..or as Frank Carson said : It's the way I tell 'em
Sky Sports' Andy Gray and Richard Keys make sexist comments (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi1joKn9SJs#)
IMO ......If the conversation between the numties was in the style of the replies to this utube clip or was delivered with a modicum of humour would there be all this fuss ....................?????
However, Our boys are well known for their insightful and skillful analyse : :005:
NEW June 2010 Andy Gray richard Keys Pisstake! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH-d_1Btgr4#)
:005:
They just need the dolls . . . like Ken and Barbie. "Kenny will go potty". Yes, their insightful message would've been there for all to see if that'd been the case. :011: :011:
Gray looks like he is toast.
It was apparently the fact that he brought a legal action against The News of the Screws this week about the 'phone hacking' scandal that prompted someone to leak this stuff at Sky. Rupert Murdoch owns both businesses - so Gray is effectively attempting to sue his employer. It was also apparently his legal action that in part prompted Andy Coulson (a Murdoch favourite) to step down from his role with the Tories.
Now, while it is entirely possible that someone at a relatively low level at Sky who had to work with Gray for 20 years leaked the stuff as part of a personal dislike of the bloke - the leaks just keep coming. Did you see the new clip when Gray is stood on the touchline prior to a link going live and he and a colleague are discussing how much of a 'looker' the lino is supposed to be.
The Sun - owned by Murdoch - are going full on to bury Gray -
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3369470/Sky-Sports-Andy-Gray-and-Richard-Keys-in-sexism-row-over-lineswoman-Sian-Massey.html (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3369470/Sky-Sports-Andy-Gray-and-Richard-Keys-in-sexism-row-over-lineswoman-Sian-Massey.html)
but its interesting that The Mirror are doing the same. If I am looking for Fulham stories on The Mirror website I click on the Fulham page and it lists everything that mentions Fulham. Yesterday it also included 4 separate stories about Gray and Keys - none of which mentioned Fulham. They are pushing it out as wide as they can as are other media outlets. The BBC were playing the audio clips on many of their news programmes yesterday throughout the day.
I see Keys has wheeled his wife out to say that it was 'just a bit of banter' and that everyone is overeacting.
Bury the buggers.
I really hope the both of them get fired. I personally do not see how this is in any way different to the 'Big Ron' racism debacle.
Sky need to stand up and sack them - they can start afresh for the next 20 years.
Sadly, I dont think they will, and it will be another slap on the wrist.
They are both a bunch of f****** c****
What I suspect may be something of a surprise to Sky is just how disliked Gray and Keys are amongst viewers. I see no support for them anywhere. Even those who say it's only lad's banter seem to stop short of saying what superb broadcasters they are.
I think Sky will take the opportunity to freshen things up and these two will go the way of Saint and Greavsie and be utterly unmissed.
...I presume that sky/newscorp have a written policy statement governing sexism in the workplace? They may face (in-house) disciplinary hearings and be forced to make some meally mouthed statement, but will that be enough to cut it?
These employees are high profile presenters whose image is supposed to reflect how wonderful sky is to the masses, by not sacking them are they condoning their actions, or would they be belittling the seriousness of the incident..?
Whilst I don't like either of them partly because of their contempt for Fulham, I think this is the thought Police gone mad!, if two blokes cannot talk in what they believed was in private then the world has gone mad, stop press it has!
Quote from: TonyGilroy on January 25, 2011, 09:49:53 AM
What I suspect may be something of a surprise to Sky is just how disliked Gray and Keys are amongst viewers. I see no support for them anywhere. Even those who say it's only lad's banter seem to stop short of saying what superb broadcasters they are.
I think Sky will take the opportunity to freshen things up and these two will go the way of Saint and Greavsie and be utterly unmissed.
Good point. Lots of people came out and stood up for Big Ron (though I don't recall many for Rodney Marsh?) and I haven't heard a single supporter other than Keys wife - and she only said it cos she's doing his driver :dft012:.
I think you are right - they will go. Probably not immediately but Sky will be working on a new line-up now and will probably introduce it at the start of next season.
I could see them going for a duo of Ed Chamberlin - (http://www.sport.co.uk/public/ed-chamberlin.jpg)
and Jamie Redknapp or, given the nature of this debacle maybe its time for
(http://insidecelebrityworld.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/24932_georgie_thompson_gallery_10.jpg)
or (http://www.topnews.in/files/images/MillieClode1.jpg)
Quote from: epsomraver on January 25, 2011, 09:59:00 AM
Whilst I don't like either of them partly because of their contempt for Fulham, I think this is the thought Police gone mad!, if two blokes cannot talk in what they believed was in private then the world has gone mad, stop press it has!
Was it a private conversation though? They were 1) In the workplace 2) microphoned up.
Is it acceptable if I start criticising the women at work for being female and unable to do their jobs, even if it is a private conversation? No. not at all.
Keys is pathetic and has the personality of an omeba, while Gray, though a great player in his day, is nothing more than a thick, self-satisfied,smug, know-all. The only thing I fear is that if they are sacked, while will get even more of the dire Jamie Redknapp whose whining voice and inablity to express himself I find even more annoying than the other two losers. Get in Woy! He's got nothing to do at the moment.
I dont particulary like Keys or Gray, but bloody hell it's all a bit ott aint it? Plus women shouldn't be linesman and should stick to filing and making the tea :hook:
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on January 25, 2011, 10:05:07 AM
Quote from: epsomraver on January 25, 2011, 09:59:00 AM
Whilst I don't like either of them partly because of their contempt for Fulham, I think this is the thought Police gone mad!, if two blokes cannot talk in what they believed was in private then the world has gone mad, stop press it has!
Was it a private conversation though? They were 1) In the workplace 2) microphoned up.
Is it acceptable if I start criticising the women at work for being female and unable to do their jobs, even if it is a private conversation? No. not at all.
And you can hand on heart say you have never slagged off a work mate just because she is a she? never said as "ALLO ALLO! Stupid Woman!
Quote from: epsomraver on January 25, 2011, 10:58:57 AM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on January 25, 2011, 10:05:07 AM
Quote from: epsomraver on January 25, 2011, 09:59:00 AM
Whilst I don't like either of them partly because of their contempt for Fulham, I think this is the thought Police gone mad!, if two blokes cannot talk in what they believed was in private then the world has gone mad, stop press it has!
Was it a private conversation though? They were 1) In the workplace 2) microphoned up.
Is it acceptable if I start criticizing the women at work for being female and unable to do their jobs, even if it is a private conversation? No. not at all.
And you can hand on heart say you have never slagged off a work mate just because she is a she? never said as "ALLO ALLO! Stupid Woman!
Yep. Hand on heart.
If you can be sacked for criticizing a player for being black, you can be sacked for criticizing an official for being a woman.
