Tom Cairney

[Southcoastffc]

If TC does what he usually does now (protects the ball, keeps things moving, passes well) and were to do so faster, and track back more, and shoot more often and be more aggressive in a controlled way, he'd probably be playing in a mid table Prem team.

[Twig]

Heard from someone on another post that Cairney has been playing through an injury and probably needs an op, so I'll give him credit for playing rather than give him grief

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

I read the same. It would explain a lot.

[The Rational Fan]

Your response Pimlico in some ways illustrates their point.

There is a bias with TC and due to past achievements (fully to his credit), he gets less scrutiny than others - IMO.

I completely disagree. I think he gets way more than a fair share of criticism by many posters. In my opinion he was far from our worst player yesterday, and almost never is but still he got his own thread criticizing him. But I haven't really noticed people not being allowed to criticize him. Disagreement is another thing, but that should be expected on a forum.

I would say that his past achievements are working against him rather than for him at the moment, as he seems to be held to a much higher standard than some players.

Have to agree, when I watched Fulham I noticed Tom Cairney's drop off in performance, but he was still better than some other players.

[ALG01]

Massively out of position a la ranieri, we needed to get arter off and drp tc deeper... his best position.
Totally wasted so advanced, parker showed zero imagination in how to cope with difficult circumstances.
As far as cav is concerned, now there is a serial wate of space, he is genuinely pointless.

not entirely if you're taking the piss or not

no i am serious, cav is a hard worker, seems a noce bloke but has preciouse little end product. loses possesion over nd over needlesly, always has to do something fancy dan, does not make the best of his ability and generally is a massive under achiever. i know the popular view is otherwise but frankly i am very underwhelned and can see why wolves have let him go

He's our second top scorer and top assist provider. He's been involved in (scored or assisted) significantly more goals than any player except Mitrovic. How is that "precious little end product"?

he was good at first cutting in from the left and getting his shots away.
the opposition woke up to that and stop him easilly now
as far as the stats for assists are concerned it is a stat that impresses me not.
when in possesion he runs with the ball, and more often than not goes down blind alleys and fails to release th ball early enough either losing possesion way too often. he has undoubted talent and frustates the hell out of me because he is totally underachieving playing for himself way too often and not thinking enough about the team. His work ethic is unquestionable but at the moment he would be best served on the bench just as knock was, he will come back a much better player when he realises his place is not assured.
I did not really think that it would be quite so necessary to spell out the blindingly obvious.

[Dr Quinzel]

Your response Pimlico in some ways illustrates their point.

There is a bias with TC and due to past achievements (fully to his credit), he gets less scrutiny than others - IMO.

I completely disagree. I think he gets way more than a fair share of criticism by many posters. In my opinion he was far from our worst player yesterday, and almost never is but still he got his own thread criticizing him. But I haven't really noticed people not being allowed to criticize him. Disagreement is another thing, but that should be expected on a forum.

I would say that his past achievements are working against him rather than for him at the moment, as he seems to be held to a much higher standard than some players.

I don't necessarily mean just on this forum - elsewhere too. That is my opinion of what I have seen at least.

Like it or not, he is the Captain so he gets more eyes on him. He is also a player who is at the very top of pay and has the most potential to control games on his own, so rightly, that comes with certain expectations.

It would be great if he could return to form of 17 and early 18, but with that being so long ago I don't know if that is possible. If it is, we have reason to be excited for the next few months. If not, maybe less so.

[bobbo]

Not in his best form but when he is he is the best midfielder in this league. I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt for a fair while longer.

yes me too
I'm finding his form downturn strange , he's been so good seasons before.

[Mince n Tatties]

Just had a look at some pages on the net,one is This is Futbol(whatever that means) and Tom getting plenty of stick,posts of should be dropped,stripped of captaincy, one assist against Derby in October,needs to be sold....lol
Are they really Fulham fans,twitter accounts by the look of it.

