rights. When you had to attend a game to know what happened because the only other avenues of information were word of mouth or written reports then that was because there was no widespread radio or TV coverage. The football results were about as good as it got. National terrestrial coverage of cup finals, internationals, and news reports helped fill in the gaps, but you really needed to get to games to experience the thrills. Now there is the possibility of allowing people (when normality is resumed) to attend or watch a game live which are really two different experiences which need to be priced differently but not to the extent of extortion on either side. And that is the problem with sole rights which enables extortion.
Stop the greed in and around professional football and it may return to being the product we knew and loved in our younger lives, but the media need to stop inflating the big clubs to the detriment of grass roots football. What makes me smile is the media are so entrenched in 'equality' that they have forgotten how football grew up to be what it is now in England because someone thought it would be nice to sit down and watch others play rather than play it themselves. It didn't have to a be a top match that someone sat down and watched but when the hat came around for donations the amount donated may have been an indication of how good or bad the watching was, and tested the performers into wanting to play a little bit better next time around, perhaps. A modest original idea that became a monster.
And while we are on the subject of TV OI think the cobverage is less good.
Way to many lingering shots of an individual player or manager whilst the game is going on.
Too many replays whilst the game is going on.
I am not sure why that got worse.
They should show the game live and keep replays for half time and post match, other than VAR stuff.
Well, video killed the radio star
Ahhhh Mr Tosh, memories of listening to the radio or having the half time results over the tannoy. Everyone and his dog staying after the final whistle to hear the full time results, with massive cheers or boos depending on whether or not the results were in our favour. The team coming back out and waving to the crowds. No VAR the refs decision was final. Where has it all gone wrong?
Yes, I am finding premier football really boring now. It has turned into basketball...we have the ball, you have the ball and when you don't have the ball, get everyone behind the ball.
I watch every Fulham game and given that I can watch every premier game, I have been selective. Ignore the top 6 and watch the teams around Fulham which gives me some interest in the result. Always hoping for someone to lose. Brighton, Burnley, Newcastle etc)
I was fortunate enough to watch chelsea 2 wba 5. (with mixed feelings). I wanted them both to lose.
Quote from: jarv on April 28, 2021, 01:21:26 PM
Yes, I am finding premier football really boring now. It has turned into basketball...we have the ball, you have the ball and when you don't have the ball, get everyone behind the ball.
I watch every Fulham game and given that I can watch every premier game, I have been selective. Ignore the top 6 and watch the teams around Fulham which gives me some interest in the result. Always hoping for someone to lose. Brighton, Burnley, Newcastle etc)
I was fortunate enough to watch chelsea 2 wba 5. (with mixed feelings). I wanted them both to lose.
I watch it all on DAZN or BEIN sports depending on whether i'm in Gib or Spain Mr Jarv. DAZN also show the Championship so Iwill be able to watch next season too, although I don't think it will be a priority with SP and TK at the helm.
Quote from: blingo on April 28, 2021, 11:42:31 AM
Ahhhh Mr Tosh, memories of listening to the radio or having the half time results over the tannoy. Everyone and his dog staying after the final whistle to hear the full time results, with massive cheers or boos depending on whether or not the results were in our favour. The team coming back out and waving to the crowds. No VAR the refs decision was final. Where has it all gone wrong?
Tannoy Blingo? In my day they put the half-times onto hooks on the boundary fencing! Each game had a letter as a code and you needed to buy a programme to find out the code! I can just about remember changing ends at half-time - how old am I? EEK!
Like you, I depend on the TV matches these days, though I do get to the occasional match "oop north". As Toshes mate said, it is the sole rights that is the main issue; that equates to a licence to charge what they like. I would like to see the clubs control the TV rather than the other way round. Each club could charge for watching its home games. Presumably they would have to pay a TV company to broadcast for them but it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to devise a system that is fair to all concerned.
Quote from: jarv on April 28, 2021, 01:21:26 PM
Yes, I am finding premier football really boring now. It has turned into basketball...we have the ball, you have the ball and when you don't have the ball, get everyone behind the ball.
