This much is obvious.
We have one way of playing and no matter what we stick to it.
Other teams have rumbled it and found a way to stop us.
We've seen that in each of the last 5, or more games.
He needs to wake up and be a bit more flexible in approach. Plus in january we need a quality central midfielder with a bit of physical size and prescence.
It doesn't help that wilson, tete, kebano and seri all decided to have stinkers, robinson not far behind. And tosin is a very poor defender, the goal and other chances clearly down to his vey poor play. In fact i said when hector was dropped silva had made a massive management error and so, in my opinion, it has undoubtedly proved. Silva has untouchable favourites, and it is hurting us. Third rate management.
Finally we used to move the ball quicker and try to hit the early run or use the overlap. Now the players are hanging on to it like school kids.
This is also the manager's fault for not reading them the riot act.
Despite that i like silva, but will soon change my mind if he continues to sleepwalk.
I said as much in the match thread at half time. Other teams have figured out Fulham.
under parker you had to press high up the pitch , under silva you park the bus and we have no ideas
I was with up until you started slating Tosin?
Fact is we had a great start, we've now been sussed and need to rotate with our amazing squad and starting winning by a goal or two
Not going to allow posts that offer no debate and simply denounce the OP. I've removed these posts. Threads are there to be debated.
Quote from: FFCBadger on December 20, 2021, 10:20:46 PM
I was with up until you started slating Tosin?
Fact is we had a great start, we've now been sussed and need to rotate with our amazing squad and starting winning by a goal or two
That's easier said than done I'm afraid.
Well we did switch to a different set up when Robinson came off so it's wrong to say we only have one way. It was too slow tonight but Silva has also presided over some thrilling football so it seems unreasonable to suggest he's the culprit. Robinson was far, far worse than the others you mention so I don't agree with your assessment of our Wworst performer" pecking order. I cannot agree that Tosin was the only one to blame for the goal, Seri should clearly have got a strong challenge in. I've never seen evidence of "untouchables" either, Silva certainly gives his selections a fair crack but he's not afraid to change, witness Rodak replacing Gazza.
Quote from: Twig on December 20, 2021, 10:24:21 PM
Well we did switch to a different set up when Robinson came off so it's wrong to say we only have one way. It was too slow tonight but Silva has also presided over some thrilling football so it seems unreasonable to suggest he's the culprit. Robinson was far, far worse than the others you mention so I don't agree with your assessment of our Wworst performer" pecking order. I cannot agree that Tosin was the only one to blame for the goal, Seri should clearly have got a strong challenge in. I've never seen evidence of "untouchables" either, Silva certainly gives his selections a fair crack but he's not afraid to change, witness Rodak replacing Gazza.
untouchable are tosin and wilson.
regarding changing with 20 minutes to go I accept that did happen and we nearly performed a bit better as a result but I was talking about the generality. we have been sussed and we need to be able to be way more flexible.
The manager is the culprrit for a while because he has not adapted and when he brought tosin straight back he displayed a massive error of judgment in how to manage people, meaning the whole squad. they will see Hector did Ok we were winning and suddenly is straight out of contention. well when he is needed next he will be hardly motivated and theothers will see that too.
Tom needed to play more central tonight and way deeper. silva left him far too advanced and as a result had minimal impact and looked dispirited as the players failed to use him. this is the manager's fault because it has been happening way too often.
when we lost to coventry he seemed to wake up, i hope this is the required kick up the rear end.
Robinson and Tete had absolute shockers when we were in possession. But the bigger issue is it looked like Parkerball. Wingers isolated against two defenders, no movement at all, useless possession and then wasteful when we created one big chance. I'm really surprised Bryan wasn't brought on for Antonee to provide early service from the left.
Quote from: ALG01 on December 20, 2021, 10:30:24 PM
untouchable are tosin and wilson.
Why not Mitrovic, Ream, Kebano or Reed? All have been selected every game they've been fit for weeks and weeks.
Final reminder tonight to debate topics and not to target each other, otherwise yellow cards will have to be issued.
If Silva is the worst member of our squad and we are top of the championship, I look forward to another half a season of it continuing in the same vein
Quote from: Arthur on December 20, 2021, 11:06:54 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on December 20, 2021, 10:30:24 PM
untouchable are tosin and wilson.
Why not Mitrovic, Ream, Kebano or Reed? All have been selected every game they've been fit for weeks and weeks.
because by and large they have been our better perfomers week in week out. but if they have a run of poor form, give somebody else a chance, nobody should ever be untouchable.
Quote from: Milo on December 20, 2021, 10:22:41 PM
Not going to allow posts that offer no debate and simply denounce the OP. I've removed these posts. Threads are there to be debated.
I never saw those responses but can guess the style of nonsense that sometimes happens and I thank you for stepping in.
Quote from: ALG01 on December 20, 2021, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: Arthur on December 20, 2021, 11:06:54 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on December 20, 2021, 10:30:24 PM
untouchable are tosin and wilson.
Why not Mitrovic, Ream, Kebano or Reed? All have been selected every game they've been fit for weeks and weeks.
because by and large they have been our better perfomers week in week out. but if they have a run of poor form, give somebody else a chance, nobody should ever be untouchable.
But it's a matter of opinion who has performed well and who hasn't in our winless streak. You think it's Tosin and Wilson. I would add several others - including Mitrovic, who, in my opinion, has spent far too much time arguing with the referee to the detriment of his focusing on getting into goalscoring positions.
So what you appear to be saying is that when Silva brings a player
you like back into the side, that's okay, but when he restores someone you don't fancy to the starting XI, that's bad man-management.
Might there be a weakness somewhere in your argument, I wonder?