[Matt10]

Massively out of position a la ranieri, we needed to get arter off and drp tc deeper... his best position.
Totally wasted so advanced, parker showed zero imagination in how to cope with difficult circumstances.
As far as cav is concerned, now there is a serial wate of space, he is genuinely pointless.

not entirely if you're taking the piss or not

no i am serious, cav is a hard worker, seems a noce bloke but has preciouse little end product. loses possesion over nd over needlesly, always has to do something fancy dan, does not make the best of his ability and generally is a massive under achiever. i know the popular view is otherwise but frankly i am very underwhelned and can see why wolves have let him go

He's our second top scorer and top assist provider. He's been involved in (scored or assisted) significantly more goals than any player except Mitrovic. How is that "precious little end product"?

he was good at first cutting in from the left and getting his shots away.
the opposition woke up to that and stop him easilly now
as far as the stats for assists are concerned it is a stat that impresses me not.
when in possesion he runs with the ball, and more often than not goes down blind alleys and fails to release th ball early enough either losing possesion way too often. he has undoubted talent and frustates the hell out of me because he is totally underachieving playing for himself way too often and not thinking enough about the team. His work ethic is unquestionable but at the moment he would be best served on the bench just as knock was, he will come back a much better player when he realises his place is not assured.
I did not really think that it would be quite so necessary to spell out the blindingly obvious.

I appreciate someone attempting to use a less generic approach, but I can't say I've seen him "go down blind alleys" recently. Do you have an example? Genuinely asking because I play particular attention to TC's dribbling and vision. He wasn't dispossessed against Charlton or Boro either. He made one or two bad passes, primarily miscommunication ones, such as the one that was played wide to Bryan or BDR, who looked to both go for it, then give up.

I do not disagree with the fact he may need time on the bench. However, before the Boro match, he hadn't played since home to Stoke.

Again, thanks for being more descriptive, but I'm still struggling to see where the criticism is validated overall.

[Statto]

he was good at first cutting in from the left and getting his shots away.
the opposition woke up to that and stop him easilly now

Except Hull a couple of weeks ago.



And Reading the week before.

[Statto]

Massively out of position a la ranieri, we needed to get arter off and drp tc deeper... his best position.
Totally wasted so advanced, parker showed zero imagination in how to cope with difficult circumstances.
As far as cav is concerned, now there is a serial wate of space, he is genuinely pointless.

not entirely if you're taking the piss or not

no i am serious, cav is a hard worker, seems a noce bloke but has preciouse little end product. loses possesion over nd over needlesly, always has to do something fancy dan, does not make the best of his ability and generally is a massive under achiever. i know the popular view is otherwise but frankly i am very underwhelned and can see why wolves have let him go

He's our second top scorer and top assist provider. He's been involved in (scored or assisted) significantly more goals than any player except Mitrovic. How is that "precious little end product"?

he was good at first cutting in from the left and getting his shots away.
the opposition woke up to that and stop him easilly now
as far as the stats for assists are concerned it is a stat that impresses me not.
when in possesion he runs with the ball, and more often than not goes down blind alleys and fails to release th ball early enough either losing possesion way too often. he has undoubted talent and frustates the hell out of me because he is totally underachieving playing for himself way too often and not thinking enough about the team. His work ethic is unquestionable but at the moment he would be best served on the bench just as knock was, he will come back a much better player when he realises his place is not assured.
I did not really think that it would be quite so necessary to spell out the blindingly obvious.

I appreciate someone attempting to use a less generic approach, but I can't say I've seen him "go down blind alleys" recently. Do you have an example? Genuinely asking because I play particular attention to TC's dribbling and vision. He wasn't dispossessed against Charlton or Boro either. He made one or two bad passes, primarily miscommunication ones, such as the one that was played wide to Bryan or BDR, who looked to both go for it, then give up.

I do not disagree with the fact he may need time on the bench. However, before the Boro match, he hadn't played since home to Stoke.

Again, thanks for being more descriptive, but I'm still struggling to see where the criticism is validated overall.

