Revealed: How Liverpool's pursuit of Dempsey prompted his unprecedented exile

[YankeeJim]

Well, a bit of silly anger on my part prompted a fine conversation. I generally have tried not to trade one snarky remark for another as it simply drops one to that level and as one can see, did nothing to convince Reindeer of anything. I did find it interesting that so many felt the same as I did. I also can understand why our English fans feel that foreign fans will leave once "their" guys move on. However, I don't hear that directed towards our Norway fans or any other for that matter. Our English friends should understand that in order for an American to enjoy top flight football, we have to go overseas. You lot have the distinct advantage of speaking a simi understanable version of 'merikan. Well, except for NoGoodBoy.

So, I extend my apology to Reindeer as I should have explained my position better and thanks for the PM's of support.

COME ON YOU WHITES

[HatterDon]

This thread is the best argument for the "ignore button" I've seen on here in a long while.

And, for possibly the first time ever, I'm in agreement with EWM -- not about the socks, mind you, but about the thread warning.

[MJG]

We could have a stickie thread at the top "for those still interested in discussing Dempsey" and everyone else can move on...

I did think about this earlier but on reflection it would cause even more problems, why should someone who did what he did get his own section on this site. So no to its own stickie.

[Me-ate-Live, innit??]

 In truth,  I am not sure why you are apologising Jimbo, Just put on your Demon shirt  and carry on regardless  :54:

Some of the remarks bring to mind the old, old  board .................William Bloke or  Cupid Stunt  anyone ????

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

There is an obvious disconnect between the US supporters and UK (and the rest of the world) supporters. The Dempsey situation just literally just provided a battleground to see how many scalps one can claim. I can understand that one side may feel bad that a certain section of supporters may not be fans of the club but of certain players but I don't see why people would have a shot but it does reveal a deep seated dislike for the US fanbase of the club. On the occasion, I do go to the Cottage. I wear my Dempsey shirt and I try to remain under the radar. Don't talk much, have a nice drink and meal at a local pub then go to the stadium and watch the match. Support the club by myself.

The best solution here is to no longer sign any Americans as a result, no Americans will become a supporter. Then let the current ones die off. :dft012:

This assumes that all US supporters are all alike and all UK supporters are alike and the two groups are antagonistic. There is clearly a spectrum of supporters in both camps. The majority in both camps will be silent or quiet. We tend to remember the most extreme examples.

The problems seem to have arisen when the extreme Dempsey fan-boys said something like "Dempsey is the best player Fulham have ever had", "Dempsey is an honourable man" or "the truth will come out", particularly in a context that is provocative, or when they started blaming Jol or MAF for the whole situation. That sort of stuff is bound to create a reaction. And then those fan-boys saying that the reaction is just because he is/we are American just pours petrol on the flames.

It is perfectly fine to be a fan of an individual player, home or overseas, but if you are then you have to try to be realistic about the quality of the player. There were similar issues on the old Cottage Corner when Halliche arrived. Most people on the message board are fans of the club and have and will be here through all the comings and goings of individual players. Most find excessive love of one player to the point of denigrating the club whatever the player does irritating if not offensive.

1. I never assumed that all supporters on either side of the Atlantic is the same but there it's not like we're all brothers in arms here. It's like a gathering and you keep one at arms length. To be fair, I don't have any connection with Fulham fans and I don't consider any other Fulham supporter a friend. That's because I'm just now hanging around the general fanbase and not necessarily supporting the team in total solitude like I've done for years. However, I tend to be more sympathetic towards the US support because as an American, I do understand the tightrope that US supporters walk. If you don't like the American supporters then that is perfectly fine because at the end of the day, I support the club and not necessarily the supporters.

You are wrong in the respect that everyone is remembered including the extreme. Everybody on this forum I'm sure has in their mind what side of the "battle" that each member is on. Some may not engage but I'm sure there are sympathizers like myself.

