Did his bit in the shootout, pity he didn't take one.
Seeing as nearly all his kicks find touch or never find a player from his team. Best not have him kicking the ball.
There are many reasons why we lost final. None can be linked to Pickford. For so his faults, he played his part in what should h e been a min. Perhaps focus more on late subs & having boys take the responsibility of men. Italy backed experience & knowledge, England gambled & lost. Pickford was five. Made good saves. Southgate was good bar last 180 seconds. We will lead. From this.
Spell check sorry.
Pickford was fine.
We will learn from this.
We've been saying we will learn from this since 1966. We never do
Practice penalties until you are sick then practice some more. I get fed up with experts saying you cannot blame anyone for missing a penalty due to the pressure. Just run up and hit it as hard as you can. Don't try to out smart the keeper. It's not in any way difficult. All the odds are stacked in favour of the penalty taker
"All the odds are stacked in favour of the penalty taker"
I'm not sure that is right.
It may be when you take one when your team is 3-0 up and coasting to an easy win, but when (like our last pen taker) you know if you miss we lose a final, and you are facing a seriously large and athletic keeper like the Italian one ......
It is a bit like picking the order for singles on the last day of the Ryder Cup. Do you put your best out first and hope to inspire confidence by a solid start, or do you keep the most experienced and reliable back in case the chips are really down? Easy enough with hindsight, but asking such young and inexperienced players to take the last few, especially when two of them had hardly been on the pitch, was "ambitious".
Penalties by their very nature, are stacked in favour of the spot kicker, than the goalkeeper. We hamper even the smallest of advantages keepers can try and get by insisting they can't be too far forward when its kicked to reduce the angle spread to the corners. So, if a player hits the ball well enough, into the side netting, keepers even guessing the correct way, can't get to those corners quick enough. Even the huge Italian keeper can't.
Maguire's penalty precisely illustrates Andy S's and FFC1987's point about them. His risk was all about getting a good contact with the ball and hitting the corner of the net high up. That takes confidence in his ability to get good contact and compeletly negates the keeper's movement if he does so. Other takers can get the 'keeper to commit and roll the ball firmly to the opposite side and the risk appears if the 'keeper delays commitment long enough. That technique is more risky with certain very agile 'keepers IMO. If penalty takers can use both methods with confidence then they should be able to score much more often than they miss. It's all about practicing with different 'keeper styles until you are as good as you can get.
I have no criticism of Pickford (had a great tournament), the penalty takers or Southgate (one of our best managers ever).
We have achieved our second-best result ever, with only 2 goals conceded in 7 matches. If things had turned out just a little bit differently we could have had a hero in Shaw or Pickford and, definitely, Southgate.
I write as someone who has followed England since the South American tour of 1959.
The finger of blame lies solely at the door of the inept, clueless manager, whose tactic and decision making were wrong from the first kick of the tournament.
Barring the Germany game, we didn't deserve to be in the final. The better team won. We attacked them, scored a goal and sat back for 88 minute.
I was hoping he'd run out of time before bringing on sancho and Rushford, because doing it with 2 minutes if the game remaining, was unbelievably poor.
Poor Saka. This while experience of missing the vital penalty and then the abuse he is suffering, could well ruin his promising career. Why our more experienced players allowed someone of 18, who doesn't even take penalties at club level, is beyond me. They should be ashamed.
Henderson needs to retire from international football. Poor player anyway, but worse last night. Kane went missing, but that was down to Southgates Parker ball tactics.
7 defensively minded players started yesterday, he went for penalties but got lucky with the early goal. Hated Southgate as a player and hate him even more now.
Also, before I leave, the English "fans" that have abused Danish children, fought amongst themselves, and sent some of the worst racist abuse I've seen, to young lads that have had more success in their short lives, than these cocaine abusing, fat embarrassments, deserve all the trouble they get. I'm embarrassed to be English.
Yes - agree with pretty much all of that.
It was poor in-game management from the Southgate. If he had made tactical changes at vital moments in the match, it would have almost certainly changed the course of the game back into England's favour.
His plan to revert to negative tactics whenever England found themselves in a winning position reminded me of Parker over the last two seasons.
I feel sorry for Saka and indeed Rashford and Sancho. Interesting that Grealish has been on social media stating today that he wanted to take one of the penalties (although I guess you could say he is only revealing this to protect his reputation). Be interesting to see if he is dropped from the squad as a result....
DCL didn't even get on the pitch.
Southgate says he picked the penalty takers and that Grealish had asked if he could take one.
Quote from: Fulham1959 on July 12, 2021, 12:45:36 PM
I have no criticism of Pickford (had a great tournament), the penalty takers or Southgate (one of our best managers ever).
We have achieved our second-best result ever, with only 2 goals conceded in 7 matches. If things had turned out just a little bit differently we could have had a hero in Shaw or Pickford and, definitely, Southgate.
I write as someone who has followed England since the South American tour of 1959.
Well said. Finally a bunch to be proud of.
Quote from: Andy S on July 12, 2021, 10:38:18 AM
We've been saying we will learn from this since 1966. We never do
I think we do, though as there seem to be so many more ways not to win a trophy than there is to actual win one, we should be getting closer within my grandchildren's lifetimes :005:
For the first time no GK errors and only conceded 2 goals all tournament
His save from Verratti's header just before Bonucci was outstanding as well, unlucky to come back off the post straight to them.
Thought he was excellent all tournament bar a couple of shaky moments in the semi's.
Always backed Donnarumma in the shoutout though, he's an agile man mountain.
The most annoying thing is that Saka's kick was identical to the previous Englnd kick, both Batty height to the keeper's left. Perfect for saving and halfway between keeper and the post. Could not have been worse.
I find it unbelievable that they did not all blast it, high like we did in the World Cup and Kane and Maguire did. I think Southgate allows the player scope to decide, which is entirely wrong.
Take all freedom of thought out of it and just get them to robotically hit it hard and to the sides. Every single time.Decide who takes the kicks beforehand ie those saying yes and those saying no. Then decide the order.Tell them it.
Do not let any players change mind or style of kick.It only leads to Lookman type idiocy.
Quote from: RufusBrevettatemyhamster on July 12, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
these cocaine abusing, fat embarrassments, deserve all the trouble they get. I'm embarrassed to be English.
Bit harsh on Grealish to call him "fat"
:005:
Southgate got everything right for most of the tournament until the second half of the final, when he was too slow to react and too conservative. I think there's an argument to be made that it wasn't fair on Rashford and Sancho to barely play them the whole tournament and then just bring them on to take a penalty.
However I agree with Fulham1959 that he is one of our best ever managers and certainly not inept.
