But why does Pereira walk straight into the team ? If Tom Cairney started on Saturday we'd of been a better team and could of beaten Wolves IMO, when he came on for the last 5 mins or so you could see the difference
Don't get me wrong I think Pereira has potential and puts in a shift but to me Cairney is just a much better player who can pick a pass whereas Pereira's final ball was rather woeful "which the commentator pointed out" Tony Gale I do believe,,,,,, his corner kicks were decent but that's about it..
If anything I'd do it the other way round and Start TC which I was hoping Marco was going to do then SUB him off for Pereira for the last 15 mins or so if need be.
I know all the TC haters Bongo etc. are gonna come at me with the usual "he's not good enough for the prem" nonsense BUT seriously it's just so obvious to me that Cairney is a supreme player
Tom Carney isn't going to do the off the ball movement nearly as well as Fabio or Andreas. He definitely doesn't have that type of motor.
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The issue with TC is he just cannot offer defensively what Pereira can. Pereira's pressing is so important to our defensive play
Should be getting TC more game time no doubt.
Quote from: perry geyton on August 15, 2022, 05:22:02 AM
But why does Pereira walk straight into the team ? If Tom Cairney started on Saturday we'd of been a better team and could of beaten Wolves IMO, when he came on for the last 5 mins or so you could see the difference
Don't get me wrong I think Pereira has potential and puts in a shift but to me Cairney is just a much better player who can pick a pass whereas Pereira's final ball was rather woeful "which the commentator pointed out" Tony Gale I do believe,,,,,, his corner kicks were decent but that's about it..
If anything I'd do it the other way round and Start TC which I was hoping Marco was going to do then SUB him off for Pereira for the last 15 mins or so if need be.
I know all the TC haters Bongo etc. are gonna come at me with the usual "he's not good enough for the prem" nonsense BUT seriously it's just so obvious to me that Cairney is a supreme player
It's just you Piri lol.
They are very different players (much more so than I'd anticipated), and really that has been summarised already in the thread. The way we are set up so far relies on someone in advanced midfield putting in a whirling dervish of activity. He is also very quick off the mark. TC has almost entirely different virtues. It would be great to combine them in a single player, but it's hard to think of one even at the very top clubs.
Too early to say who's the better player but Pereira offers more for the pressing game Silva wants and thus will usually start before Cairney I expect.
I think Periera has settled in nicely - he's a starter for me
This is the fast furious Premier League and Silva is aware that we are in a relegation battle from day one. He has to play it tight , all players have to be physically tough and able to offer something in defense. He really can't open up the game early on with the talents and skill that Cairney offers and give away a little in defense.
However I think gradually, as we settle in, things may change and Tom will have his moments.
It's just you, although i think TC should be brought on slightly earlier in the 2nd half, perhaps around 75th min to give him 20min including stoppage time.
Quote from: We Are Premier League on August 15, 2022, 11:38:55 AM
It's just you, although i think TC should be brought on slightly earlier in the 2nd half, perhaps around 75th min to give him 20min including stoppage time.
We haven't yet been traillng, but that won't last! TC's creativity and shooting will have a greater premium when it's essential to score, than when we are basically holding on for a result. It won't necessarily be Pereira he comes on the replace, however. And in general, as several have pointed out, this isn't about which player is "better" than another, but which tools to deploy for which circumstances.
I agree with the OP, and am surprised at the love Pereira is getting after the last game. I thought he was hands-down the worst player on the team, and it was no surprise to me he was purportedly the first player coming off for Stansfield until Kebano was hurt. His work-rate was down, his reaction time was slow, and with the exception of one gorgeous pass, his passing was woeful. He was the principal reason Fulham had much less control of the midfield than against Liverpool. I do not think Fulham's press would have been any more ineffective with Cairney.
I'd put money on it that we'd be a better team if TC started
Let Harrison and Paulinho do the pressing,
Toms our creative outlet and we are slightly lacking in that department
I think eventually that Marco will wake up too it
I think that may the "slight change" Marco mentioned.
