Fulham have kept

[WindyCity]

I for one have never really warmed up to Leno.  I know a lot of forum members like him and think he is very good.  I don't.  Bang average in my view, and that's being very generous.  Over the past 2-3 seasons I think I've given him my motm vote maybe only two or three times.  I will always give credit when due, but it just doesn't happen that much for Leno.  Keepers are part of the team (of course) and can have big impact on results.  I just don't think he's keeping his end up.  I place the Bournemouth loss squarely on him.  How he doesn't close off the short side properly and allow that goal was very poor.  Gave momentum to home side and we saw the end result.  He's not the worst keeper in the league, merely serviceable, adequate, will occasionally make some nice saves and keep the team in the game, but for me the main reason this thread is being considered and why clean sheets have been so hard to come by.

[Chi_FFC]

There is another thread on this page about clean sheets (lack thereof).

Rather than looking at defensive setups, coach game plans, lack of goal scoring et al, one might want to take a look at the keeper.

If the players in front of Leno aren't doing their job properly then he will concede goals. even the best keepers concede if their defence and midfield aren't stopping the shots etc.

Of course all of the relevant stats show that the defense in front of our GK has gotten better every season we've been in the PL while unfortunately Bernd has gotten progressively worse. If Bernd had been just a roughly average PL level shot stopper last season we'd have almost certainly comfortably finished at least a couple spots higher in the table. And while it's a little too early in the current season to draw any conclusions about whether there's been any improvement from Leno, the early returns are not terribly promising.

And if we'd have scored more goals we would have finished higher. If we'd have been able to defend a lead more often we would have finished higher. To single out Leno for us not being higher up the table and in Europe is a bit harsh.

Tbf this is a thread about keeping clean sheets so it makes sense that my post was focused on the defense and if you look at all the relevant stats it's obvious that goalkeeping was the weak leak in our defense last season.

We allowed 54 goals (T11th in the PL) with a xGA of 47.2 (5th in PL) and a PSxG (post shot expected goals) of 48.9 (7th in PL). And for those who don't like advanced stats we allowed 159 shots on target (9th in the PL). However, our PSxG-GA (post shot expected goals minus goals allowed...the advanced goalkeeping shot stopping statistic) was -3.1 (17th of 20 in the PL).

[Chi_FFC]

I for one have never really warmed up to Leno.

1) We know and 2) that's not something I'd be bragging about if I were you. He was PHENOMENAL in 22-23, one of the two best keepers in the Premier League (and really should have been our POTS...or at the very least co-POTS), and you were still bizzarely critical of him at that time.

[Twig]

I used to rate Leno as a very decent keeper but I think his standards have slipped over the past couple of seasons and I would hope the club might start looking at upgrades next summer.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Yes I also believe we should be looking for a better all round quality first team keeper now.

[cookieg]

There is another thread on this page about clean sheets (lack thereof).

Rather than looking at defensive setups, coach game plans, lack of goal scoring et al, one might want to take a look at the keeper.

If the players in front of Leno aren't doing their job properly then he will concede goals. even the best keepers concede if their defence and midfield aren't stopping the shots etc.

Of course all of the relevant stats show that the defense in front of our GK has gotten better every season we've been in the PL while unfortunately Bernd has gotten progressively worse. If Bernd had been just a roughly average PL level shot stopper last season we'd have almost certainly comfortably finished at least a couple spots higher in the table. And while it's a little too early in the current season to draw any conclusions about whether there's been any improvement from Leno, the early returns are not terribly promising.

And if we'd have scored more goals we would have finished higher. If we'd have been able to defend a lead more often we would have finished higher. To single out Leno for us not being higher up the table and in Europe is a bit harsh.

Tbf this is a thread about keeping clean sheets so it makes sense that my post was focused on the defense and if you look at all the relevant stats it's obvious that goalkeeping was the weak leak in our defense last season.

We allowed 54 goals (T11th in the PL) with a xGA of 47.2 (5th in PL) and a PSxG (post shot expected goals) of 48.9 (7th in PL). And for those who don't like advanced stats we allowed 159 shots on target (9th in the PL). However, our PSxG-GA (post shot expected goals minus goals allowed...the advanced goalkeeping shot stopping statistic) was -3.1 (17th of 20 in the PL).

You can use as many stats as you like to support your arguement but if the other 10 players aren't doing what they can to stop the shots coming in then to single out Leno is harsh but if that floats your boat good luck to you.

