Tactics v Quality

[cmg]

 
There was, probably, a time when football competitions were invariably won by the team with the best players. Eventually it was found that other factors could be employed to overcome this inevitability. Thus was born coaching, systems, tactics etc. Most often this kind of tactical organization revolved around negating the impact of the other teams' superior players. Whenever a system relying on superior attacking skill evolved, so the opposition set out to counter this advantage, usually by some refinement of defensive technique and organization. Herbert Chapman changed his centre-half into a centre-back and withdrew one of his inside-forwards to cover the gap in midfield.  Helenio Herrera (and others) developed 'catenaccio' to counteract the free flowing Real Madrid style to such effect that it almost strangled the Italian game at the same time as it came to dominate European club football, Celtic showed that attacking football could occasionally prevail, but it took the equally defensive minded Liverpool (Shankley/Paisley) to wrest European club primacy away from the Italians. Ramsey eschewed wingers. The Dutch 'Total Football' was eventually overcome by today's multi-layered systems. Brazil and Holland have always been the exceptions (and even then Holland weren't ever dominant). So, if you don't have the kind of talent that Spain can muster, then you have to look to a Hodgson, or someone similar, to make the best of what you have got, and that, more often than not, is going to be based on prevention rather than creation.

And yet, having said all this, here's a very funny thing. Of the 14 teams to have won the World Cup since I started to take an active interest in the game, all but one have, whatever tactics or system they have employed, had at least THREE World-class players in the team. By 'World-class' I don't mean just a good international but a player  whom it could be sensibly argued was the best in the World in his position or role. There would, therefore, be only about 20 - 30 contenders at any given time.

The list (just in case it may interest some and to show I'm not making it up) would be:

1958 Brazil - Gilmar, N Santos, Didi, Garrincha, Pele
1962 Brazil - Gilmar, N Santos, Didi, Garrincha
1966 England - Banks, Moore, R Charlton
1970 Brazil - Pele, Gerson, Jairzinho, Tostao, Clodoaldo, Rivellino, Carlos Alberto
1974 Germany - Breitner, Beckenbauer, Overath, Mueller
1978 Argentina - Fillol, Kempes, Ardiles, Pasarella
1982 Italy - Zoff, Rossi, Cabrini, Scirea, (Gentile?)
1986 Argentina - The exception. Maradona and who else? Maybe Valdano
1990 Germany - Matthaus, Brehme, Klinsmann, (Voller?), (Hassler?)
1994 Brazil - Romario, Bebeto, Dunga, Marco Silva
1998 France - Zidane, Desailly, Thuram, Lizerazu
2002 Brazil - Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos, Rivaldo
2006 Italy - Cannavaro, Buffon, Pirlo
2010 Spain - Casillas, Iniesta, Xavi, Xabi Alonso etc.

(Back to 1990 I've used the FIFA annual rankings, before that the picks are more subjective)

Bottom line? Get your tactics, systems and organization right - but before you think you might win anything - make sure you've got some actually bloody good players.

[NogoodBoyo]

Good points.  So how come England, with its huge player base, consistently fails to produce world-class players?
Nogood "a big ask that one, isit" Boyo

[west kowloon white]

We do produce clas players-Haynes ,Rooney,Lacey ,Storey -the list is endless

[jarv]

Having 3 top players works at club level too. Best, Law, Charlton and dare I say it, in the 70s, Osgood, Cooke and Hudson.

Liverpool had Dalglish, Sounness and Hansen. Leeds, Giles, Bremner and Clarke.

[NogoodBoyo]

A couple of Socts'n'irons in there, Jarv.
Nogood "begging the question, isit" Boyo

[NogoodBoyo]

But my question for Kowloon is: "How come we haven't won anything since 1966?
Nogood "fair question, m'lud, isit" Boyo

[cmg]

Good points.  So how come England, with its huge player base, consistently fails to produce world-class players?
Nogood "a big ask that one, isit" Boyo

Ah, Mr Boyo, now you're leaving out the easy questions.

Actually we do produce the occasional world-class player eg. Beckham and, maybe today, Rooney - the trick seems to be to produce them in bunches. The last time I can recall, at a pinch, we might have had three world-class talents at the same time was 1990 (Shilton, Gascoigne, Lineker) - when we made it to the semis.

[west kowloon white]

Sorry-what did Wales win in 1996?
But on a serious note Trevor Brooking has all these concerns in hand

[west kowloon white]

1966-it's an age thing/

[craig10]

the problem is every national team has improved at playing football, all the easy things, positioning, passing, movement etc etc whereas England have either stagnated or gone backwards.... look at the likes of spain, the do the easy things so well they have become great - every says about their passing but it is their closing own and off the ball running that maks them great... USA are a good example they have come on leaps and bounds

england are static therefor can not spot a pass as it doesnt exist

[Burt]

How much of it is down to the lack of opportunities within the Premier League?

If there was a rule saying that each club had to have on the field of play at any stage 8 home-grown players then you would see more strength and depth in the England squad.

In a strange way, the Premier League has been slowly strangling the life out of our international team.

[Berserker]

Totally agree Burt. I was just discussing this with somebody last night

[Burt]

Likewise, along with really, truly, how many of the England squad are truly world-class?

My worry is that if we get the draw we need against the Ukraine, those old expectation levels will go through the roof once more when the reality is that we are nowhere near the likes of Spain, Germany etc.

Having said all that,

COME ON ENGLAND!

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[craig10]

Likewise, along with really, truly, how many of the England squad are truly world-class?

My worry is that if we get the draw we need against the Ukraine, those old expectation levels will go through the roof once more when the reality is that we are nowhere near the likes of Spain, Germany etc.

Having said all that,

COME ON ENGLAND!

000en.gif

Burt i do agree with both ur statements however most the teams we play dont have that many world class players (Belgium, Sweden) yet they still out play us......

our players seem to play completely diff when it comes to international games to prem league games, i have to wonder why maybe the lack of a huge pay cheque?

its just frustrating to watch how static our players are, there is very little to no movement

however if u fancy a laugh, next game count how many times Parker does a pirouette when he gets the ball..... its like a nervous twitch hahahaha....