2. The problems arise when certain people take things out of context and people are actually willing to not participate in a witch hunt. The supposed "Dempsey Defense League" can't be true if the members aren't defending. You can't defend unless you (in this case Dempsey) was attacked first. Both parties were wrong and it was the best option to wait and see. Now, Dempsey has always been crapped on (He dives too much, he always looks disinterested, takes too many wild shots etc..). That's the nature of the beast but it was held back a little due to his contributions to the club. Now, all bets are off because of his situation.

3. It's perfectly fine to be a fan of a player in silence. However, instead of trying to make people realistic which I think people are doing for the most part. Those who aren't really can't be helped. I suggest you should try not to belittle him. Now, I believe people really believed he is a crappy player and he was a very lucky boy but to be honest. If he wasn't 29 or an American then the £6m received for him could have easily become at least £10m that he's truly worth when it comes to assessing his talents and abilities.

Now, I would perhaps be more forgiving of the criticism as I would believe it's not entirely unfounded if it was last summer. He showed he has really refined his game last season. You're really stretching the support for him. I do believe he has been a top 5 PL era player for Fulham. Very influential player if nothing else and Fulham will be a bottom half team this year, I reckon. If nothing else because the competition has gotten better overall. I hope he does great things for Tottenham, if nothing else to enrage certain people on this board. Dembele (who people are very quick to glorify) heaped praise on Dempsey as a teammate again just like Murphy did post Chelsea match. I would trust their opinion of teammates than any of us.

Your post demonstrates where you are coming from and why we get interminable threads like this.

And you do what I think is a typical low trick of knocking another player, in this case Dembele, to bolster your  argument.

[Yellow Jacket]

There is an obvious disconnect between the US supporters and UK (and the rest of the world) supporters. The Dempsey situation just literally just provided a battleground to see how many scalps one can claim. I can understand that one side may feel bad that a certain section of supporters may not be fans of the club but of certain players but I don't see why people would have a shot but it does reveal a deep seated dislike for the US fanbase of the club. On the occasion, I do go to the Cottage. I wear my Dempsey shirt and I try to remain under the radar. Don't talk much, have a nice drink and meal at a local pub then go to the stadium and watch the match. Support the club by myself.

The best solution here is to no longer sign any Americans as a result, no Americans will become a supporter. Then let the current ones die off. :dft012:

This assumes that all US supporters are all alike and all UK supporters are alike and the two groups are antagonistic. There is clearly a spectrum of supporters in both camps. The majority in both camps will be silent or quiet. We tend to remember the most extreme examples.

The problems seem to have arisen when the extreme Dempsey fan-boys said something like "Dempsey is the best player Fulham have ever had", "Dempsey is an honourable man" or "the truth will come out", particularly in a context that is provocative, or when they started blaming Jol or MAF for the whole situation. That sort of stuff is bound to create a reaction. And then those fan-boys saying that the reaction is just because he is/we are American just pours petrol on the flames.

It is perfectly fine to be a fan of an individual player, home or overseas, but if you are then you have to try to be realistic about the quality of the player. There were similar issues on the old Cottage Corner when Halliche arrived. Most people on the message board are fans of the club and have and will be here through all the comings and goings of individual players. Most find excessive love of one player to the point of denigrating the club whatever the player does irritating if not offensive.

1. I never assumed that all supporters on either side of the Atlantic is the same but there it's not like we're all brothers in arms here. It's like a gathering and you keep one at arms length. To be fair, I don't have any connection with Fulham fans and I don't consider any other Fulham supporter a friend. That's because I'm just now hanging around the general fanbase and not necessarily supporting the team in total solitude like I've done for years. However, I tend to be more sympathetic towards the US support because as an American, I do understand the tightrope that US supporters walk. If you don't like the American supporters then that is perfectly fine because at the end of the day, I support the club and not necessarily the supporters.

You are wrong in the respect that everyone is remembered including the extreme. Everybody on this forum I'm sure has in their mind what side of the "battle" that each member is on. Some may not engage but I'm sure there are sympathizers like myself.

