Just when you thought that the whole business was done to death Marco gives us a game of two halves to salivate upon.How did they fare? I see that both got yellow cards but it seems that if you didn't get one then you were not pulling your weight.
Robinson did well I thought abd Bryan had a shocker.
Robinson coped with Christie better that's for sure. And with Djed Spence next up, it simply has to be Robinson. Need his pace to cancel out Spence.
Bryan struggled for most of the half. It became a physical battle for him which ultimately resulted in the yellow card. He couldn't cope with the Bournemouth wide player and just like the Denis Odoi of old, was playing on a tightrope and always likely to pick up a second yellow. A good substitution by Silva.
Robinson came on and made a difference defensively, without having any of the problems that Joe had. Only the ref knows why he booked him because there was nothing in the incident.
Robinson was so much better than Bryan had been when he came on. Both have their faults, but Robinson's vastly superior pace is a definite advantage
Quote from: Tonywa on April 24, 2022, 10:02:32 AM
Robinson was so much better than Bryan had been when he came on. Both have their faults, but Robinson's vastly superior pace is a definite advantage
It would be wise of FFC I think to bring Larkeche onto the subs bench in at least one of the final three games along with Stansfield.
Funny because from the stands I thought Robinson was crap.
Decision making just awful, wandering into players and losing possession putting us under pressure. Pretty he sure he played the ball straight out of play on at least 3 occasions (pass Acc of 44% so it's more than possible).
Should caveat that with where we were sat was less then ideal to view the two left backs. Joe played on the opposite flank in the first half and I couldn't really see our left corner flag in the second. So there was a good patch of the pitch to the left of our box that was just obscured for me.
If Robbo did his best stuff there then I wouldn't have seen it.
Sorry to have to say this but I think that match may spell the end of any Premier League matches for Bryan. To be substituted at half time because you can't handle a Championship wide man is no recommendation for a place in a Premier League defense.
The pace makes itself shown in defending. There are situations where Bryan has to make a last ditch tackle where Robinson can simply cover the opponent.
Tackles are nice and get the crowd going, but Bryan was walking a very thin line last game and kept giving away fouls like candy.
U23 Football compared to the First Team stuff are poles apart.
Quote from: Tabby on April 24, 2022, 11:50:21 AM
The pace makes itself shown in defending. There are situations where Bryan has to make a last ditch tackle where Robinson can simply cover the opponent.
Tackles are nice and get the crowd going, but Bryan was walking a very thin line last game and kept giving away fouls like candy.
To be fair.. a ref of a reasonable standard wouldn't have given half of those.
Quote from: filham on April 24, 2022, 11:37:48 AM
Sorry to have to say this but I think that match may spell the end of any Premier League matches for Bryan. To be substituted at half time because you can't handle a Championship wide man is no recommendation for a place in a Premier League defense.
actually, he was taken off because he was on a yellow card and the winger was doing his damndes to get bryan sent off.
robinson was just dreadful when he appeared. he was out of positio so often and his choice of passes was ridiculous IMO.
I thought Bryan was an absolute liability yesterday, and had to come off before he got the inevitable red card. Robinson couldn't control a bag of cement, but of the two is markedly the better option for me - if only because of his pace
Quote from: ALG01 on April 24, 2022, 12:47:00 PM
Quote from: filham on April 24, 2022, 11:37:48 AM
Sorry to have to say this but I think that match may spell the end of any Premier League matches for Bryan. To be substituted at half time because you can't handle a Championship wide man is no recommendation for a place in a Premier League defense.
actually, he was taken off because he was on a yellow card and the winger was doing his damndes to get bryan sent off.
robinson was just dreadful when he appeared. he was out of positio so often and his choice of passes was ridiculous IMO.
We must have been watching different matches, I thought Robinson was solid.
Does anyone think that Bryan was subbed, because Ryan Christie was going down easy, and every time Joe tackled him, he rolled around like a fish?
He got a yellow and Silva could well have seen a red was highly likely with that scandalous referee.
Robinson was dreadful when he came on. Every pass and clearance went to an opposition player.
Do some of you actually watch the game.
When Robinson came on for Joe,Christie was well out of it then....Bryan couldn't cope with him.
