Big, big January for Martin Jol

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

What a miserable anti-Jol rant.

When we have had our best team available we have played some really attractive and effective football. The end of Murphy's career at the top level, the loss of Dembele and the injuries to Ruiz, Diarra and Kacaniklic have made life difficult and more work is needed on that central misfield.

You also seem to conveniently forget that it was Jol who moved Dembele from a talented but not wildly effective attacking midfielder to become the defensive central midfield worth the £15m release fee and it was Jol who brought us Berbatov to replace Dempsey.

"Berbatov to replace Dempsey." What a load of absolute clueless waffle, including the bit about Berbatov replacing Dempsey. My god!

You are right, it was slack to say`replacement'.

Losing a want-away, misery who let himself be tapped up and threw a wobbly and gaining a world class player who could be playing for a Champions League team deserves a better choice of words.

[Admin]

What a miserable anti-Jol rant.

When we have had our best team available we have played some really attractive and effective football. The end of Murphy's career at the top level, the loss of Dembele and the injuries to Ruiz, Diarra and Kacaniklic have made life difficult and more work is needed on that central misfield.

You also seem to conveniently forget that it was Jol who moved Dembele from a talented but not wildly effective attacking midfielder to become the defensive central midfield worth the £15m release fee and it was Jol who brought us Berbatov to replace Dempsey.

"Berbatov to replace Dempsey." What a load of absolute clueless waffle, including the bit about Berbatov replacing Dempsey. My god!

Funny how all the mods try and discourage jumping all over someone's opinion, like you just demonstrated. Double standards much?

I think you understand what Apprentice to the Maestro was getting at. Berbatov obviously wasn't a like for like replacement for Dempsey (position, playstyle etc) but he was a replacement for Dempsey's goals. Berbatov has five goals so far this season and at the same stage last year, Dempsey also had five. Yes, we never invested into the left flank, which I think is our weakest link apart from our defence, but we did make up for the goals lost.

It's funny how all the mods try and discourage jumping all over someone's opinion when you're clearly defending another poster who just jumped all over mine stating it to be a miserable anti-Jol rant? Do me a favour please EJL, don't come here trying to start a war and at the same time try not to use double standards. 

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

What a miserable anti-Jol rant.

When we have had our best team available we have played some really attractive and effective football. The end of Murphy's career at the top level, the loss of Dembele and the injuries to Ruiz, Diarra and Kacaniklic have made life difficult and more work is needed on that central misfield.

You also seem to conveniently forget that it was Jol who moved Dembele from a talented but not wildly effective attacking midfielder to become the defensive central midfield worth the £15m release fee and it was Jol who brought us Berbatov to replace Dempsey.

"Berbatov to replace Dempsey." What a load of absolute clueless waffle, including the bit about Berbatov replacing Dempsey. My god!

Funny how all the mods try and discourage jumping all over someone's opinion, like you just demonstrated. Double standards much?

I think you understand what Apprentice to the Maestro was getting at. Berbatov obviously wasn't a like for like replacement for Dempsey (position, playstyle etc) but he was a replacement for Dempsey's goals. Berbatov has five goals so far this season and at the same stage last year, Dempsey also had five. Yes, we never invested into the left flank, which I think is our weakest link apart from our defence, but we did make up for the goals lost.

It's funny how all the mods try and discourage jumping all over someone's opinion when you're clearly defending another poster who just jumped all over mine stating it to be a miserable anti-Jol rant? Do me a favour please EJL, don't come here trying to start a war and at the same time try not to use double standards. 

. . . but it is a miserable anti-Jol rant.

It places half the blame on him for QPR. You seem to blame him for our defensive woes when Hangeland, Schwarzer and others have made more simple mistakes than we have seen from them in the past. You blame Jol for relying on a player's word and not having a replacement lined up when we have no evidence for that. You quote Harry about Ruiz not being up to the physical side of the PL but then so is Rooney because his metatarsal also broke when someone stamped on his foot. I think Ruiz's other major injury was on international duty. And everyone else can see that Ruiz has made great adjustments to the PL and is much stronger this season.

You offer no evidence for: "Most will know that I'm not a great fan of Martin Jol, I find him to erratic and he loves change a winning formula. His love affair with certain players annoys me and I've never known a manager to get something totally wrong, when he gets it wrong. His history with falling out with players isn't great either".

And you choose to overlook Jol's obvious strengths such as his conversion of Dembele, his introduction of the young players and the purchase of Berbatov. 