When Sololom and Harry are fit we may revert back to last years more 'Gung Ho"
We've only played 2 games and are unbeaten, MS will slowly develop the team and
no doubt tweak dependent on the opposision.
Brentford offer a different challenge and are excellent at it, tweak, tweak
It's just you. TC unfortunately is just too slow and cannot defend
Pereira did so much running and covering Neves throughout the pitch. I am a huge TC fan, but there's no way he could've stuck with Neves like that. Watch the match replay, wherever Neves went, Pereira was right by him. Even when Neves dropped between the two defenders, Pereira was right there to pressure.
Both managers did their homework, because Neves followed Pereira through the pitch as well, although not as tight.
When Cairney came in, the context had changed. Both sides going for it. Pereira started to push past Neves, while Neves continued to stay back. Defensively, Pereira started to block Neves passing lane more and was less inclined to follow him all over the pitch. Thankfully Neves movement was fairly limited to allow the wingbacks more chance to overload our sides.
Overall, Pereira did his job. It wasn't an easy day, and it was more about his defensive duties than it was his chance creation - which he still managed to do in slotting the through pass to BDR which led to Mitro's penalty. There's a reason a lot of teams struggle against Wolves when Neves has free-roam to creating chances. Pereira limited that, and should be acknowledged. In the position of Cairney vs Pereira, it's so tough because I too wanted to see TC. Unfortunately, I think the lack of attacking quality from our wingers and central defensive midfielders is what hurt us from having more chances towards goal.
Quote from: Matt10 on August 15, 2022, 04:23:48 PM
Pereira did so much running and covering Neves throughout the pitch. I am a huge TC fan, but there's no way he could've stuck with Neves like that. Watch the match replay, wherever Neves went, Pereira was right by him. Even when Neves dropped between the two defenders, Pereira was right there to pressure.
Both managers did their homework, because Neves followed Pereira through the pitch as well, although not as tight.
When Cairney came in, the context had changed. Both sides going for it. Pereira started to push past Neves, while Neves continued to stay back. Defensively, Pereira started to block Neves passing lane more and was less inclined to follow him all over the pitch. Thankfully Neves movement was fairly limited to allow the wingbacks more chance to overload our sides.
Overall, Pereira did his job. It wasn't an easy day, and it was more about his defensive duties than it was his chance creation - which he still managed to do in slotting the through pass to BDR which led to Mitro's penalty. There's a reason a lot of teams struggle against Wolves when Neves has free-roam to creating chances. Pereira limited that, and should be acknowledged. In the position of Cairney vs Pereira, it's so tough because I too wanted to see TC. Unfortunately, I think the lack of attacking quality from our wingers and central defensive midfielders is what hurt us from having more chances towards goal.
Solid points
Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of a line up, how come not one team comes in for the great competing aggressive midfielder ?
TC is class and can turn any game
Play him
Quote from: ex-Pat on August 15, 2022, 06:16:44 PM
Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of a line up, how come not one team comes in for the great competing aggressive midfielder ?
Utterly clueless
One could argue the Pereira love fest is well OTT
ALONG WITH Tim Ream TC will also prove the haters wrong once again this season
I think it's a close call. As folks have said, it's:
Good pressing but truly woeful passing
vs
Low defensive work rate with sublime touch
I go with TC. We can't settle for draws to stay up, and Pereira's passing has killed about a dozen moves through two matches.
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:23:34 AM
It's just you Piri lol.
I actually agree with the OP to a degree against certain opposition but I did LMFAO at your post 😂
Quote from: Hatch007 on August 16, 2022, 12:19:39 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:23:34 AM
It's just you Piri lol.
