Leno's decline

[Neutral Zone Ultra]

Is Malcom Webster available? He is the only goalkeeper I remember to get more stick than Leno.

Clearly you don't remember Gabor Kiraly, David Button or even Marcus Bettinelli at points. Leno has been a good goalkeeper for us but he's getting worse and we need to upgrade.

They were dire. But they still didn't get the stick Webster used to get.

I'm sure he did but my point is I think Leno has had his fair share of both praise and criticism since being at the club, I don't think he's been scapegoated particularly.

I actually agree. The Webster comment was an attempt at a light-hearted reminder of a goalkeeper who got a lot of stick from the terraces. Sometimes justifiably. Leno has had very little.

Fair dos, guess it's the life of a goalkeeper - when they make mistakes they're hard to miss, which means they're easily singled out.

[alfie]

If the keeper fails, doesn't that mean the players in front of him have failed ?

[Chi_FFC]

If the keeper fails, doesn't that mean the players in front of him have failed ?

Not necessarily. The stats above actually control for the quality of chances faced by a GK, so a GK could theoretically be playing with a dreadful team in front of him and still rank favorably. One example of this is Burnley in 23-24. Finished 19th and allowed the 3rd most goals in the league but their GK ranked 9th. And as it pertains to Fulham, all the relevant stats show our defense in front of the GK has improved considerably since our 1st season back in the PL but unfortunately Leno has declined.

[perry geyton]

He's been a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points

No idea where this hate is coming from

A true professional

[WindyCity]

He's a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points
No idea where this hate is coming from
Shocking post

Nope, disagree.  There's no 'hate' here, just fair commentary based on observed (lack of) performance.  Simples.

[Mickeyboro]

With one of the other keepers mentioned we would likely have been in danger of going down.

I was delighted we signed Bernd and if this is his to be his last season with us I hope it is a good 'un.

[Twig]

He's been a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points

No idea where this hate is coming from

A true professional

Sorry, what hate?

[sunburywhite]

I think there is a realtive of his on this board so apologies but Ken Hewkins was not a great keeper

[Jules]

I agree his form has dropped off and he doesn't command his area well enough. He has credit for his ever present attendance record though going back a very long time. The bigger concern for me right now is that this record can't go on for much longer. I think his drop in form isnt helped by having no challenge on his position. He will inevitably get injured or have a flu or something. Putting Lecompte in goal for a PL game scares the hell out of me. That's why we desperately need to upgrade a new back up keeper who can compete.

We don't want a back up keeper in my opinion we need a replacement.

There is talk Arbeloa wants a new GK and we would target a young, top prospect who is good with his feet, but we would bed him in for a year before making him the starter next year.

This is exactly what I had in mind with my earlier comments.

[AshfordFFC]

Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of statistics to bolster weak arguments ......... attributed to Mark Twain.    Firstly I am not accusing any one of having weak arguments or lying...... and if you love your stats then you crack on if it makes you happy because that is what life is about     Everything that has been posted previously has valid points however it is the statistics angle that I do not agree with.

As an ex keeper (FA Trained for the Army back in the day) I can say that Leno has been great for us and yes, may have had an error or two ....... but what keeper doesn't?   do Donnarumma, Raya, Becker et al all not mistakes? Maybe not to the volume that Leno may or may not has conceded however equally before it gets to Leno do not forget that the ball has to bypass 10 other player's so are they not equally culpable?

I watched every game last season and can honestly say that Bernd kept us in quite a few with some of his saves, and I do not recall who we were playing (we must have been down to 10 men at the time), however we were under the cosh for the last 10 - 15 minutes and he was constantly off his line, catching / punching the ball away.... which is his job.

Has anyone done stats on the most long range goals scored v any team?  I allude to the fact as previously mentioned about getting through the rest of the team to get into position to take that shot.  Add in the fact that in these days, the ball is of a different construction, turns and flows away from a hand, can be deflected, have a bobble etc!  In pre season against Malaga he made a few saves however (watch the game if not done so) the one that stood out was the header from Malaga and then deflected off another player and Leno saved it....... that showed to me that he still has his reflexes at least and can still cut it.

Physically I am not at every game, and even then it may not be  possible to hear, however who is to say the defender states that it his ball and then messes up and misses a clearance and Leno get's blamed?

Yes, I concede that he is not as great as when he first joined ...... equally he is still decent enough for us for a year or two IMHO.

COYW   




 

[perry geyton]

He's been a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points

No idea where this hate is coming from

A true professional

Sorry, what hate?

ep, he's quite literally costing us goals, points and £130k a week been saying it for 2 years now.

Saying that he has performed well in friendlies in the main, but I do wish we'd prioritised a new keeper- they win you points single-handedly.


Looks relatively hateful to me to a man given everything IMO, classless

I have a lot of respect for Leno

[Chi_FFC]

He's been a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points

No idea where this hate is coming from

A true professional

Sorry, what hate?

ep, he's quite literally costing us goals, points and £130k a week been saying it for 2 years now.

Saying that he has performed well in friendlies in the main, but I do wish we'd prioritised a new keeper- they win you points single-handedly.


Looks relatively hateful to me to a man given everything IMO, classless

I have a lot of respect for Leno

I'm generally not a fan of bringing up a player's salary when criticizing them, but it's indisputable that over the past couple seasons Leno has cost us goals and points. That's not hate, just the truth.