There's no reason what so ever to think that a lino should be any better or worse at doing their job because they happen to be a woman.
I can say that hand on heart. I have certainly called colleagues/clients/suppliers conniving, cheating, lazy, crooked and many other things but not because they were women. Women do almost all types of work better than men and I have met far more useless men than I have useless women.
Keys and Gray aren't laughing while they say those things they are said with some venom and intent - it is not just banter. Those are clearly views that they serriously hold. And, as such, they are not compatible with the work they do or the arena they do it in. Sky are in far too public a place to be seen be implicity condoning stuff like that.
If you sent an email in the workplace saying something like that you would be carpeted for it and this is no different. Bin them and everybody like them.
Quote from: epsomraver on January 25, 2011, 10:58:57 AM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on January 25, 2011, 10:05:07 AM
Quote from: epsomraver on January 25, 2011, 09:59:00 AM
Whilst I don't like either of them partly because of their contempt for Fulham, I think this is the thought Police gone mad!, if two blokes cannot talk in what they believed was in private then the world has gone mad, stop press it has!
Was it a private conversation though? They were 1) In the workplace 2) microphoned up.
Is it acceptable if I start criticising the women at work for being female and unable to do their jobs, even if it is a private conversation? No. not at all.
And you can hand on heart say you have never slagged off a work mate just because she is a she? never said as "ALLO ALLO! Stupid Woman!
I have never doubted the ability of a woman because she is female, I have if she is rubbish at her job. Very different things.
Perhaps I'm on my own here, but I think Andy Gray is the best current football commentator.
Sky is being absurd and hypocritical over this. It would be a different matter if the comments had been intentionally broadcast, but they were essentially private remarks broadcast, from the Keys/Gray angle, unexpectedly. If they sack Keys and Gray over this I think I'll cancel my Sky sports sub. (which is far more than half the total of my Sky sub.) and watch the matches for free on the computer.
Big Ron's comments were made in a similar 'private' way. Would you have him back as well?
Quote from: Oakeshott on January 25, 2011, 11:20:11 AM
Perhaps I'm on my own here, but I think Andy Gray is the best current football commentator.
Sky is being absurd and hypocritical over this. It would be a different matter if the comments had been intentionally broadcast, but they were essentially private remarks broadcast, from the Keys/Gray angle, unexpectedly. If they sack Keys and Gray over this I think I'll cancel my Sky sports sub. (which is far more than half the total of my Sky sub.) and watch the matches for free on the computer.
Hahaha.
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. You are really saying that Andy Gray is the reason you pay £30 odd pounds a month to watch premier league football when you could get it for free!
No, of course I am not saying that. I am saying that as a consumer the way to register dissatisfaction with a service provider - of any kind - is to reduce or switch one's business.
I can't remember the circumstances of Ron Atkinson's comments, but if they were made in private and accidentally broadcast, or worse still leaked, then in my view the same would apply.
The bottom line is that everyone should be free to hold whatever views they like, provided they don't express them publicly, or act on them, in ways that harm others.
They were microphoned up in the middle of a studio, minutes before broadcast. There were probably a dozen or more crew members that could hear them, many of them female.
If this had been a conversation in the pub, I wouldn't want them sacked (but I would like them even less). They were at work. I'm quite happy for people to hold whatever disgusting views they like, but if they say anything racist, sexist or homophobic at work they shouldn't be surprised if they end up without a job.
Quote from: Oakeshott on January 25, 2011, 11:46:39 AM
The bottom line is that everyone should be free to hold whatever views they like, provided they don't express them publicly, or act on them, in ways that harm others.
Its a difficult area though. I think members of the police and teaching professions have been forced out because their leaked membership of the British National Party was felt to be incompatible with their roles.
Looking back at the Big Ron thing it was slightly different because his comments, though made after the game had finished and with him thinking his microphone was off, were accidently broadcast -
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/article-10368374-ron-ill-meet-desailly-to-say-sorry.do (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/article-10368374-ron-ill-meet-desailly-to-say-sorry.do)
I have never doubted the ability of a woman because she is female, I have if she is rubbish at her job. Very different things.
[/quote]
Absolutely. Criticise her if she is a poor assistant referee, not for her gender, which should not be relevant.
Hold whatever views you like but once you share them with others be prepared to take the consequences of their reactions.
Quote from: Oakeshott on January 25, 2011, 11:46:39 AM
No, of course I am not saying that. I am saying that as a consumer the way to register dissatisfaction with a service provider - of any kind - is to reduce or switch one's business.
I can't remember the circumstances of Ron Atkinson's comments, but if they were made in private and accidentally broadcast, or worse still leaked, then in my view the same would apply.
The bottom line is that everyone should be free to hold whatever views they like, provided they don't express them publicly, or act on them, in ways that harm others.
100% believe in freedom of speech BUT:
1) Your employer has the right to remove you if they deem your take on the world to be offensive
2) They are obviously cowards if they will not come out and stick up for their views, however wrong.
3) What about their various colleagues? I bet lots of women who work at Sky Sports get bloody tired of all of the 'leave it out love' attitude that pervades SS. It all seems a bit to close to Anchorman for my liking...
Keys is just a spineless turd who'll say whatever he thinks the person he's talking to wants to hear, but I'm actually quite surprised at Gray. Used to like him doing games but he's been toeing the party line for far too long when I'm sure he used to say it as it was, regardless of whether that meant praising Fulham or slating United.
It was unprofessional of them to say that when they were miked up, that much is clear.
High time Sky binned the obsequious Keys and frankly I'd lose no sleep whatsoever if Gray went too.
'I bet lots of women who work at Sky Sports get bloody tired of all of the 'leave it out love' attitude that pervades SS.'
A channel that's happy to employ any number of good-looking women to read the autocues on SSN.
I cant stand Andy Gray, I've now resorted to listening the fans commentary and was thinking of ditching Sky. Now I may keep it
Quote from: ImperialWhite on January 25, 2011, 11:52:05 AM
They were microphoned up in the middle of a studio, minutes before broadcast. There were probably a dozen or more crew members that could hear them, many of them female.
If this had been a conversation in the pub, I wouldn't want them sacked (but I would like them even less). They were at work. I'm quite happy for people to hold whatever disgusting views they like, but if they say anything racist, sexist or homophobic at work they shouldn't be surprised if they end up without a job.
I agree with this.
If they are at work, and all microphoned up, then they should have no right to expect that their conversation would be private, and Sky need to deal with it as they would any other harrassment or disrepute issue.
Quote from: ImperialWhite on January 25, 2011, 11:52:05 AM
They were microphoned up in the middle of a studio, minutes before broadcast. There were probably a dozen or more crew members that could hear them, many of them female.
