Big, big January for Martin Jol

[Admin]

I've still not calmed down from the QPR game yet, normally I would have done by now so please excuse the fact if there is still a little venom to my post. Regardless of whether people feel Jol wasn't at fault for the QPR loss, he has to take some of the blame, if not half. He's the coach, he sends the team out and it's down to him to motive his players. I fail to see why the team didn't see the importance of such a game, especially being a London Derby and also against our bitter rival QPR. The manager, players would have known that 3,500 Fulham fans were also going to make the trip full of expectation. Even though people were sorry, disappointed after the game, that's still no excuse. The damage was done and such an awful performance will be remembered for years.

So, after 10 games with mixed feelings in regards to our form, where does Martin Jol go from here? Certainly he's a man of many talents and he's a good coach but something has to change. As a team, we've got enough quality even without key players in midfield to grind out results, but we're not. Fortress Fulham has become a place where teams seem to walk all over us lately and I can't remember the last time we turned over a big side at home. What has also happened to our ever so reliable back 4 who now leak goals like anything?

Obviously losing Dembele' last minute hit us big time but why would a manager rely on a players "word" about him staying? If a player doesn't sign a new contract then surely you don't take the risk. Jol once again has to take half the blame with this and a suitable replacement should have been lined up or drafted in. Same with the Dempsey saga.

I think we've limped through up until this point with what we've got but to be honest, the holes are starting to show through now. The result of a poor summer is now finally taking its toll and with the forever injured Bryan and Diarra on top of this isn't helping. Let's be honest, if we had mentioned a midfield pairing of Sidwell and Baird pre-season there'd be a lot of raised eyebrows. I'd like to add at this point that Honest Harry had a sniff around Bryan at Spurs and his exact words were "Good player, we've watched him a few times but he'd never stand up to the physical side of the Premiership".

Most will know that I'm not a great fan of Martin Jol, I find him to erratic and he loves change a winning formula. His love affair with certain players annoys me and I've never known a manager to get something totally wrong, when he gets it wrong. His history with falling out with players isn't great either. I'm going to write off the Liverpool game, in their own rights they should give us an absolute Tonkin and I think Suarez will have a massive say in this game.

I'm going to hold judgement until Southampton/Swansea and I feel that Jol needs a very successful January transfer window to put things right. He's had more than enough time to target players and I think the club know they need to heavily invest. Something still tells me that Jol isn't the man to take this club forward but on the other hand I'd love to be proved wrong. Time will tell but I'm hoping it's not time sitting in the bottom 3 of the Premiership.   

[Max Headroom]

There are things that need fixing definitely. Losing Murphy and Dembele without replacing them properly was always going to be a potential issue, but:

1. We have the same issue with Brede not yet signing a contract
2. Schwarzer isn't up to the standard of last year.
3. Ruiz and diarra being injured is massive.

All fixable/fixed in January hopefully.

remember we have played some beautiful football this year.....

[mangoputney]

I've still not calmed down from the QPR game yet, normally I would have done by now so please excuse the fact if there is still a little venom to my post. Regardless of whether people feel Jol wasn't at fault for the QPR loss, he has to take some of the blame, if not half. He's the coach, he sends the team out and it's down to him to motive his players. I fail to see why the team didn't see the importance of such a game, especially being a London Derby and also against our bitter rival QPR. The manager, players would have known that 3,500 Fulham fans were also going to make the trip full of expectation. Even though people were sorry, disappointed after the game, that's still no excuse. The damage was done and such an awful performance will be remembered for years.

So, after 10 games with mixed feelings in regards to our form, where does Martin Jol go from here? Certainly he's a man of many talents and he's a good coach but something has to change. As a team, we've got enough quality even without key players in midfield to grind out results, but we're not. Fortress Fulham has become a place where teams seem to walk all over us lately and I can't remember the last time we turned over a big side at home. What has also happened to our ever so reliable back 4 who now leak goals like anything?

Obviously losing Dembele' last minute hit us big time but why would a manager rely on a players "word" about him staying? If a player doesn't sign a new contract then surely you don't take the risk. Jol once again has to take half the blame with this and a suitable replacement should have been lined up or drafted in. Same with the Dempsey saga.

I think we've limped through up until this point with what we've got but to be honest, the holes are starting to show through now. The result of a poor summer is now finally taking its toll and with the forever injured Bryan and Diarra on top of this isn't helping. Let's be honest, if we had mentioned a midfield pairing of Sidwell and Baird pre-season there'd be a lot of raised eyebrows. I'd like to add at this point that Honest Harry had a sniff around Bryan at Spurs and his exact words were "Good player, we've watched him a few times but he'd never stand up to the physical side of the Premiership".

Most will know that I'm not a great fan of Martin Jol, I find him to erratic and he loves change a winning formula. His love affair with certain players annoys me and I've never known a manager to get something totally wrong, when he gets it wrong. His history with falling out with players isn't great either. I'm going to write off the Liverpool game, in their own rights they should give us an absolute Tonkin and I think Suarez will have a massive say in this game.

