When we discussed the ratings for how good this window was, I, among others declared it was an alright window. Good, but not great. Indicating what happens to our midfield if we got injury to one of our starters. It got some derision, some support, but overall, I felt like it was painted over. But we're kind of seeing it now. Had we brought in someone like Aouar, we wouldn't be scrambling (pending further injury) having to pick a side to slot in Cairney, or regrettably, playing Chalo. It was the obvious weakness in the squad/starting 11 and I don't think a lot of posters appreciated this enough.
I think a poster whose sticking his neck out today also said maybe he trusts Chalo hence why we didn't break the bank to provide Silva with this player. If true, it shows we have a very good manager, albeit capable of glaring mistakes. That's not a criticism of Silva really, selecting him was a mistake, signing him was a mistake and I'd wager he was a Silva signing rather than a player thrust on him. If we want to push on and stay in this league, we need to identify and remedy this issue sooner, rather than later. This isn't an overreaction to today, a dreadful display and result, but just showing that often, even us arm chair supporters can spot and highlight things.
In Silva we trust but please let Chalo go now and bring in someone with the skill set and temperament we/you need.
This was more of a selection issue than a transfer issue. I don't disagree that we are light in midfield, but Cairney is available and Reed is a more than capable DM. In all honesty I would have preferred Onomah to Chalo as well.
Quote from: MayoDomo on October 01, 2022, 04:36:21 PM
This was more of a selection issue than a transfer issue. I don't disagree that we are light in midfield, but Cairney is available and Reed is a more than capable DM. In all honesty I would have preferred Onomah to Chalo as well.
Interesting take. I agree today with a tweak to the selection was avoidable perhaps, But I stand by the fact in recruiting, we left ourselves exposed here.
Onomah is terrible and chalo isn't much better. Who else could we have selected today?! Lack of midfield depth has cost us, but let's move on. Every promoted team is going to have days like today.
As mentioned, would of played Reed deep, Pereria just in front of him with Cairney further up top. Cairney has the creativity, but not the press. Chalo just has nothing in that fundimentally important role in DM.
We should have signed a Centre midfielder and a proper backup left back
Quote from: DannyM on October 01, 2022, 04:42:55 PM
Onomah is terrible and chalo isn't much better. Who else could we have selected today?! Lack of midfield depth has cost us, but let's move on. Every promoted team is going to have days like today.
Well said!
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 01, 2022, 04:45:25 PM
As mentioned, would of played Reed deep, Pereria just in front of him with Cairney further up top. Cairney has the creativity, but not the press. Chalo just has nothing in that fundimentally important role in DM.
Absolutely this is what we should have done. Chalo is nowhere near Prem quality, he wasn't even close to top Champ quality.
Sadly given the defensive inabilities of our reserves for LB and RB I doubt we could ever have got anything from this match. Frankly we let in too many goals with our preferred back four, but the minute we have to use our squad depth we look so very vulnerable at the back.
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 01, 2022, 04:04:53 PM
When we discussed the ratings for how good this window was, I, among others declared it was an alright window. Good, but not great. Indicating what happens to our midfield if we got injury to one of our starters. It got some derision, some support, but overall, I felt like it was painted over. But we're kind of seeing it now. Had we brought in someone like Aouar, we wouldn't be scrambling (pending further injury) having to pick a side to slot in Cairney, or regrettably, playing Chalo. It was the obvious weakness in the squad/starting 11 and I don't think a lot of posters appreciated this enough.
I think a poster whose sticking his neck out today also said maybe he trusts Chalo hence why we didn't break the bank to provide Silva with this player. If true, it shows we have a very good manager, albeit capable of glaring mistakes. That's not a criticism of Silva really, selecting him was a mistake, signing him was a mistake and I'd wager he was a Silva signing rather than a player thrust on him. If we want to push on and stay in this league, we need to identify and remedy this issue sooner, rather than later. This isn't an overreaction to today, a dreadful display and result, but just showing that often, even us arm chair supporters can spot and highlight things.
In Silva we trust but please let Chalo go now and bring in someone with the skill set and temperament we/you need.
Can't speak for the other posters but I for one have been very vocal for a long time that we needed to upgrade on Chalobah and move him on. We're seeing why Watford let him leave on a free.
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on October 01, 2022, 05:26:14 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 01, 2022, 04:04:53 PM
When we discussed the ratings for how good this window was, I, among others declared it was an alright window. Good, but not great. Indicating what happens to our midfield if we got injury to one of our starters. It got some derision, some support, but overall, I felt like it was painted over. But we're kind of seeing it now. Had we brought in someone like Aouar, we wouldn't be scrambling (pending further injury) having to pick a side to slot in Cairney, or regrettably, playing Chalo. It was the obvious weakness in the squad/starting 11 and I don't think a lot of posters appreciated this enough.
I think a poster whose sticking his neck out today also said maybe he trusts Chalo hence why we didn't break the bank to provide Silva with this player. If true, it shows we have a very good manager, albeit capable of glaring mistakes. That's not a criticism of Silva really, selecting him was a mistake, signing him was a mistake and I'd wager he was a Silva signing rather than a player thrust on him. If we want to push on and stay in this league, we need to identify and remedy this issue sooner, rather than later. This isn't an overreaction to today, a dreadful display and result, but just showing that often, even us arm chair supporters can spot and highlight things.
In Silva we trust but please let Chalo go now and bring in someone with the skill set and temperament we/you need.
Can't speak for the other posters but I for one have been very vocal for a long time that we needed to upgrade on Chalobah and move him on. We're seeing why Watford let him leave on a free.
Yep agreed.
Today is just one of those things. Yeah it has further highlighted that the one player who would really upgrade the first team is another high quality midfielder, but we had 5 or 6 first team players injured or unavailable in Tete, Robinson, Wilson, Willian, Soloman and Palhinha.
You're in a Forest type situation with of a load of players who don't know how to play together, and then that is exacerbated by the idiotic red in the 5th minute, and an unfit Mitro.
To be clear, I definitely don't think Chalobah is good enough, wouldn't have played him today and would really like an upgrade - but it did seem the priority for Silva at the end of the window was bringing in attacking players to get us through the first phase of the season.
Cairney should have started today he was pretty sharp the time he was on .I ve not had the pleasure of seeing slowmo on the foul but have heard it was worth a sending off . For me the only positive today is chalobah can't play for at least 3 games .
Surely can't see Chalaboah starting ever again
Tackle was right in front of me and should have been a double red
No Sunday league player would have steamed in like that, it was a brain dead decision
We were very lucky not to have been absolutely smashed out of sight today
As everyone has now realised, signing about 8 wingers without backup defensive midfielder cover has been mad
bobbo. Well said thankfully he will miss at least three games and never play for us again.
Perhaps predictably that the French left back would get injured in his first game.
Quote from: Baszab on October 01, 2022, 06:41:08 PM
Surely can't see Chalaboah starting ever again
Tackle was right in front of me and should have been a double red
No Sunday league player would have steamed in like that, it was a brain dead decision
We were very lucky not to have been absolutely smashed out of sight today
As everyone has now realised, signing about 8 wingers without backup defensive midfielder cover has been mad
I was there too in the Hammy End and I couldn't believe that he initially seemed to get away with a yellow. It was a horrible, stupid, unnecessary foul and fully deserving of a red card. A completely brain dead numpty who should never play another minute for Fulham ever again.
Don't want to see that waste of space playing for us again.
Quote from: Twig on October 01, 2022, 07:36:33 PM
Quote from: Baszab on October 01, 2022, 06:41:08 PM
Surely can't see Chalaboah starting ever again
Tackle was right in front of me and should have been a double red
No Sunday league player would have steamed in like that, it was a brain dead decision
We were very lucky not to have been absolutely smashed out of sight today
As everyone has now realised, signing about 8 wingers without backup defensive midfielder cover has been mad
I was there too in the Hammy End and I couldn't believe that he initially seemed to get away with a yellow. It was a horrible, stupid, unnecessary foul and fully deserving of a red card. A completely brain dead numpty who should never play another minute for Fulham ever again.