Quote from: Arthur on December 21, 2021, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: ALG01 on December 20, 2021, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: Arthur on December 20, 2021, 11:06:54 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on December 20, 2021, 10:30:24 PM
untouchable are tosin and wilson.
Why not Mitrovic, Ream, Kebano or Reed? All have been selected every game they've been fit for weeks and weeks.
because by and large they have been our better perfomers week in week out. but if they have a run of poor form, give somebody else a chance, nobody should ever be untouchable.
But it's a matter of opinion who has performed well and who hasn't in our winless streak. You think it's Tosin and Wilson. I would add several others - including Mitrovic, who, in my opinion, has spent far too much time arguing with the referee to the detriment of his focusing on getting into goalscoring positions.
So what you appear to be saying is that when Silva brings a player you like back into the side, that's okay, but when he restores someone you don't fancy to the starting XI, that's bad man-management.
Might there be a weakness somewhere in your argument, I wonder?
Of course performance is a matter of opinion and I absolutely did not say if he brings back a player I like that is OK. In fact it is the absolutel opposite of what i have said. In fact tosin is a case in point. I like him, he is better than hector and would notmally start first BUT hector was in the team because tosin was sent off, he took his chance and the team was playing well and winning, hector was IMO doing OK, well enough not to merit being dropped at that point..and in that case Tosin just had to wait for his chance to get back in the side.
I agree with you, i think Mitro had been way off his best for a few games and probaly could have done with a proverbial 'rest' on the bench to remind him he is not untouchable.
There is no weakness or inconsistency in my argument. What silva did was poor man mangement because he told the support players they are just that and no matter how good they may perform it will never be good enough and they will never have a chance of a proper run in the team. And our drop in form was coincident with tosin's return. Now I know illness was the given reason for poor form at first but poor management does not help inspire the troops.
I like silva in general but I have never had the feeling our team were or are as good as they hype and neither is he. when we had toigs/keegan/adams, in their respective divisions I had no doubt we would walk to promotion and we would show our class throughout. I do not have that feeling this time. These ;ast few games have shown he is not IMO flexible enough in his approach.
Last night was a bad example of his approach. He should modify knowing a team like them would close the spaces and hit us on the break, all i saw was an unchanging approach when faced with a new obstacle. A bit more flexible would be an advantage if we are too properly succeed.
You can lead a horse to water but you can´t make it drink. Silva can coach his players 24/7 but it is entirely up to the players to perform. They are the ones on the pitch. Something has happened to them since the Norovirus outbreak following on from when a number of them became Covid infected. Maybe they are having long term fitness & stamina problems. One example is Kebano. He was virtually unplayable, now he is not playable.
Quote from: ALG01 on December 21, 2021, 12:29:35 PM
Quote from: Arthur on December 21, 2021, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: ALG01 on December 20, 2021, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: Arthur on December 20, 2021, 11:06:54 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on December 20, 2021, 10:30:24 PM
untouchable are tosin and wilson.
Why not Mitrovic, Ream, Kebano or Reed? All have been selected every game they've been fit for weeks and weeks.
because by and large they have been our better perfomers week in week out. but if they have a run of poor form, give somebody else a chance, nobody should ever be untouchable.
But it's a matter of opinion who has performed well and who hasn't in our winless streak. You think it's Tosin and Wilson. I would add several others - including Mitrovic, who, in my opinion, has spent far too much time arguing with the referee to the detriment of his focusing on getting into goalscoring positions.
So what you appear to be saying is that when Silva brings a player you like back into the side, that's okay, but when he restores someone you don't fancy to the starting XI, that's bad man-management.
Might there be a weakness somewhere in your argument, I wonder?
Of course performance is a matter of opinion and I absolutely did not say if he brings back a player I like that is OK. In fact it is the absolutel opposite of what i have said. In fact tosin is a case in point. I like him, he is better than hector and would notmally start first BUT hector was in the team because tosin was sent off, he took his chance and the team was playing well and winning, hector was IMO doing OK, well enough not to merit being dropped at that point..and in that case Tosin just had to wait for his chance to get back in the side.
I agree with you, i think Mitro had been way off his best for a few games and probaly could have done with a proverbial 'rest' on the bench to remind him he is not untouchable.
There is no weakness or inconsistency in my argument. What silva did was poor man mangement because he told the support players they are just that and no matter how good they may perform it will never be good enough and they will never have a chance of a proper run in the team. And our drop in form was coincident with tosin's return. Now I know illness was the given reason for poor form at first but poor management does not help inspire the troops.
I like silva in general but I have never had the feeling our team were or are as good as they hype and neither is he. when we had toigs/keegan/adams, in their respective divisions I had no doubt we would walk to promotion and we would show our class throughout. I do not have that feeling this time. These ;ast few games have shown he is not IMO flexible enough in his approach.
Last night was a bad example of his approach. He should modify knowing a team like them would close the spaces and hit us on the break, all i saw was an unchanging approach when faced with a new obstacle. A bit more flexible would be an advantage if we are too properly succeed.
Welcome to being a supporter of a club in the Championship, with Championship players and a Championship manager. Believe that hype!
That said the Championship quality Fulham supporters can rejoice in their Championship club being in first place at the moment. Happy, happy Christmas to all you over hyped Championship quality people!
Agree with the OP but am putting the whole blame on Silva. Teams are employing tactics that are stopping us creating chances and scoring goals but Silva is not responding with changes to our methods. Our players continue to hit their heads against brick walls.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on December 21, 2021, 12:58:25 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on December 21, 2021, 12:29:35 PM
Quote from: Arthur on December 21, 2021, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: ALG01 on December 20, 2021, 11:09:54 PM
Quote from: Arthur on December 20, 2021, 11:06:54 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on December 20, 2021, 10:30:24 PM
untouchable are tosin and wilson.
Why not Mitrovic, Ream, Kebano or Reed? All have been selected every game they've been fit for weeks and weeks.
because by and large they have been our better perfomers week in week out. but if they have a run of poor form, give somebody else a chance, nobody should ever be untouchable.
But it's a matter of opinion who has performed well and who hasn't in our winless streak. You think it's Tosin and Wilson. I would add several others - including Mitrovic, who, in my opinion, has spent far too much time arguing with the referee to the detriment of his focusing on getting into goalscoring positions.
So what you appear to be saying is that when Silva brings a player you like back into the side, that's okay, but when he restores someone you don't fancy to the starting XI, that's bad man-management.
Might there be a weakness somewhere in your argument, I wonder?
Of course performance is a matter of opinion and I absolutely did not say if he brings back a player I like that is OK. In fact it is the absolutel opposite of what i have said. In fact tosin is a case in point. I like him, he is better than hector and would notmally start first BUT hector was in the team because tosin was sent off, he took his chance and the team was playing well and winning, hector was IMO doing OK, well enough not to merit being dropped at that point..and in that case Tosin just had to wait for his chance to get back in the side.
I agree with you, i think Mitro had been way off his best for a few games and probaly could have done with a proverbial 'rest' on the bench to remind him he is not untouchable.
There is no weakness or inconsistency in my argument. What silva did was poor man mangement because he told the support players they are just that and no matter how good they may perform it will never be good enough and they will never have a chance of a proper run in the team. And our drop in form was coincident with tosin's return. Now I know illness was the given reason for poor form at first but poor management does not help inspire the troops.
I like silva in general but I have never had the feeling our team were or are as good as they hype and neither is he. when we had toigs/keegan/adams, in their respective divisions I had no doubt we would walk to promotion and we would show our class throughout. I do not have that feeling this time. These ;ast few games have shown he is not IMO flexible enough in his approach.
Last night was a bad example of his approach. He should modify knowing a team like them would close the spaces and hit us on the break, all i saw was an unchanging approach when faced with a new obstacle. A bit more flexible would be an advantage if we are too properly succeed.
Welcome to being a supporter of a club in the Championship, with Championship players and a Championship manager. Believe that hype!
That said the Championship quality Fulham supporters can rejoice in their Championship club being in first place at the moment. Happy, happy Christmas to all you over hyped Championship quality people!
It's christmas the season of goodwill so I will take this as an amusing post rather than tempting me to retort.
However, i keep reading how good we are but whilst i love the attacking football I think we are less than the championship side we had with tigana, or, I have to say slav whi IMO was a supperior manager but with way less management support. That is my opinion. And by the way when we were in the lowest division and we were 2ish thousand in the ground, I coped. This is way better than that but I think we are yet to be as good as we can be and I am happy at being forst but not at taking 4 points from 5 games.
merry Christmas to you
Also "support players" already know they are "support players". They especially know this when a first choice player is picked to play over them when the first choice player is eligible and fit to play again.
Quote from: Lyle from Hangeland on December 21, 2021, 01:11:28 PM
Also "support players" already know they are "support players". They especially know this when a first choice player is picked to play over them when the first choice player is eligible and fit to play again.
#That is not a good way to manage people, even 'support players.'
if they do well they need to be given a chance not dropped otherwise they become demoralised and when needed again will not bother because what then is the point.
i really did not think this basic day 1 firs rule of simple management woiuld be quite so difficult for some people to get their heads around. If they are hopeless then that is one thing nbut when they perfom it is quoite another and hector perfromed well enough to keep his place AND we were then winning in style.
Quote from: ALG01 on December 21, 2021, 12:29:35 PM
Quote from: Arthur on December 21, 2021, 11:28:28 AM
So what you appear to be saying is that when Silva brings a player you like back into the side, that's okay, but when he restores someone you don't fancy to the starting XI, that's bad man-management.
Of course performance is a matter of opinion and I absolutely did not say if he brings back a player I like that is OK. In fact it is the absolutel opposite of what i have said. In fact tosin is a case in point. I like him, he is better than hector and would notmally start first BUT hector was in the team because tosin was sent off, he took his chance and the team was playing well and winning, hector was IMO doing OK, well enough not to merit being dropped at that point..and in that case Tosin just had to wait for his chance to get back in the side.
Thank you for your reply.
I am glad you like Tosin, per se. My remark, however, is referring to your not liking that he was brought back into the starting XI at Hector's expense. (But that was obvious to you already, I'm sure.) As an opinion, to decry Tosin's return is fine, but it's not evidence of his being 'untouchable'.
Quote from: ALG01 on December 21, 2021, 12:29:35 PM
There is no weakness or inconsistency in my argument. What silva did was poor man mangement because he told the support players they are just that and no matter how good they may perform it will never be good enough and they will never have a chance of a proper run in the team.
As you have no idea what Silva has actually said to the players, I assume you mean you think his restoring Tosin to the side has conveyed this message. Yet again, however, it's only your opinion this was the wrong decision.
Before his sending off, Tosin was also playing well in a winning team. Of Hector's three matches, one was against a team reduced to ten men for an hour and the others were against the two teams with the worst records in the Championship - Barnsley and Peterborough. If Silva took into consideration that Tosin is, as you say, better than Hector, our manager may have decided Hector's 'okay' performances against weak opponents were not enough to merit keeping Tosin from returning. Nothing unreasonable in such thinking, even if one thinks differently. To be of the opinion this was poor management is your prerogative, but is it's not evidence of Silva having told the 'support' players (whomever they are) that
'no matter how good they perform, it will never be good enough'.