2. The problems arise when certain people take things out of context and people are actually willing to not participate in a witch hunt. The supposed "Dempsey Defense League" can't be true if the members aren't defending. You can't defend unless you (in this case Dempsey) was attacked first. Both parties were wrong and it was the best option to wait and see. Now, Dempsey has always been crapped on (He dives too much, he always looks disinterested, takes too many wild shots etc..). That's the nature of the beast but it was held back a little due to his contributions to the club. Now, all bets are off because of his situation.

3. It's perfectly fine to be a fan of a player in silence. However, instead of trying to make people realistic which I think people are doing for the most part. Those who aren't really can't be helped. I suggest you should try not to belittle him. Now, I believe people really believed he is a crappy player and he was a very lucky boy but to be honest. If he wasn't 29 or an American then the £6m received for him could have easily become at least £10m that he's truly worth when it comes to assessing his talents and abilities.

Now, I would perhaps be more forgiving of the criticism as I would believe it's not entirely unfounded if it was last summer. He showed he has really refined his game last season. You're really stretching the support for him. I do believe he has been a top 5 PL era player for Fulham. Very influential player if nothing else and Fulham will be a bottom half team this year, I reckon. If nothing else because the competition has gotten better overall. I hope he does great things for Tottenham, if nothing else to enrage certain people on this board. Dembele (who people are very quick to glorify) heaped praise on Dempsey as a teammate again just like Murphy did post Chelsea match. I would trust their opinion of teammates than any of us.

Your post demonstrates where you are coming from and why we get interminable threads like this.

And you do what I think is a typical low trick of knocking another player, in this case Dembele, to bolster your  argument.

Where did I knock Dembele? I said that the Fulham faithful here are very quick to glorify him. Am I wrong? People will sing on the rooftops about Dembele and believe that he can carry a mountain while running a marathon. He's a good developing player but I'm not going to go on and wax lyrical about him. He was a good developing player at the club and his best years won't be at Fulham.

[YankeeJim]

In truth,  I am not sure why you are apologising Jimbo, Just put on your Demon shirt  and carry on regardless  :54:

Some of the remarks bring to mind the old, old  board .................William Bloke or  Cupid Stunt  anyone ????

Just trying to bring peace to the home front. No point in continuing a pointless argument and Reindeer has as much right to be here as I do. As to the old board, good riddence. Perhaps a few recent refugees from CC brought some of that back. Demon shirt indeed! You know I am just a lovable little fuzzball.  :014:

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

There is an obvious disconnect between the US supporters and UK (and the rest of the world) supporters. The Dempsey situation just literally just provided a battleground to see how many scalps one can claim. I can understand that one side may feel bad that a certain section of supporters may not be fans of the club but of certain players but I don't see why people would have a shot but it does reveal a deep seated dislike for the US fanbase of the club. On the occasion, I do go to the Cottage. I wear my Dempsey shirt and I try to remain under the radar. Don't talk much, have a nice drink and meal at a local pub then go to the stadium and watch the match. Support the club by myself.

The best solution here is to no longer sign any Americans as a result, no Americans will become a supporter. Then let the current ones die off. :dft012:

This assumes that all US supporters are all alike and all UK supporters are alike and the two groups are antagonistic. There is clearly a spectrum of supporters in both camps. The majority in both camps will be silent or quiet. We tend to remember the most extreme examples.

The problems seem to have arisen when the extreme Dempsey fan-boys said something like "Dempsey is the best player Fulham have ever had", "Dempsey is an honourable man" or "the truth will come out", particularly in a context that is provocative, or when they started blaming Jol or MAF for the whole situation. That sort of stuff is bound to create a reaction. And then those fan-boys saying that the reaction is just because he is/we are American just pours petrol on the flames.

It is perfectly fine to be a fan of an individual player, home or overseas, but if you are then you have to try to be realistic about the quality of the player. There were similar issues on the old Cottage Corner when Halliche arrived. Most people on the message board are fans of the club and have and will be here through all the comings and goings of individual players. Most find excessive love of one player to the point of denigrating the club whatever the player does irritating if not offensive.