He wasn't good enough to play in a championship team, how the heck did he get picked ahead of Tom.
He should never get the chance to pull on the shirt again.
A very, very bad day at the office.
Well having read most that's been posted since 5pm I'm thinking we ( that all who want chalobah gone ) can't all be wrong . We may not have all the qualifications , coaching badges etc , but there's many old experienced heads ( me for one ) behind the anti chalobah comments tonight.
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 01, 2022, 04:04:53 PM
When we discussed the ratings for how good this window was, I, among others declared it was an alright window. Good, but not great. Indicating what happens to our midfield if we got injury to one of our starters. It got some derision, some support, but overall, I felt like it was painted over. But we're kind of seeing it now. Had we brought in someone like Aouar, we wouldn't be scrambling (pending further injury) having to pick a side to slot in Cairney, or regrettably, playing Chalo. It was the obvious weakness in the squad/starting 11 and I don't think a lot of posters appreciated this enough.
I think a poster whose sticking his neck out today also said maybe he trusts Chalo hence why we didn't break the bank to provide Silva with this player. If true, it shows we have a very good manager, albeit capable of glaring mistakes. That's not a criticism of Silva really, selecting him was a mistake, signing him was a mistake and I'd wager he was a Silva signing rather than a player thrust on him. If we want to push on and stay in this league, we need to identify and remedy this issue sooner, rather than later. This isn't an overreaction to today, a dreadful display and result, but just showing that often, even us arm chair supporters can spot and highlight things.
In Silva we trust but please let Chalo go now and bring in someone with the skill set and temperament we/you need.
It didn't get painted over really.
Literally everyone on here agreed that the one main downside of the window was CDM cover...
Still think it was a great window witbout being utterly perfect....teams been massively competitive. But yeh...CDM light when we lose Palhinha...that said , as many others pointed out, we could play cairney or periera there and it'd be better than chalobah.
P.s without wanting to stir when others post in vindication of their opinion you jump to say ...is this the time to say told you say...but when you do (albeit after a loss) 8t's fine. Not saying ya shouldn't, just find it interesting. .
First off Jay, that wasn't true. Posters were openly ridiculed for suggesting anything other than 9/10 and calling the window incredible was deemed to be too pessimistic by a handful of posters. I think the window was good, albeit as called out at the timeC this decision either intentional or circumstantial to not being in a midfielder. I've highlighted it here to show that perhaps, this was why we felt the way we did. Can't remember who, but someone did say maybe it was Silvas decision as he believes in Chalo. Could well be true on his insistence to include and start him where possible.
Secondly, as I told you at the time, this has been posted after a loss which to my opinion, has highlighted a key weakness in our squad to which some, and some did unlike what you've said here, did say was overly cautious and pessimistic and a CM wasn't needed. This wasn't after a lovely victory where we're pretty much all happy, posting on to the board to rub a few posters in it. Very different scenarios. This post was more about suggesting we need to address it in January and it's clearly as issue, rather than pointing at specific posters as it's actually constructive. Not merely going 'we won, what ya worried about hey!' Which as I also said at the time, was too soon to really say.
The most important thing right now is how well this squad can do in October. It's a really important month and I thought a draw from this would of been a great result to be honest. Setting us up nicely for games with lots of potential points. Now. Not really sure what to expect and I'm much less confident than I was prior.
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 12:10:28 AM
First off Jay, that wasn't true. Posters were openly ridiculed for suggesting anything other than 9/10 and calling the window incredible was deemed to be too pessimistic by a handful of posters. I think the window was good, albeit as called out at the timeC this decision either intentional or circumstantial to not being in a midfielder. I've highlighted it here to show that perhaps, this was why we felt the way we did. Can't remember who, but someone did say maybe it was Silvas decision as he believes in Chalo. Could well be true on his insistence to include and start him where possible.
Secondly, as I told you at the time, this has been posted after a loss which to my opinion, has highlighted a key weakness in our squad to which some, and some did unlike what you've said here, did say was overly cautious and pessimistic and a CM wasn't needed. This wasn't after a lovely victory where we're pretty much all happy, posting on to the board to rub a few posters in it. Very different scenarios. This post was more about suggesting we need to address it in January and it's clearly as issue, rather than pointing at specific posters as it's actually constructive. Not merely going 'we won, what ya worried about hey!' Which as I also said at the time, was too soon to really say.
The most important thing right now is how well this squad can do in October. It's a really important month and I thought a draw from this would of been a great result to be honest. Setting us up nicely for games with lots of potential points. Now. Not really sure what to expect and I'm much less confident than I was prior.
Well agree to disagree that its ultimately driven by the same thing however its dressed after a win or loss. One is justiying a previous positive opinion...so naturally would proceed a win...the other justifying a negative opinion - so naturally would proceed a loss ....I just patently disagree with the psychology behind it being much different but ya welcome to see it differently.
Anyway, I dont recall anyone ridiculing anyone for rating it less than a 9...people were saying it was wild that people were rating it a 5 and below as I remembe...we even had a 4. Perhaps 1 person said something different but not that I recall.
Anyway...its one result in a game we went down to ten men in minute 4...really think people are going overboard here in Reading too much into this.
Tete Palhinha and Robinson back and were unsuprisingly a better team. Were above Liverpool in 8th and with plenty going for us Mitro is my main concern really, a key figure and hope he's he's not out for long...
Wilson back, Solomon to come....yeh an extra DM in Jan would be nice but plenty confident and today doesn't change that for me. One positive i hope is that it signals the end for Chalobah for me
Quote from: MayoDomo on October 01, 2022, 04:36:21 PM
This was more of a selection issue than a transfer issue. I don't disagree that we are light in midfield, but Cairney is available and Reed is a more than capable DM. In all honesty I would have preferred Onomah to Chalo as well.
Agreed Marco had options, just made the wrong ones
Kurzawa, Mbabu and Chalobah should be good enough cover at this level. Why all 3 were awful yesterday needs to be worked out in training.
Chalobah wasn't good enough the Championship imo. So not surprised about yesterday.
On the plus side it was not that costly a week pointwise, as the teams who will be around us at the end of the season, didn't make much on us.
8th spot at this time of the season is better than I expected.
We just have to hope the injuries aren't too bad and regroup for next week.
COYW!
Was the window a success ?
Eleven players signed, Palhina,Leno and maybe Periera have so far proved their worth , until yesterday we had mainly relied on last season's players with good result.
Quote from: perry geyton on October 02, 2022, 01:36:36 AM
Quote from: MayoDomo on October 01, 2022, 04:36:21 PM
This was more of a selection issue than a transfer issue. I don't disagree that we are light in midfield, but Cairney is available and Reed is a more than capable DM. In all honesty I would have preferred Onomah to Chalo as well.
Agreed Marco had options, just made the wrong ones
He made what he thought was the correct one at the time, as it often gets said, we do not see them in training, Chalobah may well have been the better option, but he made a tackle that changed the game plan. If Palhinha had not got stupidly booked last game knowing he would be suspended, the need to play Chalobah would not have been needed.
Quote from: jayffc on October 02, 2022, 12:52:13 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 12:10:28 AM
First off Jay, that wasn't true. Posters were openly ridiculed for suggesting anything other than 9/10 and calling the window incredible was deemed to be too pessimistic by a handful of posters. I think the window was good, albeit as called out at the timeC this decision either intentional or circumstantial to not being in a midfielder. I've highlighted it here to show that perhaps, this was why we felt the way we did. Can't remember who, but someone did say maybe it was Silvas decision as he believes in Chalo. Could well be true on his insistence to include and start him where possible.
