From the Daily Telegraoh website today...
The class war for football fans is writ large in Fulham's ultra-luxury stadium plans
Fulham not alone in introducing enhanced hospitality areas but an entire stand is now likely out of reach to anyone other than the very rich
THOM GIBBS
SENIOR SPORTS WRITER
27 March 2024 • 6:30am
Thom Gibbs
Fulham's new Riverside Stand proves football no longer matters in modern hospitality arms race
Craven Cottage is the only Premier League ground you can walk to along the Thames. It is surrounded by beautiful housing stock and dozens of delightful pubs. The titular cottage gives it a charm beyond almost every other stadium in the country. Is that enough? It is football, so you already know the answer is no.
Fulham's rebuilt Riverside stand was originally to open in 2021 but is still not fully operational. The bits that are cost north of £100 to sit in. Anyone who bristles at that is unlikely to enjoy the seven CGI images to mark the stand's launch, a word which usually implies something is open for business. Why are we looking at computer mockups not in-real-life photos? Perhaps because nothing can possibly look as glossy as these drawings in reality. Give it half a season and those armchairs will reek of lemon-scented cleaning spray to mask the many spillages of serviceable house red.
The accompanying literature features phrases like "redefining matchday entertainment," as well as claiming there will be two Michelin star restaurants on site. This seems both excessive and optimistic given that neither has opened yet and the Michelin guide tends to wait until someone can actually eat food at a place before bestowing its most coveted award. Fulham clarify that the chefs involved will likely be previous star-winners and provide the same level of culinary excellence.
Literature around the new stand claims there will be two Michelin star restaurants on site
Inside, should the reality match the mockups, patrons will enjoy wide leather seats and brass fittings as far as the eye can see. A TV is tuned to Sky Sports News in one restaurant shot, which is not the sort of thing which would fly down the road at actual star-holder The River Cafe. In a more prosaic area, wide tables line up in thrall to an enormous screen. A third of it is devoted to F1 for anyone who cannot bear to attend a football match without knowing exactly how far ahead Max Verstappen is. A shot of the "sky deck" zone shows a swimming pool, an echo of the same feature at the home of the Jacksonville Jaguars, Shahid Khan's other team. West London famously shares a very similar climate to northern Florida.
Fans will have plenty of options for keeping track of sporting action from their seats
What is already in place beside the Thames does not promise a great future for Fulham's traditional fanbase. On the approach it looks more like a racing grandstand than a terrace in the Archibald Leitch tradition. It is glass-fronted and pointy-roofed, suitably swish and sure to impress people who find Dubai a genuinely inspiring place.
Stadiums are a challenge for club owners because they sit unused and useless for the vast majority of the year. Khan effectively admits as much: "My vision for the New Riverside Stand was to provide our fans, and our neighbourhood, with a destination that would continue to honour our history and tradition at Craven Cottage every day of the year," he said. Dream big: Gourmet Christmas dinner with a view of the very pitch once graced by Rufus Brevett.
Modern stadiums must include these hospitality areas and Fulham are by no means alone. There are rarified middle tiers at Wembley, Arsenal and Tottenham which you are only likely to visit if on a freebie or with a six-figure salary, before bonuses. At Fulham an entire stand is now likely out of reach to anything other than the very wealthy.
The Riverside images underline how stratified match-going has become. A beautiful Mark Leech photograph, which Jim White wrote about earlier this week, showed a messy mass on the North Bank at Highbury, saluting Brian Kidd as he put on a police helmet. Then as now football attracts all sorts, but in those days the overwhelming majority had roughly the same experience.
In 2024 the most loyal home and away fans will experience woeful legroom, catastrophic toilets and leaky roofs. It is a world those paying for Riverside hospitality will probably never see, and vice versa. What hope is there for unity among fans when there is such clear division? Worse is the growing sense that owners are more interested in luxury experience-seekers than those who prop up a club like Fulham during its inevitable hard times.
Related Topics
Fulham FC, Premier League
Funny how different taste people hve nowadays.
None of those features listed for the new stand would give me the pleasure I used to enjoy watchinf Haynes and Tosh for 90 minutes for less than a couple of bob.
He criticises the look of the stand but every time I see Anfield get an extention it looks more like the post office depot with the roof damaged by high winds. I keep expecting a post truck to pull out.
