Larsson vs Berge

[fancyfeet4]

Larsson is 22 so this isnt a rush to judgement on his long term prospects, but I just dont see it with him right now and Charles and Berge have to be the preferred choice.

I know this MB seems to dislike Berge, but I am a fan and would prefer his side to side game + size paired with Charles vs Larsson. I dont think Larsson is up for it yet and hope its Berge and Charles this weekend.

[hongkongfulham]

Berge is s great mystery to me. Composed style, silky toches, frame of a viking and a complete reluctance to play positively as a first port of call. Larsson needs time as you say but for a team that apparently needs 5 guilt edge chances for every 1 goal I guess we need every forward thinking player we can get!

Seriously though Berge last season was my pet peeve but he looks improved this year, happy for either to play based on form

[the nutflush]

Berge looked like he was strolling around in his dressing gown and slippers looking for his newspaper last season.  There has been some improvement but I still dont see him as a massive influence on games.  Doesn't shoot so wont score for us.  Larsson looks more attack minded and will need time to settle.  But I think there is a good midfielder in him.

[Snibbo]

Tony Gale I think (correct me if I'm wrong) was co-commentator on the stream I was watching. He said Berge is perhaps the most underrated player in the Premier League.

Also said we should have been 3-0 up after about 20 mins.

[bencher]

Berge was just far too conservative on the ball last night. No conviction in his passes (all a bit too slow to allow the receiver to gain some momentum), mostly sideways or back. As a team we have to deliver the ball into the box far more quickly. We get into positions and recycle again as a default.

In a game in which we are not dominating the ball or it is more even, Berge can be a very effective player, but in a game like last night he just doesn't offer very much.

[Grassy Noel]

Larsson is 22 so this isnt a rush to judgement on his long term prospects, but I just dont see it with him right now and Charles and Berge have to be the preferred choice.

I know this MB seems to dislike Berge, but I am a fan and would prefer his side to side game + size paired with Charles vs Larsson. I dont think Larsson is up for it yet and hope its Berge and Charles this weekend.

Berge passes sideways but Larsson passes backwards. I prefer Berge's creativity.

[bahay18]

They look very similar and on that showing cant play together .

[ffcthereligion]

Both look like your normal premier league retain possession do nothing with it shite to me.

If only we had a 25 year old tom cairney tom cairney to sit alongside charles and control every game from midfield 

[Bassey the warrior]

Larsson more like Lukic, hopefully will prove a bit more adept in attack. Currently a back up to Charles.

[@jolslover]

Larsson reminds me a lot of Lukic so far and I don't really mean that in a complimentary way, a solid enough player, who has lots of energy, works hard and runs around but in terms of contribution on the ball I am not seeing much. Seems to play the safe pass a lot but I've not really seen him offer much attacking contribution or really get on the ball and dictate play.

Still early days and settling into a new league so wish him luck

[WokingFFC]

Larsson, to me, lacks awareness.

Many times last evening he had space and time to turn and progress himself or the ball forwards, instead, he made a quick backwards pass to stall any forward impetus.

I hope he improves once he has established himself

[bobbo]

Tony Gale I think (correct me if I'm wrong) was co-commentator on the stream I was watching. He said Berge is perhaps the most underrated player in the Premier League.

Also said we should have been 3-0 up after about 20 mins.

he ( Tony gale ) is not wrong for me .

[hopper]

Tony Gale I think (correct me if I'm wrong) was co-commentator on the stream I was watching. He said Berge is perhaps the most underrated player in the Premier League.

Also said we should have been 3-0 up after about 20 mins.

he ( Tony gale ) is not wrong for me .

I think Berge is one of the most under appreciated players of recent years. He does so much well that goes under the radar. @Matt10 has had a few posts which explain how good he is off the ball with positioning and intelligence.

He's very press resistant and incredibly secure with his distribution. The weight of pass is always so good.

I understand the frustrations he doesn't offer any goal threat given his height and we know he can shoot from range.

[Bronaldinho]

Someone mentioned it earlier, which is his similarities to Lukic. He can do a variety of roles, but a master of none - which makes him not stand out.

Plus we're spoiled with the quality Berge and Shea have and how they control the game. I think Larsson will adapt and get better, he had a poor spell in Frankfurt towards the end of his time there but on his day he can be quite impactful, but it's a development process.

Part of me believes the club got him in, because he'll replace Berge if another big bid comes in. He'd need to improve a fair bit to replace those shoes.

[alfie]

Tony Gale I think (correct me if I'm wrong) was co-commentator on the stream I was watching. He said Berge is perhaps the most underrated player in the Premier League.

