Are we overlooking Jols good work/plans?

[Andy_M]

At the weekend me and my brother had a chat quite a chat about Fulham, the coming season, the transfer window and Jol's reign as manager to date.

With all the transfer speculation and worry about we need to sign a striker, we need to sign someone to replace Murphy, what is going to happen with the 2 Dem's etc. I can't help thinking that we may be overlooking just what a good job Jol has done for the CLUB and that he may have a pretty good long term plan.

To date he's made 1 considerable signing in Ruiz. Who we didn't really see much of last year through 1. not being ready and up to speed with the Prem and 2. getting injured. Personally I thought when he got injured it was a real shame as he was just starting to look like he had finally got to grips with what's expected of him and how to play in the Prem.
His only 'cash' signing was Riise, who after a shaky and slow start (mainly due to looking overweight and being unfit) I think I can say won over the Fulham fans after the 'mummy's boy' stuff and has proved that he is still a top quality LB. I'm still waiting for him to rocket one in from 30 yards - I'm convinced it's coming!

His other signings - Diarra, Pog, Grygera etc. were all 'low risk' they were all 1 year deals or loan deals or short term deals. This means that the clubs money was not tied up for years to come in paying players and having to keep players on their books that could have been flops. Yes we missed out on signign the Pog but I personally don't think he will have the same impact next season as he did during his start for us.

This appears to be Jol's strategy, if a player is older and unproven in the Prem he will only loan them or give them a short term deal thus keeping the risk to the Club's long term wage structure very low.

He's done a great job of moving on the older, higher wage earners (Muphy, Zamora and AJ). This not only frees up money to offer the Dem's better deals but will help the Club's finances in the long term.

It also means that the thriving youth structure we have can be given the chances to progress into the first team as we have seen with the likes of Briggs, Frie and Kacka. As we seem to be signing a new young upcoming player every other week I think Jol is making a quite clear effort to lower the age of the squad and to help the club in the long term.

I personally don't think we'll see Jol spend a lot this summer unless there is a player he is 100% convinced will do the job in the Prem or has been proven in the Prem (Rodellaga).

All in all I think Jol is doing an amazing job not just for the team but for the club as a whole. Whether this is his strategy or it's coming from above him we don't know but it certainly does seem to follow what he said when he came here as manager in saying he was going to lower the age of the playing staff at the club which can only be a good thing for us in the long term!

[TonyGilroy]

I agree with that. Certainly makes more sense than being critical of anyone we sign as too young, too old, too cheap, too expensive and, above all, unproven.

[Andy_M]

I think after spending £10mil on Ruiz Jol is very wary that the next time he spends 'big' that player is going to have to make a hell on an impact and be worth every penny that is paid.

[General]

I looked at our squad.

Dempsey, Dembele, Diarra, Hangeland, Petric, Ruiz, Senderos, Hughes, Schwarzer, Rodallega, Grygera, Riise, Duff and even Sidwell!

If you had told us five years ago that we'd have that calibre of player throughout our squad you would have been politely laughed at and told to not get ahead of yourself - not to mention having seen the likes of Murphy here.

We should really take time every now and then to realise how far we've come, how good our squad is (although not a large enough squad) and the fact that we now have a manager in Jol who's highly regarded as one of the best in europe and arguably the best academy system and Chairman in the country.

Not to mention the likes of Kasami and Gecov who are two highly rated talents, Kacaniklic and Frei who has bundles of potential and Stockdale too.

The summer transfer window has barely opened.

We're in the next stage of going from being a top 10 side to being a competitor in my mind of realistically having a go at the top 6 (our second half of season form had us in the top 6)

for all intensive purposes this is a good club that's always done things properly and is starting to see the results of that on and off the pitch.

[F(f)CUK]

I agree with that. Certainly makes more sense than being critical of anyone we sign as too young, too old, too cheap, too expensive and, above all, unproven.

Take out the words "too cheap" and "too young" and you have the QPR business model.

[Lighthouse]

Jol had a set idea of how he wanted us to play. We clearly didn't have the players when he first came to play his formation. They looked confused and we were very inconsistant during games. One minute working well, the next very poor and even embarrasing in our confusion. Round pegs etc.

As the season went on Ruiz became more aware of what he was supposed to do. There is no doubt that he is a good player and even a great player waiting to happen. Jol changing the overrated Dembele to play in central midfield was a good move. Although Dembele, like Ruiz can do more damage playing further forward.