Interesting debate. We need 2 players for every position. The question is are either of them premiership class. For what it's worth I thought Bryan had a shocker yesterday
Quote from: Radiowhite on April 24, 2022, 01:02:00 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 24, 2022, 12:47:00 PM
Quote from: filham on April 24, 2022, 11:37:48 AM
Sorry to have to say this but I think that match may spell the end of any Premier League matches for Bryan. To be substituted at half time because you can't handle a Championship wide man is no recommendation for a place in a Premier League defense.
actually, he was taken off because he was on a yellow card and the winger was doing his damndes to get bryan sent off.
robinson was just dreadful when he appeared. he was out of positio so often and his choice of passes was ridiculous IMO.
We must have been watching different matches, I thought Robinson was solid.
It's worth repeating.. 44% passing accuracy.
So roughly speaking, for every 5 passes Robbo made, only 2 found a Fulham player. You'd be pulled off if you played Sunday league playing like that
Robinson was only put on because because Bryan had been booked and was looking like he might well get a red in the second half. I'm not saying either had a good game but from where I watched it there was nothing glaringly bad
Joe B seems incapable of putting 2 solid performances together back to back. So just when you think he's the guy he follows it up with a poor game.
Robinson for all his pace is so often out of position so utterly reliant on his sprinting to get back which often means he doesn't make a tackle rather just gets back inbetween the player and the goal - which in most instances allows the player to get a cross in. This drives me mad on a weekly basis. Also for all his pace I'm baffled watching from JH stand why he doesn't hit the space in front of him. I don't think I've seen him make a run into the space available down the flank for someone to play a ball over the top to him - not once. Maybe this is a tactical choice from Marco, but it would seem such a missed opportunity with his pace.
Fond of both and at the time thought both were great signings, but unfortunately think neither is PL standard so would hope to see one sold and one benched for a new starting LB next season.
We need something better than either of them next season
Bryan couldn't cope with Christie and was going to get himself sent off. Robinson came on and was fine dealing with Christie's pace and physicality, but was bad in other ways as listed above. Still was better than Joe just for a baseline of defensive competence, but really sloppy with the ball once again.
Robinson is going to be in the TOTS btw. Just saying š¤·āāļø
Quote from: Radiowhite on April 24, 2022, 01:02:00 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 24, 2022, 12:47:00 PM
Quote from: filham on April 24, 2022, 11:37:48 AM
Sorry to have to say this but I think that match may spell the end of any Premier League matches for Bryan. To be substituted at half time because you can't handle a Championship wide man is no recommendation for a place in a Premier League defense.
actually, he was taken off because he was on a yellow card and the winger was doing his damndes to get bryan sent off.
robinson was just dreadful when he appeared. he was out of positio so often and his choice of passes was ridiculous IMO.
We must have been watching different matches, I thought Robinson was solid.
Well I was at the match and we are entitled to our opinion but robinson's ;lack of positional awareness and constantly trying to use his pace, and failing, frightened the life out of me. Until the last international break I thought he was way better than bryan, but at the moment rbinson needs to have a think about his game and try to use skill, not pace. obviously being quick is an advantage but it is no use if you waste it pointlessly.
Yes Robinson has just been voted in as best left back in the Championship at their awards dinner. Think we are lucky to have had both this year.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on April 24, 2022, 01:53:35 PM
Do some of you actually watch the game.
When Robinson came on for Joe,Christie was well out of it then....Bryan couldn't cope with him.
Agree. Bryan was having a poor game Robinson did much better
For me Antonee Robinson, he's young and still has a lot more skills to learn, he may be fast but his ball control and crossing on the run need work. Has a lack of concentration when defending and rash in the tackle.
Joe Bryan has a good overlap and cross on him and links well with Kebano and Mitrovic, he's not very consistent in defending. I believe he's a better winger than defender.
Personally think both Aina (when he played LB) and Targett were better fullbacks.
Surely Jedi's inclusion in the championship team of the year has put this argument to bed. Running quickly in a straight line, is clearly far more important than being able to pass the ball, cross the ball; or read the game #Jedi
I listened to the match on Saturday and according to GJ, everytime Joe tackled Ryan Christie, the guy threw himself on the ground. I realise that GJ is biased towards Fulham, but he was getting very angry at Christie's antics. Joe's not a dirty player, so I feel that GJ was probably correct. It sounded to me as if Joe had Christie in his pocket, but the ref was conned again and again and........... So, after his MOTM performancen in his previous match, I believe that Joe suddenly became shite. So, again from me, as I have consistently posted, Mr. J Bryan all day long.
Motivation isn't the same he has clinched promotion and qualification with his national side. So what if he has a pants game I really am not bothered we are up. If you choose to go to a game after we have achieved the goal for the season and expect the same level of performance more fool you.
My last post should have said that I DON'T believe that Joe suddenly became shite. Of course, you all knew that.
Our long argument must continue after this performance, bryan has not had a good time today. Less so in the first half but for about 20 mins second half he couldn't do anything right, pulled his socks up since and more to go, come on bryan! Still love those diagonal runs into the box or come on silva get robinson on to get forward some more!
Bryan when faced with an opponent who is remotely quick hasn't got a scoobie which has always been his issue, there's no point people harping on about him being better techincally than Robinson when he gets roasted by average players who happen to be the faintest bit quick
The problem also is Ream plays poorly with Bryan outside because he knows he is going to get any help. Although Ream was poor all over tonight,
We need at least one better LB next year. Neither are good enough for the Prem.
Play Larkeche, he can't possibly any worse
I think Joe has really put in aĀ shift the last two games, put in some great tackles and blocks, and was taken off before because he was being targetedĀ when he had an, unfair, yellow card.
He can make mistakes, but does some good stuff going forward too.
I think we will need greater defensive solidity in the Prem though.
Neither is good enough for the PL, and anyone who thinks Robinson played well was watching a different game to the one I was watching from the JH.
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 24, 2022, 02:12:06 PM
Quote from: Radiowhite on April 24, 2022, 01:02:00 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on April 24, 2022, 12:47:00 PM
Quote from: filham on April 24, 2022, 11:37:48 AM
Sorry to have to say this but I think that match may spell the end of any Premier League matches for Bryan. To be substituted at half time because you can't handle a Championship wide man is no recommendation for a place in a Premier League defense.
actually, he was taken off because he was on a yellow card and the winger was doing his damndes to get bryan sent off.
robinson was just dreadful when he appeared. he was out of positio so often and his choice of passes was ridiculous IMO.
We must have been watching different matches, I thought Robinson was solid.
It's worth repeating.. 44% passing accuracy.
So roughly speaking, for every 5 passes Robbo made, only 2 found a Fulham player. You'd be pulled off if you played Sunday league playing like that
But he can run quickly in a straight line, which seems to be enough for some folk
Bryan was poor tonight, Robinson so much more of a threat.
Quote from: StuinSalop on April 26, 2022, 10:55:38 PM
Bryan was poor tonight, Robinson so much more of a threat.
Nonsense.
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 12:55:08 AM
Quote from: StuinSalop on April 26, 2022, 10:55:38 PM
Bryan was poor tonight, Robinson so much more of a threat.
Nonsense.
Did you watch the match? Bryan had a mare
Ā Bryan, total crap tonight
I love Bryan but he hasn't been very good the last two matches.Ā It's time for Robinson to come back in.Ā
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 12:55:08 AM
Quote from: StuinSalop on April 26, 2022, 10:55:38 PM
Bryan was poor tonight, Robinson so much more of a threat.
Nonsense.
Then you shoulda gone to Specsavers.
Robinson advances us so more expediently and was solid defensively in the second half on Saturday whereas Bryan had been a sending off waiting to happen in the first half.
Joe delivers a good cross but other than that Robinson is superior in carrying the ball forward and getting back to cover defensively.
Quote from: Hatch007 on April 27, 2022, 06:47:02 AM
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 12:55:08 AM
Quote from: StuinSalop on April 26, 2022, 10:55:38 PM
Bryan was poor tonight, Robinson so much more of a threat.
Nonsense.
Then you shoulda gone to Specsavers.
Robinson advances us so more expediently and was solid defensively in the second half on Saturday whereas Bryan had been a sending off waiting to happen in the first half.
Joe delivers a good cross but other than that Robinson is superior in carrying the ball forward and getting back to cover defensively.
Joe's card was unfair - the B/mouth player kept looking to go down, and once Joe had got the card he was targeted to get him sent off, that's why he was subbed.
I don't think Joe deserves the criticism for the last two games: i think he had done well overall, with some crucial blocks and tackles against good, pacey wingers. He canĀ mishit passes going forward,Ā but it wasn't only him yesterday, but does good things too - look at his assist the other week v Preston.
As for comparing him to Robinson, wellĀ they each have their own qualities, but I certainly don't think Joe has doneĀ badly in theĀ last two games he's played.
I do think though that we will need defensive rethinking for the Prem.
To be fair Joe did not have any support last night BDR had a shocker although again to be fair wide left is not really his position.
