It Could Take Ruiz 7-8 Months To Come Good - Jol

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Am I alone in wondering if this is (yet another) swipe at the current lot who, according to some, may all be gone come 1st February?

Are we all agreed the basic problem is that the squad, particularly the older heads, aren't happy with the system Jol wants us to use or not capable of playing in it? If this is the case, then January is going to be massive. By Jol's own admission, new players take a while to become acclimatised, so a large influx probably unlikely, meaning a large exodus equally unlikely.

The question, from where I see it, is at what point does Jol simply revert to the system our current squad have been pretty bloody good at for the last few seasons? There's a demonstration of weakness in such an action, a demonstration of player power almost. Because I feel a lot of the underperforming players are too old, or on the way there, my support, for the time being, is for the manager. Well for the future of the club in fact, but if there's a line in the sand I suppose I'm on the manager's side right now. But that's at least partly down to the age of the guys on the other side of the line rather than anything Jol has shown me. Sooner or later Jol is going to have to start picking up points (don't fancy us for any tomorrow, albeit didn't last weekend either), and if that means a large plate of humble pie then frankly so be it.

There has to be change at some point. We could eek it out until May, with the same players who have been playing for the last few years or start the changes, as Jol has done, and integrate them into the team. We have not played particularly badly this season, especially against Everton and Spurs, and are in somewhat of a false position.

Zamora and AJ have woefully underperformed this season. Why should we throw our lot in with them rather than the manager who is trying to take this team forward? Any manager who had come in would have started to change things, so the players would have had to suck it up at some point.

When two consecutive managers come in and have issues with 'player power' what is the common denominator?

[SG]

'Zamora and AJ have woefully underperformed this season. Why should we throw our lot in with them rather than the manager who is trying to take this team forward?'

I have never subscribed to the view that certain players are not trying when they step on the field because they are not happy/fallen out with manager etc. But I have to say I think Zamora's apparent attitude on the pitch for much of this season has been woeful. If that is down to carrying an injury that would explain it. If it is down to a 'bust up' with the manager then Bob can go in January and good riddance to him. No one player is bigger than the club

[BalDrick]

'Why should we throw our lot in with them rather than the manager who is trying to take this team forward?'

I don't know - I really am on the fence on this one, can see both sides. But something has got to change hasn't it? Yeah we've been a bit unlucky but there are probably at least a dozen sets of fans in the Prem saying that.

'I have never subscribed to the view that certain players are not trying when they step on the field because they are not happy/fallen out with manager etc.'

Really? Okay not trying might be going too far but not putting in the extra yard/10% that can, and indeed has, made all the difference.


'But I have to say I think Zamora's apparent attitude on the pitch for much of this season has been woeful. If that is down to carrying an injury that would explain it. If it is down to a 'bust up' with the manager then Bob can go in January and good riddance to him. No one player is bigger than the club'

Absolutely agree with that - he's been prety woeful and the fact he's had his long-awaited, some might say long-overdue, England call-up is strange in the extreme (or a demonstration of the paucity of options but I don't care about that).

I'm not sure it's going way out of leftfield to say there is some disharmony in the squad, and Jol will know who the instigator(s) is/are. And will probably ship them out, or try to. What isn't open to question is the fact that right now Zamora's worth loads more than he's ever been, or ever will be. AJ, well the contract situation will mean we won't get a lot for him, and for that reason I think I'd probably stick with him. But for me, and I am aware this may read like madness bearing in mind league place, next month could well see the departures of Dembele and Zamora - £15M at least for the pair, probably closer to £20M. But, as ever at this time of year, it's what we do with the money. And how quickly the replacements take to do something - 7/8 months will be way too late.

Also think the Europa thing has been a pain in the arse this season, both on a personal level (can't be bothered with Sunday games) and on a player fitness level, and indeed on a time on the training ground level; imagine if we'd had the inside of every week to get the squad to learn the Jol way. Surely it'd have started taking root a lot earlier and would be reaping rewards, in the form of not only points but also nice football.

'BalDrick - Don't forget second half of last season we looked a damn good side after the "player power" revolt where the old, over the hill, troublesome players spoke to Hughes.'

Do you imagine Jol would listen though? It is to Hughes' credit that he did.

[Burt]

A manager has a right to manage.

The players may grumble and prefer to play another way, but ultimately Jol is the gaffer.

The players have to be professional enough to recognise that and step up to the plate.

If they don't like it then they will need to move on.

As it happens, our team is one of the oldest and slowest going, and Jol's mission to lower the age by blending in younger players is the right thing to do. The problem isn't going to go away. Doing nothing is only delaying the inevitable, and in fact it makes the situation worse.

Jol's challenge is to do this in a way that does not crucify our premier league status. So the transition has to be careful etc. At the moment I think he is being quite cautious, but as the season progresses we should see more from our reserves set up (Frei, Briggs etc) and the new faces (Sa, Ruiz, and anyone who comes in the January transfer window).

[Alternative]

I am not sure there is evidence that Jol has attempted that much in the way of change.

He has used the fewest number of players of any Premier League side.

The way we played at Twente was not unfamiliar under previous managers. No control of midfield. No speed going forward. Tentative. Long balls that often gifted possession. Failure to take chances. Losing goal at the last knockings.

[The Rock]

Home against Swansea Norwich Wigan and Sunderland in last 10 games - no wonder it seems like the games are coming think and fast against all top aides.

Bryan looked as good tonight as we've seen. He still looks sorta lost but starting to gel.  Anyone else get excited when watching him on the ball? You know the feeling?

[bigalffc]

His passing was off but you can see he's got something, just hope he gets it all together soon

[MJG]

He was not helped today by Bobby (who seemed to have Set up camp about 25 yards yards out on the left hand side of the Liverpool defence) who did not move into space or make angles for him.
Ruiz made a very good tackle in the last couple of minutes in the RB position.

[McBridefan1]

It Could Take Ruiz 7-8 Months To Come Good

right it has to be said ... it only takes me a minute. hey ooooooh :drums:

[elgreenio]

no denying he's got an eye for a pass but he still loses the ball too much for my liking, especially against a team like Liverpool. Also not sure if i've seen him sprint yet  :dft009: