Will we ever see FFC back in the Premiership?

[ron]

..but if the second tier represents mediocrity, what does that say about the remainder of the pyramid?...and anyone else who plays football?

Surely another word should be used for the level itself...maybe just "second tier" does it?

[nose]

Some of us can remember Fulham second to bottom in the 3rd tier and losing to the first to  bottom. So if we have to stay in the 2nd tier for a while it would not be a disaster .   Its all relative.

I was at Torquay.
/quote]
Me too horrible night.
And to answer the original question NO not with Kit as manager.

i was due to go, always loved a trip to devon!
I cannot recall why now but I didn't in the end make it. What a disastorous period that was!

Will we make it back?
I do not see why not. wuith the right leadership and a bit of creative, imaginative thinking like getting a tiganna/keegan type in it would be possible. the current managemernt has absolutely no idea so whilst they remain in place it is less likely than more
Khan hasn't got the hang of what is needed yet in the way that MAF instinctively knew what needed to be done.

I suspect we are in for a long wait to go back up and I believe we are in far more danger of a trip down another division before mr khan finally wakes up and gets on the phone to ask my advice!

[Tonywa]

Some of us can remember Fulham second to bottom in the 3rd tier and losing to the first to  bottom. So if we have to stay in the 2nd tier for a while it would not be a disaster .   Its all relative.

I was at Torquay.
/quote]
Me too horrible night.
And to answer the original question NO not with Kit as manager.

I was at that Torquay game, but obviously your memory of it is very different from mine.  It was on a Saturday afternoon, not an evening game.

[Burt]

Yes pretty sure it was a Saturday afternoon too...

[win-dup]

The only ''vision'' Ernie Khan has is of flogging off the Cottage for flats and making himself even richer.

[Logicalman]

The only ''vision'' Ernie Khan has is of flogging off the Cottage for flats and making himself even richer.

I would be interested in your proof of that statement. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing it, just want to see how you came to that conclusion.

[rogerpbackinMidEastUS]

What a lot of people seem to forget is Mr Khan's pride and reputation as a successful businessman, which will obviously be extremely important to him.
He must be hurting inside right now.

I can't imagine for one moment he's in his office brushing aside 'Fulham Things"  with "Not now I'm far too busy"

Having inherited people, dismissed people, brought in who he was told were the best people, been swayed by many of us fans who wished for Kit (possibly an example of his loyalty to fans) to be appinted, Listened to their pleadings to sign CS experienced players, studied the FFP rules and constraints.
Has anyone considered he might be a bit more ethical and fiscally responsible than other owners who have 'splashed the cash' to get promoted, although QPR don't seem to have been penalized

He's a businessman for goodness sake, and American sports folk thrive on data and figures so he will know that playing Rotherham at home in the CS won't draw as big a crowd as playing teams like Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs etc on alternate weeks.
He runs loads of businesses I'm sure and like Branson, Trump, Slim and people of that financial ilk, he surrounds himself with the 'best available'
With us it's not been successful so far but with all of the recent turmoil and instability he's probably biding his time for a while longer.
If changes come in the not too distant future we will (hopefully) be a quick 'hop, skip and jump' to the play off places and then upwards.
I really don't think he's playing Ostrich, it's not in his interests.

Someone posted on here the other day about Kit's subs and did many of us question them at the time,
(that person for the most part was probably right although I admit Kit has made some howlers )
It doesn't matter how tired O'Hara may have been it was only 2-0 and he was controlling the midfield.

I still believe Mr Khan will come good and if/when we get to sustainability in the PS perhaps (NIMBYS permitting) we may even get two x 1,000' long screens and swimming pools on top of the Hammy End

[nose]

What a lot of people seem to forget is Mr Khan's pride and reputation as a successful businessman, which will obviously be extremely important to him.
He must be hurting inside right now.