If this had been a conversation in the pub, I wouldn't want them sacked (but I would like them even less). They were at work. I'm quite happy for people to hold whatever disgusting views they like, but if they say anything racist, sexist or homophobic at work they shouldn't be surprised if they end up without a job.
:045:
Could not have put it better myself.
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Sky-no-comment-on-Richard-Keys-and-Andy-Gray-return-after-Sian-Massey-sexist-remarks-storm-article681363.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Sky-no-comment-on-Richard-Keys-and-Andy-Gray-return-after-Sian-Massey-sexist-remarks-storm-article681363.html)
This seems to be a storm in a teacup.
Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.
Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.
...I wonder if Gold & Sullivan will show solidarity to their colleague Karen Brady and ban sky sports cameras until such time as an apology is made..?
Quote from: Jimpav on January 25, 2011, 01:20:25 PM
This seems to be a storm in a teacup.
Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.
Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.
But will people ever learn if it is only ever an apology? People need to learn that actions have consequences, why should these two bigots continue to earn £1.7m a year?
QuoteThis seems to be a storm in a teacup.
Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.
Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.
But will people ever learn if it is only ever an apology? People need to learn that actions have consequences, why should these two bigots continue to earn £1.7m a year?
:clap_hands:
Quote from: Jimpav on January 25, 2011, 01:20:25 PM
This seems to be a storm in a teacup.
Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.
Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.
Completely agree with Jimpav. And in addition, for anyone who really cares, the objectification of women that is rampant in society and on this forum is far more distasteful and destructive than a former footballer who doesnt like the idea of a female lino. The worst thing the two said was "kenny will go potty", really didnt need that image in my head.
Quote from: duffbeer on January 25, 2011, 01:51:41 PM
Quote from: Jimpav on January 25, 2011, 01:20:25 PM
This seems to be a storm in a teacup.
Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.
Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.
Completely agree with Jimpav. And in addition, for anyone who really cares, the objectification of women that is rampant in society and on this forum is far more distasteful and destructive than a former footballer who doesnt like the idea of a female lino. The worst thing the two said was "kenny will go potty", really didnt need that image in my head.
So believing that women are inferior to men is an acceptable position, but thinking that a woman is beautiful is 'distasteful and destructive'?
Are you based in the Bible Belt sir?
I'm just amazed she managed to read the map/ follow the satnav instructions and actually find her way to the ground. Luckily some bloke parked the car for her though, as it was a very tight space :dft012:
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/football-banter/Richard-Keys-and-Andy-Gray-laugh-at-other-commentators-mistakes-Keys-greases-up-Ulrika-Jonsson-Tando-Velaphi-or-Robbie-Fowler-s-Peth-Glory-throws-one-in-v-Wellington-Phoneix-in-goalkeeper-fail-Italian-commentator-goes-crazy-at-Roma-v-Cagliari-and-goals-from-Francesco-Totti-Simone-Perrotta-and-Jeremy-Menez-3PM-Extra-video-round-up-January-25-article681459.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/football-banter/Richard-Keys-and-Andy-Gray-laugh-at-other-commentators-mistakes-Keys-greases-up-Ulrika-Jonsson-Tando-Velaphi-or-Robbie-Fowler-s-Peth-Glory-throws-one-in-v-Wellington-Phoneix-in-goalkeeper-fail-Italian-commentator-goes-crazy-at-Roma-v-Cagliari-and-goals-from-Francesco-Totti-Simone-Perrotta-and-Jeremy-Menez-3PM-Extra-video-round-up-January-25-article681459.html)
Andy Gray has been sacked:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9373280.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9373280.stm)
:yay:
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on January 25, 2011, 02:00:25 PM
Quote from: duffbeer on January 25, 2011, 01:51:41 PM
Quote from: Jimpav on January 25, 2011, 01:20:25 PM
This seems to be a storm in a teacup.
Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.
Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.
Completely agree with Jimpav. And in addition, for anyone who really cares, the objectification of women that is rampant in society and on this forum is far more distasteful and destructive than a former footballer who doesnt like the idea of a female lino. The worst thing the two said was "kenny will go potty", really didnt need that image in my head.
So believing that women are inferior to men is an acceptable position, but thinking that a woman is beautiful is 'distasteful and destructive'?
Are you based in the Bible Belt sir?
AlFayedschequebook, I'm not a sir and I don't live in the bible belt. I also don't equate not wanting women on the football pitch to thinking women are inferior to men, although I wouldn't be surprised if those two gents do think that. I know they said the thing about not "understanding offsides", but frankly I've heard similar comments from English commentators during the World Cup about male referees and linesmen that are from countries without a major football league. And these comments were intended for mass public consumption and to be taken seriously.
Similarly, I don't believe thinking women are beautiful is the same as the sexual objectification of women. It is possible to think the former without doing the latter. And as far as which is more distasteful and destructive I can offer this example. When I was in my twenties, I was a female engineer working in the male dominated world of casting foundries. One time a male engineer told me in all sincerity that the reason female engineers were not as good as their male counterparts was because the right side of a woman's brain is smaller. Well that comment didn't bother me at all because I could do something about it by working hard and demonstrating that what he thought was wrong or irrelevant. In contrast, I worked in a casting foundry near Leeds in which almost every worker on the shop floor had pictures of naked women plastered all over their workspace. Well on the outside I dealt with it, even informing the ones with a sense of humour that perhaps they wouldn't be producing so much scrap if they weren't staring at those pictures all day, but I would be lying if I said working in that environment wasn't more intimidating or difficult in terms of doing my job. There was really no constructive way I could react to it.
Now maybe I'm alone in that regard or overly sensitive, but judging from the number of teenage anorexics, the popularity of boob jobs, and the plethora of plastic surgery on display in the ever popular women over 40 thread, I'm betting my company is quite vast. And it is all demonstrative of a trend I consider destructive and something that at some point needs to be reigned in. Much the way your namesake thinks salary caps are in order for the over all well-being of the prem. I was merely making a point and wasn't the only one to claim a bit of hypocrisy had crept in to the issue. It was not a judgment of any posters or this forum. I fully realize I have no business posting on a mostly male football forum if I don't expect to see some female T&A. Although I actually only visit here for the food/cooking thread and the hope that someday I can have an NFR talk with someone about how hot Jonathan Spector is.
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on January 25, 2011, 02:00:25 PM
Quote from: duffbeer on January 25, 2011, 01:51:41 PM
Quote from: Jimpav on January 25, 2011, 01:20:25 PM
This seems to be a storm in a teacup.
Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.
Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.
Completely agree with Jimpav. And in addition, for anyone who really cares, the objectification of women that is rampant in society and on this forum is far more distasteful and destructive than a former footballer who doesnt like the idea of a female lino. The worst thing the two said was "kenny will go potty", really didnt need that image in my head.
So believing that women are inferior to men is an acceptable position, but thinking that a woman is beautiful is 'distasteful and destructive'?