Secondly, as I told you at the time, this has been posted after a loss which to my opinion, has highlighted a key weakness in our squad to which some, and some did unlike what you've said here, did say was overly cautious and pessimistic and a CM wasn't needed. This wasn't after a lovely victory where we're pretty much all happy, posting on to the board to rub a few posters in it. Very different scenarios. This post was more about suggesting we need to address it in January and it's clearly as issue, rather than pointing at specific posters as it's actually constructive. Not merely going 'we won, what ya worried about hey!' Which as I also said at the time, was too soon to really say.
The most important thing right now is how well this squad can do in October. It's a really important month and I thought a draw from this would of been a great result to be honest. Setting us up nicely for games with lots of potential points. Now. Not really sure what to expect and I'm much less confident than I was prior.
Well agree to disagree that its ultimately driven by the same thing however its dressed after a win or loss. One is justiying a previous positive opinion...so naturally would proceed a win...the other justifying a negative opinion - so naturally would proceed a loss ....I just patently disagree with the psychology behind it being much different but ya welcome to see it differently.
Anyway, I dont recall anyone ridiculing anyone for rating it less than a 9...people were saying it was wild that people were rating it a 5 and below as I remembe...we even had a 4. Perhaps 1 person said something different but not that I recall.
Anyway...its one result in a game we went down to ten men in minute 4...really think people are going overboard here in Reading too much into this.
Tete Palhinha and Robinson back and were unsuprisingly a better team. Were above Liverpool in 8th and with plenty going for us Mitro is my main concern really, a key figure and hope he's he's not out for long...
Wilson back, Solomon to come....yeh an extra DM in Jan would be nice but plenty confident and today doesn't change that for me. One positive i hope is that it signals the end for Chalobah for me
Sure, agree to disagree. I can say with confidence that people who put a 7/10 had laugh emoji's and a small amount of ridicule and 'entitled' fans put their way on social media as well as on here. As for 'psychology behind it being much different', its literally the reverse. Coming on to post along the lines of 'hey, what were ya worried about' is far less constructive and timely, coming on to the board when everyone is pretty much happy to dampen a few peoples days, is very different to say, pointing out a clear squad deficiency on a day that deficiency was plain to see. I'm not here to take away anyone's enjoyment from a 4.1 home loss to Newcastle, there wasn't any, whereas trying to do so when people are elated with a home win to Brighton (or Brentford, I can't quite recall) shows a clearly different tact hence calling you out at the time.
As for overboard, this is the thing for me. Posters like yourself say that, and its painting over the real issue. And it is painting over it. We just lost 4.1 at home to Newcastle, a team prior who hadn't won a game in 6 attempts prior to playing Forest. If we get an injury to Palinha or even Pereria, we are in serious trouble. Even when you get all those other injuries back fit, we simply don't have the depth in that middle which posters like myself, strongly highlighted during and post window. One of those glaringly obvious observations that just wasn't addressed.
I'm still positive as long as we remain injury free to those two players. If we do suffer an injury to them for a lengthy period of time, I'd be more confident that we get relegated without reinforcements in January than I would otherwise. It's highlighted and I hope we can agree, that the squad depth is the real issue here, not our starting 11 who for the most part, have been superb. Chalobah needs to go to championship and prove himself now and as you sayk, hopefully that's the nail in the coffin. Silva looked quite rightly royally p*ssed with that tackle even though he tried deflecting blame after the match.
Squad strength or otherwise is only clear when injuries and/or suspensions hit. Our first team looks as good if not better than any for some time. It's the back up which worries. Bryan was in my opinion the best replacement left back available to us. He is now at Nice. TC has been mysteriously sidelined. I suspect nearly all the fans would have played him instead of Chalobah yesterday. When we are missing defenders where is Denis? He's playing champions league and going to the World Cup. Muniz for whom the club paid a substantial fee is put on loan, as is Stansfield.
Let's hope we can get some players fit quickly or this could go pear shaped.
Quote from: alfie on October 02, 2022, 11:05:16 AM
Quote from: perry geyton on October 02, 2022, 01:36:36 AM
Quote from: MayoDomo on October 01, 2022, 04:36:21 PM
This was more of a selection issue than a transfer issue. I don't disagree that we are light in midfield, but Cairney is available and Reed is a more than capable DM. In all honesty I would have preferred Onomah to Chalo as well.
Agreed Marco had options, just made the wrong ones
He made what he thought was the correct one at the time, as it often gets said, we do not see them in training, Chalobah may well have been the better option, but he made a tackle that changed the game plan. If Palhinha had not got stupidly booked last game knowing he would be suspended, the need to play Chalobah would not have been needed.
Agree, just a simple yellow card can have the butterfly effect in subsequent games.
Marco is in the hot seat, an experienced guy, and is the best positioned to determine the right starting line up than any of us. Not that he doesn't make mistakes, but Chalobah's tackle was not really in his character and he made a dreadful mistake, perhaps he was trying too hard to impress. Personally, I don't see how we can bring Marco's decision-making into queston on this, but we all have opinions.
Quote from: Logicalman on October 02, 2022, 12:20:53 PM
Quote from: alfie on October 02, 2022, 11:05:16 AM
Quote from: perry geyton on October 02, 2022, 01:36:36 AM
Quote from: MayoDomo on October 01, 2022, 04:36:21 PM
This was more of a selection issue than a transfer issue. I don't disagree that we are light in midfield, but Cairney is available and Reed is a more than capable DM. In all honesty I would have preferred Onomah to Chalo as well.
Agreed Marco had options, just made the wrong ones
He made what he thought was the correct one at the time, as it often gets said, we do not see them in training, Chalobah may well have been the better option, but he made a tackle that changed the game plan. If Palhinha had not got stupidly booked last game knowing he would be suspended, the need to play Chalobah would not have been needed.
Agree, just a simple yellow card can have the butterfly effect in subsequent games.
Marco is in the hot seat, an experienced guy, and is the best positioned to determine the right starting line up than any of us. Not that he doesn't make mistakes, but Chalobah's tackle was not really in his character and he made a dreadful mistake, perhaps he was trying too hard to impress. Personally, I don't see how we can bring Marco's decision-making into queston on this, but we all have opinions.
I think you'd have a point on this had the clear majority not felt like this prior to the game. Even if Chalo had made a few decent appearances at some point in his Fulham career. We don;t see training, granted, but selecting Chalo was a clear and obvious error, fleshed out with hindsight. Wrap that with every other appearance he's made and I think its clear as day why the majority of fans were completely deflated when they saw that lineup. It wasn't just Chalo that gave that effect, missing both fullbacks was a huge blow too, but Chalo starting was icing on the cake. A sending off in the first 10 minutes was the cherry on top for evidence against this decision. It was a bad one. Pretending this was a VAR issue rather than a selection decision issue is probably the first time I've watched Silva in a post/Pre match interview, and been left disappointed with him.
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 12:29:16 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on October 02, 2022, 12:20:53 PM
Quote from: alfie on October 02, 2022, 11:05:16 AM
Quote from: perry geyton on October 02, 2022, 01:36:36 AM
Quote from: MayoDomo on October 01, 2022, 04:36:21 PM
This was more of a selection issue than a transfer issue. I don't disagree that we are light in midfield, but Cairney is available and Reed is a more than capable DM. In all honesty I would have preferred Onomah to Chalo as well.
Agreed Marco had options, just made the wrong ones
He made what he thought was the correct one at the time, as it often gets said, we do not see them in training, Chalobah may well have been the better option, but he made a tackle that changed the game plan. If Palhinha had not got stupidly booked last game knowing he would be suspended, the need to play Chalobah would not have been needed.
Agree, just a simple yellow card can have the butterfly effect in subsequent games.
Marco is in the hot seat, an experienced guy, and is the best positioned to determine the right starting line up than any of us. Not that he doesn't make mistakes, but Chalobah's tackle was not really in his character and he made a dreadful mistake, perhaps he was trying too hard to impress. Personally, I don't see how we can bring Marco's decision-making into queston on this, but we all have opinions.
