The Old Firm

[Scrumpy]

Jesus, I do not pretend to understand all this Catholic/Proddy crap, but can Neil Lennon and Walter Smith please grow up and begin behaving like adults?

If ever there was a time to show some respect towards each other, this was it. To maybe discourage nutters from sending letter bombs to each other in the post, then this was it. To restore a little faith in a damaged league, then this was it.

Instead, I have Sky Sports News interviews of Walter Smith making snide comments about Celtic penalty claims and Neil Lennon looking like a rude, ignorant twit as he makes gestures to the Rangers crowd. Childish, petty, prats, the both of 'em.

[finnster01]

Agree with you Mr Scrumpy.

However having lived 4 years in Glasgow and watched 8 old firms in my life, I just don't see it ever change.

Sad, but true.

[Scrumpy]

I guess, if I'm honest, I can understand it to an extent. I do have a hatred of Chelsea, QPR, Brentford and Gillingham which is formed by the memoirs of old Uncles etc, history, personal events from my past, and heresay from other Fulham fans. It is difficult to swim against the tide when all your peers are pushing you in the same direction.

However, the Managers of Fulham and Chelsea have always played down an hatred between the Clubs. They have always both condemned any violence between fans. Likewise, Brentford's management team last year tried to pour water on any flames before the friendly with them. They have always 'risen above' the silly fan hatred. You expect the Managers to be the voice of reason, despite us moron fans.

Not sure this is the case in Scotland?!

[NogoodBoyo]

It must have something to do with teh deep-fried Mars bars.
Nogood "salt and batterie" Boyo

[jarv]

I spent my young years in Glasgow. Luckily, my parents took me away from all that religious nonsense. It is not just football, this religious difference exists elsewhere, back then when I was a child, almost everywhere. (We moved to Southfields) :clap_hands:

Over the years, many people aske me....rangers or celtic?? Answer: Neither. ... FULHAM.  Don't get me wrong, Scotland is a great place and I love going back but the religious thing is just one of it's warts, along with the weather :tom:

[timmyg]

Well when you dominate a footballing vacuum like Scotland, it's really no surprise that both sides act like such children/idiots.

Most overrated league, that.

[Gozorich]

I guess, if I'm honest, I can understand it to an extent. I do have a hatred of Chelsea, QPR, Brentford and Gillingham which is formed by the memoirs of old Uncles etc, history, personal events from my past, and heresay from other Fulham fans. It is difficult to swim against the tide when all your peers are pushing you in the same direction.

However, the Managers of Fulham and Chelsea have always played down an hatred between the Clubs. They have always both condemned any violence between fans. Likewise, Brentford's management team last year tried to pour water on any flames before the friendly with them. They have always 'risen above' the silly fan hatred. You expect the Managers to be the voice of reason, despite us moron fans.

Not sure this is the case in Scotland?!

If only it was that simple! The rivalry(hate) that you talk about amongst London clubs is based on locality. In Glasgow as in all of the West of Scotland it is based on religious hatred going back centuries.
Without in any way wishing to be patronising it is impossible to begin to understand the feelings unless you have been immersed in them from an early age. Like Jarv I was lucky to escape but I still have the scars.

It is also a bit harsh to ask someone to grow up after he has had bombs and bullets sent to his home, his family threatened and told he was going to be shot whilst playing in Belfast. Ask Chris Baird!

[Matt Inglis]

I've never understood violence in football. I mean, I hate clichés, but it is just a game at the end of the day. :handbags:
Some people are just pathetic and let football and the hatred that comes with it dominate their lives.

Then you get the religous side of things. Honestly I can't defend anything they do, but I also don't have any empathetic perspective, so it's hard to comment.

Sending bombs to people is not good, not good at all. No justification at all.

[Logicalman]

It is also a bit harsh to ask someone to grow up after he has had bombs and bullets sent to his home, his family threatened and told he was going to be shot whilst playing in Belfast. Ask Chris Baird!

I can understand where you're coming from on this, but Chris Baird is not in this discussion, and unless both the managers have suffered in the way you mention, then I fail to see the full relevance. (yep, I know that Lennon had the parcel bomb sent to him - but that was quite recently and this stupid spat between the managers goes back longer than that).

Basically, both Lennon and McCoist should have been thrown out of football after their bust up in March, but its obvious the SFA is as toothless as the PL and FA combined!! Perhaps Lennons lawyer, who claimed the SFA were "institutionally dysfunctional" was - in fact - talking about the Old Firm themselves.

All this from two teams that would struggle to make it in the Fizzy League down south!!

[Lighthouse]

We tend to forget that to a lesser extent, big clubs in England have had a religious rivalry. Man United were Catholic and City Protestant. Liverpool and Everton the same. Fulham and .......no ok I am pushing it a bit now. But the fact is religion has always been there or there abouts. Now if we can lose it one can only hope Scotland can. Doesn't help that Scotland only have two teams.

[finnster01]

We tend to forget that to a lesser extent, big clubs in England have had a religious rivalry. Man United were Catholic and City Protestant. Liverpool and Everton the same. Fulham and .......no ok I am pushing it a bit now. But the fact is religion has always been there or there abouts. Now if we can lose it one can only hope Scotland can. Doesn't help that Scotland only have two teams.

Agree Mr Beamer, but the problem is as old as Scotland and England. When you grow up in a society where you live in a City that is pretty much divided 50% catholic and 50% protestant, people live in predominately sectarian neighbourhoods, go to catholic or protestant schools, grow up having only catholic or protestant friends respectively, there will always be problems later in life.

The fact that religious wars are no longer an acceptable outlet, people turn to football and the old firm instead to vent. Although the clubs and the SFA denounce violence and sectarian violence, it is too ingrained in society (or at least still was last time I was in Glasgow). Until people gets a little more integrated on all levels in society, I don't ever see it changing. The handbags of the respective manger/assistant manager, is just a symptom of a much larger disease.

I agree with Mr Jarv who grew up in it. It is something I hope will change. It doesn't matter which side of the argument one is, football and religion (and politics) have nothing to do with each other, but in real life it still has and UEFA can run as many campaigns as they want, it will not go away until society change. Just like the "Respect" and "Racism Out of Football" campaigns will always fail because the general public has lost its ability to respect each other as human beings.

Rant over 

[Lighthouse]

Brilliantly put Mr Finn.

[Scrumpy]

Some very interesting comments and great to see that such an emotive subject can be discussed so reasonably. Interesting to hear from people who have 'lived through it'.

Were any London Clubs traditionally either Catholic or Prodestant? I'm not aware of any, but would be interested to hear if otherwise.