I actually agree with the OP to a degree against certain opposition but I did LMFAO at your post 😂
Looks like quite a few agree Bongo
Quote from: perry geyton on August 16, 2022, 01:13:10 AM
Quote from: Hatch007 on August 16, 2022, 12:19:39 AM
Quote from: blingo on August 15, 2022, 09:23:34 AM
It's just you Piri lol.
I actually agree with the OP to a degree against certain opposition but I did LMFAO at your post 😂
Looks like quite a few agree Bongo
Until he makes one mistake on the pitch and then the knives will come out Piri.
Quote from: perry geyton on August 15, 2022, 11:13:37 PM
Quote from: ex-Pat on August 15, 2022, 06:16:44 PM
Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of a line up, how come not one team comes in for the great competing aggressive midfielder ?
Utterly clueless
One could argue the Pereira love fest is well OTT
ALONG WITH Tim Ream TC will also prove the haters wrong once again this season
Mr PG, just because someone prefers another player to TC, doesn't mean they are TC "haters"
Quote from: ex-Pat on August 15, 2022, 06:16:44 PM
Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of a line up, how come not one team comes in for the great competing aggressive midfielder ?
Lol I wondered how long it would take him. This is the same guy that argued Mitro was a waste of space. No idea!
Quote from: alfie on August 16, 2022, 07:33:39 AM
Quote from: perry geyton on August 15, 2022, 11:13:37 PM
Quote from: ex-Pat on August 15, 2022, 06:16:44 PM
Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of a line up, how come not one team comes in for the great competing aggressive midfielder ?
Utterly clueless
One could argue the Pereira love fest is well OTT
ALONG WITH Tim Ream TC will also prove the haters wrong once again this season
Mr PG, just because someone prefers another player to TC, doesn't mean they are TC "haters"
Agree with that. There is enough division on this board throughout the course of a season as it is.
Both are good players, both are extremely different types of player and one will fit the system better than the other. Thats all that there is to it.
Love Cairney. Utter gem to watch, but am I a hater because I think Pereria is better suited at the moment with his pace and workrate? Seems a flimsy binary position to me.
Quote from: ex-Pat on August 15, 2022, 06:16:44 PM
Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of a line up, how come not one team comes in for the great competing aggressive midfielder ?
No team will come in for Cairney simply because they would be wasting their time. We wouldn't let him go and he wouldn't want to leave.
Quote from: filham on August 16, 2022, 10:15:48 AM
Quote from: ex-Pat on August 15, 2022, 06:16:44 PM
Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of a line up, how come not one team comes in for the great competing aggressive midfielder ?
You're wrong Mr F,.......MONEY TALKS.
No team will come in for Cairney simply because they would be wasting their time. We wouldn't let him go and he wouldn't want to leave.
Quote from: alfie on August 16, 2022, 07:33:39 AM
Quote from: perry geyton on August 15, 2022, 11:13:37 PM
Quote from: ex-Pat on August 15, 2022, 06:16:44 PM
Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of a line up, how come not one team comes in for the great competing aggressive midfielder ?
Utterly clueless
One could argue the Pereira love fest is well OTT
ALONG WITH Tim Ream TC will also prove the haters wrong once again this season
Mr PG, just because someone prefers another player to TC, doesn't mean they are TC "haters"
Prefers ? Did you not read what he said ? "Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of line up in this team" ?
If that's not hating I don't know what is, clueless hating IMO
And yet people come to his defense
We can't have Mitro, Cairney, Kebano and BDR as our starting front four. It would be the slowest unit in the league by a mile. We currently need Pereira's work rate, which is something that Tom cannot provide. When we're trailing by a goal in the second half, I think Tom will get more playing time, as the priority in that match changes.
We're a team built on imperfect players. Right now, we have to hope Pereira starts to make better decisions in the offensive third instead of hoping Tom can suddenly run with bad knees and 30+ years on him. If/when we bring in additional options, that could change. But not for Cairney at this point.
