Being Brave

[Andrew]

I think this is the new expression that is now used by our manager...we have to be brave.

I agree. But, and there is often a but, there is being Brave and there is being reckless and/or foolish.

For example,brave is hitting a long/quick pass to a player making a good run trying to create an opening rather than playing safe.

Reckless is being right footed on the left side of defence and trying to turn you opponent and losing possession. Foolish is taking on another defender unnecessarily after a good space having beaten a first.

Players holding the ball too long is foolish and reckless, moving it forward quickly is brave.

In the modern game I see to much 'bravery' which is more selfish and reckless.  I am bothered immensely by what I saw against Chelsea, it was too easy to say they have an expensive team with potent forwards...all the more reason to show them a bit more respect. A goal just after KO,m near the end of the first half and not long into the second speaks of too little respect for the opponent and perhaps naive tactics.

We had some very good spells of play but very hard season ahead I think.

[ffcthereligion]

I agree. I winced at the ideological tripe I was hearing afterwards about 'we're going to try to play in this way no matter who is in front of us' alongside the usual cliches about 'character', 'personality' and as you say 'bravery'. It reeks of ange/bielsa/kompany. Any team must defend properly to survive in the premier league and i hope we learn the necessary lessons from last night

[Moussa Dembele the 3rd]

Spot on. There's a difference between being brave and being stupid. On the first two goals Robinson was one of our furthest forward players, pushing way, way up. Palacios was in nowhere land basically not playing any discernable position at all. Leaving our entire left flank to be defended by only Cuenca and one of Berge or Iwobi. Suicidal tactics. The fact that it was so obvious and no changes were made until the 70th minute worry me going forward with Arbeloa. Hopefully he proves me wrong and makes the necessary tactical/personnel tweaks.

[hovewhite]

Being fair there first two goals they went through us easier than butter.

[RaySmith]

Have to give our new manager a chance, before writing him off. We moaned about us being too cautious under previous management.
Maybe people are right in their criticism, but early days yet.

We gave Chelsea a game, could well have got a least a point, and fought our way back into a game  which I thought we were out of- if only AR had been able to lob their keeper!

[Andrew]

Have to give our new manager a chance, before writing him off. We moaned about us being too cautious under previous management.
Maybe people are right in their criticism, but early days yet.

We gave Chelsea a game, could well have got a least a point, and fought our way back into a game  which I thought we were out of- if only AR had been able to lob their keeper!

You are 100% correct. We do have to give him time to settle in and prove himself. It would be useful if he said he would be pragmatic though, he sounds like postocoglu (no idea how to spell that and not worth looking it up). Being blinkered and too rigid in outlook is a disaster. A tree bends in the wind, an aeroplane wing has given, otherwise they break. His comments are of real concern.

When he says we cannot give away goals like that, as if his incorrect tactics were not a key feature of the obvious errors, it is a concern.

When he plays our best centre back out of position and we find Chelsea target that position, or at least exploit the weakness, it's a concern.


It may all work out for the best and king and sess score enough goals, but this doesn't feel right.

Maybe we'll win in style at Sunderland, I hope so.

[bencher]

This is where the players need to show some leadership on the pitch. Robinson, Bassey, Timothy, Berge and Iwobi are the senior players out there and while they need to listen to tactics they also need to use their experience.

But it's very early days and the window is not shut yet. AA is still learning what works and who his best 11 is.

Iraola took about 10 games to bed in and figure out the PL and since then has done really well. Glasner also needed some time.

[Andrew]

Have to give our new manager a chance, before writing him off. We moaned about us being too cautious under previous management.
Maybe people are right in their criticism, but early days yet.

We gave Chelsea a game, could well have got a least a point, and fought our way back into a game  which I thought we were out of- if only AR had been able to lob their keeper!

You are 100% correct. We do have to give him time to settle in and prove himself. It would be useful if he said he would be pragmatic though, he sounds like postocoglu (no idea how to spell that and not worth looking it up). Being blinkered and too rigid in outlook is a disaster. A tree bends in the wind, an aeroplane wing has given, otherwise they break. His comments are of real concern.

When he says we cannot give away goals like that, as if his incorrect tactics were not a key feature of the obvious errors, it is a concern.

When he plays our best centre back out of position and we find Chelsea target that position, or at least exploit the weakness, it's a concern.


It may all work out for the best and king and sess score enough goals, but this doesn't feel right.

Maybe we'll win in style at Sunderland, I hope so.