Are you based in the Bible Belt sir?
Hahaha how very sexist of you too think that because someone posts on a football forum that they are a bloke, as you can see from a later post that Duffy is a bird, who manages to post on here inbetween hoovering and making the dinner for the breadwinner :dft012:
Quote from: duffbeer on January 25, 2011, 05:58:40 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on January 25, 2011, 02:00:25 PM
Quote from: duffbeer on January 25, 2011, 01:51:41 PM
Quote from: Jimpav on January 25, 2011, 01:20:25 PM
This seems to be a storm in a teacup.
Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.
Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.
Completely agree with Jimpav. And in addition, for anyone who really cares, the objectification of women that is rampant in society and on this forum is far more distasteful and destructive than a former footballer who doesnt like the idea of a female lino. The worst thing the two said was "kenny will go potty", really didnt need that image in my head.
So believing that women are inferior to men is an acceptable position, but thinking that a woman is beautiful is 'distasteful and destructive'?
Are you based in the Bible Belt sir?
AlFayedschequebook, I'm not a sir and I don't live in the bible belt. I also don't equate not wanting women on the football pitch to thinking women are inferior to men, although I wouldn't be surprised if those two gents do think that. I know they said the thing about not "understanding offsides", but frankly I've heard similar comments from English commentators during the World Cup about male referees and linesmen that are from countries without a major football league. And these comments were intended for mass public consumption and to be taken seriously.
Similarly, I don't believe thinking women are beautiful is the same as the sexual objectification of women. It is possible to think the former without doing the latter. And as far as which is more distasteful and destructive I can offer this example. When I was in my twenties, I was a female engineer working in the male dominated world of casting foundries. One time a male engineer told me in all sincerity that the reason female engineers were not as good as their male counterparts was because the right side of a woman's brain is smaller. Well that comment didn't bother me at all because I could do something about it by working hard and demonstrating that what he thought was wrong or irrelevant. In contrast, I worked in a casting foundry near Leeds in which almost every worker on the shop floor had pictures of naked women plastered all over their workspace. Well on the outside I dealt with it, even informing the ones with a sense of humour that perhaps they wouldn't be producing so much scrap if they weren't staring at those pictures all day, but I would be lying if I said working in that environment wasn't more intimidating or difficult in terms of doing my job. There was really no constructive way I could react to it.
Now maybe I'm alone in that regard or overly sensitive, but judging from the number of teenage anorexics, the popularity of boob jobs, and the plethora of plastic surgery on display in the ever popular women over 40 thread, I'm betting my company is quite vast. And it is all demonstrative of a trend I consider destructive and something that at some point needs to be reigned in. Much the way your namesake thinks salary caps are in order for the over all well-being of the prem. I was merely making a point and wasn't the only one to claim a bit of hypocrisy had crept in to the issue. It was not a judgment of any posters or this forum. I fully realize I have no business posting on a mostly male football forum if I don't expect to see some female T&A. Although I actually only visit here for the food/cooking thread and the hope that someday I can have an NFR talk with someone about how hot Jonathan Spector is.
who said Americans don't do irony :clap_hands:
Quote from: duffbeer on January 25, 2011, 05:58:40 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on January 25, 2011, 02:00:25 PM
Quote from: duffbeer on January 25, 2011, 01:51:41 PM
Quote from: Jimpav on January 25, 2011, 01:20:25 PM
This seems to be a storm in a teacup.
Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.
Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.
Completely agree with Jimpav. And in addition, for anyone who really cares, the objectification of women that is rampant in society and on this forum is far more distasteful and destructive than a former footballer who doesnt like the idea of a female lino. The worst thing the two said was "kenny will go potty", really didnt need that image in my head.
So believing that women are inferior to men is an acceptable position, but thinking that a woman is beautiful is 'distasteful and destructive'?
Are you based in the Bible Belt sir?
AlFayedschequebook, I'm not a sir and I don't live in the bible belt. I also don't equate not wanting women on the football pitch to thinking women are inferior to men, although I wouldn't be surprised if those two gents do think that. I know they said the thing about not "understanding offsides", but frankly I've heard similar comments from English commentators during the World Cup about male referees and linesmen that are from countries without a major football league. And these comments were intended for mass public consumption and to be taken seriously.
Similarly, I don't believe thinking women are beautiful is the same as the sexual objectification of women. It is possible to think the former without doing the latter. And as far as which is more distasteful and destructive I can offer this example. When I was in my twenties, I was a female engineer working in the male dominated world of casting foundries. One time a male engineer told me in all sincerity that the reason female engineers were not as good as their male counterparts was because the right side of a woman's brain is smaller. Well that comment didn't bother me at all because I could do something about it by working hard and demonstrating that what he thought was wrong or irrelevant. In contrast, I worked in a casting foundry near Leeds in which almost every worker on the shop floor had pictures of naked women plastered all over their workspace. Well on the outside I dealt with it, even informing the ones with a sense of humour that perhaps they wouldn't be producing so much scrap if they weren't staring at those pictures all day, but I would be lying if I said working in that environment wasn't more intimidating or difficult in terms of doing my job. There was really no constructive way I could react to it.
Now maybe I'm alone in that regard or overly sensitive, but judging from the number of teenage anorexics, the popularity of boob jobs, and the plethora of plastic surgery on display in the ever popular women over 40 thread, I'm betting my company is quite vast. And it is all demonstrative of a trend I consider destructive and something that at some point needs to be reigned in. Much the way your namesake thinks salary caps are in order for the over all well-being of the prem. I was merely making a point and wasn't the only one to claim a bit of hypocrisy had crept in to the issue. It was not a judgment of any posters or this forum. I fully realize I have no business posting on a mostly male football forum if I don't expect to see some female T&A. Although I actually only visit here for the food/cooking thread and the hope that someday I can have an NFR talk with someone about how hot Jonathan Spector is.
:Sparkyticus: Beautifully put. Absolutely with you on this one.
WHITEwitch, I'm truly flattered that you're with me on this.
And look who else is with us, Dempsey also thinks Jonathan is a hottie.
(http://blog.nj.com/realtimesports_impact/2009/06/medium_ussoc.jpg)
Oi Frady-Cat .............I hadn't pegged you for a Pikie ............don't forget to watch :
My big Fat Gipsy Wedding
9PM channel 4
Anything slightly iffy gets blow to hell by the British Media as there is always outrage among the chattering classes .....................................but Hay ...................................those two were shafted good and proper .