Quote from: perry geyton on August 16, 2022, 04:08:55 PM
Quote from: alfie on August 16, 2022, 07:33:39 AM
Quote from: perry geyton on August 15, 2022, 11:13:37 PM
Quote from: ex-Pat on August 15, 2022, 06:16:44 PM
Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of a line up, how come not one team comes in for the great competing aggressive midfielder ?
Utterly clueless
One could argue the Pereira love fest is well OTT
ALONG WITH Tim Ream TC will also prove the haters wrong once again this season
Mr PG, just because someone prefers another player to TC, doesn't mean they are TC "haters"
Prefers ? Did you not read what he said ? "Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of line up in this team" ?
If that's not hating I don't know what is, clueless hating IMO
And yet people come to his defense
Having looked again, I can't see anywhere he has used the word "hating" you are the only that seems to be using that word.
TC for me nowhere near getting a place in the team.Best days behind him. Good option to have on the bench.
But will he do the pressing ,tackling ,running .Been impressed with the team so far .
And still signings to come in and Wilson to come back.
Quote from: Matt10 on August 15, 2022, 04:23:48 PM
Pereira did so much running and covering Neves throughout the pitch. I am a huge TC fan, but there's no way he could've stuck with Neves like that. Watch the match replay, wherever Neves went, Pereira was right by him. Even when Neves dropped between the two defenders, Pereira was right there to pressure.
Both managers did their homework, because Neves followed Pereira through the pitch as well, although not as tight.
When Cairney came in, the context had changed. Both sides going for it. Pereira started to push past Neves, while Neves continued to stay back. Defensively, Pereira started to block Neves passing lane more and was less inclined to follow him all over the pitch. Thankfully Neves movement was fairly limited to allow the wingbacks more chance to overload our sides.
Overall, Pereira did his job. It wasn't an easy day, and it was more about his defensive duties than it was his chance creation - which he still managed to do in slotting the through pass to BDR which led to Mitro's penalty. There's a reason a lot of teams struggle against Wolves when Neves has free-roam to creating chances. Pereira limited that, and should be acknowledged. In the position of Cairney vs Pereira, it's so tough because I too wanted to see TC. Unfortunately, I think the lack of attacking quality from our wingers and central defensive midfielders is what hurt us from having more chances towards goal.
Yes well picked up.Pereira for me.
People are.really.ignoring Marco Silva's scheme,, which so far has been successful? It requires the attacking mid to move more than any other player. At times Andreas will be the only starting player with pace to be a threat on the counter...he can press any of the opposing defensive players...
Tom Carney is going to be more useful coming in as a sub. He should come.on to.replace.Kebano.much sooner though. 65th minute or so.
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Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 16, 2022, 06:15:22 PM
Tom Carney is going to be more useful coming in as a sub. He should come.on to.replace.Kebano.much sooner though. 65th minute or so.
Sent from my KFTRWI using Tapatalk
I don't know if you were around the last time that experiment happened (thats genuine, I'm not being rude) but unless I am remembering incorrectly, Cairney out wide was a complete disaster.
Quote from: alfie on August 16, 2022, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: perry geyton on August 16, 2022, 04:08:55 PM
Quote from: alfie on August 16, 2022, 07:33:39 AM
Quote from: perry geyton on August 15, 2022, 11:13:37 PM
Quote from: ex-Pat on August 15, 2022, 06:16:44 PM
Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of a line up, how come not one team comes in for the great competing aggressive midfielder ?
Utterly clueless
One could argue the Pereira love fest is well OTT
ALONG WITH Tim Ream TC will also prove the haters wrong once again this season
Mr PG, just because someone prefers another player to TC, doesn't mean they are TC "haters"
Prefers ? Did you not read what he said ? "Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of line up in this team" ?
If that's not hating I don't know what is, clueless hating IMO
And yet people come to his defense
Having looked again, I can't see anywhere he has used the word "hating" you are the only that seems to be using that word.