I can't imagine for one moment he's in his office brushing aside 'Fulham Things"  with "Not now I'm far too busy"

Having inherited people, dismissed people, brought in who he was told were the best people, been swayed by many of us fans who wished for Kit (possibly an example of his loyalty to fans) to be appinted, Listened to their pleadings to sign CS experienced players, studied the FFP rules and constraints.
Has anyone considered he might be a bit more ethical and fiscally responsible than other owners who have 'splashed the cash' to get promoted, although QPR don't seem to have been penalized

He's a businessman for goodness sake, and American sports folk thrive on data and figures so he will know that playing Rotherham at home in the CS won't draw as big a crowd as playing teams like Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs etc on alternate weeks.
He runs loads of businesses I'm sure and like Branson, Trump, Slim and people of that financial ilk, he surrounds himself with the 'best available'
With us it's not been successful so far but with all of the recent turmoil and instability he's probably biding his time for a while longer.
If changes come in the not too distant future we will (hopefully) be a quick 'hop, skip and jump' to the play off places and then upwards.
I really don't think he's playing Ostrich, it's not in his interests.

Someone posted on here the other day about Kit's subs and did many of us question them at the time,
(that person for the most part was probably right although I admit Kit has made some howlers )
It doesn't matter how tired O'Hara may have been it was only 2-0 and he was controlling the midfield.

I still believe Mr Khan will come good and if/when we get to sustainability in the PS perhaps (NIMBYS permitting) we may even get two x 1,000' long screens and swimming pools on top of the Hammy End

roger, you know I love you, i have said so in public before!
BUT
I am not so sure he will come good and I am vastly worried what may come afterwards.
since he arrived we have gone backwards and he has failed to do the two most important things
1) deal with the failed CEO and board
2) turn up when things are wrong i.e. show leadership

these two matters are so staggeringly obvious that i fail to comprehend on any level how they are neglected. until these two things are properly rectified we will continue to slide. this is unfortunately the inevitable consequence of thinking you can run a profesional football team with a bunch of pretty PR men in key positions. as I said the three stooges we saw in the close season rang alarm bells. maybe mey doom mongering will not come true this season, but surely within two seasons we will be in lkeague one if Khan does not wake up, smell the coffee and take proper positive action and that means so some leadership.

I still love you even if you think he will turn it round by doing more of the same.

[mike_corkcity12]

Once we invest in a decent manager then I am sure Khan will go guns blazing for promotion. This summer has laid the foundations of a decent team. Next year we need a good management and continued success in the transfer market. Need to keep onto Dembele, fella could fire us to the league next year.

[Nick Bateman]

I'm with Nose on this one, Roger, and one admires your positivety.  But when one considers Americans in business are pretty ruthless, yet so many incompetants have been kept on board, one questions the desires of the head honcho, as you might refer to as.  One sees this model only duplicated by another American owner Randy Lerner, and he wants to get RID of his club!!

[Arthur]

We haven't lost attendance because we are "mediocre." Our attendances are where they are because we've lost the tourists...

...but the truth is that a huge segment of those filling "home" seats weren't the sort of folks to follow Fulham in the Championship regardless of their position in that league.

The idea that crowds are down because of Kit and Khan is a joke.

A plausible explanation, I'm sure, if you're the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, but it will not, in my view, resonate with too many who are still populating the ground on a regular basis. Yes, the tourists have gone. That, however, happened instantly. The decline that sees the home support down by a couple of thousand-or-so on last season are Fulham supporters. These fans are not switching their loyalty from Craven Cottage to Stamford Bridge, White Hart Lane or any other PL outfit; they are simply - reluctantly even - finding that the non-football alternative is increasingly proving to be their preferred choice. I suspect that few, if any, of those whose attendance hasn't wavered since the start of last season are not aware of somebody who comes into this category.

No, these fans are not citing Kit or Khan directly as the reason their tempered enthusiasm. It's the football: too frequently an uninspiring fare against less inspiring opposition. But it is Kit and Khan who have overseen much of this transition. It most certainly isn't a joke, therefore, to point the finger when searching for a more rounded explanation for the falling attendances.