The pictures will be the only way I'll ever get to see the new Riverside stand and all the fancy extras, but it looks fantastic nonetheless. Very posh and fancy.
Good work Mr Khan :Khan_you_fix_it:
Irrespective of whether one is in favour of the new stand or is critical of the club's ticket prices this article mainly shows how much the author (Thom Gibbs, a self avowed QPR supporter) really really does not like Fulham. Bitter? Not half he is. Jealousy is a terrible affliction.
He criticises the leaky roofs that ticket holders in the riverside stand will never experience.
I'm not so sure. I'm as snug as a bug in a rug in the JH stand. A side wind has to be practically horizontal to affect me when rain falls. No leaks anywhere I can see.
I've sat in the front rows of the top deck of the new stand a couple of times for cup matches when rain has arrived. To be literally accurate I've noticed no leaks there either. Doesn't need to be, because the architectural wonder that is the roof is so high up that any breeze renders it useless in blocking the rain. Two grand to get wet practically every time it rains. My word. How the other half live.
What he also forgets to mention is that it will be open 24/7, and not just fans attending on match day.
My first pay packet afforded me the chance to go from Brighton after a bus ride to the station to Fulham via train and underground. Buy a ticket for the game and a programme and something to eat on the way back. Now it is just laughable to think people could do that today.
But this isn't just class war. This is simply economic war on football fans. Forget the phrase 'traditional football fans' which gives you the idea we were all wearing flat caps and hiding a whippet under our coats. The fact is this is simply war against us all.
We allowed the cost of living to climb so some of us have to forget the cheese in our sandwich and just have a lettuce leaf. Oddly hasn't made us fitter just angrier. Or how about an urgent letter posted last Wednesday arrived this Wednesday when a package posted from Japan arrives in the same letter box in England two days later.
This is symptomatic of the way we have just allowed the throttling of every day convenience and affordability to be trampled on, wiped from the shoes of the super rich and thrown in a bin we can only dream of being able to throw rubbish in. Our rubbish is collected after all thanks to 5 per cent rise in Council Tax every year.
But so what? Who cares? Football is fine without the likes of me. Season Ticket holder in the Seventies, following my Dad who was a supporter before the War. Who gives a flying Fulham for the likes of us. Should earn more, should just go along with the bent system full of bent people selling bent products.
Goodbye live Fulham and Hi to tv highlights. Frankly we don't care anymore and frankly nor do they. Caviar to go with that Merlot Sir? Oh yes I believe a football match is going on. I believe the home side is winning. Up the Cottagers or whatever they are called. Lovely view of the River. Thank God for the rich.
Quote from: Lighthouse on March 27, 2024, 01:58:49 PMMy first pay packet afforded me the chance to go from Brighton after a bus ride to the station to Fulham via train and underground. Buy a ticket for the game and a programme and something to eat on the way back. Now it is just laughable to think people could do that today.
But this isn't just class war. This is simply economic war on football fans. Forget the phrase 'traditional football fans' which gives you the idea we were all wearing flat caps and hiding a whippet under our coats. The fact is this is simply war against us all.
We allowed the cost of living to climb so some of us have to forget the cheese in our sandwich and just have a lettuce leaf. Oddly hasn't made us fitter just angrier. Or how about an urgent letter posted last Wednesday arrived this Wednesday when a package posted from Japan arrives in the same letter box in England two days later.
This is symptomatic of the way we have just allowed the throttling of every day convenience and affordability to be trampled on, wiped from the shoes of the super rich and thrown in a bin we can only dream of being able to throw rubbish in. Our rubbish is collected after all thanks to 5 per cent rise in Council Tax every year.
But so what? Who cares? Football is fine without the likes of me. Season Ticket holder in the Seventies, following my Dad who was a supporter before the War. Who gives a flying Fulham for the likes of us. Should earn more, should just go along with the bent system full of bent people selling bent products.
Goodbye live Fulham and Hi to tv highlights. Frankly we don't care anymore and frankly nor do they. Caviar to go with that Merlot Sir? Oh yes I believe a football match is going on. I believe the home side is winning. Up the Cottagers or whatever they are called. Lovely view of the River. Thank God for the rich.
Red wine with caviar? No,no,no. ::wink::
On the plus side, it's infinitely better to be making these sorts of complaints than to be worrying about the whole ground being sold off and turned into flats, and there's a good chance this stand will generate substantial new revenues that can ultimately be spent on the team.
