Safety or silverware?

[Rambling_Syd_Rumpo]

I refuse to accept that winning the FA Cup, League Cup, or Europa Cup MUST mean we'll be relegated.

We ARE going to be relegated at some point in the future. Wouldn't it be nice to win a cup or two while we're here?

Why are we defo going to be relegated sometime soon? thats ridiculous! Were an established premiership team, 3 top 12 finishes in the last 3 years and had we not gone all the way in Europe certainly would have been 3 top 10 finishes.
Fans at this club need to grow some ambition or else drop down a few divisions and go find a team that you can enjoy being miserable with!
THIS CLUBS FUTURE IS SUPER BRIGHT AND THE ONLY THING THATS GOING TO STOP IT IS FANS LACK OF AMBITION!

there is a lack of ambitiion and dealing with reality,ask Leeds fans-1 minute they are in a champions league semi final,next thing they know they are in league 2,over ambition is a bitch! :001: :dft008:

[HatterDon]

I refuse to accept that winning the FA Cup, League Cup, or Europa Cup MUST mean we'll be relegated.

We ARE going to be relegated at some point in the future. Wouldn't it be nice to win a cup or two while we're here?

Why are we defo going to be relegated sometime soon? thats ridiculous! Were an established premiership team, 3 top 12 finishes in the last 3 years and had we not gone all the way in Europe certainly would have been 3 top 10 finishes.
Fans at this club need to grow some ambition or else drop down a few divisions and go find a team that you can enjoy being miserable with!
THIS CLUBS FUTURE IS SUPER BRIGHT AND THE ONLY THING THATS GOING TO STOP IT IS FANS LACK OF AMBITION!

I didn't say soon. I said some time in the future. Face it. Every club now in the Prem will be relegated at some time in the future except for Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Spurs, and Everton. If the board had their poo together, Newcastle United would join that list. Nobody else has the depth to sustain their membership during a dark time -- and that includes Man City, who have already been down to the third tier in the Premiership Era.

[Jimbobob]

I refuse to accept that winning the FA Cup, League Cup, or Europa Cup MUST mean we'll be relegated.

We ARE going to be relegated at some point in the future. Wouldn't it be nice to win a cup or two while we're here?

Why? Why? Why?
Why are we GOING to be relagated? That crap attitude is what drives all this Europa nonsense.
Everyone wants a damn vacation in europe.
We should NEVER think it is our position in life to be relagated.
Too many damn old fans want the good old days of being a poo club in old third division!!!
Well hell with that attitude!!!!
Hell with that!!!
We are a top flight club in the best league in the world and all you fuckers think that is a bad thing!!!
love all of you that think that!!!!
God Fuckin Damn it!!!!

[Rambling_Syd_Rumpo]

I refuse to accept that winning the FA Cup, League Cup, or Europa Cup MUST mean we'll be relegated.

We ARE going to be relegated at some point in the future. Wouldn't it be nice to win a cup or two while we're here?

Why? Why? Why?
Why are we GOING to be relagated? That crap attitude is what drives all this Europa nonsense.
Everyone wants a damn vacation in europe.
We should NEVER think it is our position in life to be relagated.
Too many damn old fans want the good old days of being a sh1t club in old third division!!!
Well hell with that attitude!!!!
Hell with that!!!
We are a top flight club in the best league in the world and all you fuckers think that is a bad thing!!!
fcuk all of you that think that!!!!
God Fuckin Damn it!!!!

your kidding right?

[b+w geezer]

We should NEVER think it is our position in life to be relagated.

Each season it is the position of 15% of the clubs to be relegated. Back in the days when we were not in this division we played Spurs, Manchester City and many others in lower divisions. Even Manchester United.

Modern circumstances, arising from the Champions League money, make it even harder for clubs such as Manchester United ever to be relegated, meaning that instead of 3 out of 20 clubs being relegated each season, it is in practice more like 3 in 15. You can improve your chances by having more money to spend than most of the other 15 (but at present FFC can't do that and it's not to be predicted) or by being well run on and off the pitch. The latter is our main hope of being here another 10 years when most comparable clubs in terms of resources will have been down (and often up again) in the interim. None of that relates to supporters' preferences or nostalgias, just to how things are. Denial of circumstances -- whether carefully argued or shouted abusively --  is just that.

[VicHalomsLovechild]

 I think both are achievable. There are a lot of people working at the club besides players who experienced Europa. When you pool all that knowledge you have a blueprint for how we tackle both the League and Europa. How many clubs have that advantage? Don't Manure win things because nothing's new to them and the knowledge is there?  Use the fringe players and the youth to bring you through the early rounds.
When Zoltan and Bairdino first came to the club things didn't go their way Europa changed that. This will happen again with other fringe players. Along with the current squad, manager and setup doesn't being in Europa makes us a little bit more of an attractive oppotunity to transfer targets.                          
Watching Juve score after about 30 seconds was the worst moment of following Fulham bar none. Watching Dempsey score and then sitting in that Bowl in the woods at Hamburg was the best.
I'm with Fred, silverware and happy memories in our lifetime.   :yay:

[SG]

We should NEVER think it is our position in life to be relagated.

Each season it is the position of 15% of the clubs to be relegated. Back in the days when we were not in this division we played Spurs, Manchester City and many others in lower divisions. Even Manchester United.

Modern circumstances, arising from the Champions League money, make it even harder for clubs such as Manchester United ever to be relegated, meaning that instead of 3 out of 20 clubs being relegated each season, it is in practice more like 3 in 15. You can improve your chances by having more money to spend than most of the other 15 (but at present FFC can't do that and it's not to be predicted) or by being well run on and off the pitch. The latter is our main hope of being here another 10 years when most comparable clubs in terms of resources will have been down (and often up again) in the interim. None of that relates to supporters' preferences or nostalgias, just to how things are. Denial of circumstances -- whether carefully argued or shouted abusively --  is just that.

A spot on analysis bwg. Unfortunately FFC's income is probably at its maximum that could be attained -Sky money for 8th position (unlikely to finish much higher), most home attendances sold out, lucrative shirt sponsorship deal etc. So unless we sell players for a large profit eg Smalling our income is maximised. Thus we cannot expect any significant improvement in our current circumstances unless our benefactor pumps in more funds and rightly in my view that is not likely to be the case going forward. Lets enjoy it while we can.

[The Bronsons]

We should NEVER think it is our position in life to be relagated.

Each season it is the position of 15% of the clubs to be relegated. ... it is in practice more like 3 in 15. Denial of circumstances -- whether carefully argued or shouted abusively --  is just that.

A spot on analysis bwg. Lets enjoy it while we can.

+1,000,000

The only thing worth arguing is how long we can stay in this division. Does anyone seriously think we will be here continuously for 50 years, 100 years, 1,000? If we hang around long enough, doesn't matter how unlikely it is (and 3/15 isn't that unlikely), we're down.

In the last four seasons, we've been in serious trouble twice. 'Nuff said.

[FatFreddysCat]

I refuse to accept that winning the FA Cup, League Cup, or Europa Cup MUST mean we'll be relegated.

We ARE going to be relegated at some point in the future. Wouldn't it be nice to win a cup or two while we're here?

Why are we defo going to be relegated sometime soon? thats ridiculous! Were an established premiership team, 3 top 12 finishes in the last 3 years and had we not gone all the way in Europe certainly would have been 3 top 10 finishes.
Fans at this club need to grow some ambition or else drop down a few divisions and go find a team that you can enjoy being miserable with!
THIS CLUBS FUTURE IS SUPER BRIGHT AND THE ONLY THING THATS GOING TO STOP IT IS FANS LACK OF AMBITION!

What happens when chairman Mo passes to the great pyramid in the Sky? We could be right in the shite. We will definately get relegated at somepoint, just cant see it happening next season even if we make the final id still expect to be top ten.

[epsomraver]

Bloody hell , there are so many Poles on here no wonder I can't get a plumber :005: :005: :005:

[epsomraver]

I think both are achievable. There are a lot of people working at the club besides players who experienced Europa. When you pool all that knowledge you have a blueprint for how we tackle both the League and Europa. How many clubs have that advantage? Don't Manure win things because nothing's new to them and the knowledge is there?  Use the fringe players and the youth to bring you through the early rounds.
When Zoltan and Bairdino first came to the club things didn't go their way Europa changed that. This will happen again with other fringe players. Along with the current squad, manager and setup doesn't being in Europa makes us a little bit more of an attractive oppotunity to transfer targets.                          
Watching Juve score after about 30 seconds was the worst moment of following Fulham bar none. Watching Dempsey score and then sitting in that Bowl in the woods at Hamburg was the best.
I'm with Fred, silverware and happy memories in our lifetime.   :yay:

Best post of the lot  :Sparkyticus:

[Lighthouse]

No doubt about it. The majority of fans want to have the one night stand with the porn star over a long relationship with the wife. That I think has been proved beyond doubt. We will be relegated and all die one day, so let us snatch an honour or a moment of pleasure, while we can.

So spending all those years reaching this point and becoming established in the Prem is as far as we can go. We don't want to, but we would sacrifice it all for one, big honour.