[Andrew]

This is where the players need to show some leadership on the pitch. Robinson, Bassey, Timothy, Berge and Iwobi are the senior players out there and while they need to listen to tactics they also need to use their experience.

But it's very early days and the window is not shut yet. AA is still learning what works and who his best 11 is.

Iraola took about 10 games to bed in and figure out the PL and since then has done really well. Glasner also needed some time.

The concern was that he has a fixed idea about how to play, like ange. the other two you mention did start slowly but didn't, to my recollection, say daft things like Ange. It is early days and we all want him to come good, we shall have to wait and see.

[General]

Agreed and therein lies the challenge. If we can play the way we did against Chelsea in terms of possession and competitiveness and our attacking play in particular, with that fluidity, and we figure out our defence and midfield properly, then we can really kick on and that's the exciting part. It does feel like we're close to a break through, but we need a few more players in the doors to make it happen and give us the players who can adapt and understand the style properly. If we do that, then I'm more positive than worried.

[EN1 FFC]

Its been shown in pre-season that our full backs have been up in attack and having shots on goal.
Against Chelsea Robinson, Castagne & Sessegnon all had shots on goal, but if that's the tactics then we need players like in the Hodgson era of the calibre of Duff & Davies who were capable of backing up defending the wide areas. Both had been fullback who became wingers during their careers. Not sure Kevin, Bobb, Palacios, etc, with the exception of Sessegnon, have that mentality yet. 

[Arthur]

I watched a re-run of the game last night because I wanted to be sure of my opinion. It gave me the opportunity to look more carefully at our play. Spectating In the ground I was impressed by our overall performance and the re-run has not changed my thinking.

Reading the criticisms of our approach to the game, in this thread and others, I think back to our loss to Arsenal at the back end of last season. In that match, we were very much safety first: cautious; conservative; against a team of such quality, we were taking no risks. Yet we still conceded three. And this without ever laying a glove on Arsenal throughout the entire game.

My point, here, is that the very best players, on their day, are capable of unpicking our defence whatever our system. And if they do, as happened at Arsenal and also with Cole Palmer on Monday night, I'd far rather we at least tried to give our opponents a bloody nose than to fall to a timid defeat having not even tested them. This, to me, is the worst way of all to lose. For this reason, I'm not critical of the way in which Arbeloa set us up to play. I would rather we were prepared to take calculated risks to try to gain more, across the course of a season, than we lose.

The way in which we improve, in my opinion, is not by rolling back our new style of play, but through better decisions by individual players. It's daft, in my opinion, to think Arbeloa wouldn't coach any player to choose a different option or take up a different position simply on the basis he reaffirmed, post-match, his belief in his chosen style. (At a guess, it may be he would rather Leno hadn't committed to the corner of the six-yard box prior to Chelsea's second goal, nor Bassey left his position on the halfway line to challenge for a headed ball ten yards inside the Chelsea half when Pedro is in the centre circle – as was the case seconds before we conceded the third.)

Although the result was not what I wanted, I found watching the game quite exhilarating. Ups and downs, indeed, but there was always the prospect we might do something exciting - and many times, we did - and I welcome that. It seems a shame the O.P. is 'bothered immensely' by our performance and has already resigned himself to a 'very hard season ahead'. We'll be watching the same matches but, seemingly, one of us will be enjoying them far more than the other.

[Moussa Dembele the 3rd]

I watched a re-run of the game last night because I wanted to be sure of my opinion. It gave me the opportunity to look more carefully at our play. Spectating In the ground I was impressed by our overall performance and the re-run has not changed my thinking.

Reading the criticisms of our approach to the game, in this thread and others, I think back to our loss to Arsenal at the back end of last season. In that match, we were very much safety first: cautious; conservative; against a team of such quality, we were taking no risks. Yet we still conceded three. And this without ever laying a glove on Arsenal throughout the entire game.

My point, here, is that the very best players, on their day, are capable of unpicking our defence whatever our system. And if they do, as happened at Arsenal and also with Cole Palmer on Monday night, I'd far rather we at least tried to give our opponents a bloody nose than to fall to a timid defeat having not even tested them. This, to me, is the worst way of all to lose. For this reason, I'm not critical of the way in which Arbeloa set us up to play. I would rather we were prepared to take calculated risks to try to gain more, across the course of a season, than we lose.

The way in which we improve, in my opinion, is not by rolling back our new style of play, but through better decisions by individual players. It's daft, in my opinion, to think Arbeloa wouldn't coach any player to choose a different option or take up a different position simply on the basis he reaffirmed, post-match, his belief in his chosen style. (At a guess, it may be he would rather Leno hadn't committed to the corner of the six-yard box prior to Chelsea's second goal, nor Bassey left his position on the halfway line to challenge for a headed ball ten yards inside the Chelsea half when Pedro is in the centre circle – as was the case seconds before we conceded the third.)