And it's a beautifully designed structure, befitting the setting well IMO.
However, and as much as I despise the Telegraph, the article isn't wrong. To a large extent, the Riverside development we've got isn't really a football stand - more a club side project, derived I reckon from the American football model where the rich spend several hours networking with some sport occurring unwatched in the background, and from the CEO's accountancy lens which just sees numbers and never the actual football and people making up a bigger picture.
Could be better, but could be worse.
I wonder what he will make of a new QPArse stand if they ever get to build it? I'm pleased we've got an owner who isn't looking to move us out and sell off the land to developers, like MAF would have done if he'd have got his way. The shiny new stand isn't for everyone and if those ticket prices help to subsidise STs in the other three parts of the ground then all well and good.
Quote from: cookieg on March 27, 2024, 03:15:09 PMif those ticket prices help to subsidise STs in the other three parts of the ground then all well and good.
Well we know that isn't happening
Quote from: cookieg on March 27, 2024, 03:15:09 PMI wonder what he will make of a new QPArse stand if they ever get to build it? I'm pleased we've got an owner who isn't looking to move us out and sell off the land to developers, like MAF would have done if he'd have got his way. The shiny new stand isn't for everyone and if those ticket prices help to subsidise STs in the other three parts of the ground then all well and good.
QPHa have made it clear that they need a new stadium. The Stade de Meccano offers no opportunities to expand.
The reporter doesn't sound happy - reporting on something that isn't open yet
I think its an objective and well written article without the supposed "jealousy" a couple are claiming.
I have been wondering about the economics that underpin all this, is it ethically right that our society skims such needless excess profit that companies and individuals can fritter away thousands on a day by a pool in a football stadium, written off against tax. Aren't we all subsidising the wealthy's extravagant days out? Seems a but shtity to me.
Quote from: Wolf on March 27, 2024, 05:05:10 PMI think its an objective and well written article without the supposed "jealousy" a couple are claiming.
I have been wondering about the economics that underpin all this, is it ethically right that our society skims such needless excess profit that companies and individuals can fritter away thousands on a day by a pool in a football stadium, written off against tax. Aren't we all subsidising the wealthy's extravagant days out? Seems a but shtity to me.
How on earth do you know sitting by a pool will be written off against tax?.
Quote from: Angus Telford on March 27, 2024, 03:16:30 PMQuote from: cookieg on March 27, 2024, 03:15:09 PMif those ticket prices help to subsidise STs in the other three parts of the ground then all well and good.
Well we know that isn't happening
now that would be a great gesture by the khans.
Quote from: alfie on March 27, 2024, 05:07:52 PMQuote from: Wolf on March 27, 2024, 05:05:10 PMI think its an objective and well written article without the supposed "jealousy" a couple are claiming.
I have been wondering about the economics that underpin all this, is it ethically right that our society skims such needless excess profit that companies and individuals can fritter away thousands on a day by a pool in a football stadium, written off against tax. Aren't we all subsidising the wealthy's extravagant days out? Seems a but shtity to me.
How on earth do you know sitting by a pool will be written off against tax?.
Have you seen the price of Lilos recently. They will use anything to write off against tax, even Garden Gnomes, and i am being serious for once.
Quote from: Wolf on March 27, 2024, 05:05:10 PMI think its an objective and well written article without the supposed "jealousy" a couple are claiming.
I have been wondering about the economics that underpin all this, is it ethically right that our society skims such needless excess profit that companies and individuals can fritter away thousands on a day by a pool in a football stadium, written off against tax. Aren't we all subsidising the wealthy's extravagant days out? Seems a but shtity to me.
Objective ? Well written? I'll give you that it's lucid and coherent but it's certainly not objective. It's snide and plain silly in parts. I really can't be bothered to analyse it in detail but how churlish and silly is this " Why are we looking at computer mockups not in-real-life photos? Perhaps because nothing can possibly look as glossy as these drawings in reality. Give it half a season and those armchairs will reek of lemon-scented cleaning spray to mask the many spillages of serviceable house red."
Quote from: alfie on March 27, 2024, 05:07:52 PMQuote from: Wolf on March 27, 2024, 05:05:10 PMI think its an objective and well written article without the supposed "jealousy" a couple are claiming.
