Strikers

[cmg]

 Mr CorkedHat's enduring chagrin at the departure of Len Quested ('Who Remembers This Game' thread) put me in mind of my own early indication that supporting Fulham was never going to be without pain when, after losing the Cup semi-final, we shipped out Roy Dwight to Nottingham Forest.

I include an updated (I hope) list of our 30(-ish) plus scorers since the mid 50's showing appearances, goals and goals/game.
For various reasons we were unable to hold on to Dwight, Rooke, Clarke, Saha and Marsh (even Ivor departed for a while) and if you add Macdonald to the list (5 in 13 for us) it helps explain why we have, from time to time, had goalscoring problems.

One or two other observations:
The more recent players are slightly disadvantaged in the goal per game ratio, as their appearances include substitutions.
Many of these were not just strikers (Dwight, Leggat, Stevens etc. which adds to their 'value'. Morgs and Langley were, of course, defenders.
Great memories all the way down the list.
Apologies for any cock-ups (League goals only included)

Roy Dwight      72   54   0.75       Ronnie Rooke      105   70   0.67       Bedford Jezzard      292   155   0.53       Allan Clarke      86   45   0.52       Graham Leggat      254   127   0.50       Louis Saha      117   53   0.45       Maurice Cook      221   89   0.40       Gordon Davies      396   159   0.40       Rodney Marsh      79   27   0.34       Mick Conroy      94   32   0.34       Steve Earle      291   98   0.34       John Mitchell      169   56   0.33       Tosh Chamberlain      187   57   0.30       Arthur Stevens      386   110   0.28       Brian McBride      151   41   0.27       Dean Coney      211   56   0.27       Clive Walker      111   29   0.26       Barry Hales      175   44   0.25       Johnny Haynes      594   147   0.25       Viv Busby      118   29   0.25       Gary Brazil      214   48   0.22       Bobby Robson      344   77   0.22       Luis Boa Morte      205   45   0.22       Jimmy Conway      316   67   0.21       Clint Dempsey      171   36   0.21       Charlie Mitten      154   32   0.21       Steed Malbranque      172   32   0.19       Johnny Key      163   29   0.18       Les Barrett      423   75   0.18       Robert Wilson      223   38   0.17       Gary Barnett      182   31   0.17       Jimmy Hill      276   41   0.15       Simon Morgan      356   49   0.14       Barry Lloyd      257   29   0.11       Alan Mullery      364   37   0.10       Jim Langley      323   31   0.10

[ImperialWhite]

Bedford Jezzard - more than a goal every other game, over 200 games. Wow.

Am I right in thinking that he was part of the England team that got hammered by Hungary back in the 50s?

[finnster01]

Bedford Jezzard - more than a goal every other game, over 200 games. Wow.

Am I right in thinking that he was part of the England team that got hammered by Hungary back in the 50s?

Who didn't get hammered by that Hungarian team in the fifties? Nothing to be ashamed of.  Puskas was the Messi of the day.

[cmg]

Yes, Jezzard played in the 1-7 stuffing in Budapest.
As you say, almost unbeatable at the time. Not only Puskas, but Hidegkuti (who played such a deep-lying centre-forward role that the England defence, more used to conventional set-ups, couldn't even find him let alone mark him), Bozsik the playmaker, Czibor and the amazing Sandor Kocsis who scored 153 goals in 145 games for Honved and then, when he defected to the west managed 42 in 75 for Barcelona. He managed 75 in 68 games for Hungary. (I haven't got these numbers round the wrong way!).

They couldn't beat the W.Germans in the 1954 WC final, so, when I get the flux-capacitor on the old De Lorean fired up, it'll be Hungary(54) V Holland (74) for me to find out who was the best team never to win the WC.

[HatterDon]

getting slapped around by Hungary was the best thing that ever happened to the English game. For the very first time, the English could no longer fool themselves that, since they'd invented the game, they were the world's best in it. Thanks largely to that match, there was a revolution in training, coaching, conditioning, and tactics -- basically, all over Europe. And, once Puskas escaped during the Hungarian Revolt and wound up at Real, the Hungarian system became ingrained in European club football as well.


but I digress

[ImperialWhite]

getting slapped around by Hungary was the best thing that ever happened to the English game. For the very first time, the English could no longer fool themselves that, since they'd invented the game, they were the world's best in it. Thanks largely to that match, there was a revolution in training, coaching, conditioning, and tactics -- basically, all over Europe. And, once Puskas escaped during the Hungarian Revolt and wound up at Real, the Hungarian system became ingrained in European club football as well.


but I digress

As you say Finn, no shame in losing to the Magyars.

And, as you say, HD, our two thrashings at the hands of the Hungarians probably won us a World Cup. Having just read Bobby Charlton's book on his England days (which I highly recommend - if only for repeated praise of our Haynes and Cohen), it seems that Alf Ramsey was very very influenced by these games (he was right back in the Wembley defeat).

[Burt]

Just out of interest, what would AJ and BZ's Goals : Games ratio be?

[richie17]

Back then we used to train without the ball, the idea being that the players would be hungrier for it on matchdays!

That Hungary team may have been the best ever.  They lost to West Germany but Puskas wasn't fit, the game was played on a bog, and Germany had advanced studs to help them cope with this.  Also rumours of drug taking by the Germans.

If ever I get my football DVD fight club going then I'll definitely show England v Hungary one night, it's well worth a watch, although it does show how much time on the ball everyone had back then.

[richie17]

On the original point though, it's apples and oranges: you really can't compare between eras. 

Ronnie Rooke played in the 30s and 40s and went to Arsenal after the war so not sure if the list is as it's meant to be. Bob Thomas who played in the thirties scored stacks.  Just a function of the times when goals were much more common.

Although I still think Leggat to be one of the game's greats: all those goals came in the first division.

[bog]

I am glad that someone has recalled Roy Dwight's scoring exploits. Usually it is because of his uncleship to Elton John.
Roy's goal's ratio was exceptional for the res and when he stepped in to take over from the unfortunate Bedford he continued to score very well. Extremely disappointed when he went to Notts Forest. Grrrr. He continued to score well there and had done so in the '59 cup final before breaking his leg in that game. This saw the end of his playing days. He managed Tooting & Mitcham for a while and enjoyed a good FA cup run with them. Good player was Roy. 

[bog]

Good to read of the magnificent Hungarians of the '50s. If anyone cares to read Puskas's aubiogaphy that is some read. Did anyone know that when they were training for the first game at Wembley they used Craven Cottage?
They should have won the 1954 World Cup. Made us look clowns they did in both those games. 13 goals in two games.     

[cmg]

Just out of interest, what would AJ and BZ's Goals : Games ratio be?

AJ 77/13 = 0.17
BZ 87/18 = 0.21

using FFC's current fugures.
That's league only - both would look better if goals in Europe were included.
The nearest Ronnie Rooke got to scoring in Europe were the goals he scored at Fratton Park - I know he is outside the "mid 50s" I mentioned, but I included him because he was a good example of a ready scorer who we couldn't keep hold of. His rate actually improved at Arsenal.

Graham Leggat (the more I think about what he contributed and his enthusiasm and the more I look at his record, the more I am convinced of his true greatness) actually had one season in Div 2 (he scored 21 goals. It was our promotion season when some of the opposition hit upon the idea of tight marking everybody else except Haynes. Johnny, being deprived of suitable targets to pass to, was forced to stick the ball into the net 26 times instead.)

All of Allan Clarke's goals were in the top league.