In the friendliest way possible, may I suggest that, rather than think I am finding it 'so difficult to get my head around' what Silva is not doing right (for I am one of those at whom your remark is aimed), you might care to take a moment to consider that Silva may not be thinking in exactly the way you think he is.
Quote from: Arthur on December 21, 2021, 07:46:51 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on December 21, 2021, 12:29:35 PM
Quote from: Arthur on December 21, 2021, 11:28:28 AM
So what you appear to be saying is that when Silva brings a player you like back into the side, that's okay, but when he restores someone you don't fancy to the starting XI, that's bad man-management.
Of course performance is a matter of opinion and I absolutely did not say if he brings back a player I like that is OK. In fact it is the absolutel opposite of what i have said. In fact tosin is a case in point. I like him, he is better than hector and would notmally start first BUT hector was in the team because tosin was sent off, he took his chance and the team was playing well and winning, hector was IMO doing OK, well enough not to merit being dropped at that point..and in that case Tosin just had to wait for his chance to get back in the side.
Thank you for your reply.
I am glad you like Tosin, per se. My remark, however, is referring to your not liking that he was brought back into the starting XI at Hector's expense. (But that was obvious to you already, I'm sure.) As an opinion, to decry Tosin's return is fine, but it's not evidence of his being 'untouchable'.
Quote from: ALG01 on December 21, 2021, 12:29:35 PM
There is no weakness or inconsistency in my argument. What silva did was poor man mangement because he told the support players they are just that and no matter how good they may perform it will never be good enough and they will never have a chance of a proper run in the team.
As you have no idea what Silva has actually said to the players, I assume you mean you think his restoring Tosin to the side has conveyed this message. Yet again, however, it's only your opinion this was the wrong decision.
Before his sending off, Tosin was also playing well in a winning team. Of Hector's three matches, one was against a team reduced to ten men for an hour and the others were against the two teams with the worst records in the Championship - Barnsley and Peterborough. If Silva took into consideration that Tosin is, as you say, better than Hector, our manager may have decided Hector's 'okay' performances against weak opponents were not enough to merit keeping Tosin from returning. Nothing unreasonable in such thinking, even if one thinks differently. To be of the opinion this was poor management is your prerogative, but is it's not evidence of Silva having told the 'support' players (whomever they are) that 'no matter how good they perform, it will never be good enough'.
In the friendliest way possible, may I suggest that, rather than think I am finding it 'so difficult to get my head around' what Silva is not doing right (for I am one of those at whom your remark is aimed), you might care to take a moment to consider that Silva may not be thinking in exactly the way you think he is.
Your kidding?
You are attempting to forensically disect my opinion and pick at each word.
Bringing tosin back was rank bad management, a first year management student wouldn't need to be taught that.
In afriendly way i think this discusion is now circular. So i wish you compliments of the season, look forward to disecting a fine victory in our next outing and see if there is a bit of something more positive for us to chew over.
:wine:
Nonsense OP, hitting a rough patch which happens to every team in this tough league but we will be back - our performances at the start of the season were the best I had seen from a Fulham team in a long while
Quote from: Denver Fulham on December 20, 2021, 10:43:08 PM
Robinson and Tete had absolute shockers when we were in possession. But the bigger issue is it looked like Parkerball. Wingers isolated against two defenders, no movement at all, useless possession and then wasteful when we created one big chance. I'm really surprised Bryan wasn't brought on for Antonee to provide early service from the left.
I was thinking about the umbrella possession system we all criticized last season under Parker. Looked the same. There was no penetration, everyone was static, and almost nothing happened in the middle of the pitch separating Mitro and the CB's in possession. It was like there was no central midfield at all.
Complacency has set in. If I was Silva, half the starting 11 would be out for the next match. There has been 1 goal in open play over the last 5 matches which is pathetic for a team aspiring for promotion. The current attacking options absent Mitro have been given a fair shake and it is not good enough. Time to give others a chance. To me, Neeskens, Fabio, JMS, AR, and Tete hit the bench. BDR, Muniz, JB, TC, and Dennis come in. Let Harry Wilson know you expect better or he will be next off.
Silva's managerial chops are on trial now. This team needs a kick start. It is on him to get it going.
Quote from: @jolslover on December 21, 2021, 11:28:36 PM
Nonsense OP, hitting a rough patch which happens to every team in this tough league but we will be back - our performances at the start of the season were the best I had seen from a Fulham team in a long while
Well other than 'Nonsense OP' I agree with you. My post is an observation that says essentially we are rumbled and need to adapt our play smewhat. In combination a number of kkey players are off form. we are also playing the ball too slow, players hanging on to it too long and not using the simple pass and overlap that were all principle featiures of our brilliant start.
The holding of the ball too long and not hitting the runners early is clearly a managerial thing. The attempt to overload down the wings is down to the manager and his very poor decison to change a winning side as discussed is also his fault. He is a member of the squad and juyst as we are critical of players that are not at their best, we have to be critical of him.
To say my post was nonsense is clearly out of step with the majority on the MB judging by the number of similar threads and comments. The only major alternate views seem to have come from people that always disagreee with me as a matter of proinciple without actually addressing my points (One or two exceptions are excluded).
It's christmas and i forgive you... hope we can discuss the finer points of winning come boxing day!
When Silva became our manager i checked into his previous club's forums and there was an opinion that he gets you so far and then the performace goes over acliff and he can't respond. I hope this isn't the case here as I really liked our style of play and our performances up until now.
