NFR: This "Fracking" issue...

[Rupert]

All I have heard on the radio today is people talking about fracking, which apparantly is some sort of ecologically dubious method of getting gas out of shale, or something like that, but it should drive down the energy prices some time in the next fifty years.

Now, before the usual suspect tree-huggers come out of their burrows to wail about the problems this will cause (you all know who you are), I am not here to talk about whether this is morally right or wrong or to wonder if this is what the Mayans knew about four hundred years ago.

The point is, as a fan of both the original series of Battlestar Galactica and, for our younger readers, the superb, recent "re-imagining" of the story, "fracking" is a word in quite heavy use in the show, used instead of our "fecking" (as the Irish pronounce it).
I'm sorry, but when Peter Allen or whoever comes onto Radio Five Live and talks about "fracking" and it clearly is meant to be an important topic, I just can't take it seriously.

Can they think up a different word, please?

[jarv]

Yes, odd word. In fact, so odd I looked it up in my websters 4th edition dictionary (1999)and it doesn't exist. fractal...irregular surface and fracas...smash, blend or break (and I always thought it was a fight, but the dictionary did add that bit). I guess it is close enough.

[btings]

The real term is hydraulic fracturing, iirc.

[CH FFC]

I know that what I am about to add was not the intention of your post, but here it goes!

Fracking has been around for a lot longer than people realize, longer than Battlestar Galatica even.
It present many danagers, and before you call me a "Tree hugger" let me elaborate.
The water that is used during the process (and there are literally millions of gallons for a single site), become highly contaminated during the process.  Essentially that same water seeps into the drinking water, as well as local rivers, tributaries and the like. In some cases it is extremely toxic, and I have seen people that were able to actually light it on fire.  Imagine going to the tap and igniting the water coming out. This is what can happen, no exageration!

So, on a side note it does indeed provide access to resources that we could not normally reach, but at what cost?  If there wasn't so much money to be made from it, it wouldn't be a problem.

Do you want to drink some contaminated water?  I sure as hell don't!

[Peabody]

The trouble is , to use Ruperts phrase "the tree hugging solutions" are not efficient enough to give us the energy we need. Certainly wind farms give a very small return and are expensive. On present technology, only coal, nuclear or fracking can give us what we need. So until someone very clever invents a viable alternative, we either pay over the top for foreign gas imports or go along with this potentialy dangerous nuclear and fracking. Sorry to turn your point serious Rupert.

[YankeeJim]

Too many of the modern day enviromentalists are of the Chicken Little type. They would prefer that oil & gas exploration be left to the third world since if they can't see it, it doesn't pollute. Would be better to drill where the local government has some decently enforced regulations. They prefer servitude to our friends in the middle east rather than turning a buck ourselves.

That being said, exactly how does adding water to chemicals that are already in the ground cause additional pollution? Wouldn't it merely dilute it?

Fracking in the US is mostly being done in the state of North Dakota. During this never ending recession in this country, with official unemployment near 8% and the actual double that, the unemployment in North Dakota is less then 3%. They have well paying jobs going begging. Course, North Dakota is a wide expanse of frozen, flat nothing, although, they make the best sausage in the US. Where's Fat Freddy when you need him?

[NogoodBoyo]

Interesting thread this one. 
YankeeJ, I always thought you were dead right on everything left behind, but the map on the link below shows that fracking is a lot more prevalent in larger swathes of the country than you say.  The Marcellus Shale field around the Appallachians is going to be gybloodynormous.
I have been known to hug a tree on occasion, but I also have taken down more than my fair share.  There are inherent dangers with this method of gas and oil extraction but I believe the positives outweigh the negatives in terms of preventing the end of the world as we know it (burst into song point).  Undoubtedly it will need strong oversight as we know the energy companies will cut corners.
The biggest benefit (or concern depending on which side of the trench you sit) is that Uncle Sam will very soon become the biggest energy producer in the world.  Negotiate that Amadinnerjean.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://earthjustice.org/sites/default/files/feature_expanded/2011/frackmap_png_14404.png&imgrefurl=http://earthjustice.org/features/campaigns/fracking-across-the-united-states&h=517&w=750&sz=65&tbnid=1Y7iSb3rCIyDoM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=125&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmap%2Bof%2Bfracking%2Bsites%2Bin%2BUSA%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=map+of+fracking+sites+in+USA&usg=__CYqOxieYtIcIbLoDDknpK-IGJi8=&docid=Rm25gbF4I45sGM&sa=X&ei=MzDKUJmBF7C10AHfioDoAQ&ved=0CDcQ9QEwAQ&dur=3854
Nogood "fracking with that, isit" Boyo

[NogoodBoyo]

I just looked at the map.  Lots of fraccidents next door in Pennsylvania, itis.
Nogood "fraccidents, movement of gas people, isit" Boyo

[HatterDon]

I hate to disagree with my friend YJ, but there's fracking going on in about 15 or 20 states. It's also used to release natural gas [restrain yourself, Rupert]. There's a HUGE economic boom going on southeast of here -- Google "Eagle Ford Shale" if you're interested.

There's always a battle going on between environmentalists to want to preserve/protect, and industrialists who want to develop/exploit. The multi-generation "locals" want the latter to keep their kids nearby and increase the quality of their lives.

The thing is that we're not talking strip-mining and an aesthetic loss of scenic vistas. We ARE talking polluted ground water and, with most of the middle of the country in a severe prolonged drought, we need all the clean water we can get.

I have faith in my country's ability to enhance our technology such that accessing these fossil fuel resources can be done safely AND profitably. Industry needs environmentalists to keep them on their toes.