You don't have to use the word HATE to be HATING
he already expressed his hate through his opinion
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on August 16, 2022, 07:05:37 PM
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 16, 2022, 06:15:22 PM
Tom Carney is going to be more useful coming in as a sub. He should come.on to.replace.Kebano.much sooner though. 65th minute or so.
Sent from my KFTRWI using Tapatalk
I don't know if you were around the last time that experiment happened (thats genuine, I'm not being rude) but unless I am remembering incorrectly, Cairney out wide was a complete disaster.
Def not a winger
Cairney should play the creative role behind Mitro
In fact Pereira seemed more effective on the wing to me
Quote from: AnOldBrownie on August 16, 2022, 06:15:22 PM
People are.really.ignoring Marco Silva's scheme,, which so far has been successful? It requires the attacking mid to move more than any other player. At times Andreas will be the only starting player with pace to be a threat on the counter...he can press any of the opposing defensive players...
Tom Carney is going to be more useful coming in as a sub. He should come.on to.replace.Kebano.much sooner though. 65th minute or so.
Sent from my KFTRWI using Tapatalk
Spot On, Marco Silva's main plan for the AM to cover off the ball 70 yards forward/backwards and 50 yards left/right. Tom Cairney main skill is on the ball and pinging the ball around wherever will cause most trouble, as for covering ground off the ball he is lucky to cover half what Periera covers. If Marco Silva plays Tom Cairney he needs to play him in different position, use different tactics or when the other team sits back in double bus low block.
You're getting blown out Piri lol
Quote from: Twig on August 16, 2022, 10:02:15 AM
Quote from: ex-Pat on August 15, 2022, 06:16:44 PM
Why on earth is anyone including Cairney in any kind of a line up, how come not one team comes in for the great competing aggressive midfielder ?
Lol I wondered how long it would take him. This is the same guy that argued Mitro was a waste of space. No idea!
WOW you have a good memory. That has to be the funniest post ever
Quote from: blingo on August 18, 2022, 01:10:42 PM
You're getting blown out Piri lol
Hardly Bongo
Remember when he came back from injury last season when he was reintroduced into the team and he came on and scored a cracker, that must of hurt you deep inside !!!
I guarantee he'll prove himself again this season
I'd be willing to put a wager on it ?
Quote from: perry geyton on August 18, 2022, 04:18:36 PM
Quote from: blingo on August 18, 2022, 01:10:42 PM
You're getting blown out Piri lol
Hardly Bongo
Remember when he came back from injury last season when he was reintroduced into the team and he came on and scored a cracker, that must of hurt you deep inside !!!
I guarantee he'll prove himself again this season
I'd be willing to put a wager on it ?
094.gif
Quote from: perry geyton on August 18, 2022, 04:18:36 PM
Quote from: blingo on August 18, 2022, 01:10:42 PM
You're getting blown out Piri lol
Hardly Bongo
Remember when he came back from injury last season when he was reintroduced into the team and he came on and scored a cracker, that must of hurt you deep inside !!!
I guarantee he'll prove himself again this season
I'd be willing to put a wager on it ?
Yes because we're going to play a lot of teams of Cardiffs level this season. We have to press from the front, something TC can't do.
Quote from: KebanOMG on August 18, 2022, 05:28:40 PM
We have to press from the front, something TC can't do.
Sums up many of the responses in this thread, e.g. mine.
Does that mean one is writing him off, so he has to make us eat words etc?
No. Even now, he has creative talents above most in the squad.
Just don't expect to see them for 90 minutes too often for a mixture of Silva's Plan A and TC's own stamina/engine limitations. The first is a matter of coaching taste; the second is frankly just life.
I'll have a ten pence bet with you Piri.
Quote from: blingo on August 18, 2022, 10:14:56 PM
I'll have a ten pence bet with you Piri.
I want evidence of it bongo before I take on that bet
TC game changer
The minute he came on that pitch we turned it around
I'll send you my bank details bongo for the money wire
It's definitely just you. Pereira MOTM, cairney now a 15 minute player
Pereira superb attacking display