[Admin]

What a miserable anti-Jol rant.

When we have had our best team available we have played some really attractive and effective football. The end of Murphy's career at the top level, the loss of Dembele and the injuries to Ruiz, Diarra and Kacaniklic have made life difficult and more work is needed on that central misfield.

You also seem to conveniently forget that it was Jol who moved Dembele from a talented but not wildly effective attacking midfielder to become the defensive central midfield worth the £15m release fee and it was Jol who brought us Berbatov to replace Dempsey.

"Berbatov to replace Dempsey." What a load of absolute clueless waffle, including the bit about Berbatov replacing Dempsey. My god!

Funny how all the mods try and discourage jumping all over someone's opinion, like you just demonstrated. Double standards much?

I think you understand what Apprentice to the Maestro was getting at. Berbatov obviously wasn't a like for like replacement for Dempsey (position, playstyle etc) but he was a replacement for Dempsey's goals. Berbatov has five goals so far this season and at the same stage last year, Dempsey also had five. Yes, we never invested into the left flank, which I think is our weakest link apart from our defence, but we did make up for the goals lost.

It's funny how all the mods try and discourage jumping all over someone's opinion when you're clearly defending another poster who just jumped all over mine stating it to be a miserable anti-Jol rant? Do me a favour please EJL, don't come here trying to start a war and at the same time try not to use double standards. 

. . . but it is a miserable anti-Jol rant.

It places half the blame on him for QPR. You seem to blame him for our defensive woes when Hangeland, Schwarzer and others have made more simple mistakes than we have seen from them in the past. You blame Jol for relying on a player's word and not having a replacement lined up when we have no evidence for that. You quote Harry about Ruiz not being up to the physical side of the PL but then so is Rooney because his metatarsal also broke when someone stamped on his foot. I think Ruiz's other major injury was on international duty. And everyone else can see that Ruiz has made great adjustments to the PL and is much stronger this season.

You offer no evidence for: "Most will know that I'm not a great fan of Martin Jol, I find him to erratic and he loves change a winning formula. His love affair with certain players annoys me and I've never known a manager to get something totally wrong, when he gets it wrong. His history with falling out with players isn't great either".

And you choose to overlook Jol's obvious strengths such as his conversion of Dembele, his introduction of the young players and the purchase of Berbatov. 

And that's my opinion, get over it. What are going to do, bully or argue the toss with me until I shut down my account just because I don't favour Jol and you do? Over my dead body.

[Edwatch_Winston_Malone]

IJWT, IJWT, IJWT, IJWT, IJWT!

[mangoputney]

All well and good arguing about what Jol has done... It's what he & the team & the board are going to do about are current free fall, non existent midfield and want away captain

I want to see progression not reminiscing

I think that's what admin is getting at

We assumed we'd be okay... Do it cheap

We are limping along and it needs sorting

[Edwatch_Winston_Malone]

All well and good arguing about what Jol has done... It's what he & the team & the board are going to do about are current free fall, non existent midfield and want away captain

I want to see progression not reminiscing

I think that's what admin is getting at

We assumed we'd be okay... Do it cheap

We are limping along and it needs sorting

I don't think we assumed we would be OK, I don't think that we were cheap.  I think we got caught napping and could not sort our problems in the short time frame available.

Those problems have been recognised from the very clousure of the last window and hopefully will be resolved early in the next window.

[EJL]

What a miserable anti-Jol rant.

When we have had our best team available we have played some really attractive and effective football. The end of Murphy's career at the top level, the loss of Dembele and the injuries to Ruiz, Diarra and Kacaniklic have made life difficult and more work is needed on that central misfield.

You also seem to conveniently forget that it was Jol who moved Dembele from a talented but not wildly effective attacking midfielder to become the defensive central midfield worth the £15m release fee and it was Jol who brought us Berbatov to replace Dempsey.

"Berbatov to replace Dempsey." What a load of absolute clueless waffle, including the bit about Berbatov replacing Dempsey. My god!

Funny how all the mods try and discourage jumping all over someone's opinion, like you just demonstrated. Double standards much?

I think you understand what Apprentice to the Maestro was getting at. Berbatov obviously wasn't a like for like replacement for Dempsey (position, playstyle etc) but he was a replacement for Dempsey's goals. Berbatov has five goals so far this season and at the same stage last year, Dempsey also had five. Yes, we never invested into the left flank, which I think is our weakest link apart from our defence, but we did make up for the goals lost.