My point was , if their conversation was light /funny it would never have made it into the public domain
Personally, I do not mind Grey he was a good player. However, Keys is the swetty-handed, tittery bloke that got over promoted and is waiting to be found out .............................we all have worked with one of those
Their conversation was very bleak, dull, dead cringy .............................................................and as pundits they SHOULD know the number of women (Men -in Black ) employed by the Sweet F All
The good thing to come out of all this is that there will be lots of legal stuff going on in the background so some bird will probably get loads of overtime doing the photo copying :54:
Quote from: duffbeer on January 25, 2011, 05:58:40 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on January 25, 2011, 02:00:25 PM
Quote from: duffbeer on January 25, 2011, 01:51:41 PM
Quote from: Jimpav on January 25, 2011, 01:20:25 PM
This seems to be a storm in a teacup.
Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.
Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.
Completely agree with Jimpav. And in addition, for anyone who really cares, the objectification of women that is rampant in society and on this forum is far more distasteful and destructive than a former footballer who doesnt like the idea of a female lino. The worst thing the two said was "kenny will go potty", really didnt need that image in my head.
So believing that women are inferior to men is an acceptable position, but thinking that a woman is beautiful is 'distasteful and destructive'?
Are you based in the Bible Belt sir?
AlFayedschequebook, I'm not a sir and I don't live in the bible belt. I also don't equate not wanting women on the football pitch to thinking women are inferior to men, although I wouldn't be surprised if those two gents do think that. I know they said the thing about not "understanding offsides", but frankly I've heard similar comments from English commentators during the World Cup about male referees and linesmen that are from countries without a major football league. And these comments were intended for mass public consumption and to be taken seriously.
Similarly, I don't believe thinking women are beautiful is the same as the sexual objectification of women. It is possible to think the former without doing the latter. And as far as which is more distasteful and destructive I can offer this example. When I was in my twenties, I was a female engineer working in the male dominated world of casting foundries. One time a male engineer told me in all sincerity that the reason female engineers were not as good as their male counterparts was because the right side of a woman's brain is smaller. Well that comment didn't bother me at all because I could do something about it by working hard and demonstrating that what he thought was wrong or irrelevant. In contrast, I worked in a casting foundry near Leeds in which almost every worker on the shop floor had pictures of naked women plastered all over their workspace. Well on the outside I dealt with it, even informing the ones with a sense of humour that perhaps they wouldn't be producing so much scrap if they weren't staring at those pictures all day, but I would be lying if I said working in that environment wasn't more intimidating or difficult in terms of doing my job. There was really no constructive way I could react to it.
Now maybe I'm alone in that regard or overly sensitive, but judging from the number of teenage anorexics, the popularity of boob jobs, and the plethora of plastic surgery on display in the ever popular women over 40 thread, I'm betting my company is quite vast. And it is all demonstrative of a trend I consider destructive and something that at some point needs to be reigned in. Much the way your namesake thinks salary caps are in order for the over all well-being of the prem. I was merely making a point and wasn't the only one to claim a bit of hypocrisy had crept in to the issue. It was not a judgment of any posters or this forum. I fully realize I have no business posting on a mostly male football forum if I don't expect to see some female T&A. Although I actually only visit here for the food/cooking thread and the hope that someday I can have an NFR talk with someone about how hot Jonathan Spector is.
Thankyou for writing that, you make some really good points.
However, I disagree with you in the first paragraph. I thought what they said was offensive, and should you substitute "women" for "black people" they would have been sacked before the morning. I think this sacking sends an important message that sexism is not acceptable in football.
Quote from: FatFreddysCat on January 25, 2011, 08:35:14 PM
The good thing to come out of all this is that there will be lots of legal stuff going on in the background so some bird will probably get loads of overtime doing the photo copying :54:
:011:
...............and I hope she has small feet :038:
Murdoch has buried him properly. Brace yourself for more revelations about Mr Gray when he decides to pursue an unfair dismissal case against Sky.
Quote from: duffbeer on January 25, 2011, 05:58:40 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on January 25, 2011, 02:00:25 PM
Quote from: duffbeer on January 25, 2011, 01:51:41 PM
Quote from: Jimpav on January 25, 2011, 01:20:25 PM
This seems to be a storm in a teacup.
Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.
Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.
Completely agree with Jimpav. And in addition, for anyone who really cares, the objectification of women that is rampant in society and on this forum is far more distasteful and destructive than a former footballer who doesnt like the idea of a female lino. The worst thing the two said was "kenny will go potty", really didnt need that image in my head.
So believing that women are inferior to men is an acceptable position, but thinking that a woman is beautiful is 'distasteful and destructive'?
Are you based in the Bible Belt sir?
AlFayedschequebook, I'm not a sir and I don't live in the bible belt. I also don't equate not wanting women on the football pitch to thinking women are inferior to men, although I wouldn't be surprised if those two gents do think that. I know they said the thing about not "understanding offsides", but frankly I've heard similar comments from English commentators during the World Cup about male referees and linesmen that are from countries without a major football league. And these comments were intended for mass public consumption and to be taken seriously.
Similarly, I don't believe thinking women are beautiful is the same as the sexual objectification of women. It is possible to think the former without doing the latter. And as far as which is more distasteful and destructive I can offer this example. When I was in my twenties, I was a female engineer working in the male dominated world of casting foundries. One time a male engineer told me in all sincerity that the reason female engineers were not as good as their male counterparts was because the right side of a woman's brain is smaller. Well that comment didn't bother me at all because I could do something about it by working hard and demonstrating that what he thought was wrong or irrelevant. In contrast, I worked in a casting foundry near Leeds in which almost every worker on the shop floor had pictures of naked women plastered all over their workspace. Well on the outside I dealt with it, even informing the ones with a sense of humour that perhaps they wouldn't be producing so much scrap if they weren't staring at those pictures all day, but I would be lying if I said working in that environment wasn't more intimidating or difficult in terms of doing my job. There was really no constructive way I could react to it.
Now maybe I'm alone in that regard or overly sensitive, but judging from the number of teenage anorexics, the popularity of boob jobs, and the plethora of plastic surgery on display in the ever popular women over 40 thread, I'm betting my company is quite vast. And it is all demonstrative of a trend I consider destructive and something that at some point needs to be reigned in. Much the way your namesake thinks salary caps are in order for the over all well-being of the prem. I was merely making a point and wasn't the only one to claim a bit of hypocrisy had crept in to the issue. It was not a judgment of any posters or this forum. I fully realize I have no business posting on a mostly male football forum if I don't expect to see some female T&A. Although I actually only visit here for the food/cooking thread and the hope that someday I can have an NFR talk with someone about how hot Jonathan Spector is.
Apologies for assuming you were a gent, the name duffbeer got me!
Whilst I agree in general with what you say, and you have personal experience of discrimination/sexism there is not really a way for me to respond without sounding like a total idiot, but here it goes.
I think Andy Gray needed to be sacked because it was a symbolic gesture more than anything. The 'man' had been caught red handed saying completely incorrect things. It is sad to think, but I am sure there is a section of the population out there who take what Mr.Gray says as gospel so Sky sent a real message to those who think that women and football don't mix.