To be fair, both are pretty s**t ! Sorry but they are, for the last two games it's a case of Silva trying to work out which player is the least s**t out of the two,
Over the last 40 years neither would make the Left Back Top 10,
That position must be a priority in the summer.
Bryan and Ream on the left has never been a good combination.Ā It works with Robinson and Ream, partly because Robinson has the pace that Ream lacks and provides better cover.
Can anyone shed any light on Robinson's omission from the squad yesterday ? He looked fine walking across the pitch at half time ?
Quote from: Whitestone on April 27, 2022, 07:50:37 AM
Bryan and Ream on the left has never been a good combination.Ā It works with Robinson and Ream, partly because Robinson has the pace that Ream lacks and provides better cover.
Can anyone shed any light on Robinson's omission from the squad yesterday ? He looked fine walking across the pitch at half time ?
.
I have said this before as well, Reams worst games happen when Bryan is outside, when the ball is upfield and lost Bryan cannot get back but Robbo does, Ream pushes up more when Bryan is playing which leaves that big space behind.
Quote from: Riversider on April 27, 2022, 07:37:00 AM
To be fair, both are pretty s**t ! Sorry but they are, for the last two games it's a case of Silva trying to work out which player is the least s**t out of the two,
Over the last 40 years neither would make the Left Back Top 10,
That position must be a priority in the summer.
And yet Robinson is championship left back of the seasonš¤·āāļø
Don't remember Joe getting beaten significantly night.
I do remember getting back and recovering on a couple of occasions, I remember him dealing well with Spence's pace and not getting his pocket picked and I remember a few really dangerous balls into the box.
I'd love to know from those who thought he had a bad game where he went wrong yesterday.
Would also be curious to know who was watching from the ground and who was watching from a screen somewhere.
Quote from: Hatch007 on April 27, 2022, 06:47:02 AM
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 12:55:08 AM
Quote from: StuinSalop on April 26, 2022, 10:55:38 PM
Bryan was poor tonight, Robinson so much more of a threat.
Nonsense.
Then you shoulda gone to Specsavers.
Robinson advances us so more expediently and was solid defensively in the second half on Saturday whereas Bryan had been a sending off waiting to happen in the first half.
Joe delivers a good cross but other than that Robinson is superior in carrying the ball forward and getting back to cover defensively.
Listen it's too easy to start ranting at people on here so I'm going to avoid that.
I wouldn't really go with that. Bryan's booking was a result of some dodgey reffing and gamesmanship from Bournemouth. Apparently he gave away 7 fouls and there was barely a bad tackle involved.
Robinson should count his lucky stars that Billing went off for the second half. He had been pressing the channels the Tim/Joe were working in a lot more effectively then Solanke on the other side.. with Christie as well in that side, Bournemouth we're overloading that area of the pitch. It was all change second half.
Quote from: bobby01 on April 27, 2022, 09:08:13 AM
Quote from: Riversider on April 27, 2022, 07:37:00 AM
To be fair, both are pretty s**t ! Sorry but they are, for the last two games it's a case of Silva trying to work out which player is the least s**t out of the two,
Over the last 40 years neither would make the Left Back Top 10,
That position must be a priority in the summer.
And yet Robinson is championship left back of the seasonš¤·āāļø
And yet not good enough to start for Fulham according to Marco .
Quote from: Riversider on April 27, 2022, 09:41:57 AM
Quote from: bobby01 on April 27, 2022, 09:08:13 AM
Quote from: Riversider on April 27, 2022, 07:37:00 AM
To be fair, both are pretty s**t ! Sorry but they are, for the last two games it's a case of Silva trying to work out which player is the least s**t out of the two,
Over the last 40 years neither would make the Left Back Top 10,
That position must be a priority in the summer.
And yet Robinson is championship left back of the seasonš¤·āāļø
And yet not good enough to start for Fulham according to Marco .
On what basis have you come to that conclusion ? Robinson has been first choice left back for most of the games this season.
I'll take Robinsons failed crosses and generally poor passing in advanced positions over Bryan being dominated and robbed of the ball in dangerous positions
Quote from: jayffc on April 27, 2022, 10:02:58 AM
I'll take Robinsons failed crosses and generally poor passing in advanced positions over Bryan being dominated and robbed of the ball in dangerous positions
Does he though..?
A few objective numbers for you.