I watch every Fulham game and given that I can watch every premier game, I have been selective. Ignore the top 6 and watch the teams around Fulham which gives me some interest in the result. Always hoping for someone to lose. Brighton, Burnley, Newcastle etc)
I was fortunate enough to watch chelsea 2 wba 5. (with mixed feelings). I wanted them both to lose.
It depends which teams you watch, most people will 'gravitate' to teams that play their preferred style of football, how their preferred style of football competes with other styles of football i.e. how Man City deal with Leicester's direct style etc. How high energy plays against creative / passing styles etc.
I don't think so, I think football is doing it itself. I think, the majority of the 25,000 that go week in/out to the Cottage would still go even if every game was on TV. Just my opinion of course.
In my view, what's killing football is football itself. Expanding CL, VAR, the standard of football in general is really poor in my view, too much instant success demanded, no time to develop and integrate talent, Fulham are a great example, games deemed too important to play Harvey Elliot & Patrick Roberts. Remove Man City and a couple of Liverpool players, there are very few skilful players to get you up off your seat. Functional players now. Athletes.
Money hasn't helped, exaggerated wages has turned the desire to win to a desire to have the biggest car, house, watch.
Football is in a bad place, the finances are false, how can Barca be close to being bankrupt!
Football needs a reset but of coure, never going to happen.
Combination of many things is killing football... I reckon they've all been covered in here, but would add the 'softness' is killing it as well. Can't watch a game now without getting frustrated that a perfectly good tackle is given as a foul because it was deemed slightly over the top or slightly out of control.
TV is not really responsible for killing football and I don't think it's had a significant effect on attendances either. At least it's not more responsible than cars are for road accidents without looking at who is driving the car.
"TV is killing football" because watching football on TV means all kids end up supporting the same few teams. For every single "Burnley Fan" there reportedly between 200 and 2,000 "Manchester United Fans". I would imagine in the 60s that ratio would have been 1 Burnley Fan for every 10 ManUnited Fans, and it will get worse than currently 1 to 2000.
Young Kids switch on a TV to watch football, then they choose a team frequently shown on TV and when they get older see that BIG SIX team. All other teams make most of their money from fans of BIG SIX Club watches them on TV and getting their cut. Small Clubs can demand a fair cut of the BIG SIX revenue, but sure to get less every year.
Now, the "TV Fans of the Big Six Clubs" provide most of the revenue for UK football. Hence, most of the money Fulham receives is so the Big Clubs have a half-decent opposition to play in a domestic league. Going forward, Big Clubs will realize that ultimately they can keep more of their fans revenue if they play other Big Clubs with fans.
If kids choice teams on TV, then I can see a 16 team domestic competition in the Premier League and the league ending up like "La Liga" with the bottom of the division beings shooting practive for the big teams.
Quote from: LittleErn on April 28, 2021, 03:04:10 PM
Quote from: blingo on April 28, 2021, 11:42:31 AM
Ahhhh Mr Tosh, memories of listening to the radio or having the half time results over the tannoy. Everyone and his dog staying after the final whistle to hear the full time results, with massive cheers or boos depending on whether or not the results were in our favour. The team coming back out and waving to the crowds. No VAR the refs decision was final. Where has it all gone wrong?
Tannoy Blingo? In my day they put the half-times onto hooks on the boundary fencing! Each game had a letter as a code and you needed to buy a programme to find out the code! I can just about remember changing ends at half-time - how old am I? EEK!
Like you, I depend on the TV matches these days, though I do get to the occasional match "oop north". As Toshes mate said, it is the sole rights that is the main issue; that equates to a licence to charge what they like. I would like to see the clubs control the TV rather than the other way round. Each club could charge for watching its home games. Presumably they would have to pay a TV company to broadcast for them but it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to devise a system that is fair to all concerned.
You're referring to the innovative half-time scoreboard!