Notwithstanding the thread title, this chain of posts is about Cavaleiro, not TC

[Matt10]

Massively out of position a la ranieri, we needed to get arter off and drp tc deeper... his best position.
Totally wasted so advanced, parker showed zero imagination in how to cope with difficult circumstances.
As far as cav is concerned, now there is a serial wate of space, he is genuinely pointless.

not entirely if you're taking the piss or not

no i am serious, cav is a hard worker, seems a noce bloke but has preciouse little end product. loses possesion over nd over needlesly, always has to do something fancy dan, does not make the best of his ability and generally is a massive under achiever. i know the popular view is otherwise but frankly i am very underwhelned and can see why wolves have let him go

He's our second top scorer and top assist provider. He's been involved in (scored or assisted) significantly more goals than any player except Mitrovic. How is that "precious little end product"?

he was good at first cutting in from the left and getting his shots away.
the opposition woke up to that and stop him easilly now
as far as the stats for assists are concerned it is a stat that impresses me not.
when in possesion he runs with the ball, and more often than not goes down blind alleys and fails to release th ball early enough either losing possesion way too often. he has undoubted talent and frustates the hell out of me because he is totally underachieving playing for himself way too often and not thinking enough about the team. His work ethic is unquestionable but at the moment he would be best served on the bench just as knock was, he will come back a much better player when he realises his place is not assured.
I did not really think that it would be quite so necessary to spell out the blindingly obvious.

I appreciate someone attempting to use a less generic approach, but I can't say I've seen him "go down blind alleys" recently. Do you have an example? Genuinely asking because I play particular attention to TC's dribbling and vision. He wasn't dispossessed against Charlton or Boro either. He made one or two bad passes, primarily miscommunication ones, such as the one that was played wide to Bryan or BDR, who looked to both go for it, then give up.

I do not disagree with the fact he may need time on the bench. However, before the Boro match, he hadn't played since home to Stoke.

Again, thanks for being more descriptive, but I'm still struggling to see where the criticism is validated overall.

Notwithstanding the thread title, this chain of posts is about Cavaleiro, not TC

Haha, well crap - my bad! @ALG01 disregard my lack of morning coffee then. Thanks Statto lol

[ALG01]

Massively out of position a la ranieri, we needed to get arter off and drp tc deeper... his best position.
Totally wasted so advanced, parker showed zero imagination in how to cope with difficult circumstances.
As far as cav is concerned, now there is a serial wate of space, he is genuinely pointless.

not entirely if you're taking the piss or not

no i am serious, cav is a hard worker, seems a noce bloke but has preciouse little end product. loses possesion over nd over needlesly, always has to do something fancy dan, does not make the best of his ability and generally is a massive under achiever. i know the popular view is otherwise but frankly i am very underwhelned and can see why wolves have let him go

He's our second top scorer and top assist provider. He's been involved in (scored or assisted) significantly more goals than any player except Mitrovic. How is that "precious little end product"?

he was good at first cutting in from the left and getting his shots away.
the opposition woke up to that and stop him easilly now
as far as the stats for assists are concerned it is a stat that impresses me not.
when in possesion he runs with the ball, and more often than not goes down blind alleys and fails to release th ball early enough either losing possesion way too often. he has undoubted talent and frustates the hell out of me because he is totally underachieving playing for himself way too often and not thinking enough about the team. His work ethic is unquestionable but at the moment he would be best served on the bench just as knock was, he will come back a much better player when he realises his place is not assured.
I did not really think that it would be quite so necessary to spell out the blindingly obvious.

I appreciate someone attempting to use a less generic approach, but I can't say I've seen him "go down blind alleys" recently. Do you have an example? Genuinely asking because I play particular attention to TC's dribbling and vision. He wasn't dispossessed against Charlton or Boro either. He made one or two bad passes, primarily miscommunication ones, such as the one that was played wide to Bryan or BDR, who looked to both go for it, then give up.

I do not disagree with the fact he may need time on the bench. However, before the Boro match, he hadn't played since home to Stoke.

Again, thanks for being more descriptive, but I'm still struggling to see where the criticism is validated overall.

Love TC, clearly being played out of position and is our best player by a country mile.He was though poor second half V charlton with uncustomary misplaced passes
I was talking about cav, I am not sure if that was clear.
IMO cav goes down the blind alleys, TC does not.
I will dip out here because I think i have confused everyone and probably myself too!
:-)

[Matt10]

Massively out of position a la ranieri, we needed to get arter off and drp tc deeper... his best position.
Totally wasted so advanced, parker showed zero imagination in how to cope with difficult circumstances.
As far as cav is concerned, now there is a serial wate of space, he is genuinely pointless.