I think you'd have a point on this had the clear majority not felt like this prior to the game. Even if Chalo had made a few decent appearances at some point in his Fulham career. We don;t see training, granted, but selecting Chalo was a clear and obvious error, fleshed out with hindsight. Wrap that with every other appearance he's made and I think its clear as day why the majority of fans were completely deflated when they saw that lineup. It wasn't just Chalo that gave that effect, missing both fullbacks was a huge blow too, but Chalo starting was icing on the cake. A sending off in the first 10 minutes was the cherry on top for evidence against this decision. It was a bad one. Pretending this was a VAR issue rather than a selection decision issue is probably the first time I've watched Silva in a post/Pre match interview, and been left disappointed with him.
I'm not going to disagree with all the points you made at all. I wouldn't say this was a VAR issue tbh, I think, had the ref seen the tackle clearly first time, it would have been a straight red, I feel Marco was incorrect in his assessment about not being consistent, giving the red was fully consistent with a previous decision made just an hour earlier, though tbf he was unlikely to have been aware of that when he made those comments.
as for Chalobah and his abilities, he might not have impressed in the past, but he obviously (?) made the right impression during the recent training sessions and Marco felt he fitted into his tactics for this game. I really didn't see it as an issue pre-game, but that's why I'm not a manager/coach, I just look after DBs all day! :022:
Marco Silva selected what he believed was his best eleven from the 'fit' squad he was left with. He wasn't to know, any more so than Chalobah would have known, what was to happen very early in a game where the team would notably suffer from lack of experience together even if everything else went as planned. And the cherry on the cake is the only people who could have predicted what happened yesterday would either be gods or a part of some massive and complex conspiracy which is so good nobody sees the subtle evidence of what is really going on.
The connection between yesterday and the transfer window is fictitious because nobody could have predicted we would have the injuries and suspensions we had, not the Khans, not the head coach, and most of all, none of us. For sure we could/should have more depth but the fact is we do not have the versatility of central midfielders who can double up as something else. As Silva remarked it his job to find solutions if he can and we are left with no idea what the outcome might have been had Chalobah not been sent off.
Perhaps we may have lost even more heavily with Chalobah on the pitch since that seems the theme elsewhere on the forum and the gods smiled upon us by having him removed so early ...
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 12:53:51 PM
Marco Silva selected what he believed was his best eleven from the 'fit' squad he was left with. He wasn't to know, any more so than Chalobah would have known, what was to happen very early in a game where the team would notably suffer from lack of experience together even if everything else went as planned. And the cherry on the cake is the only people who could have predicted what happened yesterday would either be gods or a part of some massive and complex conspiracy which is so good nobody sees the subtle evidence of what is really going on.
The connection between yesterday and the transfer window is fictitious because nobody could have predicted we would have the injuries and suspensions we had, not the Khans, not the head coach, and most of all, none of us. For sure we could/should have more depth but the fact is we do not have the versatility of central midfielders who can double up as something else. As Silva remarked it his job to find solutions if he can and we are left with no idea what the outcome might have been had Chalobah not been sent off.
Perhaps we may have lost even more heavily with Chalobah on the pitch since that seems the theme elsewhere on the forum and the gods smiled upon us by having him removed so early ...
I've seen some hot takes from you before, but this one takes the cake and the cherry. If no one can predict injuries or suspensions, why do you think teams have squads exactly?
So your trying to equate someone predicting a deficiency in the squad, to yesterdays result which culminated in a player playing that most here would say is championship standard at best, (probably)costing us the game and we didn't have the squad depth to not play him, as fictitious? Based on your own frail logic, maybe the Gods gave us the weakness of our midfield squad depth to give us some adversity and test our faith.....Beer me strength.
A lot of posters would have said that using Ream as a starter this season would be a clear and obvious error. If it had actually been that clear and obvious Silva wouldn't have started Chalobah, unless you believe that Silva is either an idiot or intentionally tried to lose the game.
And the red card is only evidence that Chalobah made a poor tackle, not evidence that he was the wrong choice beforehand (unless you believe the red card was inevitable and that Silva should have known that). Or let me ask this: if Reed had gotten the red card, would that have been evidence for Silva's mistake in picking him for this game?
Was it the wrong decision to start Chalobah? With hindsight definitely. Without hindsight, perhaps but we will never really know since Chalobah made sure we never got to see if he could have some sort of positive impact (we already knew he could play poorly).
For what it's worth, I wouldn't have picked Chalobah, and I also felt somewhat deflated when I saw the lineup. I just think the criticism is not proportionate. But that is just my opinion.
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 01:04:23 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 12:53:51 PM
Marco Silva selected what he believed was his best eleven from the 'fit' squad he was left with. He wasn't to know, any more so than Chalobah would have known, what was to happen very early in a game where the team would notably suffer from lack of experience together even if everything else went as planned. And the cherry on the cake is the only people who could have predicted what happened yesterday would either be gods or a part of some massive and complex conspiracy which is so good nobody sees the subtle evidence of what is really going on.
The connection between yesterday and the transfer window is fictitious because nobody could have predicted we would have the injuries and suspensions we had, not the Khans, not the head coach, and most of all, none of us. For sure we could/should have more depth but the fact is we do not have the versatility of central midfielders who can double up as something else. As Silva remarked it his job to find solutions if he can and we are left with no idea what the outcome might have been had Chalobah not been sent off.
Perhaps we may have lost even more heavily with Chalobah on the pitch since that seems the theme elsewhere on the forum and the gods smiled upon us by having him removed so early ...
I've seen some hot takes from you before, but this one takes the cake and the cherry. If no one can predict injuries or suspensions, why do you think teams have squads exactly?
So your trying to equate someone predicting a deficiency in the squad, to yesterdays result which culminated in a player playing that most here would say is championship standard at best, (probably)costing us the game and we didn't have the squad depth to not play him, as fictitious? Based on your own frail logic, maybe the Gods gave us the weakness of our midfield squad depth to give us some adversity and test our faith.....Beer me strength.
I am amazed you are not running all of the squads in the Premier League, in fact every professional squad, you are a soothsayer, a font of all knowl;edge, predicitng what will happen with teams and individuals and having a plan for every circumstande. Rather than slagging off someone who is clealry a knowledable poster, like Toshes mate, take a breath and consider that maybe other should be allowed to have a different perspective and then be allowed to express it.
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 12:53:51 PM
Marco Silva selected what he believed was his best eleven from the 'fit' squad he was left with. He wasn't to know, any more so than Chalobah would have known, what was to happen very early in a game where the team would notably suffer from lack of experience together even if everything else went as planned. And the cherry on the cake is the only people who could have predicted what happened yesterday would either be gods or a part of some massive and complex conspiracy which is so good nobody sees the subtle evidence of what is really going on.
The connection between yesterday and the transfer window is fictitious because nobody could have predicted we would have the injuries and suspensions we had, not the Khans, not the head coach, and most of all, none of us. For sure we could/should have more depth but the fact is we do not have the versatility of central midfielders who can double up as something else. As Silva remarked it his job to find solutions if he can and we are left with no idea what the outcome might have been had Chalobah not been sent off.
Perhaps we may have lost even more heavily with Chalobah on the pitch since that seems the theme elsewhere on the forum and the gods smiled upon us by having him removed so early ...
Agree, well said.
Quote from: Hugh Gentry on October 02, 2022, 01:18:30 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 01:04:23 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 12:53:51 PM
Marco Silva selected what he believed was his best eleven from the 'fit' squad he was left with. He wasn't to know, any more so than Chalobah would have known, what was to happen very early in a game where the team would notably suffer from lack of experience together even if everything else went as planned. And the cherry on the cake is the only people who could have predicted what happened yesterday would either be gods or a part of some massive and complex conspiracy which is so good nobody sees the subtle evidence of what is really going on.
The connection between yesterday and the transfer window is fictitious because nobody could have predicted we would have the injuries and suspensions we had, not the Khans, not the head coach, and most of all, none of us. For sure we could/should have more depth but the fact is we do not have the versatility of central midfielders who can double up as something else. As Silva remarked it his job to find solutions if he can and we are left with no idea what the outcome might have been had Chalobah not been sent off.