I have been wondering about the economics that underpin all this, is it ethically right that our society skims such needless excess profit that companies and individuals can fritter away thousands on a day by a pool in a football stadium, written off against tax. Aren't we all subsidising the wealthy's extravagant days out? Seems a but shtity to me.
How on earth do you know sitting by a pool will be written off against tax?.
On a professional basis, it shouldn't. Business entertainment can be deducted in accounts but, for tax purposes, should be added back to the profits and taxed. Also, you are not allowed to claim back the VAT.
I don't think it is objective. He uses every chance he can to take the piss.
If the club came out and said ST pricing will be frozen for 3-5 years it would go a long long way to making all of this easier.
Quote from: Wolf on March 27, 2024, 05:05:10 PMI think its an objective and well written article without the supposed "jealousy" a couple are claiming.
I have been wondering about the economics that underpin all this, is it ethically right that our society skims such needless excess profit that companies and individuals can fritter away thousands on a day by a pool in a football stadium, written off against tax. Aren't we all subsidising the wealthy's extravagant days out? Seems a but shtity to me.
I disagree - I think the Telegraph article is 'sneering', lazy and frankly reeks of someone screaming 'send me a VIP pass so you can prove me wrong'.
Nasty, unnecessary and unwarranted piece based on not one scintilla of evidence obviously.
Quote from: Thailand Mick on March 27, 2024, 12:20:34 PMHe criticises the look of the stand but every time I see Anfield get an extention it looks more like the post office depot with the roof damaged by high winds. I keep expecting a post truck to pull out.
Funny you mention this Mick. Watching a Ricky Tomlinson programme last week I came to the same conclusion when they did a tour of Anfield. An impressive stadium alright but give me the unique atmosphere of the Cottage any day.
A very bitter and angry article.
If I didn't already know the author was a QPR fan, I probably could have guessed!
So everyone who thinks the article is biased doesn't mind that we have 100 pound plus tickets going in our new stand and that fans have been treated fairly with season ticket price rises?
Fair enough.
The article is pretty jaundiced imo.
The writer speaks of traditional Fulham fans who have followed the club through thick and thin, but these fans went down to below 5,000 at our lowest ebb, and where would the club be if that had remained the case, and a combination of factors, but mainly MAF's cash, hadn't propelled us into the highest echelons of the game?
And the present Fulham fan base isn't just die hard 'traditional' fans, who've followed the club through thick and thin. Many will have only followed the club since the MAF years, while our fan base now encompasses many who are well off, and not the stereotypical traditional football fan portrayed by the media.
If we went down, and remained there or even went lower, for any length of time, then Fulham attendances would become lower and lower, and the new stand a ludicrous White Elephant.
Except that Khan's plans to make it a 24 hour leisure centre for the well off, could still bear fruit, which would only be good for the club.
The wider picture is, is that it's very tough for Fulham to survive at all, let alone in the highest level of the game, and we need a benefactor and shrewd businessman like Khan to do this, and his plan seems to be to use the new stand, in which he's put so much of his own cash, to help the club not only survive, but become sustainable.
And to do this we also need, of course, Khan to continue to invest heavily in our playing staff, both in wages and transfer fees - and do we think he should just keep on paying out with no return on his investment?
Even MAF got fed up with this!
Yes, it's not fair if many traditional fans, like myself, or even present
season ticket holders, can no longer afford to go to games -
though it's supply and demand, and if enough fans stop paying the new prices, or if we go down and attendances drop, then prices will drop -
but when has the game been fair? Or society fair? Especially at present.
Just an opinion -
I'm only trying to look at the reality of the situation, not how i would like things to be as a Fulham fan, though I obviously want the club to survive, even prosper, rather than just hanging on as it was for so many years.
I read somewhere recently sbout someone who went on a tour at Craven Cottage and they said that the tour guide stated that the Riverside could generate 30% of our revenue in the future. Not just matchday revenue but total revenue including the PL TV money. Now I'm sure that is an absolute best case scenario projection and likely isn't realistic, but even getting half that projection would be absurd. That kind of jump moves us from the small club group in revenue that is pretty much all TV money to the group right behind the big 6 with Villa, West Ham and Newcastle in the medium sized club category. That's massive. Now there is still an enormous gap to the big 6 but that would put us in a very strong position.
I don't have a problem with £100 tickets in the Riverside, I don't sit there and never will. What's important to me is ticket prices for us poorer fans in the Hammersmith. If charging the wealthy subsidises the poorer then where's the issue?!