[Whitestone]

He's been a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points

No idea where this hate is coming from

A true professional

Obviously it's not hate. I've only seen constructive criticism.

[Jim©]

Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of statistics to bolster weak arguments ......... attributed to Mark Twain.    Firstly I am not accusing any one of having weak arguments or lying...... and if you love your stats then you crack on if it makes you happy because that is what life is about     Everything that has been posted previously has valid points however it is the statistics angle that I do not agree with.

As an ex keeper (FA Trained for the Army back in the day) I can say that Leno has been great for us and yes, may have had an error or two ....... but what keeper doesn't?   do Donnarumma, Raya, Becker et al all not mistakes? Maybe not to the volume that Leno may or may not has conceded however equally before it gets to Leno do not forget that the ball has to bypass 10 other player's so are they not equally culpable?

I watched every game last season and can honestly say that Bernd kept us in quite a few with some of his saves, and I do not recall who we were playing (we must have been down to 10 men at the time), however we were under the cosh for the last 10 - 15 minutes and he was constantly off his line, catching / punching the ball away.... which is his job.

Has anyone done stats on the most long range goals scored v any team?  I allude to the fact as previously mentioned about getting through the rest of the team to get into position to take that shot.  Add in the fact that in these days, the ball is of a different construction, turns and flows away from a hand, can be deflected, have a bobble etc!  In pre season against Malaga he made a few saves however (watch the game if not done so) the one that stood out was the header from Malaga and then deflected off another player and Leno saved it....... that showed to me that he still has his reflexes at least and can still cut it.

Physically I am not at every game, and even then it may not be  possible to hear, however who is to say the defender states that it his ball and then messes up and misses a clearance and Leno get's blamed?

Yes, I concede that he is not as great as when he first joined ...... equally he is still decent enough for us for a year or two IMHO.

COYW   




 

Sorry but 2 seasons back we conceded a third of all the goals from outside the area, that's not bad luck that's poor shot stopping unless they were all top corner which they weren't. His save percentages, are too low. They're beneath where the rest of the team is performing.
Last season there was a save at Brentford away where he genuinely shouldn't have saved it but did, fair play we won a point. But the fact I can point to one situation says it all...

[cwindsor]

I have little to no time for all the carping about Leno.
There are many other problems that need to be corrected before goalkeeping.
Those problems have led directly to the criticism of Leno.
Has he bollocked things up occasionally? Who hasn't?
Just as a recent reminder - we wouldn't have won the match against Stuttgart without some very top-drawer saves on his part.

[Chi_FFC]

There are many other problems that need to be corrected before goalkeeping.
Those problems have led directly to the criticism of Leno.

Nonsense. All the relevant stats (like those in the tweet that started this thread) show that he's been the weak link in Fulham's defense the past two seasons. He's the one who has let down those playing in front of him.

[cwindsor]

There are many other problems that need to be corrected before goalkeeping.
Those problems have led directly to the criticism of Leno.

Nonsense. All the relevant stats (like those in the tweet that started this thread) show that he's been the weak link in Fulham's defence the past two seasons. He's the one who has let down those playing in front of him.

Nonsense, to use your word.
The stats that started this thread show where he ranks amongst other Premier League goalkeepers. Nothing more.
To actually show that he's been the weak link in Fulham's defence the past two seasons, would require an entirely different analysis, which would include Fulham's total defensive performance vis-a-vis the other teams in the Premier League.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

[Woolly Mammoth]

I have noticed that he gets very nervous with the ball at his feet.
Never seems to look comfortable.
To be fair he makes up with that with other strengths with his shot stopping.
Let's see how he gets on this season, but I do understand the cause for concern.
It can also be said a goalkeeper is only as good as his defence, and vice versa.
Goalkeeping is a specialist position and it is important that the club gets that right.

[FPT]

I still think there's plenty left in Bernd Leno. He's still a very good shot-stopper and has shown it in pre-season as well as times last year (Brentford away).

Low xG efforts finding their way in doesn't help this data, he's not the biggest keeper so always feels a bit susceptible to digs from distance. The volume of saves made and save % has gone down, like the graph suggests, year of year.

I don't quite feel like he's a liability, he's still capable of being a point winning keeper but he's certainly past his best. Leno is another where Fulham are pretty tied to the contract (expires next year with a club option). Depending on the make up of that option (is it games played tied etc), but ideally we go our separate ways next summer and continue to move forward with a younger, Arbeloa suited goalkeeper.

Bernd has been a great servant though, not sure he's quite Schwarzer or van der Sar but he's up there and those are some big shoes (gloves?) to fill.

[alfie]

He's been a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points

No idea where this hate is coming from

A true professional

Sorry, what hate?

ep, he's quite literally costing us goals, points and £130k a week been saying it for 2 years now.

Saying that he has performed well in friendlies in the main, but I do wish we'd prioritised a new keeper- they win you points single-handedly.


Looks relatively hateful to me to a man given everything IMO, classless

I have a lot of respect for Leno

I'm generally not a fan of bringing up a player's salary when criticizing them, but it's indisputable that over the past couple seasons Leno has cost us goals and points. That's not hate, just the truth.

Do people consider when strikers or indeed any player has a shot and misses could be costing us points, or is it solely the keeper, how about when a penalty is missed, costing us points ?.