Dispossessed per 90mins
Robinson: 0.82
Bryan: 0.43Possession lost per 90mins
Robinson: 20.15 (highest in squad)
Bryan: 16.62
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 10:20:04 AM
Quote from: jayffc on April 27, 2022, 10:02:58 AM
I'll take Robinsons failed crosses and generally poor passing in advanced positions over Bryan being dominated and robbed of the ball in dangerous positions
Does he though..?
A few objective numbers for you.
Dispossessed per 90mins
Robinson: 0.82
Bryan: 0.43
Possession lost per 90mins
Robinson: 20.15 (highest in squad)
Bryan: 16.62
My point was where the posession is lost
Robinson makes runs forward more at pace deep into opposition half and his passing hasnt been great so I'm not overly suprised with these stats but they don't tell the whole story at all.
Perhaps the stats dont back this up either...but to the eye test...id stamd by that I'd rather Robinson losing the ball deep in opposing half then the recent spat of Bryan, especially in the last few games, being dispossessed or losing battles in our own half or very close to leading to dangerous attacks.
Quote from: jayffc on April 27, 2022, 10:53:41 AM
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 10:20:04 AM
Quote from: jayffc on April 27, 2022, 10:02:58 AM
I'll take Robinsons failed crosses and generally poor passing in advanced positions over Bryan being dominated and robbed of the ball in dangerous positions
Does he though..?
A few objective numbers for you.
Dispossessed per 90mins
Robinson: 0.82
Bryan: 0.43
Possession lost per 90mins
Robinson: 20.15 (highest in squad)
Bryan: 16.62
My point was where the posession is lost
Robinson makes runs forward more at pace deep into opposition half and his passing hasnt been great so I'm not overly suprised with these stats but they don't tell the whole story at all.
Perhaps the stats dont back this up either...but to the eye test...id stamd by that I'd rather Robinson losing the ball deep in opposing half then the recent spat of Bryan, especially in the last few games, being dispossessed or losing battles in our own half or very close to leading to dangerous attacks.
Yup fair, the stats are not the be all and are small snapshot.
I can't say I'd go along with Bryan losing the ball more then Robbo in bad areas.
I've seen him lose the ball but for the most part it's because the ball out to him was poor or slow and has put him under pressure. Under those circumstances I don't think it's unreasonable that he's lost the ball.
(Happened last night around the 30-35 min mark maybe)
Robbo is just as bad for me. His poor decision making as often meant we lose the ball as we are countering, leaving us exposed at the back as players have flooded forward in anticipation of a successful attack on goal. You've now got 6 or 7 players out of position struggling to get back because of Robbo's decision making.
(He did this in the 2nd half at Bournemouth, trying to dribble out of left back and not releasing the ball when he should have)
Personally, I rate both players -unquestionable commitment and bravery from them both when they are on the pitch and also very likeable people from what I have seen. Plus, both obviously popular members of the squad.
Such players - should not be called 'poo' in my opinion - but each to their own.
Certainly based on performances this season (and the fact that he played the majority of games last season), Robinson is better suited to the Premier League. His obvious asset is his pace and conversely Joe's lack of pace means that I don't think he can be considered even as back up next season.Ā In his case, I think he deserves to move to a Championship team where he will get more game time...
I think Joe had a great game last night. He actually looks to pass forward often and his crosses were 'peachy'. He defended well and didn't really put a foot wrong. How often does Robbo pass the ball forward? He usually runs at 100mph down the wing, hits trouble and then passes back. Most of his crosses hit an opposition player. I can't really see why this debate keeps on running tbh. There is quite clearly two distinct camps for Joe and Robbo, and it's unlikely that we'll agree to disagree.
Quote from: FreiBird on April 27, 2022, 03:37:58 PM
Joe Bryan awful again last night.
Has had one game this season (Preston) where he wasn't by far and away the worst player on the pitch.
First things first.
What an absolute load of crap that is.
Crossing quality isn't just measured solely in accuracy. Crossing is the only form of passing where expect more to miss then to land.
It's the very nature of whipping a ball into an area of the field where 99% of the time you are at a numerical disadvantage.
Quote from: FreiBird on April 27, 2022, 04:02:03 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 03:45:54 PM
Quote from: FreiBird on April 27, 2022, 03:37:58 PM
Joe Bryan awful again last night.
Has had one game this season (Preston) where he wasn't by far and away the worst player on the pitch.
First things first.
What an absolute load of crap that is.
Crossing quality isn't just measured solely in accuracy. Crossing is the only form of passing where expect more to miss then to land.
