The young lad Dembele

[Big Martin Jol]

He's clearly a special talent but he's only just turned seventeen. How many forwards are ready to lead a line in the Premier League at that age?

To be fair he's already playing with the U21s rather than the U18s so it's not as if we're not building him up, but I think it's too early to drop him in at the deep end.

[Frankie-Peter Taylor]

I think one of the problems is, our team is almost "too good" for youth to come through, our fringe players are experienced footballers, that are just wasted wages if they are not used.

Back up RB: Zverotic
Back up CB: Senderos/Hughes
Back up LB: Riise

Back up RM: Duff
Back up CM: Boateng/Karagounis
Back up LM: Taarabt

Back up AM: Kasami
Back up ST: Bent/Rodallega

*Based on a standard 4411 of Steks; Riether, Hangeland, Amore, Richardson; Dejagah, Parker, Sidwell, Kacaniklic; Ruiz; Berbatov.

As elgreenio said, the step up from U21 football, to Premier League football, is a lot higher than U18 to U21, hence why the loan rule was used to our advantage with Alex Kacaniklic, and could be in the future with Dan Burn and Marcello Trotta.

I would expect Mousa Dembele to see out the majority of the year with the U21s, and with Berbatov and Bent possibly not being here next season, he may feature in pre-season.

Back to my original point, it would very bold of Martin Jol to chuck the likes of Dembele, Christensen, Burn, Passley and Trotta into the first team without a test and ahead of players like Rodallega, Boateng, Hughes etc.

[Furby]

Very interesting and well written article here on this exact debate.

http://cravencottagenewsround.wordpress.com/2013/11/05/naive-post-about-using-the-youngsters-more/

[Shredhead]

Perhaps Jol should wait until we're 4-0 up with 10 minutes left before replacing Berbatov with Dembele?

[Arthur]

Oh wait.... thats right.  Jol hates young players.

Hate him if you will, but at least use the truth to justify your hate rather than just manufacturing reasons.

Well said, TMcT. It's a ridiculous accusation.

[grandad]

The old adage of if they are good enough they are old enough applies. I think he should be given 30 mins to find out if he takes to it like a duck to water or not.

[Baszab]

U21s beat the first team on a regular basis at MP

[Rupert]

I think we are saving Dembele until we play Tottenham, then he will be given the last thirty minutes to hang around the Spurs area, and as the Spuds players will be so used to passing to Dembele, he will have enough chances to put four easy goals away and we win 4-3.   :airfix:

[Furby]

Just watching Juve vs Real, and Paul Pogba run the show in the first half. He's 20 years of age, left Man U because he wasn't given a chance and now playing comfortably in the Champions League. As Grandad says age shouldn't come into it if you've got the talent.

[MasterHaynes]

Even though its not much of a junp from U18 to U21 in most games he does seem to have the propensity to raise his game and adapt. He has a confidence in his ability to score from anywhere which is an asset. My worry would be before we give him a 15-20 minute run out in the premiership we make sure we have him signed up on a long contract because he has the ability to fire in a debut goal similar to Rooneys in which case we would lose him in the summer for the price of a development fee.

[OdecaMynoT]

The fear of failure looms like the 'Grim Reaper' for the decision makers regarding the fearless young players imo.

You have to admire Villa, So'ton,Arsenal in particular for putting their youngsters in the the deep end and watch them sink or swim.Dare I mention Manure and the 17 year old Januzaj.

When you watch the U21's & U18's the speed of passing/movement is breathtaking at times,reminiscent of Arsenal at their best,something the 1st team sadly lacks.

Kasami has stuck out like a beacon this season against the tired patchwork quilt of seasoned/journeyman professionals that make up our team.

As things stand the spectre of relegation is there for all to see. I really hope, against hope that we see the likes of Dembele/Mesca/Roberts thrust into the limelight, light up our team and give us,

the frazzled fans some optimism.

Oh yes and btw get rid of that donkey Ponderos.

[cmg]

An interesting thread about a very interesting player.

elgreenio is a knowledgeable man regarding the junior players and his caution is to be respected.