As for the objectification of women, whilst it is obviously a serious issue, I am not sure if this context is right to bring it up in. You mention the women over 40 thread and say you are not judging people on this forum but surely that is precisely what you are doing by saying that hipocrisy has crept in.
Now 'The Mirror' turn their guns on Richard Keys -
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Richard-Keys-Andy-Gray-sexism-NEW-video-Did-you-smash-it-NEW-Richard-Keys-Sky-Sports-video-sparks-ANOTHER-row-watch-it-here-article682265.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Richard-Keys-Andy-Gray-sexism-NEW-video-Did-you-smash-it-NEW-Richard-Keys-Sky-Sports-video-sparks-ANOTHER-row-watch-it-here-article682265.html)
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/mirror-football-blog/Andy-Gray-sacked-How-to-replace-Sky-Sports-sexists-Richard-Keys-and-Gray-with-Jamie-Redknapp-Ian-Holloway-Gary-Neville-Ben-Shepherd-Robbie-Savage-Graeme-Souness-Alan-Green-Kelly-Cates-Claire-Tomlinson-as-replacements-article681589.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/mirror-football-blog/Andy-Gray-sacked-How-to-replace-Sky-Sports-sexists-Richard-Keys-and-Gray-with-Jamie-Redknapp-Ian-Holloway-Gary-Neville-Ben-Shepherd-Robbie-Savage-Graeme-Souness-Alan-Green-Kelly-Cates-Claire-Tomlinson-as-replacements-article681589.html)
Just catching up on this and nothing to say that's not been said, but would just like to congratulate Duffbeer on her superlative response #39.
Quote from: FatFreddysCat on January 25, 2011, 08:35:14 PM
The good thing to come out of all this is that there will be lots of legal stuff going on in the background so some bird will probably get loads of overtime doing the photo copying :54:
Aw puss I am desperately trying to think of something to bite with. You must be SO cold sitting on that river bank..............
Interesting point of view from the women who work there:
'There's been a culture of bullying and sexism at Sky for a long time'
Three women who held prominent positions at Sky Sports describe a 'lads' club' and a 'climate of fear'
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Comments (80)
Matt Scott
The Guardian, Wednesday 26 January 2011
Article history
Richard Keys and Andy Gray were part of a Sky Sports culture which 'looked down' on women, claim insiders. Photograph: Mike Egerton/Empics Sport
The only surprise about the events leading to Andy Gray's sacking as the most famous voice in football yesterday was that he had not made a similar gaffe in public before. That is the view of three women who have all held frontline roles at Sky Sports.
Fearing repercussions that could harm their careers if they were identified, the three spoke to the Guardian on condition of anonymity. But despite talking separately, their views echoed each other's; each describing the bullying and sexist culture they feel Gray and his co-presenter, Richard Keys, have fostered.
One former Sky journalist said: "It came as absolutely no surprise to me to see this. The surprise is that we haven't seen more. It's the kind of language and vocabulary that is used within the Sky football department all the time."
Another, who still works for Sky, said: "There are many stories of their shocking behaviour. [Gray and Keys] are hated by the crews. It's a climate of fear pervading. But as long as everyone is laughing and it's a joke it's all right isn't it? I believe sexism is systemic and not openly challenged but goes underground or disguised as jokes or 'just banter'."
The third separately cited how "just banter" is claimed as a defence, and explained why that claim holds no water. "Live football is well known as something everyone wants to work on. But no one wants to work with those two. They took the piss out of a runner for having no money. It's nasty bullying with an edge. It's not just banter."
All three women agree that Barney Francis, who has been managing director of Sky Sports since his appointment 18 months ago, has improved matters. His decision yesterday summarily to dismiss Gray shows that he will scarcely indulge a chauvinistic culture any longer. One said: "There has been a culture of bullying and sexism around Sky for a very long time, but recently Sky have been managing the bullying a lot better through changes in management. There were rumours of people being told off and that bullying behaviour was unacceptable."
Yet despite the positive steps made by Francis, the women all expressed a feeling that there must be more widespread surgery to eradicate what they described as a patriarchy that limits women's promotion prospects. "There's this blokey vibe and it's like a lads' club," said one. "At the BBC the head of sport is Barbara Slater. Sky are a long way from that situation.
"During my time at Sky Sports News it wasn't hidden that women were appointed to present on it primarily because of the way they looked. You can see how Andy and Richard are behaving like that because the people at the top have employed people without any experience. Clearly that's sexist and it means at Sky you are always looked down on as a woman involved in sport, full stop."
That view chimed with another's view. She said: "You'd get bosses saying, 'It's just fruit on the barrow.' I found it a very sexist working environment. The production staff found it incredibly frustrating: they're younger for a start than the management.
"But it permeated through the whole culture. When Sky Sports News first started the girls were in suits. Sky was still about the image but they wanted women who were interested in sport. "Any monkey can read an autocue and you can't build passion for what you do from nothing. But if you're a woman you were there as decoration. Anything else was a bonus. It's not that there is a criterion about how the girls look. It's that it is the main criterion."
Sky told the Guardian that it hires its presenters principally for their abilities as journalists and presenters. Nonetheless, one of the former Sky journalists pointed out that the fact that Gray and Keys's unreconstructed comments were leaked into the public domain reflects the glee that Sky employees would feel at their downfall.
"I think deep down Richard and Andy are just bullies," she said. "They bully new men in the game as well. It's how they operate. They don't have many friends there but after 20 years they've always been at the top of the game and earning a ridiculous amount of money, so I guess who's laughing?
"But they have ruled the roost for a long time and upset people for a long time. They got into bother with someone who had a schadenfreude motive. I am just surprised that you have a broadcaster with experience of 20 years talking like that in front of a mic and not expecting it to get out. It was not the first time they were caught saying things they shouldn't say. They think they can get away with murder. How arrogant."
A Sky spokesman said last night: "There was evidence at the weekend and we took action. Today there has been new evidence and we have taken entirely appropriate action. If people are saying there is a culture of sexism here that shows we don't tolerate it."
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Sky-Sports-Richard-Keys-sexist-comments-totally-out-of-character-says-daughter-Jemma-Keys-article682503.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Sky-Sports-Richard-Keys-sexist-comments-totally-out-of-character-says-daughter-Jemma-Keys-article682503.html)
when sky use sex to sell sky with presenters like georgie thompson i dont see how they can take the moral highground. not only that but really what they got sacked for is fairly little on the face of it,i know ive said stuff to girls thats just as 'bad' and got some in return but its all tongue in cheek, unless of course they actually meant it.
but thank f*ck hes gone!