Although the result was not what I wanted, I found watching the game quite exhilarating. Ups and downs, indeed, but there was always the prospect we might do something exciting - and many times, we did - and I welcome that. It seems a shame the O.P. is 'bothered immensely' by our performance and has already resigned himself to a 'very hard season ahead'. We'll be watching the same matches but, seemingly, one of us will be enjoying them far more than the other.

My criticism is more about personnel matching the tactics, not the tactics themselves. I love the attacking mindset Arbeloa has instilled in the squad. However, I thought Palacios was an absolute disaster on the left wing. In my opinion, it was dumb of Arbeloa to start a kid with no premier league experience or experience playing off of Robinson, while also telling Robinson to be our furthest forward player on the left for most of the match. That's all.

[Jim©]

it was dumb of Arbeloa to start a kid with no premier league experience

Did you watch pre season? Arbeloa has been watching him for 3 or 4 years, I'm sure he has an idea of his capabilities that is superior to your or my view.
Besides, we got annoyed with Silva for never using new players for months. And the lad's got to play Premier league to get premier league experience.

Also, I agree with much of what Arthur says above- I liked the way we went at them rather than meekly just watching the game pass us by.

[Moussa Dembele the 3rd]

it was dumb of Arbeloa to start a kid with no premier league experience

Did you watch pre season? Arbeloa has been watching him for 3 or 4 years, I'm sure he has an idea of his capabilities that is superior to your or my view.
Besides, we got annoyed with Silva for never using new players for months. And the lad's got to play Premier league to get premier league experience.

Also, I agree with much of what Arthur says above- I liked the way we went at them rather than meekly just watching the game pass us by.

I did watch pre-season, but pre-season friendlies are meaningless. Also, I'm not against playing the young guys, but don't start them out of position against really tough opponents on the first game of the season.

[WindyCity]

I'm looking for points over next two games, and looking to see what type of tweaks and adjustments are made to make us not so open against the counter, some back line defense and midfield adjustments.  If it's more of same ol' same ol', and no points are garnished, then I'll start worrying.....

[DadCreature]

Being brave is attacking in waves, like we saw Monday, after building an absolute rock of a defense behind them.   Still a few days to make those upgrades.

[alfie]

it was dumb of Arbeloa to start a kid with no premier league experience

Did you watch pre season? Arbeloa has been watching him for 3 or 4 years, I'm sure he has an idea of his capabilities that is superior to your or my view.
Besides, we got annoyed with Silva for never using new players for months. And the lad's got to play Premier league to get premier league experience.

Also, I agree with much of what Arthur says above- I liked the way we went at them rather than meekly just watching the game pass us by.

I did watch pre-season, but pre-season friendlies are meaningless. Also, I'm not against playing the young guys, but don't start them out of position against really tough opponents on the first game of the season.

If they are meaningless why do clubs do them ?

[Moussa Dembele the 3rd]

it was dumb of Arbeloa to start a kid with no premier league experience

Did you watch pre season? Arbeloa has been watching him for 3 or 4 years, I'm sure he has an idea of his capabilities that is superior to your or my view.
Besides, we got annoyed with Silva for never using new players for months. And the lad's got to play Premier league to get premier league experience.

Also, I agree with much of what Arthur says above- I liked the way we went at them rather than meekly just watching the game pass us by.

I did watch pre-season, but pre-season friendlies are meaningless. Also, I'm not against playing the young guys, but don't start them out of position against really tough opponents on the first game of the season.

If they are meaningless why do clubs do them ?

I don't know I guess I'm a moron.

[alfie]

it was dumb of Arbeloa to start a kid with no premier league experience

Did you watch pre season? Arbeloa has been watching him for 3 or 4 years, I'm sure he has an idea of his capabilities that is superior to your or my view.
Besides, we got annoyed with Silva for never using new players for months. And the lad's got to play Premier league to get premier league experience.

Also, I agree with much of what Arthur says above- I liked the way we went at them rather than meekly just watching the game pass us by.

I did watch pre-season, but pre-season friendlies are meaningless. Also, I'm not against playing the young guys, but don't start them out of position against really tough opponents on the first game of the season.

If they are meaningless why do clubs do them ?

I don't know I guess I'm a moron.

No I wouldn't say that, but a better answer would be have been preferred.