It's the very nature of whipping a ball into an area of the field where 99% of the time you are at a numerical disadvantage.
How many goals have we scored from Joe's quality crosses this season?
In fact how many have actually made it anywhere near a Fulham player?
So on top of your over active imagination, you also can't read?
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 04:19:08 PM
Quote from: FreiBird on April 27, 2022, 04:02:03 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 03:45:54 PM
Quote from: FreiBird on April 27, 2022, 03:37:58 PM
Joe Bryan awful again last night.
Has had one game this season (Preston) where he wasn't by far and away the worst player on the pitch.
First things first.
What an absolute load of crap that is.
Crossing quality isn't just measured solely in accuracy. Crossing is the only form of passing where expect more to miss then to land.
It's the very nature of whipping a ball into an area of the field where 99% of the time you are at a numerical disadvantage.
How many goals have we scored from Joe's quality crosses this season?
In fact how many have actually made it anywhere near a Fulham player?
So on top of your over active imagination, you also can't read?
No idea why you're being insulting when he's literally presented you with evidence on like for like passing/crossing with accuracy......Asking whether he can read when he's literally presented evidence for your baseless claim is weird.
Quote from: New Kid on the Block on April 27, 2022, 01:35:58 PM
I think Joe had a great game last night. He actually looks to pass forward often and his crosses were 'peachy'. He defended well and didn't really put a foot wrong. How often does Robbo pass the ball forward? He usually runs at 100mph down the wing, hits trouble and then passes back. Most of his crosses hit an opposition player. I can't really see why this debate keeps on running tbh. There is quite clearly two distinct camps for Joe and Robbo, and it's unlikely that we'll agree to disagree.
Not passing comment on who is best but we're you actually at the game last night.Ā Joe was ok first half but the second half he was a walking disaster. By the time he was substituted his head was obviously all over the place.
Quote from: FFC1987 on April 27, 2022, 04:56:45 PM
No idea why you're being insulting when he's literally presented you with evidence
Me: crossing quality is measured on more the accurate crosses
FB: point out accurate crosses Bryan has made He's clearly not read my response. Either he can't read or chooses not to
Quote from: FFC1987 on April 27, 2022, 04:56:45 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 04:19:08 PM
Quote from: FreiBird on April 27, 2022, 04:02:03 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 03:45:54 PM
Quote from: FreiBird on April 27, 2022, 03:37:58 PM
Joe Bryan awful again last night.
Has had one game this season (Preston) where he wasn't by far and away the worst player on the pitch.
First things first.
What an absolute load of crap that is.
Crossing quality isn't just measured solely in accuracy. Crossing is the only form of passing where expect more to miss then to land.
It's the very nature of whipping a ball into an area of the field where 99% of the time you are at a numerical disadvantage.
How many goals have we scored from Joe's quality crosses this season?
In fact how many have actually made it anywhere near a Fulham player?
So on top of your over active imagination, you also can't read?
No idea why you're being insulting when he's literally presented you with evidence on like for like passing/crossing with accuracy......Asking whether he can read when he's literally presented evidence for your baseless claim is weird.
Keen to know what "baseless claim" I've actually made in your view..
I think we have bigger problems than this to sort out next season, don thitnk the upgrade from Robinson/Bryan is sufficient to spend 10m on a new LB.
Robinson, Bryan, Tete and Ola Aina is a perfectly acceptable group of fullbacks for me. (Aina will leave Torina this summer, for perhaps [2-3m])
Definitely in the "they're both fine" camp.Ā
There's a reason Robinson was in the Championship team of the season.Ā No-one thinks he's worth targeting as a weakness. Yes, pace is a key reason.Ā But I don't care, in the sense that how he gets the job done is less important than the result.Ā He's a thoroughly effective defender. And yes, he does help Ream quite a lot.Ā Particularly since Neco arrived, determined to go on capers up field requiring Robinson to sit a bit more.
Last night Bryan had a 'mare. For 15 minutes he could hardly kick the ball straight.Ā Got a bit frustrated with himself only making things worse.Ā Settled better after the break (or maybe he wasn't just under my nose).Ā Anyhow, these things happen.Ā For such a longstanding and successful player for us it changes my opinion not one jot.
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 05:24:20 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on April 27, 2022, 04:56:45 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 04:19:08 PM
Quote from: FreiBird on April 27, 2022, 04:02:03 PM
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 27, 2022, 03:45:54 PM
Quote from: FreiBird on April 27, 2022, 03:37:58 PM
Joe Bryan awful again last night.
