Who is most desperate for 3 points on Boxing Day, Fulham or West Ham

[FC Silver Fox]

Before answering, read the question again. I'm not asking who you think will win or want to win. Who really needs 3 points the most?

I can't make up my mind on this one. Our plucky lads will be up for it and we REALLY need those 3 points.  Wet Spam are really desperate (not only the manager).  However they may already be secretly resigned to their fate. Hopefully.

[BalDrick]

WHU most desperate for them - should we win we're a good distance from them, which may start the bottom 3 looking a bit isolated.

I fear this game, simply because they always bloody beat us.

[MJG]

WHU most desperate for them - should we win we're a good distance from them, which may start the bottom 3 looking a bit isolated.

I fear this game, simply because they always bloody beat us.

Beat me to it, that was pretty much what I was going to say. I would add that I don't think Fulham (and I include some fans in this) realise that we are in a relegation fight for the rest of the season. A lot of heads in the sand and "too good to go down" type talk.

[BalDrick]

'we are in a relegation fight for the rest of the season'

I'm not sure we are really, for the rest of the season - things are so tight down there a run of 4 games, say half won half drawn, and you've pulled a long way away. That said, we are in a relegation battle right now, no mistake. And the team/management need to pull their finger out and sort it out - there's been a lot of brown stuff thrown at Hughes, metaphorically, by me amongst others, but there are players out there that got us to the Europa final FFS.

[ImperialWhite]

Surely the answer's obvious?

If West Ham win then they'll be in the strongest position they've been in all season - off the bottom and a draw away from leaving the relegation zone.

Incidentally, as well as their decent record at Craven Cottage, their KUMB forum reckons they have a decent Boxing Day record too (although, like us, they believe that's likely that both of these records won't count for much given their woeful away record this season).

[ImperialWhite]

'we are in a relegation fight for the rest of the season'

I'm not sure we are really, for the rest of the season - things are so tight down there a run of 4 games, say half won half drawn, and you've pulled a long way away. That said, we are in a relegation battle right now, no mistake. And the team/management need to pull their finger out and sort it out - there's been a lot of brown stuff thrown at Hughes, metaphorically, by me amongst others, but there are players out there that got us to the Europa final FFS.

I disagree - from our end the middle is looking further and further away.

It now takes two wins in consecutive matches just to get into the top ten - and that assumes no one else accrues any points. I think we need to at least demonsrate that we can beat West Ham (to achieve our third league win all season) before we talk of two wins in a row or two wins two draws in four.

IMO, we also desperately need to beat someone higher up in the league than us - otherwise 2 wins in a row or 2 wins 2 draws in four looks even less likely

(especially since we're running out of winnable away games).

[BalDrick]

'we also desperately need to beat someone higher up in the league than us'

Points are points, whoever they're off. But points off another relegation struggler seem doubly nice - one of the reasons we flirted with relegation under Coleman was we always lost/gave points away to shite teams. 0-0 at home to Derby anyone?

[ImperialWhite]

'we also desperately need to beat someone higher up in the league than us'

Points are points, whoever they're off. But points off another relegation struggler seem doubly nice - one of the reasons we flirted with relegation under Coleman was we always lost/gave points away to shite teams. 0-0 at home to Derby anyone?

Points are points, but if they're only off fellow strugglers, than we're only due another 6 points from wins! (Wolves and West Ham at home).

Sunderland, Everton and Villa are decent teams, and Birmingham are tough to beat, but surely we surely we should have scraped a win from one of them?

It wasn't the performances in these games that worried me (although these were a concern) it was the fear that we're needing easier and easier games to get wins. If we can't beat these sorts of teams at home, what games are we going to? Man City was a shock, but in terms of points lost, no worries. But teams in the bottom ten, at home, should be 3pts.

[richie17]

This has got sleepy 0-0 written all over it I reckon.    As to the original question, West Ham need the points more but both teams are probably quite nervous.   Also we're at home so if there's pressure it's on us.

[Jimpav]

Our record against West Ham is shocking but we did take them to pieces last season - no reason why we can't do the same this year.

I think a score draw is the most likely - us coming from behind.

If we lose this then I sense that the doubters club will have a few more members.

COYW!

[jarv]

I am definitely worried about this one. Villa, Sunderland and Birmingham results were appalling. All rubbish teams on current form. (ok, Sunderland in top half but they are still rubbish)  Fulham under real pressure now because of the dropped points.
3 points is a must.