Perhaps we may have lost even more heavily with Chalobah on the pitch since that seems the theme elsewhere on the forum and the gods smiled upon us by having him removed so early ...
I've seen some hot takes from you before, but this one takes the cake and the cherry. If no one can predict injuries or suspensions, why do you think teams have squads exactly?
So your trying to equate someone predicting a deficiency in the squad, to yesterdays result which culminated in a player playing that most here would say is championship standard at best, (probably)costing us the game and we didn't have the squad depth to not play him, as fictitious? Based on your own frail logic, maybe the Gods gave us the weakness of our midfield squad depth to give us some adversity and test our faith.....Beer me strength.
I am amazed you are not running all of the squads in the Premier League, in fact every professional squad, you are a soothsayer, a font of all knowl;edge, predicitng what will happen with teams and individuals and having a plan for every circumstande. Rather than slagging off someone who is clealry a knowledable poster, like Toshes mate, take a breath and consider that maybe other should be allowed to have a different perspective and then be allowed to express it.
Case and point Jay. Here's one of the posters showing exactly what I was talking about. Even with every metric of evidence in front of him, still leans on pathetic arguments from authority points rather than discussing the subject argument at hand.
As for SoTN's point, you make a good point. I did mention to I believe Sommerset before the game, I'd love some Ream humble pie on Chalo, but they're very different calibres of player aren't they. Ream was rightly questioned on his ability to perform in the Prem, something historically, without context, has struggled. But with the right manager and team around him has flourished. An argument could be made, maybe with the right setup, Chalo could of, sure, but as he hasn't shown in in full strength teams in the championship, in cup matches against lower league opposition, its a much harder point to see IMO. Valid no less, so fair point. Each to their own in regards to the criticism. This specific post was more about the lack of depth we have in the middle than slinging mud at Silva or Chalo though. Hope that makes a little more sense.
This one did make me giggle a bit ...
(https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/309669267_10166396170120153_2323790541716914666_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=gDKQXJkuxB0AX--m_Lm&tn=fpKM-Sz2SpDhb1SX&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AT_XEZVnEprENjPwd7-3zY9tGI2WqMSw87z1OoH7r79y0g&oe=633DA913)
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 01:04:23 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 12:53:51 PM
Marco Silva selected what he believed was his best eleven from the 'fit' squad he was left with. He wasn't to know, any more so than Chalobah would have known, what was to happen very early in a game where the team would notably suffer from lack of experience together even if everything else went as planned. And the cherry on the cake is the only people who could have predicted what happened yesterday would either be gods or a part of some massive and complex conspiracy which is so good nobody sees the subtle evidence of what is really going on.
The connection between yesterday and the transfer window is fictitious because nobody could have predicted we would have the injuries and suspensions we had, not the Khans, not the head coach, and most of all, none of us. For sure we could/should have more depth but the fact is we do not have the versatility of central midfielders who can double up as something else. As Silva remarked it his job to find solutions if he can and we are left with no idea what the outcome might have been had Chalobah not been sent off.
Perhaps we may have lost even more heavily with Chalobah on the pitch since that seems the theme elsewhere on the forum and the gods smiled upon us by having him removed so early ...
I've seen some hot takes from you before, but this one takes the cake and the cherry. If no one can predict injuries or suspensions, why do you think teams have squads exactly?
So your trying to equate someone predicting a deficiency in the squad, to yesterdays result which culminated in a player playing that most here would say is championship standard at best, (probably)costing us the game and we didn't have the squad depth to not play him, as fictitious? Based on your own frail logic, maybe the Gods gave us the weakness of our midfield squad depth to give us some adversity and test our faith.....Beer me strength.
Back in the days... football clubs had two teams - first and reserves - precisely because you cannot predict from eleven players that they will bed in together nicely, always be fit and well, and always be on best form. Then came the subtleties of substitution and so the squads jumped up in size offering not just replacements for in game knocks and injuries but replacements for tactical (or technical) nuances. And, of course, since we are all so brilliant at prediction, teams have their 'cost a lot but rubbish fit'. Nobody can ever be satisfied with their lot as long as they can predict it could be better, and of course it can always be better - that is true in all competitive sport - world cup winners all the way down to toddlers' leagues.
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 02:05:39 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 01:04:23 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 12:53:51 PM
Marco Silva selected what he believed was his best eleven from the 'fit' squad he was left with. He wasn't to know, any more so than Chalobah would have known, what was to happen very early in a game where the team would notably suffer from lack of experience together even if everything else went as planned. And the cherry on the cake is the only people who could have predicted what happened yesterday would either be gods or a part of some massive and complex conspiracy which is so good nobody sees the subtle evidence of what is really going on.
The connection between yesterday and the transfer window is fictitious because nobody could have predicted we would have the injuries and suspensions we had, not the Khans, not the head coach, and most of all, none of us. For sure we could/should have more depth but the fact is we do not have the versatility of central midfielders who can double up as something else. As Silva remarked it his job to find solutions if he can and we are left with no idea what the outcome might have been had Chalobah not been sent off.
Perhaps we may have lost even more heavily with Chalobah on the pitch since that seems the theme elsewhere on the forum and the gods smiled upon us by having him removed so early ...
I've seen some hot takes from you before, but this one takes the cake and the cherry. If no one can predict injuries or suspensions, why do you think teams have squads exactly?
So your trying to equate someone predicting a deficiency in the squad, to yesterdays result which culminated in a player playing that most here would say is championship standard at best, (probably)costing us the game and we didn't have the squad depth to not play him, as fictitious? Based on your own frail logic, maybe the Gods gave us the weakness of our midfield squad depth to give us some adversity and test our faith.....Beer me strength.
Back in the days... football clubs had two teams - first and reserves - precisely because you cannot predict from eleven players that they will bed in together nicely, always be fit and well, and always be on best form. Then came the subtleties of substitution and so the squads jumped up in size offering not just replacements for in game knocks and injuries but replacements for tactical (or technical) nuances. And, of course, since we are all so brilliant at prediction, teams have their 'cost a lot but rubbish fit'. Nobody can ever be satisfied with their lot as long as they can predict it could be better, and of course it can always be better - that is true in all competitive sport - world cup winners all the way down to toddlers' leagues.
Sure, but can you see that we don't have the squad depth in the middle? Something not only said at the time by Silva no less, but also by posters on here that we didn't bring in? I thought it was painfully obvious before this game, let alone in it, something you seem to think is fictitious?
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 02:23:19 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 02:05:39 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 01:04:23 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 12:53:51 PM
Marco Silva selected what he believed was his best eleven from the 'fit' squad he was left with. He wasn't to know, any more so than Chalobah would have known, what was to happen very early in a game where the team would notably suffer from lack of experience together even if everything else went as planned. And the cherry on the cake is the only people who could have predicted what happened yesterday would either be gods or a part of some massive and complex conspiracy which is so good nobody sees the subtle evidence of what is really going on.
The connection between yesterday and the transfer window is fictitious because nobody could have predicted we would have the injuries and suspensions we had, not the Khans, not the head coach, and most of all, none of us. For sure we could/should have more depth but the fact is we do not have the versatility of central midfielders who can double up as something else. As Silva remarked it his job to find solutions if he can and we are left with no idea what the outcome might have been had Chalobah not been sent off.
Perhaps we may have lost even more heavily with Chalobah on the pitch since that seems the theme elsewhere on the forum and the gods smiled upon us by having him removed so early ...
I've seen some hot takes from you before, but this one takes the cake and the cherry. If no one can predict injuries or suspensions, why do you think teams have squads exactly?
So your trying to equate someone predicting a deficiency in the squad, to yesterdays result which culminated in a player playing that most here would say is championship standard at best, (probably)costing us the game and we didn't have the squad depth to not play him, as fictitious? Based on your own frail logic, maybe the Gods gave us the weakness of our midfield squad depth to give us some adversity and test our faith.....Beer me strength.
Back in the days... football clubs had two teams - first and reserves - precisely because you cannot predict from eleven players that they will bed in together nicely, always be fit and well, and always be on best form. Then came the subtleties of substitution and so the squads jumped up in size offering not just replacements for in game knocks and injuries but replacements for tactical (or technical) nuances. And, of course, since we are all so brilliant at prediction, teams have their 'cost a lot but rubbish fit'. Nobody can ever be satisfied with their lot as long as they can predict it could be better, and of course it can always be better - that is true in all competitive sport - world cup winners all the way down to toddlers' leagues.
Sure, but can you see that we don't have the squad depth in the middle? Something not only said at the time by Silva no less, but also by posters on here that we didn't bring in? I thought it was painfully obvious before this game, let alone in it, something you seem to think is fictitious?
Your weaknesses in argument are too obvious and you should, if in doubt, check that you know what your fellow FoF'ers are about.
I was one of the first people to not complain about Ream in defence in the PL, my argument being the obvious flaws in midfield which have an effect at both ends of the pitch something the eminently qualified Parker seemed to know nothing about when he sidelined Ream when midfielders were the chief cuprits for many of our goals against. I claim no prescience but just a logical appreciation of what football is really about. My thought process was - strengthen midfield and the defence will become better, and, as an extra bonus, we will score more goals too.
Wanting players and getting them are two different things and nobody can predict that players will get yellow cards or red cards except when it happens - it cannot be reckoned until it happens and even then what does a coach do if one of his players is constantly being booked? You can try the old trick of not playing them but it comes with flaws or you try to manage them. What do you do if a player has a niggling injury which flares up every now and again? Again don't play them and suffer the flaws or manage the problem.
Marco Silva is trying to find solutions to our current problem because he knows the best times without injuries or suspensions may be sometime away. He'll not be predicting anything because he is a professional ...
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 03:11:13 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 02:23:19 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 02:05:39 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 01:04:23 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 12:53:51 PM
Marco Silva selected what he believed was his best eleven from the 'fit' squad he was left with. He wasn't to know, any more so than Chalobah would have known, what was to happen very early in a game where the team would notably suffer from lack of experience together even if everything else went as planned. And the cherry on the cake is the only people who could have predicted what happened yesterday would either be gods or a part of some massive and complex conspiracy which is so good nobody sees the subtle evidence of what is really going on.
The connection between yesterday and the transfer window is fictitious because nobody could have predicted we would have the injuries and suspensions we had, not the Khans, not the head coach, and most of all, none of us. For sure we could/should have more depth but the fact is we do not have the versatility of central midfielders who can double up as something else. As Silva remarked it his job to find solutions if he can and we are left with no idea what the outcome might have been had Chalobah not been sent off.
Perhaps we may have lost even more heavily with Chalobah on the pitch since that seems the theme elsewhere on the forum and the gods smiled upon us by having him removed so early ...
I've seen some hot takes from you before, but this one takes the cake and the cherry. If no one can predict injuries or suspensions, why do you think teams have squads exactly?
So your trying to equate someone predicting a deficiency in the squad, to yesterdays result which culminated in a player playing that most here would say is championship standard at best, (probably)costing us the game and we didn't have the squad depth to not play him, as fictitious? Based on your own frail logic, maybe the Gods gave us the weakness of our midfield squad depth to give us some adversity and test our faith.....Beer me strength.
Back in the days... football clubs had two teams - first and reserves - precisely because you cannot predict from eleven players that they will bed in together nicely, always be fit and well, and always be on best form. Then came the subtleties of substitution and so the squads jumped up in size offering not just replacements for in game knocks and injuries but replacements for tactical (or technical) nuances. And, of course, since we are all so brilliant at prediction, teams have their 'cost a lot but rubbish fit'. Nobody can ever be satisfied with their lot as long as they can predict it could be better, and of course it can always be better - that is true in all competitive sport - world cup winners all the way down to toddlers' leagues.
Sure, but can you see that we don't have the squad depth in the middle? Something not only said at the time by Silva no less, but also by posters on here that we didn't bring in? I thought it was painfully obvious before this game, let alone in it, something you seem to think is fictitious?
Your weaknesses in argument are too obvious and you should, if in doubt, check that you know what your fellow FoF'ers are about.
I was one of the first people to not complain about Ream in defence in the PL, my argument being the obvious flaws in midfield which have an effect at both ends of the pitch something the eminently qualified Parker seemed to know nothing about when he sidelined Ream when midfielders were the chief cuprits for many of our goals against. I claim no prescience but just a logical appreciation of what football is really about. My thought process was - strengthen midfield and the defence will become better, and, as an extra bonus, we will score more goals too.
Wanting players and getting them are two different things and nobody can predict that players will get yellow cards or red cards except when it happens - it cannot be reckoned until it happens and even then what does a coach do if one of his players is constantly being booked? You can try the old trick of not playing them but it comes with flaws or you try to manage them. What do you do if a player has a niggling injury which flares up every now and again? Again don't play them and suffer the flaws or manage the problem.
Marco Silva is trying to find solutions to our current problem because he knows the best times without injuries or suspensions may be sometime away. He'll not be predicting anything because he is a professional ...
Someone pointed out I should hold more respect for your opinions as a poster. Its increasingly difficult when you call arguments fictitious or say things like 'Your weaknesses in argument are too obvious' rather arrogantly when on at least 3 occasions you typed a lot to say so little. I don't mind you not holding respect to my opinions. Couldn't care less. But at least try and make a coherent point. Pretending managers and directors of football don't 'predict' things like injuries and necessities to change tactics with suspensions etc. is up there with your ill thought out drivvle about randomness and injuries.
Well done for not complaining about Ream. You got that one right. In the short term anyway. His form might drastically change but its funny, as your point there actually defends my initial point here. Having a strong and steady midfield benefits the whole team. When one of our starters aren't available, it disrupts the entire team and turns a competent defence into a side conceding 4 goals at home to a struggling Newcastle side. We don't have the depth there. And we'll likely struggle whenever our usual starting 3 in that middle aren't available. A consequence to not strengthening that area.
As for 'Wanting players and getting them are two different things'. Sure, but that's what the recruiters are paid the big bucks for. It was our glaring weakness in my opinion in the window, and we're starting to see this play out. Pretending we'd get 100% appearances from Reed, Palinha and Pereria, and no one could possibly foresee injury or suspension is simple naivety.
To finish, I'll take a quote from you, wise poster, and pose it back to you.
Your weaknesses in argument are too obvious and you should, if in doubt, check that you know what your fellow FoF'ers are about.
Pot, Kettle, Black, FFC 1987.
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 12:06:23 PM
Quote from: jayffc on October 02, 2022, 12:52:13 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 12:10:28 AM
First off Jay, that wasn't true. Posters were openly ridiculed for suggesting anything other than 9/10 and calling the window incredible was deemed to be too pessimistic by a handful of posters. I think the window was good, albeit as called out at the timeC this decision either intentional or circumstantial to not being in a midfielder. I've highlighted it here to show that perhaps, this was why we felt the way we did. Can't remember who, but someone did say maybe it was Silvas decision as he believes in Chalo. Could well be true on his insistence to include and start him where possible.
Secondly, as I told you at the time, this has been posted after a loss which to my opinion, has highlighted a key weakness in our squad to which some, and some did unlike what you've said here, did say was overly cautious and pessimistic and a CM wasn't needed. This wasn't after a lovely victory where we're pretty much all happy, posting on to the board to rub a few posters in it. Very different scenarios. This post was more about suggesting we need to address it in January and it's clearly as issue, rather than pointing at specific posters as it's actually constructive. Not merely going 'we won, what ya worried about hey!' Which as I also said at the time, was too soon to really say.
The most important thing right now is how well this squad can do in October. It's a really important month and I thought a draw from this would of been a great result to be honest. Setting us up nicely for games with lots of potential points. Now. Not really sure what to expect and I'm much less confident than I was prior.