Quote from: White Noise on January 26, 2011, 11:06:47 AM
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Sky-Sports-Richard-Keys-sexist-comments-totally-out-of-character-says-daughter-Jemma-Keys-article682503.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Sky-Sports-Richard-Keys-sexist-comments-totally-out-of-character-says-daughter-Jemma-Keys-article682503.html)
'I have loads of black friends'
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on January 26, 2011, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: White Noise on January 26, 2011, 11:06:47 AM
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Sky-Sports-Richard-Keys-sexist-comments-totally-out-of-character-says-daughter-Jemma-Keys-article682503.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Sky-Sports-Richard-Keys-sexist-comments-totally-out-of-character-says-daughter-Jemma-Keys-article682503.html)
'I have loads of black friends'
Favoured phrase of the bigot. I also like 'its political correctness gone mad'. Still, you have got to say Richard Keys' daughter is a looker. Out of ten I'd give her one.
Richard Keys David Brent : How could I hate women? My mum's one.
The Daily Mail is really gunning for Gray -
Had Andy Gray not been born with the ability to head a ball extremely hard into the back of a net, one wonders what would have become of him.
As a young man he was cursed with a face only a mother could love; a sallow, greasy complexion which led to acne well into his 20s, topped with a curly mop of hair so unruly he was surely grateful for the early onset of male pattern baldness.
Thanks to his abilities as a footballer, however, such concerns were mere trifles.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1350591/Andy-Gray-sacking-Countless-affairs-love-children-sordid-truth-pundit.html#ixzz1C931FQ7R (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1350591/Andy-Gray-sacking-Countless-affairs-love-children-sordid-truth-pundit.html#ixzz1C931FQ7R)
ouch!
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Richard-Keys-sexism-sacking-Sky-Sports-presenter-on-the-brink-of-sack-after-Smash-it-video-EXCLUSIVE-article682607.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Richard-Keys-sexism-sacking-Sky-Sports-presenter-on-the-brink-of-sack-after-Smash-it-video-EXCLUSIVE-article682607.html)
Quote from: Lork on January 26, 2011, 12:00:09 PM
when sky use sex to sell sky with presenters like georgie thompson i dont see how they can take the moral highground. not only that but really what they got sacked for is fairly little on the face of it,i know ive said stuff to girls thats just as 'bad' and got some in return but its all tongue in cheek, unless of course they actually meant it.
but thank f*ck hes gone!
And to top it off the entire SSN female contingemt have posed in lads mags including the very sexy charlotte jackson in her smalls!
Double standards, women can cash in on their looks but the moment you make an innuendo, joke or risque comment one as a man you are villainised. There is an overcompensation from women in all jobs and a massive level of hypocrisy about their behaviour!
Quote from: os5889 on January 26, 2011, 02:48:07 PM
Quote from: Lork on January 26, 2011, 12:00:09 PM
when sky use sex to sell sky with presenters like georgie thompson i dont see how they can take the moral highground. not only that but really what they got sacked for is fairly little on the face of it,i know ive said stuff to girls thats just as 'bad' and got some in return but its all tongue in cheek, unless of course they actually meant it.
but thank f*ck hes gone!
And to top it off the entire SSN female contingemt have posed in lads mags including the very sexy charlotte jackson in her smalls!
Double standards, women can cash in on their looks but the moment you make an innuendo, joke or risque comment one as a man you are villainised. There is an overcompensation from women in all jobs and a massive level of hypocrisy about their behaviour!
'
innuendo, joke or risque comment' I dont think that saying 'women should not be linesmen because they are women' is a joke, particularly not in the context.
There is a line here, and these two F*** wits stepped over it.
I think women should be allowed to referee if they are good enough, this girl clearly appears top drawer in fact she made one of the shouts of the season in the Wolves game.
In a very male world though as football is you'd expect lads to be lads and to me thats all it seemed to be, nobody was hurt, someone told these two their microphones had been turned off, clearly they weren't, the videos that have come out are no worse banter than I encountered while running a large retail store, university, PhD or in financial sevices.
I think this is political correctness gone bonkers, we'll all be personality devoid homogenous robots soon as expressing an opinion, smiling will be outlawed.
Be honest, have you never cracked a line about women drivers, the offside rule, cricket or used the line its a man thing?
Have you never been called a Bstaard just for being a man, have you never been made to do a medial task because its wrong for the girls to do it even when its not? have you never been called disorganised, unable to multi-task and lazy for being a bloke even when you are not?
I dislike AG and RK with a passion but in this case the furore has driven me over the edge at the reasoning and fear motivating all these decisions!
Evebn the captain of the womens football team came out and said this was banter no worse than they themselves inflict on the mens teams they encounter!
Just heard the Richard Keys interview on Talksport - he apologises - then goes on the attack - and generally comes across as the arrogant tosser he is. He also said he is seriously considering resigning.
Best line from him -
"Now, there are some dark forces at work here"
Anyone who says that about a Murdoch company had better resign and quickly. :doh:
Quote from: os5889 on January 26, 2011, 03:07:56 PM
I think women should be allowed to referee if they are good enough, this girl clearly appears top drawer in fact she made one of the shouts of the season in the Wolves game.
In a very male world though as football is you'd expect lads to be lads and to me thats all it seemed to be, nobody was hurt, someone told these two their microphones had been turned off, clearly they weren't, the videos that have come out are no worse banter than I encountered while running a large retail store, university, PhD or in financial sevices.
I think this is political correctness gone bonkers, we'll all be personality devoid homogenous robots soon as expressing an opinion, smiling will be outlawed.
Be honest, have you never cracked a line about women drivers, the offside rule, cricket or used the line its a man thing?
Have you never been called a Bstaard just for being a man, have you never been made to do a medial task because its wrong for the girls to do it even when its not? have you never been called disorganised, unable to multi-task and lazy for being a bloke even when you are not?
I dislike AG and RK with a passion but in this case the furore has driven me over the edge at the reasoning and fear motivating all these decisions!
Evebn the captain of the womens football team came out and said this was banter no worse than they themselves inflict on the mens teams they encounter!
I just dont think that it is very funny joking about Women's ability to do things, and I hope these kind of jokes go the same way as racist ones have over the last few years.
Also, since when did saying outrageous things become acceptable if you justified it as 'banter'? Oh, he shouldnt be a linesman because he is black, dont worry it is just banter....
I am all for people expressing themselves but treating people differently because they are black/female/asian etc is bang out of order.
Stewart Lee - 9 - Political Correctness - 41st Best Stand-Up ever (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo#)
Nice work here -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1350616/Andy-Gray-Richard-Keys-apologise-sexism-scandal.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1350616/Andy-Gray-Richard-Keys-apologise-sexism-scandal.html)
"Redknapp hanging out the back of it."
Quote from: os5889 on January 26, 2011, 03:07:56 PM
Evebn the captain of the womens football team came out and said this was banter no worse than they themselves inflict on the mens teams they encounter!