I'm going to hold judgement until Southampton/Swansea and I feel that Jol needs a very successful January transfer window to put things right. He's had more than enough time to target players and I think the club know they need to heavily invest. Something still tells me that Jol isn't the man to take this club forward but on the other hand I'd love to be proved wrong. Time will tell but I'm hoping it's not time sitting in the bottom 3 of the Premiership.   

+1

[JackyFulham90]

We will be fine the main thing killing us is Diarra & Ruiz out injured without them we are not a top 10 side with them we are, that's what needs to be looked at in January

[Rupert]

Obviously losing Dembele' last minute hit us big time but why would a manager rely on a players "word" about him staying? If a player doesn't sign a new contract then surely you don't take the risk. Jol once again has to take half the blame with this and a suitable replacement should have been lined up or drafted in. Same with the Dempsey saga.

I can't help but think you are being a little selective with your memory here as well as off your aim with the thunderbolts. Dembele was sold only because Spuds stumped up the money to trigger the release clause on his contract, wasn't he? Not because his contract was about to expire.

Regardless of that, it was not Jol who decided to sell him, nor was it Jol who failed to sign a suitable replacement, nor will it be Jol who signs (or fails to sign) a replacement in January. It is our Chief Exec who makes these calls. Blame Jol for the performance on Saturday, by all means, he is the coach and his job is to get the best out of the available pool of players, but to accuse him of being responsible for the transfer policy is plainly unjust. He can suggest targets, he can influence players decision to sign, or not, but he can not go out and sign anyone himself.

[MJG]

I think its a big 4 games coming up for Jol, let alone January.
If he picks up 7 pts for example all will be fine. 3 or less and I do think the board will wonder about giving him much money to spend and by doing that we would be in trouble.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

What a miserable anti-Jol rant.

When we have had our best team available we have played some really attractive and effective football. The end of Murphy's career at the top level, the loss of Dembele and the injuries to Ruiz, Diarra and Kacaniklic have made life difficult and more work is needed on that central misfield.

You also seem to conveniently forget that it was Jol who moved Dembele from a talented but not wildly effective attacking midfielder to become the defensive central midfield worth the £15m release fee and it was Jol who brought us Berbatov to replace Dempsey.

[Admin]

Obviously losing Dembele' last minute hit us big time but why would a manager rely on a players "word" about him staying? If a player doesn't sign a new contract then surely you don't take the risk. Jol once again has to take half the blame with this and a suitable replacement should have been lined up or drafted in. Same with the Dempsey saga.

I can't help but think you are being a little selective with your memory here as well as off your aim with the thunderbolts. Dembele was sold only because Spuds stumped up the money to trigger the release clause on his contract, wasn't he? Not because his contract was about to expire.

I'm sorry, but Dembele' already knew that someone was coming in for him, it was just a matter of time. Funny thing is, Fulham and Martin Jol were the last to know about it, they were even blinded by the fact that the player refused to sign a contract extension, or was simply hanging it out to the last minute. In this day and age, you never trust a players word, there is no loyalty in the game and we were, like it or not, right royally mugged off. Again, Jol should have expressed his concerns and had a replacement lined up. If you want me to soften my thunderbolts a bit, I'll share the blame out 50/50 to Jol and Fulham for being clueless twits!  

[Admin]

What a miserable anti-Jol rant.

When we have had our best team available we have played some really attractive and effective football. The end of Murphy's career at the top level, the loss of Dembele and the injuries to Ruiz, Diarra and Kacaniklic have made life difficult and more work is needed on that central misfield.

You also seem to conveniently forget that it was Jol who moved Dembele from a talented but not wildly effective attacking midfielder to become the defensive central midfield worth the £15m release fee and it was Jol who brought us Berbatov to replace Dempsey.

"Berbatov to replace Dempsey." What a load of absolute clueless waffle, including the bit about Berbatov replacing Dempsey. My god!

[rusty shackleford]

I dont expect any marquee signings in January. There isnt usually is there? Well, Hangeland but he was largely an unknown quantity beforehand.

I do expect a number of low key signings though

[Lighthouse]

The club are to blame for the transfer window. Jol was saying until the very last minute how many players we needed to come in. The club failed, for whatever reason to bring in the players needed. Jol on the other hand has shown some very odd methods in his tactics. He seems to have a first 11 but yet to find a way of playing without his best team available. Our dull, defensive, not crossing the half way line makes for awful away games. It isn't until the last ten minutes we come out of our shell which is nearly always too late.

If we lose away then let's at least have a go. The QPR game failed to raise one shot in the first half. I am embarrassed by that performance and know how much damage it did in the jol/fans relationship. I felt gutted after the last transfer window and doubt this one will be any better. Our old men are looking just that. Very old and very slow. Without our best team available we have no depth in the squad and a few players off form makes this very damaging.