We ended the season very well which may have glossed over problems. Jol has made it clear that this team is his and any player who doesn't like it can move on. Jol and the MD have brought in players on free transfers and end of contracts. But is he doing a good job? I have hopes or had hopes of this being a great Fulham side. Under Jol we have yet to see more than the odd half of a game of anything close to being great. But as I become older the less time I have for the so called building process of the squad. So far so ok. This season we shall see. Sodding about with relegation is not an option. This side is top half and better. Or should be. If we can improve year on year given our financial shortcomings then he is doing a great job. Too early to say that he is doing anything more than a fair job.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

I agree with that. Certainly makes more sense than being critical of anyone we sign as too young, too old, too cheap, too expensive and, above all, unproven.

But are we not allowed to proffer an opinion on a messageboard?

I know you hate talking about transfers, but at this time of year that is all there is to talk about, particularly since we have witnessed the biggest clear out since the 'summer of Sanchez'.

I will always get behind Fulham players, but I dont think this precludes me from assessing the transfer if it happens?

[TonyGilroy]

Of course you're entitled to express an opinion and the rest of us can then express an opinion on that opinion in response to which you can............

Beats working.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Jol had a set idea of how he wanted us to play. We clearly didn't have the players when he first came to play his formation. They looked confused and we were very inconsistant during games. One minute working well, the next very poor and even embarrasing in our confusion. Round pegs etc.

As the season went on Ruiz became more aware of what he was supposed to do. There is no doubt that he is a good player and even a great player waiting to happen. Jol changing the overrated Dembele to play in central midfield was a good move. Although Dembele, like Ruiz can do more damage playing further forward.

We ended the season very well which may have glossed over problems. Jol has made it clear that this team is his and any player who doesn't like it can move on. Jol and the MD have brought in players on free transfers and end of contracts. But is he doing a good job? I have hopes or had hopes of this being a great Fulham side. Under Jol we have yet to see more than the odd half of a game of anything close to being great. But as I become older the less time I have for the so called building process of the squad. So far so ok. This season we shall see. Sodding about with relegation is not an option. This side is top half and better. Or should be. If we can improve year on year given our financial shortcomings then he is doing a great job. Too early to say that he is doing anything more than a fair job.

Are you not being a bit unfair here - saying that the early season problems were of Jol's making but the late season run of good form was simply covering flaws rather than the team starting to gel?

[Andy_M]

Jol had a set idea of how he wanted us to play. We clearly didn't have the players when he first came to play his formation. They looked confused and we were very inconsistant during games. One minute working well, the next very poor and even embarrasing in our confusion. Round pegs etc.

As the season went on Ruiz became more aware of what he was supposed to do. There is no doubt that he is a good player and even a great player waiting to happen. Jol changing the overrated Dembele to play in central midfield was a good move. Although Dembele, like Ruiz can do more damage playing further forward.

We ended the season very well which may have glossed over problems. Jol has made it clear that this team is his and any player who doesn't like it can move on. Jol and the MD have brought in players on free transfers and end of contracts. But is he doing a good job? I have hopes or had hopes of this being a great Fulham side. Under Jol we have yet to see more than the odd half of a game of anything close to being great. But as I become older the less time I have for the so called building process of the squad. So far so ok. This season we shall see. Sodding about with relegation is not an option. This side is top half and better. Or should be. If we can improve year on year given our financial shortcomings then he is doing a great job. Too early to say that he is doing anything more than a fair job.

Are you not being a bit unfair here - saying that the early season problems were of Jol's making but the late season run of good form was simply covering flaws rather than the team starting to gel?

Without wanting to 'gang' up on Lighthouse I had thought the same. I think we played some terrific football at times in the second half of the season and I don't tink there was much covering of flaws. Perhaps you could eleborate on what flaws you saw?

[JBH]

Are you not being a bit unfair here - saying that the early season problems were of Jol's making but the late season run of good form was simply covering flaws rather than the team starting to gel?
[/quote

What flaws were these then?

[Lighthouse]

I think the critic of my post has been well made.  Although I did say the end of season  'may have glossed over problems'. I didn't mention flaws,floors or ceilings. Although the 'problems' may have been that Jol built a wall around certain players of the old guard and they were never going to fit.

If the credit for the improvement at the end of season should go to Jol. I take the point. Then this season, even with the influx of new players. His message will hopefully be picked up earlier. The wall that appeared at the edge of the area in the oppositions half should begin to come down. We should start to look a good side quicker than we did last year in the last third. If we do then I will go with the Jol is great. Until then he has done OK.

[Andy_M]

Lighthouse, what is your opinion on Jol's management of the 'club' and not just the 'team' i.e. not just the performances.

For example moving on the high wages earners of AJ and Zamora, the millions per year just moving those 2 on must have cut off the wage bill is surely something to be classed as more than OK?

[Lighthouse]

Lighthouse, what is your opinion on Jol's management of the 'club' and not just the 'team' i.e. not just the performances.