Kelly Smith said the direct opposite -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1350503/Andy-Gray-Richard-Keys-evil-tone-sexism-means-theyve-lost-respect.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1350503/Andy-Gray-Richard-Keys-evil-tone-sexism-means-theyve-lost-respect.html)
@AFC
Have you read Lee's book? If you're a fan you should, it's really good.
What a lot of over the top b ollock s, incidently something a female lineswomen will never have :hook:
Quote from: ImperialWhite on January 26, 2011, 03:19:00 PM
@AFC
Have you read Lee's book? If you're a fan you should, it's really good.
No, but it is on my list of things to read.
Stuart Lee is a fantastic comedian, I am kicking myself that I have not seen him live!
Quote from: White Noise on January 26, 2011, 03:15:59 PM
Quote from: os5889 on January 26, 2011, 03:07:56 PM
Evebn the captain of the womens football team came out and said this was banter no worse than they themselves inflict on the mens teams they encounter!
Kelly Smith said the direct opposite -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1350503/Andy-Gray-Richard-Keys-evil-tone-sexism-means-theyve-lost-respect.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1350503/Andy-Gray-Richard-Keys-evil-tone-sexism-means-theyve-lost-respect.html)
There was an article on the beeb on Monday, I cant find it, anyway if I've got that wrong I take it back. I just dont like this debacle 1 bit at all. I'll agree to disagree with this one though. Ironically the women in our office all thought it was a bit extreme to sack one/both of them even after all the videos.
Quote from: White Noise on January 26, 2011, 03:14:34 PM
Nice work here -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1350616/Andy-Gray-Richard-Keys-apologise-sexism-scandal.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1350616/Andy-Gray-Richard-Keys-apologise-sexism-scandal.html)
"Redknapp hanging out the back of it."
I saw the video for that too - basically him in the studio with Souness and Redknapp etc. Does look and sound awful when you see it like that.
Can't see him keeping his job but I do think that they have bene well and truly stitched up.
Quote from: Jimpav on January 26, 2011, 04:01:40 PM
Quote from: White Noise on January 26, 2011, 03:14:34 PM
Nice work here -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1350616/Andy-Gray-Richard-Keys-apologise-sexism-scandal.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1350616/Andy-Gray-Richard-Keys-apologise-sexism-scandal.html)
"Redknapp hanging out the back of it."
I saw the video for that too - basically him in the studio with Souness and Redknapp etc. Does look and sound awful when you see it like that.
Can't see him keeping his job but I do think that they have bene well and truly stitched up.
I dont think they have been stitched up. They are wearing mic's in a television studio. Surely you should wait until you are not being filmed to say racist/sexist things?
'I was stitched up' says Andy Gray. 'And stitching is a woman's job' he adds.
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on January 26, 2011, 03:14:26 PM
Quote from: os5889 on January 26, 2011, 03:07:56 PM
I think women should be allowed to referee if they are good enough, this girl clearly appears top drawer in fact she made one of the shouts of the season in the Wolves game.
In a very male world though as football is you'd expect lads to be lads and to me thats all it seemed to be, nobody was hurt, someone told these two their microphones had been turned off, clearly they weren't, the videos that have come out are no worse banter than I encountered while running a large retail store, university, PhD or in financial sevices.
I think this is political correctness gone bonkers, we'll all be personality devoid homogenous robots soon as expressing an opinion, smiling will be outlawed.
Be honest, have you never cracked a line about women drivers, the offside rule, cricket or used the line its a man thing?
Have you never been called a Bstaard just for being a man, have you never been made to do a medial task because its wrong for the girls to do it even when its not? have you never been called disorganised, unable to multi-task and lazy for being a bloke even when you are not?
I dislike AG and RK with a passion but in this case the furore has driven me over the edge at the reasoning and fear motivating all these decisions!
Evebn the captain of the womens football team came out and said this was banter no worse than they themselves inflict on the mens teams they encounter!
I just dont think that it is very funny joking about Women's ability to do things, and I hope these kind of jokes go the same way as racist ones have over the last few years.
Also, since when did saying outrageous things become acceptable if you justified it as 'banter'? Oh, he shouldnt be a linesman because he is black, dont worry it is just banter....
I am all for people expressing themselves but treating people differently because they are black/female/asian etc is bang out of order.
Stewart Lee - 9 - Political Correctness - 41st Best Stand-Up ever (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo#)
When are you going to post his funny bit then?
Jimmy Carr on Women - Live at the Apollo - BBC One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JHnMyiWNk4#noexternalembed)
Quote from: FatFreddysCat on January 25, 2011, 08:35:14 PM
The good thing to come out of all this is that there will be lots of legal stuff going on in the background so some bird will probably get loads of overtime doing the photo copying :54:
uh-huh, and she might even get the chance to read up on the offside rule, 'cos you know how they cannot understand such a thing, in between making the tea, of course ....
:hook: :dead horse:
For the American viewers amongst us ... perhaps they should chug off over to namby-pamby land and get some proper education.
Quote from: FatFreddysCat on January 26, 2011, 04:50:00 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on January 26, 2011, 03:14:26 PM
Quote from: os5889 on January 26, 2011, 03:07:56 PM
I think women should be allowed to referee if they are good enough, this girl clearly appears top drawer in fact she made one of the shouts of the season in the Wolves game.
In a very male world though as football is you'd expect lads to be lads and to me thats all it seemed to be, nobody was hurt, someone told these two their microphones had been turned off, clearly they weren't, the videos that have come out are no worse banter than I encountered while running a large retail store, university, PhD or in financial sevices.
I think this is political correctness gone bonkers, we'll all be personality devoid homogenous robots soon as expressing an opinion, smiling will be outlawed.
Be honest, have you never cracked a line about women drivers, the offside rule, cricket or used the line its a man thing?
Have you never been called a Bstaard just for being a man, have you never been made to do a medial task because its wrong for the girls to do it even when its not? have you never been called disorganised, unable to multi-task and lazy for being a bloke even when you are not?
I dislike AG and RK with a passion but in this case the furore has driven me over the edge at the reasoning and fear motivating all these decisions!
Evebn the captain of the womens football team came out and said this was banter no worse than they themselves inflict on the mens teams they encounter!
I just dont think that it is very funny joking about Women's ability to do things, and I hope these kind of jokes go the same way as racist ones have over the last few years.
Also, since when did saying outrageous things become acceptable if you justified it as 'banter'? Oh, he shouldnt be a linesman because he is black, dont worry it is just banter....
I am all for people expressing themselves but treating people differently because they are black/female/asian etc is bang out of order.
Stewart Lee - 9 - Political Correctness - 41st Best Stand-Up ever (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo#)
When are you going to post his funny bit then?
Stuart Lee is the 'thinking man's comedian'. Nothing here for you then Freddy :hook:
