Sorry reading! Jols aftergame thoughts...

[General]

Berbatov a lone positive, says Jol

Fulham manager Martin Jol has praised new signing Dimitar Berbatov's performance in his side's Premier League defeat to West Ham.

The Bulgarian made his debut in Saturday's match at Upton Park the day after his deadline day transfer from Manchester United.

Fulham lost 3-0 - their second consecutive Premier League defeat - and Jol said the only positive was the class and quality shown by Berbatov on the pitch.

"We missed a few players in our creative department, behind the striker - Bryan Ruiz couldn't play, we did a test yesterday. And (Moussa) Dembele obviously was gone," Jol said.

"That is a worry because we have to find a balance for the future. The only positive thing today was to see (Dimitar) Berbatov again - to see his class, his quality, I've missed it."

The match marked the first in a West Ham shirt for England forward Andy Caroll and Jol admitted his players had failed to deal with the aerial threat from the former Liverpool man.

"Every game we have seen him, even at the European Championships, you see that he is great in the air, probably the best in the Premier League. But I still think that there are answers for that, but we couldn't cope with it," Jol said of Carroll.

The Dutchman added that he had been sad to see Dembele depart for Tottenham on the final day of the transfer window, but was positive his new-look squad would soon start to gel.

"I tried everything but we missed out on a couple of players yesterday. In the end you have to be happy that Berbatov is there, and (Hugo) Rodallega and Mladen (Petric)," he said.

"Dembele - I really thought he would have stayed because 15 million pounds is a big loss. But Tottenham paid up, they always do that and I know that from my time there. They've made life extremely miserable for me. But I think we have the players - maybe in a different system or concept - and we will come up with something."



http://uk.soccerway.com/news/2012/September/01/berbatov-a-lone-positive-says-jol/?


Feel sorry for him and for the fans and players - have been let down by the board this summer more than anything else - there should've been contingency plans in place and there weren't. There should have been players brought in regardless of Dembele or Dempsey to boost the squad early on to accomodate for the losses of Murphy, Gecov, Etuhu et al...

I'm sure it's not that straight forward, but it seems like we were trying to get deals done in days, so to not get them done in weeks/months is extremely deflating.

[Berserker]

Does anybody think Jol will walk of his own volition if things go bad as he didn't get the boards backing, or will he hopefully stick it out, please please stay

[Bradstow]

Does anybody think Jol will walk of his own volition if things go bad as he didn't get the boards backing, or will he hopefully stick it out, please please stay

This is my fear. I believe his contract expires June 2013. Certainly I would not be excited at the prospect of staying. Makes Mark Hughes' comments more understandable.

[General]

Does anybody think Jol will walk of his own volition if things go bad as he didn't get the boards backing, or will he hopefully stick it out, please please stay

I'd like to think that he aknowledges that the club made an effort and were caught out as even he didn't expect tottenham to come in for dembele by the sounds of it (despite £15 million not really being that much for top clubs) and by the looks of it we did make moves for some CM. the board or whoever is in charge of transfers shouldn't have been soo cocky about it. I do fear as we're in a very unhealthy and unstable position regarding almost all of our players apart from Richardson, Rodallega and Ruiz who have all signed long contracts.

[jarv]

General, I agree. This seems like an almighty cock up. There are literally loads of decent playmaker types out there. Some fail, some succeed, so it is always a risk. Murphy was a journeyman before he came to Fulham. Look how that worked out.

Central midfield does not look so good now. Diarra (excellent) and Sidwell (ordinary) and Baird (a defender) as backup. Not sure what system Jol will be thinking of but at the moment it looks like a chicken kiev recipe without the garlic butter.

It is going to have to be 4-2-something and hope nobody gets injured.  Baird could find himself trying to be in 3 positions at the same time.

With hindsight, should have offered Dempsey the 4 years he apparently wanted and kept Murphy, which would have meant 2 years.

[General]

General, I agree. This seems like an almighty cock up. There are literally loads of decent playmaker types out there. Some fail, some succeed, so it is always a risk. Murphy was a journeyman before he came to Fulham. Look how that worked out.

Central midfield does not look so good now. Diarra (excellent) and Sidwell (ordinary) and Baird (a defender) as backup. Not sure what system Jol will be thinking of but at the moment it looks like a chicken kiev recipe without the garlic butter.