[BalDrick]

3 points may be a must but if you accept the reason for our crapness thus far is the lack of a striker and the effective lack of a defensive midfielder, we're not going to get new ones for Christmas, fresh out of the box to score/defend against WHU - we'll have to wait until the New Year.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

If we cannot beat West Ham AT HOME then I cannot see us staying in the league regardless of how many transfers we get in.

West Ham have been insanely inept this season. They have a terrible defence, one good player in midfield in Scott Parker (they have had to play Jonathan Spector there, JONATHAN SPECTOR for f**** sake) and maybe one or two decent strikers up front (Piquionne and Obinna). To top is all off they have Avram Grant managing them and are owned by two of the most hilarious owners this side of Italy.

If we do not beat them Hughes should not be fired, he should resign, out of embarrassment. And I am being serious.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

3 points may be a must but if you accept the reason for our crapness thus far is the lack of a striker and the effective lack of a defensive midfielder, we're not going to get new ones for Christmas, fresh out of the box to score/defend against WHU - we'll have to wait until the New Year.

See, I get the striker but we have a perfectly good defensive midfielder in Etuhu (I know you dont think so, but you are wrong  :hook:) it is Hughes tactics that have made him into a rubbish player. He is good at tackling and sitting in front of the defence, not lung busting dribbles from central midfield. If he had been asked to sit and just give the ball to Murphy we would have been much better this season, unfortunately Hughes has had other ideas.

[TonyGilroy]

As the home team we need the win most. An away draw will seem OK to them.

Having said that it's the January strengthening that will define our season. I genuinely think that this squad, without additions, will see us relegated.

[BalDrick]

'unfortunately Hughes has had other ideas'...

...which he's unlikely to be looking to change now.

I'm not sure if the problem is the lack/ineptitude of personnel or the system they're being asked to play - in truth it's a bit of both plus some other factors - but whichever it is, things ain't going to change until we get new bodies in who can play the system. Or the manager adopts a different system. Or the manager leaves, though top of that can of worms is who to replace him with, and how much time will he have before the window opens.

[Burt]

We have an appalling record against WHU but history counts for nothing against teams that are on a par with you.

I would like to see us coming out hungry, all guns blazing.

I fear we will get a turgid first half and start waking up a bit in the second half... That's the way it has been all season.

[ImperialWhite]

Fulham at home, last 6 agg: 6(Fulham)-8(away side) =        1 - 1.3 (mean)
West Ham away, last 6 agg: 9 (homeside)-4(West Ham) =   1.5 - 0.7 (mean)

Put that up there, not really sure how to interpret it. That both teams aren't all that? Our record suggests that we should score one, but West Ham's record says we should score 1.5. So let's chalk that up as between 1 and 2 goals for us. Our record says that we should concede 1.3, but their away record says they'll only score 0.7. So let's chalk that up as 1 goal for West Ham.

Fulham (1-1.5)  West Ham (0.7-1.3)

Fulham have scored in 5/6, but have score twice only 1/6.
West Ham have scored in 3/6 games.

So...if West Ham don't score we're probably fine. We usually score at least one goal. However, if they do score (and it's about 50:50) than we're probably in trouble, because we don't score twice very often (only twice all season, in fact).

*pop* (sound of brain exploding).

[Jimpav]

Fulham at home, last 6 agg: 6(Fulham)-8(away side) =        1 - 1.3 (mean)
West Ham away, last 6 agg: 9 (homeside)-4(West Ham) =   1.5 - 0.7 (mean)

Put that up there, not really sure how to interpret it. That both teams aren't all that? Our record suggests that we should score one, but West Ham's record says we should score 1.5. So let's chalk that up as between 1 and 2 goals for us. Our record says that we should concede 1.3, but their away record says they'll only score 0.7. So let's chalk that up as 1 goal for West Ham.

Fulham (1-1.5)  West Ham (0.7-1.3)

Fulham have scored in 5/6, but have score twice only 1/6.
West Ham have scored in 3/6 games.

So...if West Ham don't score we're probably fine. We usually score at least one goal. However, if they do score (and it's about 50:50) than we're probably in trouble, because we don't score twice very often (only twice all season, in fact).

*pop* (sound of brain exploding).

Is this the science behind a draw IW?!

[MJG]

'we are in a relegation fight for the rest of the season'

I'm not sure we are really, for the rest of the season -

I base this on the fact that even if we average points for the rest of the season like a 10th place side we will still only end up about 42-44 pts and that would mean a 15/16 type finsh at the end of the season. So we will be flirting with the releagtion zone even if we do win 4 on the trot. If win 4 on the spin we would no doubt lose 2 on the spin and etc etc. its going to be tough...I might be seen as all doom and gloom but its just the way on average we and other teams play over the season.