Take the goal the other night, Cairney hadn't let their player shoot Leno doesn't  get beaten. How about putting a stat out that shows the goals scored from missed tackles, fannying around at the back or missed placed passes then use that to see how many goals are purely down to Leno.

[Chi_FFC]

You can use as many stats as you like to support your arguement but if the other 10 players aren't doing what they can to stop the shots coming in then to single out Leno is harsh but if that floats your boat good luck to you.

Mate, that's exactly what a number of the stats I've cited to tell us, that is how good of a job the 10 players in front of the GK are doing in preventing opponent chances. And those stats show that last season in the aggregate those 10 players did a really good job. Again, our xGA of 47.2 was 5th in the PL, better than Chelsea, Man City, Bournemouth, Forest etc..yet we allowed more goals than all of them (and more). Why is that? Well again, the stats show it was primarily down to our goalkeeping (17th of 20 in the PL in the advanced shot stopping statistic). There's just no getting around it, when you're talking about our defense last season Bernd Leno was the weakest link.

A lot has changed since the 22-23 season when our defense in front of the GK was a leaky sieve and Bernd was saving their bacon (and one of the two best keepers in the league).

[Chi_FFC]

You can use as many stats as you like to support your arguement but if the other 10 players aren't doing what they can to stop the shots coming in then to single out Leno is harsh but if that floats your boat good luck to you.

Mate, that's exactly what a number of the stats I've cited to tell us, that is how good of a job the 10 players in front of the GK are doing in preventing opponent chances. And those stats show that last season in the aggregate those 10 players did a really good job. Again, our xGA of 47.2 was 5th in the PL, better than Chelsea, Man City, Bournemouth, Forest etc..yet we allowed more goals than all of them (and more). Why is that? Well again, the stats show it was primarily down to our goalkeeping (17th of 20 in the PL in the advanced shot stopping statistic). There's just no getting around it, when you're talking about our defense last season Bernd Leno was the weakest link.

A lot has changed since the 22-23 season when our defense in front of the GK was a leaky sieve and Bernd was saving their bacon (and one of the two best keepers in the league).
https://x.com/CottageTactico/status/1976342478438748227

[hopper]

Interesting to see the stats on Leno and it confirms some of the fears. Wonder how many times in the past few seasons opposition fans will have come away saying how well he did.

Unless he improves, then his position would rightfully be under threat a bit.

[WindyCity]

I for one have never really warmed up to Leno.

1) We know and 2) that's not something I'd be bragging about if I were you. He was PHENOMENAL in 22-23, one of the two best keepers in the Premier League (and really should have been our POTS...or at the very least co-POTS), and you were still bizzarely critical of him at that time.

Who's bragging?  Not sure where that comes from.  I'm just sharing my opinion/viewpoint, I assume that's what this forum is all about, discussing and sharing.  No need to get your panties all twisted up in a bunch.  We all have our own opinions, and you are certainly entitled to yours.  In my view, I would never characterize any season Leno has had with FFC as 'phenomenal'.  Again, just my opinion.....

[Chi_FFC]

In my view, I would never characterize any season Leno has had with FFC as 'phenomenal'.  Again, just my opinion.....

I suppose everyone is entitled to an opinion, even when, to be blunt, it's ridiculous (and I'm being kind here).

22-23 Premier League Goals Prevented
1) Bernd Leno 9.5 (highest in the PL since this stat has been calculated)
2) Alisson 8.5
3) Pickford 4.0

22-23 PL Post Shot Expected Goals minus Goals Allowed
1) Alisson 10.1
2) Leno 9 (5th best in the PL since this stat has been calculated)
3) Raya 5.1

22-23 PL Save Percentage (for those who don't like the fancy advanced stats)
1) Raya 77.7
2) Leno 77.1

22-23 Fulham xGA of 63.6 (16th of 20 in the PL), 196 Shots on target allowed (18th of 20 in the PL)...actual goals allowed 53 (10th in the PL). Our defense in front of Leno was a sieve that season and he was most definitely phenomenal.

[WindyCity]

Statistics are like bikinis.  They show a lot, but not everything........

[bahay18]

Seems to me that teams don't have to work hard enough to score multiple goals . Take the last 2 games.  Neither Villa or Bournemouth did enough for me to score 3 goals. We tend to have to batter teams to do that . In both games we were in control of the game , probably playing better .

In terms of the goal scoring we often get in a good situation and then fail to have a shot . We were in similar counterattack positions to Bournemoutha third goal on numerous occasions occasions but never looked like scoring from them . Bournemouth stretched us once and scored .