Truly shocking images but they need to be seen

[SHADY1]

The link below has some WW2 photos

Be warned the Holocaust ones are brutal (they are split into groups so you do not have to look at them).

www.theatlantic.com/infocus/ww2.html


what a couple of people i know  have said after looking at them..... "Dont think theres a word that describe some of them pics. Hard to believe that it all happened barely a lifes time ago.
and
just spent near on an hour and half going through them all,some amazing pictures and some that are so so shocking but it's something everyone should see especially the younger generation maybe they would understand what there grandparents went through etc etc.........

RIP and thank you.

[TonyGilroy]

It needs perhaps to be said that the Holocaust was not amongst the reasons for the Second World War.

Of itself, of course, in retrospect it stands as a justification but that was not why we or any of the Allies went to war.

An interesting thought is how much leeway we would have allowed Hitler in dealing with his "domestic" issues had he not invaded his neighbours. I suspect that we'd have made noises in objection but done nothing more.

Let's remember the refusal of the Americans and British to admit large numbers of Jewish refugees before the war.

[SHADY1]

amazing pics though or haven't you bothered looking  .....

[TonyGilroy]

I don't want to look to be honest.

I don't need pictures to understand the horror and lunacy of war.

If they're pictures of holocaust victims they could easily be related to me.

[SHADY1]

Can't argue with that but you could skip that section ... the pictures aren't there to gloryfy anything they're hard hitting pics to stir emotions but not insult any group.  And will touch the hearts of many and if it makes anyone stop and think how so many millions suffered its worth looking at and posting. Maybe i've picked the wrong place to post the link in some eyes but hopefully others will look and understand my reasons.

[Lighthouse]

I agree that some of us don't need pictures to remind us or inform us. Clearly some do especially those that no longer have a connection to it through family members. We used to have tv and radio progs about war to inform us. Now we seem to have nothing but the rather dire series on modern soldiers facing conflict and being far from ready for the bullets coming at them.

Information is power. I don't need to be told when to remember the fallen and injured. But clearly as time goes on, more and more people do.

[aussierod]

What has this to do with Fulham? The whole poppy debate has also got out of hand, it is on the england players armbands and respects will be shown by all.

Can we just move on from all this war stuff as the holocaust is just the tip of mny icebergs (what Isreal is doing to Palestinians for instance is appalling, watch the film Occupation 101 if you've any interest), but can we now go back to using this forum for Fulham stuff???

[Lighthouse]

What has this to do with Fulham? The whole poppy debate has also got out of hand, it is on the england players armbands and respects will be shown by all.

Can we just move on from all this war stuff as the holocaust is just the tip of mny icebergs (what Isreal is doing to Palestinians for instance is appalling, watch the film Occupation 101 if you've any interest), but can we now go back to using this forum for Fulham stuff???

But then we delve into politics which is not allowed on the site. FOF have a poppy on the title page and as such have allowed comments about remembrance. The football debate is about football. This thread clearly is about the same. Not about war or politics. If it was some of our older members would have flounced off because they cannot debate politics anyway. 065.gif

[Logicalman]

I have to say, I also grew up hearing first-hand of the horrors of what happened, not only in the concentration camps, but of the war itself (I separate the two).
It happened a generation ago, and many of those that gave first-hand accounts are no longer with us, but that doesn't mean we should now forget or let it pass into historical memory only.

The generations growing up now need to also understand that what happened there is just as important as any other fact of history, and they should always be aware of what the human race is capable of doing to itself.

Thanks Shady, tomorrow we will remember those of our kin, and the many others, that gave their lives in the hope that we would be a better race. My own father never got over the war, he lived until he was 69, but he never got over it.

[Jimpav]

I went to Auchwitz/Birkenau and a few of the other sites of the holocaust when I was in Krakow last year.

A truly haunting experience that I would recommend if you ever get the chance to visit. It didn't help me understand how or why such a tragedy could occur but it certainly put it in perspective.

Time should never be allowed to forget.

[Burt]

Can we just move on from all this war stuff as the holocaust is just the tip of mny icebergs (what Isreal is doing to Palestinians for instance is appalling, watch the film Occupation 101 if you've any interest), but can we now go back to using this forum for Fulham stuff???

There are two sides to every coin... I am sure that all the Israelis in Sderot will be able to point to the hundreds of missiles fired from Gaza that land in their city every year.

Which is why I agree with you Mr Aussierod, we are probably best leaving politics at home when visiting FOF, and keeping things to football generally and Fulham in particular!

Greater minds than ours have yet to get to grips with world peace, etc.

[TonyGilroy]

Time should never be allowed to forget.

Except it does of course.

I'm 61 and events in my lifetime are things my children studied as history.

The Great War is still real to me because I remember grandparents who lived through it but the Crimean War or the Napoleonic Wars for example no doubt were equally brutal but have no resonance for me.

Today's kids probably feel the same about WW1 and their children will be equally distanced from WW2.

Growing up in the 60s I really thought my generation would manage things differently but looking around at today's conflicts and possible future conflicts currently in preparation (Iran for instance) just fills me with despair.

War is never the answer. We should be civilized enough to understand that and it would help if Remembrance Day really was still about that (remembering how awful war is) and not about glorifying militaristic and jingoistic excess.

[SHADY1]

If anyones offended i'm sorry if anyones has looked properly at the pictures and learn't anything and it has stired emotions not previously stired then i'm glad i put the link....
Its made me feel a little more humble to all those who fell and survived nothing political about it in my eyes just an understanding of what those people went through many without choice many to save king & country.
11am 11/11/11 don't let it pass without at least a thought.... whichever side of the line you stand on.

[ScalleysDad]

I sent the link to offspring No.1 who is reading modern history and politices at UEA. His group and indeed his housemates are some of the most politically aware young types I have ever met and they frequently acknowledge the importance of our more recent history.He replied with a sombre "wow". He might use some of the Russian pictures or pass the link on so your endevours will have some reward.

[LBNo11]

...even though I have a good understanding of history, and have seen similar pictures from WWII at the IWM and in books etc., and had first hand accounts from my dad, and I have read of wars from ancient times right through to the present time, so it is in my mind important to remind ourselves, and new generations, of homo sapiens inhumanity to their fellows under the banner of what seduces the weak or greedy or religiously intolerant.

Without educating or reminding people of what has gone before and the suffering that happened as a result we would be guilty of letting ignorance and denial prevail.

Thank you for the reminder...

[finnster01]

I echo those sentiments Mr Shady and Mr LB.

As horrible as it is, it is not something we should not forget.