For example moving on the high wages earners of AJ and Zamora, the millions per year just moving those 2 on must have cut off the wage bill is surely something to be classed as more than OK?

I really don't know who the high wage earners were. I know BZ and AJ and Murphy were reported from an early stage to be having problems with the playing style of Jol. They have all gone. If the players that have come in are earning less then fine. But I really don't know so couldn't comment. Clearly Jol and his team have brought in players at the youth level. This makes sense and is a step forward with the economic structure of the club.

I really don't know how much say Jol has in the bringing in or ridding himself of players on the economic front. Is that the MDs job? However the youth improvement Jol has continued with and if that is down to him then he should be praised. Bottom line is what we do on the pitch. I think the club was in a good place before he came. It still is with the improvement at youth level. Which is why I wait for the improvement TO THE NEXT LEVEL. I am sure even with our shortcomings we can do that. Given time I hope Jol is the man to take us there. It is a big ask which is why he has done ok.

[TonyGilroy]

Next level?

Better than a club that can expect to finish between 8th and 12th?

Too big an ask as being wholly unrealistic in my opinion.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

I think the critic of my post has been well made.  Although I did say the end of season  'may have glossed over problems'. I didn't mention flaws,floors or ceilings. Although the 'problems' may have been that Jol built a wall around certain players of the old guard and they were never going to fit.

If the credit for the improvement at the end of season should go to Jol. I take the point. Then this season, even with the influx of new players. His message will hopefully be picked up earlier. The wall that appeared at the edge of the area in the oppositions half should begin to come down. We should start to look a good side quicker than we did last year in the last third. If we do then I will go with the Jol is great. Until then he has done OK.

I think the problem over recent seasons has been the lack of stability at the helm. Both Jol and Hughes got off to slow starts before the team saw their vision and adapted. The difference between the two is that Hughes buggered off when the challenge was put before him (I'm sure being told he would not get a shedload of money to replace the squad was a big factor) and Jol tackled it head on, with much success.

Depending on how things pan out over the rest of the transfer window, we should be fine next season. If we lose our key players we will struggle, but I am confident that the club is on the right track and has the right man in charge.

I can't agree that we have much of a next step to take as a club though, the glass ceiling is the Europa League for Fulham and pretty much any side outside the current top 6 (incl. our neighbours)

[Lighthouse]

Next level?

Better than a club that can expect to finish between 8th and 12th?

Too big an ask as being wholly unrealistic in my opinion.

So we are the best we can be and from now on only trying to keep at this level? Somewhat ironically I think the club CAN push on. But I believe I was in a minority when this came up a few seasons ago. That may be why I think Jol has done ok keeping at this level while others think he has done really well. Who would have thought it? I have more ambition for the club to improve.

[elgreenio]

I'm with Lighthouse on this. He's done what any Fulham manager should have done in finishing in the top 10. we've not yet completely grasped his methods of play but maybe this full pre-season and the transfers will help.

Let's not forget we couldn't get through quite a simple europa group on paper.

Oh, and getting Zamora/AJ/Murph off the wage bill means nothing when you go and replace it with more reasonably high wages. At least we got a fee out of Zamora.

Big season for Jol and next July is where we can really see whether he's done good work or not

Sent from my BlackBerry 9300 using Tapatalk

[TonyGilroy]

So we are the best we can be and from now on only trying to keep at this level? Somewhat ironically I think the club CAN push on. But I believe I was in a minority when this came up a few seasons ago. That may be why I think Jol has done ok keeping at this level while others think he has done really well. Who would have thought it? I have more ambition for the club to improve.

Obviously some mega rich Arab or Russian may take us over but unless that happens there is no way that we can aspire to match the Manchester clubs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool. The money simply isn't there.

We may have a particularly good season and they can have bad seasons which is how Newcastle finished 6th last season but consistently we will not match their performances and that will not be the manager's fault.

[Rupert]

I'm largely in agreement with Lighthouse here, Jol has had a good first season, thus has done "okay", but this and the next transfer windows will see his team fully form. By January 2013 we should have a good idea of how good, or otherwise, he is.

Whre I'm not in agreement is the "next level" comment, while it is all very laudable to be hoping for the club to move on to a higher level, I have to ask where the funds needed to finance such a push are supposed to come from? My opinion is that we are currently over-achieving, consecutive top ten finishes while in a sub-30,000 seater ground is an outstanding result, thanks to the efforts of all three of our most recent managers. Roy built the team, Hughes did not mess about with it much, Jol has started to dismantle it and (hopefully) replace it with a younger, but equivalent version, playing to a different style.

My "next level" would be success in one of the domestic cup competitions, much more realistic, I think, than crashing into the top six on a regular basis.