[St Eve]

Can't agree with you Roger. As a successful businessman, with the money he has, you surround yourself with the best management team there is. He has failed in that area consistently and he has had several attempts

[Forever Fulham]

The unfortunate truth is that the average age of game attendees is getting older and older, regardless of which team is attractive to a London-bound tourist.  It's hard to grow the sport's in-attendance fan base when ticket prices are so mercilessly high, when for ever less money you can buy a big screen TV with high resolution, and watch the game in the comfort of your home (or a favourite watering hole), eat better food, and save your hard-earned money.  I like the smells of a stadium.  The views.  I like people watching.  And eavesdropping.  And the way the collective sweeps you up in the moment.  The anticipation of the dribbler breaking free, with a path towards goal, and only one more man to beat.  I like the duels, the whole pitch view where you can see the developing play, the team formation more clearly, the structure, the shape, the flow.  I like the stupid interruptions of the odd idiot around me, breaking the momentary silence after a promising play gets broken up.  Or not.  But we're all so busy.  With commitments and obligations.  And it's so easy now to get immediate news on the go.  On your smart phone.  Your tablet.  Your tv.  The laptop.  All of which makes in-person attendance for many seem so....so...inconvenient.  This is all a very real problem, and it's not getting fixed, not now anyway. 

[First State]

I'd say 5- 7 years is a safe bet....reality bitch slap.

[Twig]

Some of us can remember Fulham second to bottom in the 3rd tier and losing to the first to  bottom. So if we have to stay in the 2nd tier for a while it would not be a disaster .   Its all relative.

Wasn't that the 4th tier?

[RaySmith]

For me, you can't beat going to a game, experiencing the atmosphere and cheering the team on - it thus becomes an active- I am involved in the action, even if I can't actually play, rather than a passive, thing.

And for me, and I think for many, it's the price of tickets that mainly prevents me from going.

Well, there are other factors related to decline in attendance, like league division, how well the club is doing, and being able to see the game on TV- though outside the Prem this isn't  easy, as we know.

Yes, since the  50's and 60's , when football was a- maybe 'the' for working-class men and boys- major form of entertainment, other distractions have grown that impacted on  attendance at games - consumerism, DIY, home entertainment with videos, dvd's, big TV's, etc.

So, many things that cause the decline in crowd numbers from the 50's and 60's heyday, but for the older fan at least, I think cost is an important factor.

But Fulham crowds will increase if we  start competing for promotion in the Championship, let alone getting into the Prem. We have learned how league status and success affects crowds at Fulham, from our journey from the top division to the bottom division, and back again; then back again in the other direction.

[epsomraver]

Some of us can remember Fulham second to bottom in the 3rd tier and losing to the first to  bottom. So if we have to stay in the 2nd tier for a while it would not be a disaster .   Its all relative.

I was at Torquay.

According to this forum we had a crowd of 2000  fans that day!  :005:

[epsomraver]

I for one hope we do not go back, I prefer this league where on the day all teams can beat each other, gone are the days of playing Man C etc and being grateful for a 2-0 loss, boring round and round football , £50 to watch the likes of the filth,  the ground is more comfortable, less queues, genuine fans mostly, not full of tourists suits me fine

[Blanco]

I'm with Nose on this one, Roger, and one admires your positivety.  But when one considers Americans in business are pretty ruthless, yet so many incompetants have been kept on board, one questions the desires of the head honcho, as you might refer to as.  One sees this model only duplicated by another American owner Randy Lerner, and he wants to get RID of his club!!

One also thinks that when one uses the word one so much one sounds like a douche.

[Funky Fulham Dave]

Woolly Mammoth:

Perhaps its Fulham supporters like me that you're referring too who in your words are "supporters with mediocre ambitions?"

Well you better quickly get used to "second-tier mediocrity" for the foreseeable future.

The unpalatable truth of why we are not in the Premiership and are in a Championship mid-table position is because there are 30-other teams who are much, much better than us. It has nothing to do with "ambition" but everything to do with realism.

Hectoring other Fulham supporters because of their perceived lack of ambition will not make the slightest difference and is disrespectful.

Peace and love.