We're top of the league, and despite the poor run have only really had one poor performance against Sheffield United. Even then, we were the width of the crossbar away from a draw. Perspective.
Quote from: ALG01 on December 20, 2021, 10:01:55 PM
We have one way of playing and no matter what we stick to it.
Despite that i like silva, but will soon change my mind if he continues to sleepwalk.
I'm not ready to say Silva is the worst squad member, because I do like him, BUT, a good team (and manager) adapts and does not simply resort to the same old same old when the opponent is having success against.
Poor shows v SHU were Robinson, Kebano, Carvalho (what's all the hype about?), Rodak (should have done better on goal scored), and general midfield play. Might be time to make some changes with that depth everyone in this forum seems to think FFC has. I wouldn't mind seeing some others get a start. And I say that whilst I do like some of these players who have had poor shows recently.
Quote from: MartyFFC on December 22, 2021, 05:06:45 PM
We're top of the league, and despite the poor run have only really had one poor performance against Sheffield United. Even then, we were the width of the crossbar away from a draw. Perspective.
Nice having some perspective, agreed, but I do think FFC has had more than just one poor show v SHU. Have had big opportunity to put some space between top two and rest of the field. Sadly let slip away.....
We need to regroup with some new additions in January, the way things are going we might not even finish in the play offs. If we play 1 dimensional football (exciting as it has been most of the first half of the season), many more teams will stop us from winning, we need a Plan B and Plan C from our coach.
Quote from: WindyCity on December 22, 2021, 05:27:24 PM
Quote from: MartyFFC on December 22, 2021, 05:06:45 PM
We're top of the league, and despite the poor run have only really had one poor performance against Sheffield United. Even then, we were the width of the crossbar away from a draw. Perspective.
Nice having some perspective, agreed, but I do think FFC has had more than just one poor show v SHU. Have had big opportunity to put some space between top two and rest of the field. Sadly let slip away.....
Yeah looking at the season as a whole, I'd say you could add Coventry and possibly Blackpool. Two or three poor performances out of 23 doesn't cause me to question Silva though
You may have a change of mind if you reconsider the slow build ups and pedestrian movement of the players as the other teams have sussed us out, and Silva does not have the ability to respond to counter. So Fulham who lacked urgency , creativity and leadership faltered against Sheffield despite sending cavalry on without any horses, and despite being 1 0 down for almost all the match had no kitchen sink to throw at a well organised defence who won their own personal battles, and watched in astonishment whilst Fulham wasted the best part of half an hour passing across their own penalty area, backwards sideways and clueless, and when we did cross the halfway line Fulham decided to pass back towards their own penalty area, no wonder we hardly had a shot on target.
Historically we've usually been better in the second half of the season..... Yes, we couldn't break down Sheff Utd - but we only needed to take our one chance, and we didn't - I'm putting this down to a blip....true, we need to mix it up more, true, we shouldn't be afraid to drop player's - but most of us thought the starting 11, was our best 11.... I'm not overly concerned.... we'll still get promoted - onwards & upwars
I am unsure what the value of calling Silva the worst member of the squad is other than drawing attention to the thread. For starters the claim is without proof, doesn't solve anything even if true, and produces no substantial evidence to back the claim up simply because, at this stage, there isn't any.
Had Adarabioyo not been sent off then Hector would presumably have been, at best, on the bench. A head coach cannot operate in isolation. S/he has their own team of assistants who are all free to vote with their feet. The players conversely have freely signed contracts and get paid regardless. If they want to play regularly then by quite an early age they will know how the system tends to work. Hector is in competition for a place in the team and he will know exactly what is required to overtake the present occupant(s) of the position(s) he covets.
I don't know if there are problems at the Club which have arisen from the current poor run but my best bet is that it is the simple case of the honeymoon period being over and now the relationship between Silva and the Club will either prove itself to be good or not as the case may be. All staff tend to go through this same period or phase of largely indeterminate length but there is nothing in management 101 that covers it. However a book about randomness would tell you that any and all human beings find it a hell of subject to even begin to understand.
I wish you all a very happy Xmas.
I don't want to risk getting into trouble for this but it does need to be said. A lot of threads are becoming nonsensical of late with the amount content that is being removed.
Quote from: ALG01 on December 21, 2021, 10:11:19 PM
Your kidding?
You are attempting to forensically disect my opinion and pick at each word.
Bringing tosin back was rank bad management, a first year management student wouldn't need to be taught that.
In afriendly way i think this discusion is now circular. So i wish you compliments of the season, look forward to disecting a fine victory in our next outing and see if there is a bit of something more positive for us to chew over.
I agree that our discussion of your opinion of Silva's management has run its course in this thread and I echo your hope for an upturn in form.
I shall, however, comment upon your incredulity that I should take your words to mean what they say. If I attempt to explain why I think your interpretation has not drawn a reasonable conclusion, why are you upset by the depth of my analysis? The time I spend is showing you the respect that wouldn't be evident if I were simply to post along the lines of 'You're talking rubbish again, ALGO'. (Earlier in this thread, you thanked the moderator who deleted such responses.)
You have no less opportunity to challenge my interpretations and the opinions I draw from them as I have yours. This is a debating forum and I try to debate with logical and valid arguments.
Quote from: toshes mate on December 23, 2021, 08:10:30 AM
I am unsure what the value of calling Silva the worst member of the squad is other than drawing attention to the thread. For starters the claim is without proof, doesn't solve anything even if true, and produces no substantial evidence to back the claim up simply because, at this stage, there isn't any.
Had Adarabioyo not been sent off then Hector would presumably have been, at best, on the bench. A head coach cannot operate in isolation. S/he has their own team of assistants who are all free to vote with their feet. The players conversely have freely signed contracts and get paid regardless. If they want to play regularly then by quite an early age they will know how the system tends to work. Hector is in competition for a place in the team and he will know exactly what is required to overtake the present occupant(s) of the position(s) he covets.
I don't know if there are problems at the Club which have arisen from the current poor run but my best bet is that it is the simple case of the honeymoon period being over and now the relationship between Silva and the Club will either prove itself to be good or not as the case may be. All staff tend to go through this same period or phase of largely indeterminate length but there is nothing in management 101 that covers it. However a book about randomness would tell you that any and all human beings find it a hell of subject to even begin to understand.
I wish you all a very happy Xmas.
thank you for your usual style of response and misquote and presumably intentional misreading/understanding of what i said. I intentionally said Silva was currently the worst perfomer despite me actully liking him. Current worst, not overall worst, as you suggest. he needs to doi much bettter, and he is surely capable of much better.
He has has demonstatably not adapted our tactics to accomdate the fact teams are now all setting up to stop up us. this was apparent in very many recent games Luton and sheffield united being obvious examples when they both adopted the same approach to denying our wide men space, the key to all that has been good.
The issue about tosin's return is entirely to do with management of people and how it affects the whole group. Silva made a massive error of management judgement. Tosin IMO is the better player but that change then will have resonated through the squad. Hector was doing OK and we were playing well but he was instantly dropped. This is rank bad management for team spirit because you need the whole squad not just the first 11 or 12 and he slapped the rest of the squad in the face with that. It is basic stuff.
I wish you a happy christmas and hope on boxing day we can move on to discuss how we came to win so handsomely. :wine:
Quote from: Arthur on December 23, 2021, 12:07:53 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on December 21, 2021, 10:11:19 PM
Your kidding?
You are attempting to forensically disect my opinion and pick at each word.
Bringing tosin back was rank bad management, a first year management student wouldn't need to be taught that.
In afriendly way i think this discusion is now circular. So i wish you compliments of the season, look forward to disecting a fine victory in our next outing and see if there is a bit of something more positive for us to chew over.
I agree that our discussion of your opinion of Silva's management has run its course in this thread and I echo your hope for an upturn in form.
I shall, however, comment upon your incredulity that I should take your words to mean what they say. If I attempt to explain why I think your interpretation has not drawn a reasonable conclusion, why are you upset by the depth of my analysis? The time I spend is showing you the respect that wouldn't be evident if I were simply to post along the lines of 'You're talking rubbish again, ALGO'. (Earlier in this thread, you thanked the moderator who deleted such responses.)
You have no less opportunity to challenge my interpretations and the opinions I draw from them as I have yours. This is a debating forum and I try to debate with logical and valid arguments.
I take you comments on board in the spirit they are offered. I am not sure with my poetic style it is appropriate to attempt to disect my comments so forensoically. All I am saying is the manager should be doing better than this and I do think he is responsible in large measure for recent poor perfomances and bringing tosin back , whether he is the better player or not when he did was rank bad management.... but thta does not get it off my chest quite so well
we all want the same
have a brilliant christmas and I will look forward to further debate, I do enjoy it, honest.
Quote from: MartyFFC on December 22, 2021, 05:06:45 PM
We're top of the league, and despite the poor run have only really had one poor performance against Sheffield United. Even then, we were the width of the crossbar away from a draw. Perspective.
Actually recently we have had many sub standard perormances. At Luton we were very poor taking the lead against the run of play and only switching on after the eqiualiser but never looked much like getting the winner. Bournemouth, who we dominated, were comfortably containing us and I never thought we were likely to win (save for the last 7 minutes or so). derby was poor and even one or two of our wins were a bit lack lustre so its more than one or two odd games. Four drws and a defeat is a wake up call that we need to modify tactics and also one or two players look like they can do with a kick up the you know where. That's how I see it anyway.
This thread is so toxic. We're literally top of the league 😂
Quote from: ffcthereligion on December 23, 2021, 12:28:12 PM
This thread is so toxic. We're literally top of the league 😂
Yeah but if you listen to all the part timers on the forum who've had to wait 11 games for a loss to re-appear and moan (this isn't aimed at the OP before mods or ALG01 himself think it is), we're actually rubbish, won't finish in the top 6 and will end up mid table
Quote from: ALG01 on December 23, 2021, 12:10:30 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on December 23, 2021, 08:10:30 AM
I am unsure what the value of calling Silva the worst member of the squad is other than drawing attention to the thread. For starters the claim is without proof, doesn't solve anything even if true, and produces no substantial evidence to back the claim up simply because, at this stage, there isn't any.
Had Adarabioyo not been sent off then Hector would presumably have been, at best, on the bench. A head coach cannot operate in isolation. S/he has their own team of assistants who are all free to vote with their feet. The players conversely have freely signed contracts and get paid regardless. If they want to play regularly then by quite an early age they will know how the system tends to work. Hector is in competition for a place in the team and he will know exactly what is required to overtake the present occupant(s) of the position(s) he covets.
I don't know if there are problems at the Club which have arisen from the current poor run but my best bet is that it is the simple case of the honeymoon period being over and now the relationship between Silva and the Club will either prove itself to be good or not as the case may be. All staff tend to go through this same period or phase of largely indeterminate length but there is nothing in management 101 that covers it. However a book about randomness would tell you that any and all human beings find it a hell of subject to even begin to understand.
I wish you all a very happy Xmas.
thank you for your usual style of response and misquote and presumably intentional misreading/understanding of what i said. I intentionally said Silva was currently the worst perfomer despite me actully liking him. Current worst, not overall worst, as you suggest. he needs to doi much bettter, and he is surely capable of much better.