This all started because I was accused for lacking ambition, wanting Prem success( finishing 6th) and even survival over an honour. To me the Premier League was the ambition. To try and improve in it and become the best we can. Over and obove the cups.

I now accept I am in a minority. I now realise that I have more ambition for Fulham than the majority. 'It will all end one day, so grab an honour while we can', isn't ambition. The fixtures are the excitement, not the cup draws. So while I have to accept that our fans may now want other things. Don't be shocked when the frustration of being accused 'lacking in ambition' is leveled at me by the same people who say ' It will all end one day, so grab an honour while we can, to hell with success in the long term'


Now I promise (hurrah) that I will no longer comment on this. We have all made our points and remain as alien to each other as we have ever done. I think we have proved a very interesting fact over the last few days. Some of us remain horrorfied by it. But facts are facts.

[os5889]

Would you rather be Fulham or the trophy winning Birmingham? Personally I'm all for taking a £90 million/year hit, non-renewal of season tickets, player firesales, financial insecurity due to MAF dying of a broken heart and plumeting down the divisions but having a trophy....

[finnster01]

The reality is however that since Fulham got promoted to the Prem, of the teams with 10+ seasons, only 8 teams (including Fulham) has not been relegated.

This means that the probability of a nasty surprise is getting higher, especially when the other 7 teams are Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa, Spurs and Everton. However, you can also make the other side of the argument and say that is a pretty accomplished company to be in and despite a couple of squeeky bum moments, Fulham has "arrived" as a proper Prem football club.

[epsomraver]

I still think we are punching above our weight , as said before there are bigger clubs with bigger history in the championship than us, our small capacity will always handicap us.

[ImperialWhite]

No doubt about it. The majority of fans want to have the one night stand with the porn star over a long relationship with the wife. That I think has been proved beyond doubt. We will be relegated and all die one day, so let us snatch an honour or a moment of pleasure, while we can.

So spending all those years reaching this point and becoming established in the Prem is as far as we can go. We don't want to, but we would sacrifice it all for one, big honour.

This all started because I was accused for lacking ambition, wanting Prem success( finishing 6th) and even survival over an honour. To me the Premier League was the ambition. To try and improve in it and become the best we can. Over and obove the cups.

I now accept I am in a minority. I now realise that I have more ambition for Fulham than the majority. 'It will all end one day, so grab an honour while we can', isn't ambition. The fixtures are the excitement, not the cup draws. So while I have to accept that our fans may now want other things. Don't be shocked when the frustration of being accused 'lacking in ambition' is leveled at me by the same people who say ' It will all end one day, so grab an honour while we can, to hell with success in the long term'


Now I promise (hurrah) that I will no longer comment on this. We have all made our points and remain as alien to each other as we have ever done. I think we have proved a very interesting fact over the last few days. Some of us remain horrorfied by it. But facts are facts.

Great post, thanks.  :Sparkyticus:

I disagree with most of it, but still!

You say porn star, I say a place in the history books, for instance.

Perhaps I'd feel differently watching MOTD after watching Fulham v Stevenage, but I think there's a lot of honour in being, for instance, a R.U. Saint Gilloise type club (Sipwell's Belgian team) - 11 league titles but now playing in division three.

Also, you're not in the minority - more than half of the vote is for Premier League success!

[Matt Inglis]

If you were to say 'win a trophy and be relegated, leaving the future open' I would go for the trophy, in the knowledge we could eventually make our way back to the Premier League again! But the way this has been presented, makes it seem as if, if I were to choose the trophy option we would be relegated and never recover, making the only trophy we could EVER win again would be the Johnstones Paint or worse!
I'd certainly take Premier League safety over plunging into the abyss and 'never' returning. However if the future were uncertain, i.e. we could get promoted again, I would certainly go for a trophy.
Not sure whether I'd go for the FA Cup or the Europa League though. The Europa League may not be around forever, where as the FA Cup could be a place in history forever. Deserves a poll in itself, that one. Although I'm sure one has been made before.

[VicHalomsLovechild]

Competing in the Europa doesn't mean relegation. Crap managers and poor players equal relegation. We don't have the first and hardily any of the second. 
Mostly sellout games and acceptable ST prices show that it's not just the team that's well managed. Europa is the ideal competition for a club of our size. Did we sell more tickets last season because of the excitement of beating Wigan (no offence) or was it people seeing Fulham beat big European teams the previous season?
As Finn pointed out the chances of us going down grow each season but without Europa and the sponsorship, players and support that can bring! those odds increase. Embrace Europa and all it can bring. 

PS cheers Epsom, once upon a time we didn't agree on much but it's always nice to receive a bit of support.