1. I never assumed that all supporters on either side of the Atlantic is the same but there it's not like we're all brothers in arms here. It's like a gathering and you keep one at arms length. To be fair, I don't have any connection with Fulham fans and I don't consider any other Fulham supporter a friend. That's because I'm just now hanging around the general fanbase and not necessarily supporting the team in total solitude like I've done for years. However, I tend to be more sympathetic towards the US support because as an American, I do understand the tightrope that US supporters walk. If you don't like the American supporters then that is perfectly fine because at the end of the day, I support the club and not necessarily the supporters.

You are wrong in the respect that everyone is remembered including the extreme. Everybody on this forum I'm sure has in their mind what side of the "battle" that each member is on. Some may not engage but I'm sure there are sympathizers like myself.

2. The problems arise when certain people take things out of context and people are actually willing to not participate in a witch hunt. The supposed "Dempsey Defense League" can't be true if the members aren't defending. You can't defend unless you (in this case Dempsey) was attacked first. Both parties were wrong and it was the best option to wait and see. Now, Dempsey has always been crapped on (He dives too much, he always looks disinterested, takes too many wild shots etc..). That's the nature of the beast but it was held back a little due to his contributions to the club. Now, all bets are off because of his situation.

3. It's perfectly fine to be a fan of a player in silence. However, instead of trying to make people realistic which I think people are doing for the most part. Those who aren't really can't be helped. I suggest you should try not to belittle him. Now, I believe people really believed he is a crappy player and he was a very lucky boy but to be honest. If he wasn't 29 or an American then the £6m received for him could have easily become at least £10m that he's truly worth when it comes to assessing his talents and abilities.

Now, I would perhaps be more forgiving of the criticism as I would believe it's not entirely unfounded if it was last summer. He showed he has really refined his game last season. You're really stretching the support for him. I do believe he has been a top 5 PL era player for Fulham. Very influential player if nothing else and Fulham will be a bottom half team this year, I reckon. If nothing else because the competition has gotten better overall. I hope he does great things for Tottenham, if nothing else to enrage certain people on this board. Dembele (who people are very quick to glorify) heaped praise on Dempsey as a teammate again just like Murphy did post Chelsea match. I would trust their opinion of teammates than any of us.

Your post demonstrates where you are coming from and why we get interminable threads like this.

And you do what I think is a typical low trick of knocking another player, in this case Dembele, to bolster your  argument.

Where did I knock Dembele? I said that the Fulham faithful here are very quick to glorify him. Am I wrong? People will sing on the rooftops about Dembele and believe that he can carry a mountain while running a marathon. He's a good developing player but I'm not going to go on and wax lyrical about him. He was a good developing player at the club and his best years won't be at Fulham.

You did by implying, which you have now confirmed in your new post, that the praise for Dembele was premature and excessive in comparison to that for Dempsey (who you think most people believed was crappy).

[Yellow Jacket]

There is an obvious disconnect between the US supporters and UK (and the rest of the world) supporters. The Dempsey situation just literally just provided a battleground to see how many scalps one can claim. I can understand that one side may feel bad that a certain section of supporters may not be fans of the club but of certain players but I don't see why people would have a shot but it does reveal a deep seated dislike for the US fanbase of the club. On the occasion, I do go to the Cottage. I wear my Dempsey shirt and I try to remain under the radar. Don't talk much, have a nice drink and meal at a local pub then go to the stadium and watch the match. Support the club by myself.

The best solution here is to no longer sign any Americans as a result, no Americans will become a supporter. Then let the current ones die off. :dft012:

This assumes that all US supporters are all alike and all UK supporters are alike and the two groups are antagonistic. There is clearly a spectrum of supporters in both camps. The majority in both camps will be silent or quiet. We tend to remember the most extreme examples.