not entirely if you're taking the piss or not

no i am serious, cav is a hard worker, seems a noce bloke but has preciouse little end product. loses possesion over nd over needlesly, always has to do something fancy dan, does not make the best of his ability and generally is a massive under achiever. i know the popular view is otherwise but frankly i am very underwhelned and can see why wolves have let him go

He's our second top scorer and top assist provider. He's been involved in (scored or assisted) significantly more goals than any player except Mitrovic. How is that "precious little end product"?

he was good at first cutting in from the left and getting his shots away.
the opposition woke up to that and stop him easilly now
as far as the stats for assists are concerned it is a stat that impresses me not.
when in possesion he runs with the ball, and more often than not goes down blind alleys and fails to release th ball early enough either losing possesion way too often. he has undoubted talent and frustates the hell out of me because he is totally underachieving playing for himself way too often and not thinking enough about the team. His work ethic is unquestionable but at the moment he would be best served on the bench just as knock was, he will come back a much better player when he realises his place is not assured.
I did not really think that it would be quite so necessary to spell out the blindingly obvious.

I appreciate someone attempting to use a less generic approach, but I can't say I've seen him "go down blind alleys" recently. Do you have an example? Genuinely asking because I play particular attention to TC's dribbling and vision. He wasn't dispossessed against Charlton or Boro either. He made one or two bad passes, primarily miscommunication ones, such as the one that was played wide to Bryan or BDR, who looked to both go for it, then give up.

I do not disagree with the fact he may need time on the bench. However, before the Boro match, he hadn't played since home to Stoke.

Again, thanks for being more descriptive, but I'm still struggling to see where the criticism is validated overall.

Love TC, clearly being played out of position and is our best player by a country mile.He was though poor second half V charlton with uncustomary misplaced passes
I was talking about cav, I am not sure if that was clear.
IMO cav goes down the blind alleys, TC does not.
I will dip out here because I think i have confused everyone and probably myself too!
:-)

Haha, I should too then. I agree about Cav though regarding the blind alleys. He dribbles at times when he should pass, and passes when he should dribble. His attitude and desire are there though, so I'm good with it. Wish some teams wouldn't have figured out his cut inside move and shoot though - exactly how you said. They started bringing back their defensive midfielders so deep and even relinquished width, which is why we started to get a lot more crosses off lately. The Charlton match was less cross-filled because it seemed that the players felt less confident to send a high cross to BDR - imagine that :)

See, I tried to recover!

[junior white]

The only thing I will say re the Charlton game was 4 central midfielders on the pitch that didn't seem aright and I think it affected our performance greatly.

Given No Mitrovic, Knockeart or AK, would have made sense (and I hate this formation) to go 5-3-2 and use Reid and Cav through the middle with a licence to roam wide with Onomah running in from midfield.

I would have gone

Rodak

Christie
Hector
Ream
Odoi / Kongolo (not sure if Kongolo had time to settle in with the team)
Bryan

KMac
TC
Onomah

Reid
Cav

Will also say I thought Arter walked a very tight line booking wise, seemed on the edge all the time

[Jims Dentist]

The only thing I will say re the Charlton game was 4 central midfielders on the pitch that didn't seem aright and I think it affected our performance greatly.

Given No Mitrovic, Knockeart or AK, would have made sense (and I hate this formation) to go 5-3-2 and use Reid and Cav through the middle with a licence to roam wide with Onomah running in from midfield.

I would have gone

Rodak

Christie
Hector
Ream
Odoi / Kongolo (not sure if Kongolo had time to settle in with the team)
Bryan

KMac
TC
Onomah

Reid
Cav

Will also say I thought Arter walked a very tight line booking wise, seemed on the edge all the time

Yes JW I pondered that selection.
In hindsight I didn't see much from After to justify his selection..

[WindyCity]

Besides Mitrovic, which of our players are better than Cavaleiro in your opinion?

Ok, fair question, based on my (as well as others) critique of Cav.  TBH, I don't think we have seen any one individual (save Mitro) really come to the fore, based on this sides very inconsistent season so far.  Some have had a very good game here or there, and I have acknowledged that even Cav has had some good outings.  I think if I had to single players out as being the best contributors so far to FFC's place in the standings, outside of Mitro, I might say Rodak and Reid.  But, I'm sure those two selections could be debated.  A very inconsistent team, very inconsistent individual performances so far this season.