Has turned down the offer of a new contract !
Makes you wonder why we bother ?
Next up Fabio Carvalho on Jan 1st.
He probably thinks that unlike Fabio his opportunities are limited.
Quote from: Riversider on October 08, 2021, 09:01:13 AM
Has turned down the offer of a new contract !
Makes you wonder why we bother ?
Next up Fabio Carvalho on Jan 1st.
It certainly does, I would like to see an independent report comparing the Brentford non academy set up to our arrangement where we seem to be producing players for other clubs.
I wonder how much our academy costs to run against what we get in sell on fees.
Well he started in the team and then lost his place and now finds himself behind
Reed
Seri
Chalobah
Onomah
To go from playing well to being well down the pecking order can you blame him?
Quote from: MJG on October 08, 2021, 10:47:07 AM
Well he started in the team and then lost his place and now finds himself behind
Reed
Seri
Chalobah
Onomah
To go from playing well to being well down the pecking order can you blame him?
At the club for 8 years. Played in Premiership. Got the opportunity here to fight for a place and be part of a promotion winning side.
Seems to me, he'd just need to fight to push out one out of those to make the bench at least.
Can I blame him? I don't know what the alternative is, but I guess its not first team footie in the premiership. What would I do? I'd believe in my ability, fight for my place and make the decision for the manager.
Its not always the clubs fault
Quote from: MJG on October 08, 2021, 10:47:07 AM
Well he started in the team and then lost his place and now finds himself behind
Reed
Seri
Chalobah
Onomah
To go from playing well to being well down the pecking order can you blame him?
He was injured soon after his first squad appearances, hence the reason he's not been in and around the team.
I'd not say he's quite as good as Onomah, Chalobah, Reed, Seri so if we lost him can't see it being the worst thing ever, though always annoying to lose a first squad member who has been with the club for so long.
Quote from: MJG on October 08, 2021, 10:47:07 AM
Well he started in the team and then lost his place and now finds himself behind
Reed
Seri
Chalobah
Onomah
To go from playing well to being well down the pecking order can you blame him?
Also there have been injuries to midfield players and the midfield has been underperforming as a unit so I suppose he reasons that if he is not getting game time now he never will.
Quote from: filham on October 08, 2021, 10:01:41 AM
Quote from: Riversider on October 08, 2021, 09:01:13 AM
Has turned down the offer of a new contract !
Makes you wonder why we bother ?
Next up Fabio Carvalho on Jan 1st.
It certainly does, I would like to see an independent report comparing the Brentford non academy set up to our arrangement where we seem to be producing players for other clubs.
The Academy system was set up to produce home grown players for the EFL / PL and as such each club receives £ an amount from the EFL / PL towards funding the running of the Academy based on the category rating of that Academy - Every club that has an Academy is producing players for the EFL / PL and the majority of players will move clubs at U16 (when not offered scholarships at incumbent club) or U18 when Pro contracts come into play (as the route to U23 / first team is a narrow pathway for a premiership / high championship club - or they just don't like playing for that club)
If the club manages to produce an exceptional talent then it's really up to the club to offer a contract / playing pathway to the player that makes it difficult for the player to refuse.
The only way this will change is a revamp of the scholarship / academy process whereby both parties confirm commitment for XXX amount of years after the scholarship period (ie, player can't leave at 18 but the club can't bin them off without a professional contract either)
Would be equally interesting to see the amount of players that don't get offered contracts at U18 (and leave the club / football) as opposed to those that refuse to sign contracts at U18 (and leave for other 'bigger' clubs)
Quote from: Jim© on October 08, 2021, 12:45:46 PM
Quote from: MJG on October 08, 2021, 10:47:07 AM
Well he started in the team and then lost his place and now finds himself behind
Reed
Seri
Chalobah
Onomah
To go from playing well to being well down the pecking order can you blame him?
He was injured soon after his first squad appearances, hence the reason he's not been in and around the team.
I'd not say he's quite as good as Onomah, Chalobah, Reed, Seri so if we lost him can't see it being the worst thing ever, though always annoying to lose a first squad member who has been with the club for so long.
Francois has not played enough games to make a judgement whether or not he is as good as Onomah, Chalobah or Reed. However based on the inconsistent performances of these three, he should be back in the starting eleven as soon as he is fit!
Seri has been one of our best players so far - but let's see how he performs when we move into colder weather...
Quote from: Jim© on October 08, 2021, 12:45:46 PM
Quote from: MJG on October 08, 2021, 10:47:07 AM
Well he started in the team and then lost his place and now finds himself behind
Reed
Seri
Chalobah
Onomah
To go from playing well to being well down the pecking order can you blame him?
He was injured soon after his first squad appearances, hence the reason he's not been in and around the team.
I'd not say he's quite as good as Onomah, Chalobah, Reed, Seri so if we lost him can't see it being the worst thing ever, though always annoying to lose a first squad member who has been with the club for so long.
Don't know how you can make that judgement given how little we've seen of him. But knowing how unpredictable Onomah and Chalobah in particular can be, I'd be disappointed if he's not capable of developing into serious competition for a midfield slot.
I wonder what Jay Stansfield is thinking now. :022:
Quote from: Twig on October 08, 2021, 02:50:16 PM
Quote from: Jim© on October 08, 2021, 12:45:46 PM
Quote from: MJG on October 08, 2021, 10:47:07 AM
Well he started in the team and then lost his place and now finds himself behind
Reed
Seri
Chalobah
Onomah
To go from playing well to being well down the pecking order can you blame him?
He was injured soon after his first squad appearances, hence the reason he's not been in and around the team.
I'd not say he's quite as good as Onomah, Chalobah, Reed, Seri so if we lost him can't see it being the worst thing ever, though always annoying to lose a first squad member who has been with the club for so long.
Don't know how you can make that judgement given how little we've seen of him. But knowing how unpredictable Onomah and Chalobah in particular can be, I'd be disappointed if he's not capable of developing into serious competition for a midfield slot.
I've watched him enough to have an opinion. He's nowhere near Onomah or Reed in truth and way behind Seri.
Quote from: Montague on October 08, 2021, 01:14:01 PM
Quote from: filham on October 08, 2021, 10:01:41 AM
Quote from: Riversider on October 08, 2021, 09:01:13 AM
Has turned down the offer of a new contract !
Makes you wonder why we bother ?
Next up Fabio Carvalho on Jan 1st.
It certainly does, I would like to see an independent report comparing the Brentford non academy set up to our arrangement where we seem to be producing players for other clubs.
The Academy system was set up to produce home grown players for the EFL / PL and as such each club receives £ an amount from the EFL / PL towards funding the running of the Academy based on the category rating of that Academy - Every club that has an Academy is producing players for the EFL / PL and the majority of players will move clubs at U16 (when not offered scholarships at incumbent club) or U18 when Pro contracts come into play (as the route to U23 / first team is a narrow pathway for a premiership / high championship club - or they just don't like playing for that club)
If the club manages to produce an exceptional talent then it's really up to the club to offer a contract / playing pathway to the player that makes it difficult for the player to refuse.
The only way this will change is a revamp of the scholarship / academy process whereby both parties confirm commitment for XXX amount of years after the scholarship period (ie, player can't leave at 18 but the club can't bin them off without a professional contract either)
Would be equally interesting to see the amount of players that don't get offered contracts at U18 (and leave the club / football) as opposed to those that refuse to sign contracts at U18 (and leave for other 'bigger' clubs)
Thank you albeit a bit complicated I think I grasped it . Good information.
I've seen too little to know how good he is. I would say that we aren't utilising the loan market as well as we could to give young players experience at a higher level, Francois could've gone on loan to a League One club or Championship club and come back a better player. Same goes for Matt O'Riley who is doing very well in League One.
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on October 08, 2021, 04:25:17 PM
I've seen too little to know how good he is. I would say that we aren't utilising the loan market as well as we could to give young players experience at a higher level, Francois could've gone on loan to a League One club or Championship club and come back a better player. Same goes for Matt O'Riley who is doing very well in League One.
If Tyrese gets his agent to give Tony Khan a ring to say "Tyrese will sign a five year deal at TK's current wage valuation, if he goes on loan Wycombe for the next half of this season and you promise to send him on other loans until he is ready to be a regular FFC player", then I'll bet TK will get Tyrese to Wycombe real fast. Conclusion, Tyrese can get whatever he wants provided he'll sign at the wages offered, and we shouldn't loan him if he wants to leave.
Quote from: grandad on October 08, 2021, 10:34:36 AM
I wonder how much our academy costs to run against what we get in sell on fees.
I can't imagine it's a huge mind-blowing sum... we got 12m for pat Roberts, 20m? For Ryan Sessegnon.. 2m for harvey elliot.. that's not including whether we sold Cayley woodrow, Emerson hyndman (think we probably lost him on a free) and moussa dembele 2nd.. on top of that we got promotion with bettinelli in goal, then with rodak in goal, sold smalling for 12m.
I imagine the academy run well (which I think it is) does pretty well by itself and I imagine there's more to come if it stays on same trajectory as both youth sides are currently in pole position in their leagues...
Young players rarely leave to go on and do well if they chase a "bigger club" or "opportunity".. there are fewer better places to be as an academy or youth player in this country as things stand not only for the education you get coming through the ranks but the proven route to first team football.
Which clubs do it better?
Drameh went to Leeds, djed spence- boro, elijah- Luton.. even championship clubs tend to take on players who do ok for us but nothing extra..
I have watched him many times before covid,he is a little tough player with lots of energy,downside very small seri is a giant to him.He picks up a lot of injuries misses a lot of games every season which makes me think his size doesn't help.
Francois and Carvalho aka Hyndman and Roberts. Don't want to be at our club? Someone show them the door quickly please, lets not drag this out. Ta Daa..
I think something that seems to go over the head of a lot of people is that financing a youth academy doesn't affect FFP, while selling the youth players does.
We have owners that constantly spend to the brink of what we are allowed to spend, they can afford financing the academy even if it doesn't run at a profit (but I am fairly sure it does).
Quote from: JEEVES on October 09, 2021, 11:56:14 PM
Francois and Carvalho aka Hyndman and Roberts. Don't want to be at our club? Someone show them the door quickly please, lets not drag this out. Ta Daa..
shouldn't the question be asked why that don't want to be here?
Quote from: JEEVES on October 09, 2021, 11:56:14 PM
Francois and Carvalho aka Hyndman and Roberts. Don't want to be at our club? Someone show them the door quickly please, lets not drag this out. Ta Daa..
Err you want to kick out our young talent. I bet you'll then be first in line to argue there's no point in an academy!
Seriously, can you blame young lads for looking at what contracts and which clubs are open to them? The career of a professional footballer is short and injury can make it even shorter. If one of them was your lad wouldn't you want the best for him? Yes, they sometimes make a bad choice and yes their heads are sometimes turned by the money when they would be wise to consider other factors. But as long as we get a good transfer fee (if they decide to move on) then I don't begrudge them the time to consider their options.
If you have made the slog through football from whatever young age you started (so you have done 10+ years of traing everyweek etc) and you get a sniff of playing in the first team of a club in any of the top 4 divisions you are going to want it so much
If you are palying for a club in top 2 divisions but not getting a sniff then firstly your game isnt improving and secondly you want to play your next 10 years in front of crowds bigger than they get for resrve matches at Motspur
There is a load of former Fulham academy players that didn't get a sniff at the first team playing in the championship right now. Was happy to see Adebayo popping up scoring for Luton, recall him being a CB at youth level wasn't he? Rob Atkinson starting at Bristol City was also a nice surprise. The quality is clearly there for the academy players to be able to step up, it is just that the transition has been hard to accomplish with a few exceptions.