The problems seem to have arisen when the extreme Dempsey fan-boys said something like "Dempsey is the best player Fulham have ever had", "Dempsey is an honourable man" or "the truth will come out", particularly in a context that is provocative, or when they started blaming Jol or MAF for the whole situation. That sort of stuff is bound to create a reaction. And then those fan-boys saying that the reaction is just because he is/we are American just pours petrol on the flames.

It is perfectly fine to be a fan of an individual player, home or overseas, but if you are then you have to try to be realistic about the quality of the player. There were similar issues on the old Cottage Corner when Halliche arrived. Most people on the message board are fans of the club and have and will be here through all the comings and goings of individual players. Most find excessive love of one player to the point of denigrating the club whatever the player does irritating if not offensive.

1. I never assumed that all supporters on either side of the Atlantic is the same but there it's not like we're all brothers in arms here. It's like a gathering and you keep one at arms length. To be fair, I don't have any connection with Fulham fans and I don't consider any other Fulham supporter a friend. That's because I'm just now hanging around the general fanbase and not necessarily supporting the team in total solitude like I've done for years. However, I tend to be more sympathetic towards the US support because as an American, I do understand the tightrope that US supporters walk. If you don't like the American supporters then that is perfectly fine because at the end of the day, I support the club and not necessarily the supporters.

You are wrong in the respect that everyone is remembered including the extreme. Everybody on this forum I'm sure has in their mind what side of the "battle" that each member is on. Some may not engage but I'm sure there are sympathizers like myself.

2. The problems arise when certain people take things out of context and people are actually willing to not participate in a witch hunt. The supposed "Dempsey Defense League" can't be true if the members aren't defending. You can't defend unless you (in this case Dempsey) was attacked first. Both parties were wrong and it was the best option to wait and see. Now, Dempsey has always been crapped on (He dives too much, he always looks disinterested, takes too many wild shots etc..). That's the nature of the beast but it was held back a little due to his contributions to the club. Now, all bets are off because of his situation.

3. It's perfectly fine to be a fan of a player in silence. However, instead of trying to make people realistic which I think people are doing for the most part. Those who aren't really can't be helped. I suggest you should try not to belittle him. Now, I believe people really believed he is a crappy player and he was a very lucky boy but to be honest. If he wasn't 29 or an American then the £6m received for him could have easily become at least £10m that he's truly worth when it comes to assessing his talents and abilities.

Now, I would perhaps be more forgiving of the criticism as I would believe it's not entirely unfounded if it was last summer. He showed he has really refined his game last season. You're really stretching the support for him. I do believe he has been a top 5 PL era player for Fulham. Very influential player if nothing else and Fulham will be a bottom half team this year, I reckon. If nothing else because the competition has gotten better overall. I hope he does great things for Tottenham, if nothing else to enrage certain people on this board. Dembele (who people are very quick to glorify) heaped praise on Dempsey as a teammate again just like Murphy did post Chelsea match. I would trust their opinion of teammates than any of us.

Your post demonstrates where you are coming from and why we get interminable threads like this.

And you do what I think is a typical low trick of knocking another player, in this case Dembele, to bolster your  argument.

Where did I knock Dembele? I said that the Fulham faithful here are very quick to glorify him. Am I wrong? People will sing on the rooftops about Dembele and believe that he can carry a mountain while running a marathon. He's a good developing player but I'm not going to go on and wax lyrical about him. He was a good developing player at the club and his best years won't be at Fulham.

You did by implying, which you have now confirmed in your new post, that the praise for Dembele was premature and excessive in comparison to that for Dempsey (who you think most people believed was crappy).

You're reading too much into it. I never said it was premature. I was saying that people are quick to praise him. If you ask a Fulham fan about Dembele. You would quickly hear praise about him as a player. In fact, I never compared him to Dempsey at all let alone in that respect. I mentioned Dembele because he is obviously pleased about Dempsey joining him at Tottenham that is all.