He has has demonstatably not adapted our tactics to accomdate the fact teams are now all setting up to stop up us. this was apparent in very many recent games Luton and sheffield united being obvious examples when they both adopted the same approach to denying our wide men space, the key to all that has been good.
The issue about tosin's return is entirely to do with management of people and how it affects the whole group. Silva made a massive error of management judgement. Tosin IMO is the better player but that change then will have resonated through the squad. Hector was doing OK and we were playing well but he was instantly dropped. This is rank bad management for team spirit because you need the whole squad not just the first 11 or 12 and he slapped the rest of the squad in the face with that. It is basic stuff.
I wish you a happy christmas and hope on boxing day we can move on to discuss how we came to win so handsomely. :wine:
Misquote? Apart form the thread title I haven't quoted you at all. I have simply expressed a rather different way at looking at things which avoids applying blame where no blame exists.
Quote from: ffcthereligion on December 23, 2021, 12:28:12 PM
This thread is so toxic. We're literally top of the league 😂
It is not toxic and I am sorry you see it that way. But 4 draws, a loss and not playing well needs to be discussed and I was saying that solva really has to buck his ideas up. it is not just the players. However some people think being critical about anything is moaning or toxic is the real moan and toxic thing 064.gif
happy Christmas :wine:
Silva has shown he can get the best out of the team . Hes not flawless and neither are any of the players ,but the its been afantastic first half of the season really needs to have a think about expectation levels. As for plan B ,well that just for people who dont really get how plan A works .
Quote from: toshes mate on December 23, 2021, 01:38:04 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on December 23, 2021, 12:10:30 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on December 23, 2021, 08:10:30 AM
I am unsure what the value of calling Silva the worst member of the squad is other than drawing attention to the thread. For starters the claim is without proof, doesn't solve anything even if true, and produces no substantial evidence to back the claim up simply because, at this stage, there isn't any.
Had Adarabioyo not been sent off then Hector would presumably have been, at best, on the bench. A head coach cannot operate in isolation. S/he has their own team of assistants who are all free to vote with their feet. The players conversely have freely signed contracts and get paid regardless. If they want to play regularly then by quite an early age they will know how the system tends to work. Hector is in competition for a place in the team and he will know exactly what is required to overtake the present occupant(s) of the position(s) he covets.
I don't know if there are problems at the Club which have arisen from the current poor run but my best bet is that it is the simple case of the honeymoon period being over and now the relationship between Silva and the Club will either prove itself to be good or not as the case may be. All staff tend to go through this same period or phase of largely indeterminate length but there is nothing in management 101 that covers it. However a book about randomness would tell you that any and all human beings find it a hell of subject to even begin to understand.
I wish you all a very happy Xmas.
thank you for your usual style of response and misquote and presumably intentional misreading/understanding of what i said. I intentionally said Silva was currently the worst perfomer despite me actully liking him. Current worst, not overall worst, as you suggest. he needs to doi much bettter, and he is surely capable of much better.
He has has demonstatably not adapted our tactics to accomdate the fact teams are now all setting up to stop up us. this was apparent in very many recent games Luton and sheffield united being obvious examples when they both adopted the same approach to denying our wide men space, the key to all that has been good.
The issue about tosin's return is entirely to do with management of people and how it affects the whole group. Silva made a massive error of management judgement. Tosin IMO is the better player but that change then will have resonated through the squad. Hector was doing OK and we were playing well but he was instantly dropped. This is rank bad management for team spirit because you need the whole squad not just the first 11 or 12 and he slapped the rest of the squad in the face with that. It is basic stuff.
I wish you a happy christmas and hope on boxing day we can move on to discuss how we came to win so handsomely. :wine:
Misquote? Apart form the thread title I haven't quoted you at all. I have simply expressed a rather different way at looking at things which avoids applying blame where no blame exists.
the misquote is he is 'currently' the worst member and you left out the word current. That is the whole point and to say no blame rests with him exists is questionable as he selects the team and sets the tactcs and they have not been modified to accomodate the change way teams are playing against us. Blame absolutely does lay at his door, and I am sure he will get it right but as this has has gone on for a few games it, IMO, needs saying in no uncertain terms.
Quote from: Deeping_white on December 23, 2021, 01:04:39 PM
Quote from: ffcthereligion on December 23, 2021, 12:28:12 PM
This thread is so toxic. We're literally top of the league 😂
Yeah but if you listen to all the part timers on the forum who've had to wait 11 games for a loss to re-appear and moan (this isn't aimed at the OP before mods or ALG01 himself think it is), we're actually rubbish, won't finish in the top 6 and will end up mid table
I agree with you and understand the sentiment.
:wine:
Quote from: MartyFFC on December 22, 2021, 07:42:03 PM
Quote from: WindyCity on December 22, 2021, 05:27:24 PM
Quote from: MartyFFC on December 22, 2021, 05:06:45 PM
We're top of the league, and despite the poor run have only really had one poor performance against Sheffield United. Even then, we were the width of the crossbar away from a draw. Perspective.
Nice having some perspective, agreed, but I do think FFC has had more than just one poor show v SHU. Have had big opportunity to put some space between top two and rest of the field. Sadly let slip away.....
Yeah looking at the season as a whole, I'd say you could add Coventry and possibly Blackpool. Two or three poor performances out of 23 doesn't cause me to question Silva though
I applaud your loyalty to the black and white coolaid. FFC has had quite a handful more of poor performances than just 2 or 3 as you suggest. You're totally discounting poor shows in games that were draws. I know I might be setting a high bar, and, afterall, with half season played FFC is top of table, but poor shows against lesser competition and draws/losses against such is not gonna get us to automatics. Hopefully FFC comes out with a strong start to the second half. I think Silva does have to make some adjustments.