There is no doubt that his physique gave him a considerable advantage at u18 level and yet it was obvious thet there was much more to it than that. Quick, powerful, confident and outrageously skillful and yet sometimes incredibly naive - something that only experience would remedy.
He was rightly given early promotion to the u21s and looked a bit lost against Arsenal. It is greatly to his credit that he has adapted so quickly and it might well be that he is a quick learner. However it is simply not realistic to think that he might, with a handful of u21 appearances to his name, be capable of replacing Berbatov, Bent or Rodellega in trhe PL pecking order. In time (and, hopefully, in short time) he may prove superior to one (or all) of them.

An interesting comparison was drawn between him and Paul Pogba. The important difference (apart from the positions they play) is that Pogba is 20, Dembele is 17. Pogba was a monster, physically and talent-wise, at 17. At that stage he was exactly where Dembele is now, just starting to play for the u21s. At 18 he got a few minutes off the bench for Manchester United first team. He was 19 and a half when he  won a regular starting  spot at Juventus and now, with his 21st coming up in March is the established star he always promised to be.  We can only hope that Dembele's career follows a similar timeframe (although not, of course, at Juventus!).

[Furby]

CMG your last paragraph is my point. Pogba was only given a brief look in at Man U. So got fed up, let his contract run down and left to go Juve. Who's to say that Dembele won't progress like him? I'm not expecting him to replace any of the 3 you mentioned in the starting line up, but I believe he should be given the chance to at least a run out, especially as his confidence is sky high and use his naivety as a positive by trying things that experienced players wouldn't. Rooney's debut, Owens England debut goals spring to mind.

[MJG]

Knowing Jol he will throw him in against one of the big boys, give him 20 minutes and then never see him again.
Mesca anyone?

[west kowloon white]

At risk of derision,Robbie Fowlers Cottage debut-17?

[MJG]

At risk of derision,Robbie Fowlers Cottage debut-17?

Please dont bring that up I have only just started to get rid of the nightmares.

[BishopsParkFantastic]

Knowing Jol he will throw him in against one of the big boys, give him 20 minutes and then never see him again.
Mesca anyone?

.....and play him out of his natural position, to make the transition to the 1st team even more challenging!

[MJG]

Knowing Jol he will throw him in against one of the big boys, give him 20 minutes and then never see him again.
Mesca anyone?

.....and play him out of his natural position, to make the transition to the 1st team even more challenging!

And tell him to just run around

[Bill2]

How long till we see him in the first team squad?  Put another two away against Bolton U21s I see.  Hes been knocking them in for fun.  Has Jol noticed?  Oh wait.... thats right.  Jol hates young players.  I wont hold my breath.

We appear to have some good youngsters at the moment, my concern is that at these U21 and U17 games they are awash with scouts from every club in the Prem. I hope we have them on good contracts as if they are as good as everyone says we could be seeing them play 1st team football for somebody else.

[cmg]

CMG your last paragraph is my point. Pogba was only given a brief look in at Man U. So got fed up, let his contract run down and left to go Juve. Who's to say that Dembele won't progress like him? I'm not expecting him to replace any of the 3 you mentioned in the starting line up, but I believe he should be given the chance to at least a run out, especially as his confidence is sky high and use his naivety as a positive by trying things that experienced players wouldn't. Rooney's debut, Owens England debut goals spring to mind.

I take your point. Absolutely. You could, however argue it the other way - that Manchester United's delicate handling set him up for his subsequent success. It's the fascinating thing about watching young talent bloom - you can never tell what's going to happen.
In the past this hasn't mattered that much too us - the young talent was no more than very interesting. Right now we have a few, including Dembele, who just might be sensational.

I know the current sport is sniping at the Fulham organisation at every possible opportunity, but there must be something there. Noe Baba turned his back on Manchester United to come here and Dembele himself made the shift from PSG.

Not that I've anything against giving youth its earliest opportunity. I'm old enough to remember Alan Mullery's debut. A star from day one. He was 17.

My major fear in giving Dembele a similar early start is that we currently don't have people capable of providing service to the experienced internationals we currently have up front, much less to a young man learning his trade.