Has had one game this season (Preston) where he wasn't by far and away the worst player on the pitch.
First things first.
What an absolute load of crap that is.
Crossing quality isn't just measured solely in accuracy. Crossing is the only form of passing where expect more to miss then to land.
It's the very nature of whipping a ball into an area of the field where 99% of the time you are at a numerical disadvantage.
How many goals have we scored from Joe's quality crosses this season?
In fact how many have actually made it anywhere near a Fulham player?
So on top of your over active imagination, you also can't read?
No idea why you're being insulting when he's literally presented you with evidence on like for like passing/crossing with accuracy......Asking whether he can read when he's literally presented evidence for your baseless claim is weird.
Keen to know what "baseless claim" I've actually made in your view..
I figured you were implying in your assessment of accuracy on crosses that Bryan was in front? Have I read that wrong? Seeing you started your statement with it was a load of ****.
The thing for me about those stats which is most interesting, is Bryans more accurate in his own half and this typifies why I personally prefer Robinson to Bryan (albeit both are absolutely fine) is, he doesn't have that energy and drive Robinson does so more often than not will be passing sideways and back to retain possession, whereas Robinson is bursting past so likely playing the ball forward more. But otherwise Robinson stats are better in almost all errors to Bryan.
If the above wasn't what you mean, happy to retract the baseless comment but let's keep it civil chap.
The real issue here is are either of them good enough for the premiership? I think not. I also don't think Tete is, nor is Ream, nor is Rodak. So we have a real problem. Hopefully we can get Williams, but that still leaves 3 positions that need strengthening, just if defence.
Quote from: St Eve on April 27, 2022, 09:58:41 PM
The real issue here is are either of them good enough for the premiership? I think not. I also don't think Tete is, nor is Ream, nor is Rodak. So we have a real problem. Hopefully we can get Williams, but that still leaves 3 positions that need strengthening, just if defence.
Happy with Bryan and Robinson for LB and Tete at RB. Fitness is Tetes issue so Williams in would be great. Out of that backline, a CB for Ream and GK for Rodak are what we need in the market tbh.
Quote from: FreiBird on April 27, 2022, 03:37:58 PM
Joe Bryan awful again last night.
Has had one game this season (Preston) where he wasn't by far and away the worst player on the pitch.
Everyone loves to bring up his "amazing" crossing and passing, when in reality, it's been objectively worse than Robinson this season.
Joe Bryan
Assists_____________1
Touches____________63.9
Big chances created___2
Key passes__________0.5
Accurate per game____32.3 (79%)
Acc. own half________16.3 (85%)
Acc. opposition half___16.4 (69%)
Acc. long balls_______1.5 (32%)
Acc. chipped passes__1.1 (33%)
Acc. crosses________0.4 (17%)
Antonee Robison
Assists____________4
Touches___________82.1
Big chances created__7
Key passes_________1.1
Accurate per game___45.1 (81%)
Acc. own half_______20.9 (83%)
Acc. opposition half__25.4 (72%)
Acc. long balls______2.9 (50%)
Acc. chipped passes__1.5 (43%)
Acc. crosses________1.2 (29%)
Source of these stats ?
Quote from: St Eve on April 27, 2022, 09:58:41 PM
The real issue here is are either of them good enough for the premiership? I think not. I also don't think Tete is, nor is Ream, nor is Rodak. So we have a real problem. Hopefully we can get Williams, but that still leaves 3 positions that need strengthening, just if defence.
I , in the main agree with you ( the exception in my case is Tete )
For me this thread would be about who , out of the two , we keep as back up - and would either of them want to stay if that were the case ?
Quote from: FFC1987 on April 27, 2022, 10:02:29 PM
Quote from: St Eve on April 27, 2022, 09:58:41 PM
The real issue here is are either of them good enough for the premiership? I think not. I also don't think Tete is, nor is Ream, nor is Rodak. So we have a real problem. Hopefully we can get Williams, but that still leaves 3 positions that need strengthening, just if defence.
Happy with Bryan and Robinson for LB and Tete at RB. Fitness is Tetes issue so Williams in would be great. Out of that backline, a CB for Ream and GK for Rodak are what we need in the market tbh.
I hope you are right, but I don't share your confidence in Bryan, Robinson and Tete
Robinson all day long for me. His work rate/fitness is good.
He makes a few inexperienced decisions but his pace gets him out of trouble.