It is going to have to be 4-2-something and hope nobody gets injured.  Baird could find himself trying to be in 3 positions at the same time.

With hindsight, should have offered Dempsey the 4 years he apparently wanted and kept Murphy, which would have meant 2 years.

He suggests that he's going to be having to come up with a new system. I'd expect us to be honest with you playing a 4-3-3 formation with more defensively minded wingers like duff playing in the middle three...

It's not a solution but it's our strongest option...

My starting line up would be...

--------------------Schwarzer------------------

Riether/Kelly----Hughes-----Hangeland-----Riise

Duff-----------------Diarra-------------Dejagah

Rodallega-----------Berbatov----------Petric


Ruiz isn't strong enough in the tackle at the moment and at retaining the ball to merit a start. If I did swap him with anyone though it would be Petric (which is a sad thing to say) because I thought Rodallega worked hard for us and Berba and he seemed to develop quite an interesting and fluid partnership in the 45 minutes I watched them play... obviously depending on how this goes you could quite easily move ruiz in behind berba and rodallega if we were doing well but it's important that we start strongly, especially against a team like West Brom.

Possession isn't an issue, we showed even against West Ham that we're still capable of getting good amounts of possession its about what we do with it though. Another answer would be Simon Davies (does anyone know where he's gone?). He and Duff together are a lot more competent and intelligent and would be ideal for those two Midfield births in the middle third.

[Admin]

I think there is a lot more to all this. There was always a risk of losing Dembele', I don't care what anyone says and if we were stupid enough to not have a plan B in place, then we are just simply stupid in my eyes. It also looked like we were not allowed to buy until we had sold, which again leads me to believe we were skint. By that time, it was far to late and we were dragging the likes of Huddlestone and Palacios down to Motspur park at with 20 minutes left of the window.

15 million in this day and age isn't a big amount for a player like Dembele' and I will have a bet now that he will be sold to the likes of Real Madrid and Barca for 35 million in a couple of seasons time.

There just seems to be a lot of unrest in the camp and I've heard that most but all pre-Jol players are not a lover of him. Jol has a history of falling out with players and I think this possibly going on at Fulham.

[beijing ben]

Berbatov a lone positive, says Jol

Fulham manager Martin Jol has praised new signing Dimitar Berbatov's performance in his side's Premier League defeat to West Ham.

The Bulgarian made his debut in Saturday's match at Upton Park the day after his deadline day transfer from Manchester United.

Fulham lost 3-0 - their second consecutive Premier League defeat - and Jol said the only positive was the class and quality shown by Berbatov on the pitch.

"We missed a few players in our creative department, behind the striker - Bryan Ruiz couldn't play, we did a test yesterday. And (Moussa) Dembele obviously was gone," Jol said.

"That is a worry because we have to find a balance for the future. The only positive thing today was to see (Dimitar) Berbatov again - to see his class, his quality, I've missed it."

The match marked the first in a West Ham shirt for England forward Andy Caroll and Jol admitted his players had failed to deal with the aerial threat from the former Liverpool man.

"Every game we have seen him, even at the European Championships, you see that he is great in the air, probably the best in the Premier League. But I still think that there are answers for that, but we couldn't cope with it," Jol said of Carroll.

The Dutchman added that he had been sad to see Dembele depart for Tottenham on the final day of the transfer window, but was positive his new-look squad would soon start to gel.

"I tried everything but we missed out on a couple of players yesterday. In the end you have to be happy that Berbatov is there, and (Hugo) Rodallega and Mladen (Petric)," he said.

"Dembele - I really thought he would have stayed because 15 million pounds is a big loss. But Tottenham paid up, they always do that and I know that from my time there. They've made life extremely miserable for me. But I think we have the players - maybe in a different system or concept - and we will come up with something."



http://uk.soccerway.com/news/2012/September/01/berbatov-a-lone-positive-says-jol/?


Feel sorry for him and for the fans and players - have been let down by the board this summer more than anything else - there should've been contingency plans in place and there weren't. There should have been players brought in regardless of Dembele or Dempsey to boost the squad early on to accomodate for the losses of Murphy, Gecov, Etuhu et al...

I'm sure it's not that straight forward, but it seems like we were trying to get deals done in days, so to not get them done in weeks/months is extremely deflating.