Well agree to disagree that its ultimately driven by the same thing however its dressed after a win or loss. One is justiying a previous positive opinion...so naturally would proceed a win...the other justifying a negative opinion - so naturally would proceed a loss ....I just patently disagree with the psychology behind it being much different but ya welcome to see it differently.
Anyway, I dont recall anyone ridiculing anyone for rating it less than a 9...people were saying it was wild that people were rating it a 5 and below as I remembe...we even had a 4. Perhaps 1 person said something different but not that I recall.
Anyway...its one result in a game we went down to ten men in minute 4...really think people are going overboard here in Reading too much into this.
Tete Palhinha and Robinson back and were unsuprisingly a better team. Were above Liverpool in 8th and with plenty going for us Mitro is my main concern really, a key figure and hope he's he's not out for long...
Wilson back, Solomon to come....yeh an extra DM in Jan would be nice but plenty confident and today doesn't change that for me. One positive i hope is that it signals the end for Chalobah for me
Sure, agree to disagree. I can say with confidence that people who put a 7/10 had laugh emoji's and a small amount of ridicule and 'entitled' fans put their way on social media as well as on here. As for 'psychology behind it being much different', its literally the reverse. Coming on to post along the lines of 'hey, what were ya worried about' is far less constructive and timely, coming on to the board when everyone is pretty much happy to dampen a few peoples days, is very different to say, pointing out a clear squad deficiency on a day that deficiency was plain to see. I'm not here to take away anyone's enjoyment from a 4.1 home loss to Newcastle, there wasn't any, whereas trying to do so when people are elated with a home win to Brighton (or Brentford, I can't quite recall) shows a clearly different tact hence calling you out at the time.
As for overboard, this is the thing for me. Posters like yourself say that, and its painting over the real issue. And it is painting over it. We just lost 4.1 at home to Newcastle, a team prior who hadn't won a game in 6 attempts prior to playing Forest. If we get an injury to Palinha or even Pereria, we are in serious trouble. Even when you get all those other injuries back fit, we simply don't have the depth in that middle which posters like myself, strongly highlighted during and post window. One of those glaringly obvious observations that just wasn't addressed.
I'm still positive as long as we remain injury free to those two players. If we do suffer an injury to them for a lengthy period of time, I'd be more confident that we get relegated without reinforcements in January than I would otherwise. It's highlighted and I hope we can agree, that the squad depth is the real issue here, not our starting 11 who for the most part, have been superb. Chalobah needs to go to championship and prove himself now and as you sayk, hopefully that's the nail in the coffin. Silva looked quite rightly royally p*ssed with that tackle even though he tried deflecting blame after the match.
Sorry this is a complete misrepresentation of the intention of the post you are referring to. In both cases it is what it is, a poster justifying a point they made earlier. Having studied human behavior for years there's little convincing me there that it's ultimately, really, anything else motivating it.
Coming on to say it seems it was, as stated, perhaps a waste of people's energy being negative all summer, isn't designed to "ruin other people's day". People might be sensitive enough to take it that way and not be able to laugh such things off and just go, "yeh fair play, might have got that wrong"- but that's not the intention there.
Further proof of that over sensitivity, saying you are confident everyone was laughing at anyone (and perhaps you feel you by sayign this) at suggesting a 7 or below is a complete fallacy...
Re-read the thread...https://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=87985.0
Not a single laugh emoji of the sort, loads of people saying a 7, and only me saying I find rating it a 5 astonishingly negative. That's the worst it got.
Genuinely think its worth pondering on why you recall it that way when it didnt in fact happen.
Anyway, Ill leave the thread there. I'm sure ya a decent bloke, and you try to keep the peace sometimes and mediate even if Im not always aligned with our reading of things
Jay, I added 'and on social media' in regards to the laugh emoji. I don't solely post on here and had different engagements on this subject and did say this.
Just an FYI, the link I click on takes me to this one again.
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 11:00:07 PM
Jay, I added 'and on social media' in regards to the laugh emoji. I don't solely post on here and had different engagements on this subject and did say this.
Just an FYI, the link I click on takes me to this one again.
Full backtracking, you were originally referencing the specific post about scoring the window which was on here. Not sure why the link messed up but the post is still there to see., I think personally its interesting to see how our own biases can distort our memory of events...
But no point going round on it further. Its not an honest exchange at this point
Don't wanna go down a circle here...genuinely wish ya well, hope we all enjoy the season
Quote from: jayffc on October 03, 2022, 12:49:20 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 11:00:07 PM
Jay, I added 'and on social media' in regards to the laugh emoji. I don't solely post on here and had different engagements on this subject and did say this.
Just an FYI, the link I click on takes me to this one again.
Full backtracking, you were originally referencing the specific post about scoring the window which was on here. Not sure why the link messed up but the post is still there to see., I think personally its interesting to see how our own biases can distort our memory of events...
But no point going round on it further. Its not an honest exchange at this point
Don't wanna go down a circle here...genuinely wish ya well, hope we all enjoy the season
With all due respect Jay, how is that backtracking? That was literally the exchange I had and saw from others on various social media platforms. I've always said this place is usually much milder compared to say, Twitter and Facebook though so maybe that's the distortion. Not carrying this on, but I'm not having this pretending to be a distorted version of events when it literally happened. Probably worth noting as well that the rating part actually got spread over multiple threads at that stage too. The rating part was just an example but was a consistent theme on the different social media platforms I saw. Not really sure what your angling at here though. You agree with the premise from what it looks like. Not bringing in a CM for cover is a current weakness in our squad?
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 03, 2022, 07:15:59 AM
Quote from: jayffc on October 03, 2022, 12:49:20 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 11:00:07 PM
Jay, I added 'and on social media' in regards to the laugh emoji. I don't solely post on here and had different engagements on this subject and did say this.
Just an FYI, the link I click on takes me to this one again.
Full backtracking, you were originally referencing the specific post about scoring the window which was on here. Not sure why the link messed up but the post is still there to see., I think personally its interesting to see how our own biases can distort our memory of events...
But no point going round on it further. Its not an honest exchange at this point
Don't wanna go down a circle here...genuinely wish ya well, hope we all enjoy the season
With all due respect Jay, how is that backtracking? That was literally the exchange I had and saw from others on various social media platforms. I've always said this place is usually much milder compared to say, Twitter and Facebook though so maybe that's the distortion. Not carrying this on, but I'm not having this pretending to be a distorted version of events when it literally happened. Probably worth noting as well that the rating part actually got spread over multiple threads at that stage too. The rating part was just an example but was a consistent theme on the different social media platforms I saw. Not really sure what your angling at here though. You agree with the premise from what it looks like. Not bringing in a CM for cover is a current weakness in our squad?
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Quote from: Hugh Gentry on October 03, 2022, 08:22:51 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 03, 2022, 07:15:59 AM
Quote from: jayffc on October 03, 2022, 12:49:20 AM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 11:00:07 PM
Jay, I added 'and on social media' in regards to the laugh emoji. I don't solely post on here and had different engagements on this subject and did say this.
Just an FYI, the link I click on takes me to this one again.
Full backtracking, you were originally referencing the specific post about scoring the window which was on here. Not sure why the link messed up but the post is still there to see., I think personally its interesting to see how our own biases can distort our memory of events...
But no point going round on it further. Its not an honest exchange at this point
Don't wanna go down a circle here...genuinely wish ya well, hope we all enjoy the season
With all due respect Jay, how is that backtracking? That was literally the exchange I had and saw from others on various social media platforms. I've always said this place is usually much milder compared to say, Twitter and Facebook though so maybe that's the distortion. Not carrying this on, but I'm not having this pretending to be a distorted version of events when it literally happened. Probably worth noting as well that the rating part actually got spread over multiple threads at that stage too. The rating part was just an example but was a consistent theme on the different social media platforms I saw. Not really sure what your angling at here though. You agree with the premise from what it looks like. Not bringing in a CM for cover is a current weakness in our squad?