I just wish we weren't expending so much time and effort trying to polish up 19th century fuels and join our European, South American, and Chinese neighbors in exploiting 21st century solutions to energy shortages. Of course, I want to see Simon Davies on the pitch, so what do I know.

[CanadianCottager]

Don't know a terrible amount on the topic, I'm neither an economist nor a geologist, but it has been known to cause seismic activity out west in British Columbia, though then again, B.C. is right on the Pacific fault lines, I'm not sure if there would be nearly as much of a risk in the less seismically active Britain. My problem with fracking is mostly though that improving our fossil fuel exploitation capacity is great in the short term, in the long term we're going to have to start supplementing our resources more and more with alternatives and I'd rather we start getting the techniques right now while it's not critical then a generation down the line when energy tensions are going to get even more heated (no pun intended).

[CH FFC]

A couple of things to mention.....Fracking is not "American", it is and has been done all over the world.
Also, the chemicals that I mentioned were mainly added during the process, not those which are already found in the ground....although it is not good to mix your drinking water with your Fosil fuels.
Fracking is also not only done with shale, it just so happens that not to long ago they have been able to refine these shale deposits found into Oil and then petrol.
Natural gas, shale, and oil deposits are all products fracking can be used for.

Fracking is just the method of breaking up rocks to get to what is under it, however it is miserably regulated.  Especially in America, where if I do remember right there are almost zero regulations regarding this.

[YankeeJim]

Interesting thread this one. 
YankeeJ, I always thought you were dead right on everything left behind, but the map on the link below shows that fracking is a lot more prevalent in larger swathes of the country than you say.  The Marcellus Shale field around the Appallachians is going to be gybloodynormous.
I have been known to hug a tree on occasion, but I also have taken down more than my fair share.  There are inherent dangers with this method of gas and oil extraction but I believe the positives outweigh the negatives in terms of preventing the end of the world as we know it (burst into song point).  Undoubtedly it will need strong oversight as we know the energy companies will cut corners.
The biggest benefit (or concern depending on which side of the trench you sit) is that Uncle Sam will very soon become the biggest energy producer in the world.  Negotiate that Amadinnerjean.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://earthjustice.org/sites/default/files/feature_expanded/2011/frackmap_png_14404.png&imgrefurl=http://earthjustice.org/features/campaigns/fracking-across-the-united-states&h=517&w=750&sz=65&tbnid=1Y7iSb3rCIyDoM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=125&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmap%2Bof%2Bfracking%2Bsites%2Bin%2BUSA%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=map+of+fracking+sites+in+USA&usg=__CYqOxieYtIcIbLoDDknpK-IGJi8=&docid=Rm25gbF4I45sGM&sa=X&ei=MzDKUJmBF7C10AHfioDoAQ&ved=0CDcQ9QEwAQ&dur=3854
Nogood "fracking with that, isit" Boyo

Well, I stand corrected. I've read a bit lately about the boom in North Dakota and the pipe line Obama killed from the Canadian fields to Gulf ports. I guess I made assumptions. Anyway, the part about job growth in ND is accurate. I seem to remember reading that fracking is what made the new North Dakota and Canadian fields viable.

I too have been know to hug a tree. Nature is a beautiful gift we all have. With all due repect to our London friends, I can't see how anyone lives in a major city. Going into LA for me is next to a root canal. Just my opinion, mind you. What I do object to is when environmental issues are used as a political club to promote income redistibution.

From the map, I noticed that fracking is taking place all across Lake Michigan, or is the brown areas just the pool of oil?

Oh, Donny, be sure that sometime a few months hence, Digger will be off the bench to score the winner that puts us into the Europa.

[YankeeJim]

And again OH, perhaps all the resourses that fracking provides will help us flip the bird to Mahmoud Imadinnerjacket and his mullah thugs.

[Shredhead]

Fracking will (probably) be better regulated in Europe than the US which is why many experts say its unlikely to bring down the cost of power much. The risk of earthquakes and contaminated groundwater is too great to ignore.

The root cause of this is that we are all using a lot more energy than we used to and that trend is predicted to continue. We need increasing supplies of energy to produce electricity that are a mixture of reliable (e.g. nuclear, coal), can be switched on and turned off quick to meet sudden demands (e.g. gas), low carbon (e.g. wind and other renewables, nuclear) and not too much reliant on foreign countries (e.g. renewables, shale gas).

Since 2003 my annual electricity usage has doubled and I'm an eco-fascist of the first order. Its because we're using loads more laptops, bigger tellies, faster kettles, mobile phones and other gadgets on stand-by and recharging, halogen lamps (which burn money) etc etc. One of the biggest issues in this is that not as much attention or money is being put into improving energy efficiency of products or homes.

[Lighthouse]

As I sit in my underground bunker from B&Q. Who knew the handle was supposed to go on the inside? The fact remains that putting windmills up and burning rubbish to make power and solar energy are all very poor at doing what they are supposed to do. Economically they make no sense. Especially when a company can make money from grants by putting up big windmills and not using them to their full capacity. Little capacity means bigger grants.

Building lots of Nuclear thingys make economic sense but scary  things happen. Fracking makes sense but water and disturbance in lil ol Britain means we shake a bit when the ground starts to crumble. Selling Britain from the bottom up. The real answer is to sit in a bunker surrounded by baked bean tins and wait for the end of the World. Something to open the tins and a handle on the inside of the bunker may be a good idea. Learn from my mistakes. Now that we all fracking mad I feel the Earth move. Could be because I have posted Ola Jordan's picture on Facebook.