I agree with you that it's not that straightforward...

Dembele leaving gave us a much bigger problem than Dempsey. On paper, we have a ready made replacement in Ruiz and we knew well in advance that he wanted to go. To just have two days to replace Dembele was definitely not straightforward...

[itombomb]

The problem with Dembele going is that they seemingly didn't have much of a back-up plan in place, and in rushing things they couldn't get it done.

Boateng, the Belgian, Huddlestone and Palacios all linked on the last day and none came. Someone cocked up somewhere, particularly as Everton got the Belgian on loan.

[Admin]

The problem with Dembele going is that they seemingly didn't have much of a back-up plan in place, and in rushing things they couldn't get it done.

Boateng, the Belgian, Huddlestone and Palacios all linked on the last day and none came. Someone cocked up somewhere, particularly as Everton got the Belgian on loan.

Huddlestone and Palacios were rushed down to Motspur at last knockings. They went in, but never came out Fulham players.

[sumofallparts]

He seems quite direct - maybe as English is his 2nd language some things (maybe empathy) is lost in translation.

I have quite a few overseas clients in my job and some colleagues find certain ones very direct, bordering on rude - yet they are not.

Maybe the subtleties of "can you do this" as opposed to "this is what you will do" ?

Jol does seem to have 'Marmite' tendencies - but yes, alienation of certain players (ego's?) is definitely there.

[Admin]

He seems quite direct - maybe as English is his 2nd language some things (maybe empathy) is lost in translation.

I have quite a few overseas clients in my job and some colleagues find certain ones very direct, bordering on rude - yet they are not.

Maybe the subtleties of "can you do this" as opposed to "this is what you will do" ?

Jol does seem to have 'Marmite' tendencies - but yes, alienation of certain players (ego's?) is definitely there.

Very true, my partner is Polish and comes across as being very rude at times. She isn't, she is just very direct in her language.

[Berserker]

He seems quite direct - maybe as English is his 2nd language some things (maybe empathy) is lost in translation.

I have quite a few overseas clients in my job and some colleagues find certain ones very direct, bordering on rude - yet they are not.

Maybe the subtleties of "can you do this" as opposed to "this is what you will do" ?

Jol does seem to have 'Marmite' tendencies - but yes, alienation of certain players (ego's?) is definitely there.

Very true, my partner is Polish and comes across as being very rude at times. She isn't, she is just very direct in her language.

I have that problem but I put it down to being a Sagittarian, plus a family tradition. Too honest for my own good sometimes, then feel awful for it afterwards

[cebu]

If MAF wants Jol to stay, he may well have to drag out his wallet in January ... and no excuses, as we have plenty of time to set up any deal or deals.

Maybe Mr Sipwell will - once he's finished with his doctorate - find some underrated Belgian talent playing in Holland?

[Alternative]

Change is an inevitable part of football.

All the pundits on MOTD droned on about players Fulham had lost - Zamora, Johnson, Dempsey, Dembele and Murphy.

Well Zamora is gone a good while and not missed by most. We are well rid of Johnson too.

The two Dems and Murphy must have been anticipated and plans put in place. How effective the plans are remains to be seen - but Dempsey was not missed in the Norwich game.

I was at Old Trafford and have never seen Dembele play better. However, I also remember, in earlier days, he used to flatter to deceive, overelaborating and losing the ball or missing the chance. Whether he is the finished article now, I do not know.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

It is very easy to blame the Board, the negotiators or not having plan B. But Jol said there was money, we got in Berbatov and we were trying to get Boateng before knowing that Dembele would leave.

Probably half the people who we were linked with we had no interest in. Players move or don't move for their own reasons. Why would Adam move to Stoke? Very strange. The only thing I can think of is that he can continue living where he is and commute. Why would Vadis go to Everton? Fellaini? Why would Boateng come back to us for the third time I think but not finally sign? I have no idea.

Other clubs have lost big players and not got who they were after. We have gained  Berbatov, probably the biggest capture ever when we have been in the top flight. Yes, losing Dembele is a significant blow, particularly so late in the window and it is likely to take some rethinking to adjust the formation at least until Jnuary. But Jol is the man to do it.

The action I most hope for now the window is closed is that we offer Jol a long term contract.