It's funny how all the mods try and discourage jumping all over someone's opinion when you're clearly defending another poster who just jumped all over mine stating it to be a miserable anti-Jol rant? Do me a favour please EJL, don't come here trying to start a war and at the same time try not to use double standards.  

That's my point. You discourage it yet you do it yourself, in a much ruder way "absolute clueless waffle." My original post wasn't necessarily a defence of ATTM - more an elaboration (the second part).

[Admin]

What a miserable anti-Jol rant.

When we have had our best team available we have played some really attractive and effective football. The end of Murphy's career at the top level, the loss of Dembele and the injuries to Ruiz, Diarra and Kacaniklic have made life difficult and more work is needed on that central misfield.

You also seem to conveniently forget that it was Jol who moved Dembele from a talented but not wildly effective attacking midfielder to become the defensive central midfield worth the £15m release fee and it was Jol who brought us Berbatov to replace Dempsey.

"Berbatov to replace Dempsey." What a load of absolute clueless waffle, including the bit about Berbatov replacing Dempsey. My god!

Funny how all the mods try and discourage jumping all over someone's opinion, like you just demonstrated. Double standards much?

I think you understand what Apprentice to the Maestro was getting at. Berbatov obviously wasn't a like for like replacement for Dempsey (position, playstyle etc) but he was a replacement for Dempsey's goals. Berbatov has five goals so far this season and at the same stage last year, Dempsey also had five. Yes, we never invested into the left flank, which I think is our weakest link apart from our defence, but we did make up for the goals lost.

It's funny how all the mods try and discourage jumping all over someone's opinion when you're clearly defending another poster who just jumped all over mine stating it to be a miserable anti-Jol rant? Do me a favour please EJL, don't come here trying to start a war and at the same time try not to use double standards.  

That's my point. You discourage it yet you do it yourself, in a much ruder way "absolute clueless waffle." My original post wasn't necessarily a defence of ATTM - more an elaboration (the second part).

You don't have a point what so ever. I started a valid thread, you and one other have jumped on my back because I have an opinion which you don't agree with, simple.

Yes, I don't condone it, you won't find me jumping on peoples back in there threads either. If I don't agree, I'll just pass on by. However, if you're going to attack me then fine, you'll get it back full bore.

Like I said, please continue to argue the toss. As always, a constructive post will get shut down or locked because of a few minor idiots.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

What does "have a replacement lined up" mean in practice.

I assume that Dembele really did have a release clause in his contract and it was unfortunate that that clause could be triggered at any time in the window. Better if it had been limited to the earlier part of the window so that might have been bad negotiating. But not by Jol of course.

Dembele left late. I've no doubt we had targets in mind and were clearly talking to players right up until the last minute but that's when the price rises and unless we were prepared to pay what ever it took for players that weren't particularly interested in coming (as per QPR) we simply ran out of time.

We couldn't have had a Dembele quality replacement sitting patiently for weeks waiting to sign a contract on the off chance that Dembele might leave.

This exactly.

We could have panic bought a load of rubbish midfielders who would not have helped at all. We should have brought some players in but sometimes things dont come off.


We operate on a budget, we are a small team. Over the last few years, many fans have forgotten this, perhaps because we have been spoilt with the likes of Dembele, Ruiz and Berbatov.

[shnlwswlkr]

I think we're going to splash the cash on Bent, he'll be amazing for us for the rest of the season then flop next season.

[Admin]

I think we're going to splash the cash on Bent, he'll be amazing for us for the rest of the season then flop next season.

Funny you should say that, just had a text from someone saying that all roads are leading to Darren Bent at the moment. I'm not sure if this is really what we want right now as midfield seems to be a higher priority

[grandad]

Obviously losing Dembele' last minute hit us big time but why would a manager rely on a players "word" about him staying? If a player doesn't sign a new contract then surely you don't take the risk. Jol once again has to take half the blame with this and a suitable replacement should have been lined up or drafted in. Same with the Dempsey saga.

I can't help but think you are being a little selective with your memory here as well as off your aim with the thunderbolts. Dembele was sold only because Spuds stumped up the money to trigger the release clause on his contract, wasn't he? Not because his contract was about to expire.