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Hugh, this will be my last comment on this post and to you. Very rarely, do I dislike anyone on this forum but for you, I'll make a special exception and explain why. Not long ago, you reacted to a post of mine where I was commenting on Vestergard. I'd watched him a lot, had said as much and your only comment back was essentially, a snide remark about why would a Fulham fan be going to St Mary's so much. To save your blushes, and not turn the post into a pitty story, I reached out to DM you saying it was because my father in Law, had a serious stroke, meaning he could no longer go to the games by himself. Unable to drive and too anxious to get public transport. His only son, living and working in New York wasn't able to take him again until this season, so I stepped up for 3 seasons. That was hard enough, but missing some absolute glory years at the Cottage was also difficult. I reached out to you on this, and was met with silence. Followed by quite a few petty responses to my posts on different threads from time to time including here.
Well, you win Sir. I can see I've bored you among others so I'll be taking a step back from the forum and let you get excited by other topics and threads and posters you seem fit to enlighten us with. Could easily name too many posters I usually come here to chat to, including Jay, who despite our back and forths, I do really appreciate, SoTN, Sommerset, Whitejc, Mince, Wooley, Mitro....the list can go on, some terrific posters here. Hope we stay up, keep strong and try to enjoy it :wine:
Peace.
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 03:11:13 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 02:23:19 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 02:05:39 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on October 02, 2022, 01:04:23 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on October 02, 2022, 12:53:51 PM
Marco Silva selected what he believed was his best eleven from the 'fit' squad he was left with. He wasn't to know, any more so than Chalobah would have known, what was to happen very early in a game where the team would notably suffer from lack of experience together even if everything else went as planned. And the cherry on the cake is the only people who could have predicted what happened yesterday would either be gods or a part of some massive and complex conspiracy which is so good nobody sees the subtle evidence of what is really going on.
The connection between yesterday and the transfer window is fictitious because nobody could have predicted we would have the injuries and suspensions we had, not the Khans, not the head coach, and most of all, none of us. For sure we could/should have more depth but the fact is we do not have the versatility of central midfielders who can double up as something else. As Silva remarked it his job to find solutions if he can and we are left with no idea what the outcome might have been had Chalobah not been sent off.
Perhaps we may have lost even more heavily with Chalobah on the pitch since that seems the theme elsewhere on the forum and the gods smiled upon us by having him removed so early ...
I've seen some hot takes from you before, but this one takes the cake and the cherry. If no one can predict injuries or suspensions, why do you think teams have squads exactly?
So your trying to equate someone predicting a deficiency in the squad, to yesterdays result which culminated in a player playing that most here would say is championship standard at best, (probably)costing us the game and we didn't have the squad depth to not play him, as fictitious? Based on your own frail logic, maybe the Gods gave us the weakness of our midfield squad depth to give us some adversity and test our faith.....Beer me strength.
Back in the days... football clubs had two teams - first and reserves - precisely because you cannot predict from eleven players that they will bed in together nicely, always be fit and well, and always be on best form. Then came the subtleties of substitution and so the squads jumped up in size offering not just replacements for in game knocks and injuries but replacements for tactical (or technical) nuances. And, of course, since we are all so brilliant at prediction, teams have their 'cost a lot but rubbish fit'. Nobody can ever be satisfied with their lot as long as they can predict it could be better, and of course it can always be better - that is true in all competitive sport - world cup winners all the way down to toddlers' leagues.
Sure, but can you see that we don't have the squad depth in the middle? Something not only said at the time by Silva no less, but also by posters on here that we didn't bring in? I thought it was painfully obvious before this game, let alone in it, something you seem to think is fictitious?
Your weaknesses in argument are too obvious and you should, if in doubt, check that you know what your fellow FoF'ers are about.
I was one of the first people to not complain about Ream in defence in the PL, my argument being the obvious flaws in midfield which have an effect at both ends of the pitch something the eminently qualified Parker seemed to know nothing about when he sidelined Ream when midfielders were the chief cuprits for many of our goals against. I claim no prescience but just a logical appreciation of what football is really about. My thought process was - strengthen midfield and the defence will become better, and, as an extra bonus, we will score more goals too.
Wanting players and getting them are two different things and nobody can predict that players will get yellow cards or red cards except when it happens - it cannot be reckoned until it happens and even then what does a coach do if one of his players is constantly being booked? You can try the old trick of not playing them but it comes with flaws or you try to manage them. What do you do if a player has a niggling injury which flares up every now and again? Again don't play them and suffer the flaws or manage the problem.
Marco Silva is trying to find solutions to our current problem because he knows the best times without injuries or suspensions may be sometime away. He'll not be predicting anything because he is a professional ...
Someone pointed out I should hold more respect for your opinions as a poster. Its increasingly difficult when you call arguments fictitious or say things like 'Your weaknesses in argument are too obvious' rather arrogantly when on at least 3 occasions you typed a lot to say so little. I don't mind you not holding respect to my opinions. Couldn't care less. But at least try and make a coherent point. Pretending managers and directors of football don't 'predict' things like injuries and necessities to change tactics with suspensions etc. is up there with your ill thought out drivvle about randomness and injuries.
Well done for not complaining about Ream. You got that one right. In the short term anyway. His form might drastically change but its funny, as your point there actually defends my initial point here. Having a strong and steady midfield benefits the whole team. When one of our starters aren't available, it disrupts the entire team and turns a competent defence into a side conceding 4 goals at home to a struggling Newcastle side. We don't have the depth there. And we'll likely struggle whenever our usual starting 3 in that middle aren't available. A consequence to not strengthening that area.
As for 'Wanting players and getting them are two different things'. Sure, but that's what the recruiters are paid the big bucks for. It was our glaring weakness in my opinion in the window, and we're starting to see this play out. Pretending we'd get 100% appearances from Reed, Palinha and Pereria, and no one could possibly foresee injury or suspension is simple naivety.
To finish, I'll take a quote from you, wise poster, and pose it back to you.
Your weaknesses in argument are too obvious and you should, if in doubt, check that you know what your fellow FoF'ers are about.
Gents,
In your own subtle ways you both make very good salient points and they are rational, and i find myself agreeing with both of you on certain points.
It was a healthy and intelligent and absorbing debate.
Human nature being what it is, if we had won Saturday our conversations would have been so much different.
it hurts to lose and the pain is worse when we lose badly, because it does sow seeds of doubt in our minds whether the squad is good enough in adversity and whether the right players were selected and why other players did not start.
That is a normal reaction and questions will be asked amongst others issues about recruitment.
That is why that old chestnut one game at a time is so important, who would have anticipated and predicted that a Fulham player would be sent off in the first 6 minutes and for the rest of the match failed to handle the situation well enough to prevent Newcastle taking the spoils, that is football, and there is question marks against the manager's selection of the starting line up as well as his game management, that is normal healthy and acceptable, nobody is perfect apart from a few gorgeous women i have met in the past.
Nevertheless predictions may seem to be harmless fun, but they are an unnecessary irritant that is useless and unhelpful.
one week at a time and because anything can happen to influence the game.
But it is in adversity like what happened Saturday that must be used as a strength in the next match.
Fulham must overcome their troubles caused by Saturdays events and move on to the next challenge.
I enjoyed your debate and i always find both your posts intelligent rational observations served by a very good command of the English language.
Keep them coming.
Woolly is right lads.
No need to step back '87, being as prominent as you are you will always attract responses both good and bad. Just ignore the bad and crack on.
I would suggest both the two posters take on board Woolly & Somersets advice, before the Mods feel the need to step in and stop it.
We all appreciate the value you each bring to forum with your wisdom and thoughts regarding Fulham FC in particular, and footie in general, and you can both use the block feature to avoid seeing (and hopefully responding to) each others posts, but personal spats on the forum, and this is getting very personal, are not allowed to hijack threads. If you wish to carry on the spat then PM each other and please keep it out of the public domain.
Feck, for a minute there I thought it was going to penalties between you. 064.gif