Bryan is now weak in this division this season so PL, imo, is a no no.
Quote from: FFC1987 on April 27, 2022, 09:45:39 PM
I figured you were implying in your assessment of accuracy on crosses that Bryan was in front? Have I read that wrong? Seeing you started your statement with it was a load of ****.
The thing for me about those stats which is most interesting, is Bryans more accurate in his own half and this typifies why I personally prefer Robinson to Bryan (albeit both are absolutely fine) is, he doesn't have that energy and drive Robinson does so more often than not will be passing sideways and back to retain possession, whereas Robinson is bursting past so likely playing the ball forward more. But otherwise Robinson stats are better in almost all errors to Bryan.
If the above wasn't what you mean, happy to retract the baseless comment but let's keep it civil chap.
I was more aiming at his statement that Joe Bryan was awful and had only had 1 good game this season.
That's a ridiculous statement and shows massive amounts of bias quite frankly.
If you back Robbo based on the qualities you've pointed to, then I can understand.
There are loads of good and fair posts on this thread in favour of Robbo that I can empathise with. Freibird's posts isn't in that category.
Re: the stats he posted
I really think they are very very similar. To the point where we are splitting hairs between them. The one stat I found interesting was the key passes. Robbo at
1.1 compared to Joe at
0.5 is fairly stark and is the obvious one that stands out for me.
For the uninitiated, that's a pass that leads to the next player having a shot. Seems pretty significant that Robbo is able to help us get more shots at goal, he's about twice as effective. I do think it's partly because Joe hasn't had a run in the team and I think if he had got a run of 8-10 games we'd see some of his numbers pick up.
The last time he played significantly was in the championship under Parker and a lot of these stats were really impressive - and that was in a team that only went past the halfway of they absolutely had to.
P.s. apologies for the long reply
Quote from: simplyfulham on April 28, 2022, 10:12:54 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on April 27, 2022, 09:45:39 PM
I figured you were implying in your assessment of accuracy on crosses that Bryan was in front? Have I read that wrong? Seeing you started your statement with it was a load of ****.
The thing for me about those stats which is most interesting, is Bryans more accurate in his own half and this typifies why I personally prefer Robinson to Bryan (albeit both are absolutely fine) is, he doesn't have that energy and drive Robinson does so more often than not will be passing sideways and back to retain possession, whereas Robinson is bursting past so likely playing the ball forward more. But otherwise Robinson stats are better in almost all errors to Bryan.
If the above wasn't what you mean, happy to retract the baseless comment but let's keep it civil chap.
I was more aiming at his statement that Joe Bryan was awful and had only had 1 good game this season.
That's a ridiculous statement and shows massive amounts of bias quite frankly.
If you back Robbo based on the qualities you've pointed to, then I can understand.
There are loads of good and fair posts on this thread in favour of Robbo that I can empathise with. Freibird's posts isn't in that category.
Re: the stats he posted
I really think they are very very similar. To the point where we are splitting hairs between them. The one stat I found interesting was the key passes. Robbo at 1.1 compared to Joe at 0.5 is fairly stark and is the obvious one that stands out for me.
For the uninitiated, that's a pass that leads to the next player having a shot.
Seems pretty significant that Robbo is able to help us get more shots at goal, he's about twice as effective. I do think it's partly because Joe hasn't had a run in the team and I think if he had got a run of 8-10 games we'd see some of his numbers pick up.
The last time he played significantly was in the championship under Parker and a lot of these stats were really impressive - and that was in a team that only went past the halfway of they absolutely had to.
P.s. apologies for the long reply
Fair point, and I'll retract baseless as I agree with you. Bryan wasn't rubbish by any stretch but I don't think he had his best games either.
I honestly think that stat you mentioned about key passes is significantly down to Robbo's pace compared to Bryan. Bryan struggles to get into final third as much compared to Robbo. So many times you see Bryan struggling to make the run behind with the player almost beckoning him on. I still say both are important to next season though. Games with less of the ball and looking to break ie top 10 teams home and away, I'd expect Robbo to start and games against bottom 10 at home, I'd think Bryan get's the nod where we have more of the ball and teams will take less of the ball.
Just my thoughts on it. Appreciate people don't rate both but for me, it's on the least required investment areas of this team.
Dont see the issue at all.
Robinson is far the better player...Sorry Joe but he is.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on April 28, 2022, 07:33:55 PM
Dont see the issue at all.
Robinson is far the better player...Sorry Joe but he is.
No doubt about it