Which went along with the flags of all the First Division clubs along the river - this was seen as pretty cool at the time.
Who was it is supposed to have said that the flags wouldn't be taken down after we were relegated, because we'd soon be back? Imagine what opposing Second Division fans thought of that idea.
TV has been a saviour for fans during lockdown. But generally it's TV companies, begun with Sky, that has invested/made, so much cash into/from the game, making it a lucrative world wide product, attracting all these millionaire foreign owners, and players to clubs, that were traditionally owned by a local businessman, prepared to take a financial hit, to indulge his passion for the club he'd always supported.
It's not TV in itself that has caused the problems in football. If you still only had the BBC and ITV channels, then things would probably still be much as they were when we were young.
Just saying.
Football was a mainly working-class sport, with a poor image for many middle class people, associated with violent hooliganism.
Margaret Thatcher proposed id cards for fans, because of this image
.
But now, who in the public eye, celebs, politicians, Royals, doesn't have a team they claim to support? and football makes the front pages, as well as the back.
But there are still the majority of clubs struggling to make ends meet, to meet that balance between culture and business, while the few are raking in money, and have a monopoly of success.
Clubs like Fulham, and many far worse off, will always struggle to succeed in this environment, and a lot would be jealous of the success we have had in recent years, and have still- being in the Prem, even if it may not be for much longer, but with millionaire owners, we have a good prospect of return.
Quote from: rebel on April 28, 2021, 09:46:17 AM
One of those emoji's is out of sync, I'll let you figure out which one.
You're sharp Mr Rebel. Not as sharp as my mums tongue........but sharp lol.
Wall to wall tv is certainly killing football. Instead of having teams watched managers can now build up huge dossiers on all opposition teams. It means that unless a club has a player who can continually changes the style of his game it is known exactly how he will play. In fact exactly how the whole team will play. It's why we could not duplicate our game against Everton. Other managers watch and nullify our game plan
Quote from: RaySmith on April 29, 2021, 08:24:33 AM
Quote from: LittleErn on April 28, 2021, 03:04:10 PM
Quote from: blingo on April 28, 2021, 11:42:31 AM
Ahhhh Mr Tosh, memories of listening to the radio or having the half time results over the tannoy. Everyone and his dog staying after the final whistle to hear the full time results, with massive cheers or boos depending on whether or not the results were in our favour. The team coming back out and waving to the crowds. No VAR the refs decision was final. Where has it all gone wrong?
Tannoy Blingo? In my day they put the half-times onto hooks on the boundary fencing! Each game had a letter as a code and you needed to buy a programme to find out the code! I can just about remember changing ends at half-time - how old am I? EEK!
Like you, I depend on the TV matches these days, though I do get to the occasional match "oop north". As Toshes mate said, it is the sole rights that is the main issue; that equates to a licence to charge what they like. I would like to see the clubs control the TV rather than the other way round. Each club could charge for watching its home games. Presumably they would have to pay a TV company to broadcast for them but it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to devise a system that is fair to all concerned.
You're referring to the innovative half-time scoreboard!
Which went along with the flags of all the First Division clubs along the river - this was seen as pretty cool at the time.
Who was it is supposed to have said that the flags wouldn't be taken down after we were relegated, because we'd soon be back? Imagine what opposing Second Division fans thought of that idea.
TV has been a saviour for fans during lockdown. But generally it's TV companies, begun with Sky, that has invested/made, so much cash into/from the game, making it a lucrative world wide product, attracting all these millionaire foreign owners, and players to clubs, that were traditionally owned by a local businessman, prepared to take a financial hit, to indulge his passion for the club he'd always supported.
It's not TV in itself that has caused the problems in football. If you still only had the BBC and ITV channels, then things would probably still be much as they were when we were young.
Just saying.
Football was a mainly working-class sport, with a poor image for many middle class people, associated with violent hooliganism.
Margaret Thatcher proposed id cards for fans, because of this image
.
But now, who in the public eye, celebs, politicians, Royals, doesn't have a team they claim to support? and football makes the front pages, as well as the back.