Quote from: WindyCity on December 23, 2021, 04:15:09 PM
Quote from: MartyFFC on December 22, 2021, 07:42:03 PM
Quote from: WindyCity on December 22, 2021, 05:27:24 PM
Quote from: MartyFFC on December 22, 2021, 05:06:45 PM
We're top of the league, and despite the poor run have only really had one poor performance against Sheffield United. Even then, we were the width of the crossbar away from a draw. Perspective.
Nice having some perspective, agreed, but I do think FFC has had more than just one poor show v SHU. Have had big opportunity to put some space between top two and rest of the field. Sadly let slip away.....
Yeah looking at the season as a whole, I'd say you could add Coventry and possibly Blackpool. Two or three poor performances out of 23 doesn't cause me to question Silva though
I applaud your loyalty to the black and white coolaid. FFC has had quite a handful more of poor performances than just 2 or 3 as you suggest. You're totally discounting poor shows in games that were draws. I know I might be setting a high bar, and, afterall, with half season played FFC is top of table, but poor shows against lesser competition and draws/losses against such is not gonna get us to automatics. Hopefully FFC comes out with a strong start to the second half. I think Silva does have to make some adjustments.
Well you've certainly changed your tune then with regards to "setting the bar high" because you were predicting we'd be in a relegation battle at the start of the season.
Quote from: Deeping_white on December 23, 2021, 04:19:26 PM
Quote from: WindyCity on December 23, 2021, 04:15:09 PM
Quote from: MartyFFC on December 22, 2021, 07:42:03 PM
Quote from: WindyCity on December 22, 2021, 05:27:24 PM
Quote from: MartyFFC on December 22, 2021, 05:06:45 PM
We're top of the league, and despite the poor run have only really had one poor performance against Sheffield United. Even then, we were the width of the crossbar away from a draw. Perspective.
Nice having some perspective, agreed, but I do think FFC has had more than just one poor show v SHU. Have had big opportunity to put some space between top two and rest of the field. Sadly let slip away.....
Yeah looking at the season as a whole, I'd say you could add Coventry and possibly Blackpool. Two or three poor performances out of 23 doesn't cause me to question Silva though
I applaud your loyalty to the black and white coolaid. FFC has had quite a handful more of poor performances than just 2 or 3 as you suggest. You're totally discounting poor shows in games that were draws. I know I might be setting a high bar, and, afterall, with half season played FFC is top of table, but poor shows against lesser competition and draws/losses against such is not gonna get us to automatics. Hopefully FFC comes out with a strong start to the second half. I think Silva does have to make some adjustments.
Well you've certainly changed your tune then with regards to "setting the bar high" because you were predicting we'd be in a relegation battle at the start of the season.
Sorry, you're taking things out of context. Yes, I felt FFC could struggle, but I did offer reasoning. Nice stalking, btw. Good work.
Merry Christmas!
It's not really stalking WC, I can remember you saying it too.
This board never learns, it is forever boom or bust, over confidence or blind panic etc.
Quote from: Deeping_white on December 23, 2021, 01:04:39 PM
Quote from: ffcthereligion on December 23, 2021, 12:28:12 PM
This thread is so toxic. We're literally top of the league 😂
Yeah but if you listen to all the part timers on the forum who've had to wait 11 games for a loss to re-appear and moan (this isn't aimed at the OP before mods or ALG01 himself think it is), we're actually rubbish, won't finish in the top 6 and will end up mid table
Some of the full timers on here (regular posters and guys who have supported FFC for over 60 years) would probably agree with you, but I won't!! Think we will still make the play offs but only if we bring in some better quality players i.e. full back (left or right), centre back (yes I know we have a lot already), more physical midfield player and yes I know we have Onomah (lol), winger (left or right) as both of the only 2 recognised players we have, seeem to have gone AWOL recently and most importantly a striker, if Mitro gets injured or decides to give less than 100% and that has happened before we are in real trouble, there is no decent replacement to him in our present squad.
Quote from: davew on December 23, 2021, 07:09:14 PM
Quote from: Deeping_white on December 23, 2021, 01:04:39 PM
Quote from: ffcthereligion on December 23, 2021, 12:28:12 PM
This thread is so toxic. We're literally top of the league 😂
Yeah but if you listen to all the part timers on the forum who've had to wait 11 games for a loss to re-appear and moan (this isn't aimed at the OP before mods or ALG01 himself think it is), we're actually rubbish, won't finish in the top 6 and will end up mid table
Some of the full timers on here (regular posters and guys who have supported FFC for over 60 years) would probably agree with you, but I won't!! Think we will still make the play offs but only if we bring in some better quality players i.e. full back (left or right), centre back (yes I know we have a lot already), more physical midfield player and yes I know we have Onomah (lol), winger (left or right) as both of the only 2 recognised players we have, seeem to have gone AWOL recently and most importantly a striker, if Mitro gets injured or decides to give less than 100% and that has happened before we are in real trouble, there is no decent replacement to him in our present squad.
We're top of the league half way through the season and you geunuinely think we need half a new team just to make the play-offs?
i cannot lock the thread but think we are done.
merry christmas to all
For what it is worth I happen to think we are more likely to go up in the top 2 than not, but less certain that when we had tigs.
Quote from: ALG01 on December 23, 2021, 10:46:08 PM
i cannot lock the thread but think we are done.
merry christmas to all
For what it is worth I happen to think we are more likely to go up in the top 2 than not, but less certain that when we had tigs.
Done xmascheer1