The new stand can make profit all year round , so great 👍🏻
I suppose the remaining stands will be sufficient for real fans unless or until we ever consistently out-perform the big London clubs, especially that lot down the road. Until then, if the Riverside can be filled with people paying large sums for such opulence, that will defray owner's expense and boost revenue to the benefit of the club as a whole. Perhaps some will become "real" fans.
I would hope that improvements to the Hammy end will take place in time, facilitated by the additional revenue.
That said, with yesterday's news that the Thames is so polluted that the winning boat race cox shouldn't be thrown in after the race, I certainly wouldn't be wanting to be eating at a table by the river, whether Michelin star or chips out of a bag.
At the end of the day, the investment prolongs football at Craven Cottage when it was in danger for so many years.
I still wonder what might have happened if one of these wealthy owners had been in place when the timber yard behind became available.
Quote from: Angus Telford on March 27, 2024, 02:28:19 PMTo a large extent, the Riverside development we've got isn't really a football stand...
Could be better...
But does this make the part of the Riverside development that is a football stand any less of one? Would it improve the football stand were the shops, posh restaurants, swimming pool etc. not there?
I am really beginning to hate the term "real fans", just because someone might be happy paying £100 a ticket does not necessarily automatically make them any less of a fan than someone in the Hammersmith end.
Quote from: Arthur on March 28, 2024, 10:04:22 AMQuote from: Angus Telford on March 27, 2024, 02:28:19 PMTo a large extent, the Riverside development we've got isn't really a football stand...
Could be better...
But does this make the part of the Riverside development that is a football stand any less of one? Would it improve the football stand were the shops, posh restaurants, swimming pool etc. not there?
You're right, all we need are seats, stairs and a bog, and it has that. I guess the question is do we have so many fans that some of those who would have attended at say £30 per game will be excluded now these seats are being sold to neutral corporates in £500 a game packages. Obviously there's been lots of speculation about that on this forum already but no one actually knows the answer.
When I first started going, back in the 1940's, I regularly used to stand right at the front of what is now the The Riverside, by the corner flag by the Hammy End. I stood at te front, not only for the view, but the steps of the terracing were grass and mud held up by wood, so there was a danger of slipping on a wet day. But that's progress and now we have this super cooper modern cruise ship, that very few of us will ever sail in. The hurtful part is that when we had to leave our seats in the old Riverside, we were given assurances that we would be looked after. What happened to that? There's progress for you.
Due to work and other commitments, I can usually only get to 4 or 5 games a season. I usually try and get in the Hammy end but when speaking with mates that I would go with, we as a group would happily pay £500 each for 5 games in the Riverside due to the view and facilities or perhaps 3 and a hospitality game or something. If there are other groups doing similar we would be putting in £2000 a season just from our friends group although technically I could be classed as a "tourist fan" I am not bothered about the opposition and only support Fulham when at matches. Some of us can't put the commitment to a 20+ game season
I share a Season ticket and that makes it worthwhile and possible to get to games, I guess I would share it with two others from here if I couldn't make more than 6 games ish a season. My son is Fulham through and through but can only make the odd game, doesn't make him any less of a fan IMO.
I have had this conversation before about real fans. I don't consider myself any less of a fan now than when I was able to go to every home game and many away games. Travelled once from the border of Scotland to Brighton and then up to Fulham for a match and then back to Brighton.
I don't consider myself more of a fan than the fans who live abroad and who have never been to a match.
As the prices continue to escalate I think more and more fans will never get a chance to see the team live.
I have never seen my favourite band live as they are in Japan and tour abroad but not in England for some time. I do spend lots of money on CDs and DVDs plus the postage. Am I less of a fan than somebody who has seen them on tour and in many concerts.
Sorry but if you are a fan of Fulham then we have a connection. Never been to the Cottage? Hope you get there someday but it doesn't make you less of a fan than anybody else.
Have done a couple of corporate at Fulham with Family and Friends and a very good experience it was too.Having said that we were in the Championship and I'm sure the 25 of us who attended those times couldn't probably afford the new stand prices.
We all want a better and better team to advance further in the Premier League and the Riverside will be the only way of achieving this.Apparently the New stand will generate 3 times what the other 3 stands do combined.With new rules coming in regarding FFP we need this Stand more than ever.