But there are still the majority of clubs struggling to make ends meet, to meet that balance between culture and business, while the few are raking in money, and have a monopoly of success.
Clubs like Fulham, and many far worse off, will always struggle to succeed in this environment, and a lot would be jealous of the success we have had in recent years, and have still- being in the Prem, even if it may not be for much longer, but with millionaire owners, we have a good prospect of return.
I'd forgotten the flags blowing proudly in the wind coming off of the river. Looked really good. now and then an old boy (40+) would ask you who our biggest crowd was and you would always listen out of respect.....Well it was Millwall my old son, over 49,000 at the cottage. Standing room only, no seats. IT was fantastic, and something I really looked forward to. I never had to be asked if I was going to the "Cottage" when we played, it was a given. I'd pester my mum for the entrance and programme fee, and off I would go with my older cousin and a few of his mates. It's amazing how the memories flood back. They were really good times Mr Smith.
Quote from: RaySmith on April 29, 2021, 08:24:33 AM
Quote from: LittleErn on April 28, 2021, 03:04:10 PM
Quote from: blingo on April 28, 2021, 11:42:31 AM
Ahhhh Mr Tosh, memories of listening to the radio or having the half time results over the tannoy. Everyone and his dog staying after the final whistle to hear the full time results, with massive cheers or boos depending on whether or not the results were in our favour. The team coming back out and waving to the crowds. No VAR the refs decision was final. Where has it all gone wrong?
Tannoy Blingo? In my day they put the half-times onto hooks on the boundary fencing! Each game had a letter as a code and you needed to buy a programme to find out the code! I can just about remember changing ends at half-time - how old am I? EEK!
Like you, I depend on the TV matches these days, though I do get to the occasional match "oop north". As Toshes mate said, it is the sole rights that is the main issue; that equates to a licence to charge what they like. I would like to see the clubs control the TV rather than the other way round. Each club could charge for watching its home games. Presumably they would have to pay a TV company to broadcast for them but it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to devise a system that is fair to all concerned.
You're referring to the innovative half-time scoreboard!
Which went along with the flags of all the First Division clubs along the river - this was seen as pretty cool at the time.
Who was it is supposed to have said that the flags wouldn't be taken down after we were relegated, because we'd soon be back? Imagine what opposing Second Division fans thought of that idea.
TV has been a saviour for fans during lockdown. But generally it's TV companies, begun with Sky, that has invested/made, so much cash into/from the game, making it a lucrative world wide product, attracting all these millionaire foreign owners, and players to clubs, that were traditionally owned by a local businessman, prepared to take a financial hit, to indulge his passion for the club he'd always supported.
It's not TV in itself that has caused the problems in football. If you still only had the BBC and ITV channels, then things would probably still be much as they were when we were young.
Just saying.
Football was a mainly working-class sport, with a poor image for many middle class people, associated with violent hooliganism.
Margaret Thatcher proposed id cards for fans, because of this image
.
But now, who in the public eye, celebs, politicians, Royals, doesn't have a team they claim to support? and football makes the front pages, as well as the back.
But there are still the majority of clubs struggling to make ends meet, to meet that balance between culture and business, while the few are raking in money, and have a monopoly of success.
Clubs like Fulham, and many far worse off, will always struggle to succeed in this environment, and a lot would be jealous of the success we have had in recent years, and have still- being in the Prem, even if it may not be for much longer, but with millionaire owners, we have a good prospect of return.
So True, Football still mostly has its roots in the working class. The problem is working class kids are growing up watching and supporting the few best teams in the world, when they grow up only those that make the leap to the upper-middle class can afford to see the best teams every week, while millions of working class kids grow up to be working class so unable to afford to watch their team more than once a week and not interested in changing teams to club they can afford.
TV has caused this chaos, because in the old dads you supported a team that you dad or other family member could afford so people supported a diversity of teams, rather than 10m people suppprting ManUnited in the UK alone.