Regardless of that, it was not Jol who decided to sell him, nor was it Jol who failed to sign a suitable replacement, nor will it be Jol who signs (or fails to sign) a replacement in January. It is our Chief Exec who makes these calls. Blame Jol for the performance on Saturday, by all means, he is the coach and his job is to get the best out of the available pool of players, but to accuse him of being responsible for the transfer policy is plainly unjust. He can suggest targets, he can influence players decision to sign, or not, but he can not go out and sign anyone himself.

+1

[Sammyffc]

especially in jols press conference when he said they will look into players who arent fitting in at there club ... all signs lead to bent . which i would be happy with . bent and berba and ruiz and a class midfielder . no worrys

[zzamora]

I think we're going to splash the cash on Bent, he'll be amazing for us for the rest of the season then flop next season.

Funny you should say that, just had a text from someone saying that all roads are leading to Darren Bent at the moment. I'm not sure if this is really what we want right now as midfield seems to be a higher priority

Look at Jol's quotes today. We're in for bent. Lets hope its a cheap deal.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I don't know that this means Bent. There are other players, particularly on the continent and wider afield such as Derek Boateng, that are also out of favour or near the end of their contract and who would be cheaper.

Let's not be too confident that we can read Jol's mind so that we are disappointed when we don't see that player arrive.  

[Bassey the warrior]

Bent signing is interesting. Changing to 4-4-2. I guess it would work as Berba likes to drop deeper and Bent likes to play off the last man. Personally I like our formation with Ruiz in but Bent has goals in him. We will need to get another creative midfielder in if that';s going to happen though. Berba for all his creativity cannot replace Ruiz.

[BillNRoc]

Look, friends, we won't see Ruiz or Diarra suited up for FFC until February, provided they're fit by then. I'm not a Darren Bent fan, but bringing in yet another striker without improving the team's skill and imagination in the midfield is likely to leave us with two strikers moping about wishing for better service and a place in the bottom three. And bringing in players from the continent rarely has much immediate effect, they take months to adjust to BPL style play.

I trust by now everyone agrees that Roda and Richardson are not the answer, that the promise of exciting offensive football is gone by the boards unless Ruiz actually gets a run of games and delivers. More likely, we'll struggle to finish 15th. I've been watching a lot of games on TV lately, and on current form we fit better at the bottom than in the middle. Other teams (e.g., QPR) are recognizing how to play us better than we recognize how to play them.

[MJG]

Look, friends, we won't see Ruiz or Diarra suited up for FFC until February, provided they're fit by then. I'm not a Darren Bent fan, but bringing in yet another striker without improving the team's skill and imagination in the midfield is likely to leave us with two strikers moping about wishing for better service and a place in the bottom three. And bringing in players from the continent rarely has much immediate effect, they take months to adjust to BPL style play.

I trust by now everyone agrees that Roda and Richardson are not the answer, that the promise of exciting offensive football is gone by the boards unless Ruiz actually gets a run of games and delivers. More likely, we'll struggle to finish 15th. I've been watching a lot of games on TV lately, and on current form we fit better at the bottom than in the middle. Other teams (e.g., QPR) are recognizing how to play us better than we recognize how to play them.

not everyone agrees, just saying.

[ScalleysDad]

Look, friends, we won't see Ruiz or Diarra suited up for FFC until February, provided they're fit by then. I'm not a Darren Bent fan, but bringing in yet another striker without improving the team's skill and imagination in the midfield is likely to leave us with two strikers moping about wishing for better service and a place in the bottom three. And bringing in players from the continent rarely has much immediate effect, they take months to adjust to BPL style play.

I trust by now everyone agrees that Roda and Richardson are not the answer, that the promise of exciting offensive football is gone by the boards unless Ruiz actually gets a run of games and delivers. More likely, we'll struggle to finish 15th. I've been watching a lot of games on TV lately, and on current form we fit better at the bottom than in the middle. Other teams (e.g., QPR) are recognizing how to play us better than we recognize how to play them.

not everyone agrees, just saying.

Its a reasonable point though is'nt it. Take out the cup game and February is seven league games away with Man U straight off on 2nd so make it eight or 24 points. Ruiz won't be contributing to any of that so why the tag of messiah? Bent/Berbatov/Ruiz has been mentioned as an option but how does that differ from Petric/Berbatov/Ruiz? At least Petric has had game time but lets face it the odds of Ruiz and Berbatov being on the same pitch at the same time and on fire at the same time is getting to be a very long shot indeed. Creativity is fine but a solid midfielder stemming the leaks and seizing the midfield by the scruff of the neck is equally important as, lets face it, the rest of the season is going to be a scrap.