Also said we should have been 3-0 up after about 20 mins.

I thought it was Glen Hoddle, although I could wrong.

[Fulham 1879]

Cairney showed Berge how to pass when he came on and played like a quarterback. Too many people think they're being sophisticated when they coo over the Wilkins, Parker, Berges of this world passing it sideways and backwards all day long. The lack of tempo is almost all down to Berge. You can't drive a car at pace with a 500cc engine at its heart. I'm said it before: Berge has almost zero chance creation, pressing, finishing, work rate, energy, crossing, urgency, running off the ball, runs in behind, aerial duels, risk-taking, tactical flexibility, intensity, shooting and tackling. Football is about players who impact a game and he has little impact. He also doesn't even shield the centre backs very effectively. I would love to play Cairney and Charles every game, but Cairney is probably now a cameo player. I just hope Larssen is good enough to take Berge's place but he's shown little to date.

[Bill2]

Berge is s great mystery to me. Composed style, silky toches, frame of a viking and a complete reluctance to play positively as a first port of call. Larsson needs time as you say but for a team that apparently needs 5 guilt edge chances for every 1 goal I guess we need every forward thinking player we can get!

Seriously though Berge last season was my pet peeve but he looks improved this year, happy for either to play based on form

When Berge scores a goal then I will say he is the man. Blew a great chance yesterday. As I have said here numerous times a good player but zero goals. There is not a team in the entire football league who has a player in his position with a zero goal tally.

[Colton F.C.]

Tony Gale I think (correct me if I'm wrong) was co-commentator on the stream I was watching. He said Berge is perhaps the most underrated player in the Premier League.

Also said we should have been 3-0 up after about 20 mins.

I thought it was Glen Hoddle, although I could wrong.

Sky says it was Tony Gale.  His summaries were unbiased, in a Neville kind of way but far less miserable (despite the awfulness of the Fulham performance).

[Matt10]

Cairney showed Berge how to pass when he came on and played like a quarterback. Too many people think they're being sophisticated when they coo over the Wilkins, Parker, Berges of this world passing it sideways and backwards all day long. The lack of tempo is almost all down to Berge. You can't drive a car at pace with a 500cc engine at its heart. I'm said it before: Berge has almost zero chance creation, pressing, finishing, work rate, energy, crossing, urgency, running off the ball, runs in behind, aerial duels, risk-taking, tactical flexibility, intensity, shooting and tackling. Football is about player who impact a game and he had little impact. He also doesn't even shield the centre backs very effectively. I would love to play Cairney and Charles every game, but Cairney is probably now a cameo player. I just hope Larssen is good enough to take Berge's place but he's shown little to date.

It's a shame that a player like Cairney can't be complimented without slating another player. What if they simply both played well in their role?

It's not about sophistication, it's about the chain reaction of what Berge provides that allows Cairney to have such freedom. Your comment is exactly why Tony Gale has to say how underappreciated Berge is.

Berge's role is in the double pivot as a 6 and Cairney was an 8. Cairney has the freedom in his movement and passing because of Berge. Berge's sideways passing that you hate is why other players, including Cairney, can occupy themselves into those half-spaces that create penetration.

The methodical circulation that looks like lack of urgency to you is necessary to move the opponent horizontally. The side-to-side passing stretches the defensive shape, eventually opening vertical passing lanes. Berge does that heavy lifting of shifting the block so Cairney/Charles/Larsson can receive the ball in dangerous areas facing forward.

I understand the criticism that Berge doesn't shield the defense, but that simply ignores how rest defense actually operates in a high-possession system. His raw tackle volume is low, but when he's forced to engage, he's winning over half of his duels. He's not there to lunge into highlight-reel tackles, he is there to control space and cut off central passing lanes while delaying in 1v1 situations.

Berge takes on the structural, less glamorous work to manipulate the opposition so the 8 can be the primary playmaker in the final third. He did it for Norway in the World Cup as well, he did it for Marco and now he's doing it for Arbeloa.

[fancyfeet4]

It's funny how one argument evolves into something else. Most of the comments arent about Berge vs Larsson and our best chance of winning and about Berge himself.

The argument is that Berge brings more to the team than Larsson - right now. I have not been overly impressed by Larsson in the last 2 games and prefer Berge in the immediate future. Larsson got a start over him vs Coventry and I didnt see a lot.

Players take time to adapt but even as flawed as Berge may be (I personally rate him while others dont), I want him started next to Charles vs Villa and in the foreseeable future.

Larsson will improve and adapt, but feels like a sub for now and I would not start him.