If a player like Dembele who is loved by Fulham fans thinks highly of him as a player. It's funny that the fans who have seen Dempsey's entire career at Fulham unlike Dembele don't rate him as a great player. It's confusing because he is a player who wasn't as naturally gifted but worked his tail off to get where he is. The fact that he scored 17 goals in a PL season shocked many of the fans. Thank goodness the fans don't determine how far he gets in his career because he wouldn't even make it in the PL if it was up to the fans.

[MasterHaynes]

Hi Mods,

I usually hate when threads are locked for a little heated debate, but this is no longer a debate and much more of a slaging match
(He Said/She said/ I Didn't Say/ Why did you say etc). This is one is actually ripe for a locking. If you two have such issue with one another make it a personal chat and try and work things out. We are all in the same boat, just different sides of the pond.  :protest card:

Hear, Hear

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

:
:
:

You're reading too much into it. I never said it was premature. I was saying that people are quick to praise him. If you ask a Fulham fan about Dembele. You would quickly hear praise about him as a player. In fact, I never compared him to Dempsey at all let alone in that respect. I mentioned Dembele because he is obviously pleased about Dempsey joining him at Tottenham that is all.

If a player like Dembele who is loved by Fulham fans thinks highly of him as a player. It's funny that the fans who have seen Dempsey's entire career at Fulham unlike Dembele don't rate him as a great player. It's confusing because he is a player who wasn't as naturally gifted but worked his tail off to get where he is. The fact that he scored 17 goals in a PL season shocked many of the fans. Thank goodness the fans don't determine how far he gets in his career because he wouldn't even make it in the PL if it was up to the fans.

I give up.

Yes, we fans have been holding Dempsey back for years and it's only because he is an American.  :dft009:

[YankeeJim]

:
:
:

You're reading too much into it. I never said it was premature. I was saying that people are quick to praise him. If you ask a Fulham fan about Dembele. You would quickly hear praise about him as a player. In fact, I never compared him to Dempsey at all let alone in that respect. I mentioned Dembele because he is obviously pleased about Dempsey joining him at Tottenham that is all.

If a player like Dembele who is loved by Fulham fans thinks highly of him as a player. It's funny that the fans who have seen Dempsey's entire career at Fulham unlike Dembele don't rate him as a great player. It's confusing because he is a player who wasn't as naturally gifted but worked his tail off to get where he is. The fact that he scored 17 goals in a PL season shocked many of the fans. Thank goodness the fans don't determine how far he gets in his career because he wouldn't even make it in the PL if it was up to the fans.

I give up.

Yes, we fans have been holding Dempsey back for years and it's only because he is an American.  :dft009:
[/quote]

Finally, the situation is settled.  089.gif

[Yellow Jacket]

You never started but if you wanted to believe that then that's fine but I never even implied that.

[mccscratch]

'Regarded as a human dynamo'? What planet are these yanks on? Ridiculous.

Do you know what a Dynamo is?

Also... the writer of the story Wayne Vesey is indeed English... and full of crap as well... he makes up story after story.

[mccscratch]

Speaking about the allegation that he had refused to play for the Cottagers in order to push a move through, he said: "I did not refuse to play. There were some things that were said that were not true."

[HatterDon]

I am REALLY enjoying that "ignore button."  yee-haw! yee-haw!

[RidgeRider]

It's getting circular again. Surely enough has been said on the subject of the ex-Fulham player in question?

[Yellow Jacket]

You might as well let it stay open so people can spew what they wish about Dempsey. I wouldn't lock it because like you said, the debate will continue elsewhere. Eventually, people will get bored and the thread will descend into the abyss.

[HatterDon]

The Abyss was a brilliant Sci Fi movie a few years back, at least I thought so. Any other classics brought to mind by this thread?

Hatter "hijackingbeforeitcrashes, isit" Don

[Rupert]

I was busy over the weekend, went to see a couple of friends on Saturday, then another couple on Sunday, lots of travelling, lots of alcohol, so no time to browse this board, plus the supervisor at work is back from throwing a sickie, so no access there either, so I've missed out on all this until I logged on this evening.

It has been a very entertaining ten minutes, catching up.

078.gif