January is important but somehow I think Fulham will let it drift by and as we struggle for form we will all wonder why we are in this state. Not hard when the club are gambling that the future will be brighter with investment in the youth squad while ignoring the present squad.

[cottage cheese]

berbatov was not brought in to replace dempsey. He was coming regardless and martin said so that his ideal line up was to include dempsey and berbatov.

[Admin]

I dont expect any marquee signings in January. There isnt usually is there? Well, Hangeland but he was largely an unknown quantity beforehand.

I do expect a number of low key signings though

I expect a marquee signing for that central midfield role, coupled with a half decent one in defence. It's not like it's been a problem all season and that Jol/Fulham have had plenty of time to act on it.

[Sammyffc]

to be honest im a massive fan of jol . a few games this season we have played incredible . however like maestro had said , the loss of dembele killed us , also the loss of dempsey . we literally had no time to buy a replacement . playing richardson on the left agaisnt QPR was a massive call and ultimately didnt work . however , kaca was still not 100 percent and we all know richardson has much better defensive qualities . so i can see jols logic in starting him . the loss of diarra has killed us in midfield . although i have been impressed with karagounis , he may run around like a fairy but he can still hold his own . however , in january i can see us being very busy . the signing of berbatov will help massively in getting players to the club as it looks like we are determined to be a major force in a few seasons . plus i can see where people are coming from when they dont think jol can motivate players , however i always believe if your a pro footballer on 20k plus a week you shouldnt need motivating that much to be fair . everyone played poo and they know it . i can dream but my christmas wish is we get darren bent . bent berba with ruiz behind ? easy now tigers !  :wine:

[TonyGilroy]

What does "have a replacement lined up" mean in practice.

I assume that Dembele really did have a release clause in his contract and it was unfortunate that that clause could be triggered at any time in the window. Better if it had been limited to the earlier part of the window so that might have been bad negotiating. But not by Jol of course.

Dembele left late. I've no doubt we had targets in mind and were clearly talking to players right up until the last minute but that's when the price rises and unless we were prepared to pay what ever it took for players that weren't particularly interested in coming (as per QPR) we simply ran out of time.

We couldn't have had a Dembele quality replacement sitting patiently for weeks waiting to sign a contract on the off chance that Dembele might leave.

[rusty shackleford]

I dont expect any marquee signings in January. There isnt usually is there? Well, Hangeland but he was largely an unknown quantity beforehand.

I do expect a number of low key signings though

I expect a marquee signing for that central midfield role, coupled with a half decent one in defence. It's not like it's been a problem all season and that Jol/Fulham have had plenty of time to act on it.

Well, i would like that to happen. I would also have liked it to happen during the 3 months of the summer and it didnt.

[Admin]

What does "have a replacement lined up" mean in practice.

I assume that Dembele really did have a release clause in his contract and it was unfortunate that that clause could be triggered at any time in the window. Better if it had been limited to the earlier part of the window so that might have been bad negotiating. But not by Jol of course.

Dembele left late. I've no doubt we had targets in mind and were clearly talking to players right up until the last minute but that's when the price rises and unless we were prepared to pay what ever it took for players that weren't particularly interested in coming (as per QPR) we simply ran out of time.

We couldn't have had a Dembele quality replacement sitting patiently for weeks waiting to sign a contract on the off chance that Dembele might leave.

Tony, I wasn't talking about a Dembele' type quality replacement sitting there waiting, I know that isn't possible. I was talking more about a suitable player for that roll that would have been a bit more dynamic and creative in midfield rather than Sidwell or Baird. Even if we spent 3-4 million and Dembele' didn't go when he did, it wouldn't have been a massive financial loss, unfortunately for us he did and the lack of depth is crippling us. All I'm saying is, it would have paid to have been a bit more cautious over Dembele' rather than being so gullible

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Obviously losing Dembele' last minute hit us big time but why would a manager rely on a players "word" about him staying? If a player doesn't sign a new contract then surely you don't take the risk. Jol once again has to take half the blame with this and a suitable replacement should have been lined up or drafted in. Same with the Dempsey saga.

I can't help but think you are being a little selective with your memory here as well as off your aim with the thunderbolts. Dembele was sold only because Spuds stumped up the money to trigger the release clause on his contract, wasn't he? Not because his contract was about to expire.

I'm sorry, but Dembele' already knew that someone was coming in for him, it was just a matter of time. Funny thing is, Fulham and Martin Jol were the last to know about it, they were even blinded by the fact that the player refused to sign a contract extension, or was simply hanging it out to the last minute. In this day and age, you never trust a players word, there is no loyalty in the game and we were, like it or not, right royally mugged off. Again, Jol should have expressed his concerns and had a replacement lined up. If you want me to soften my thunderbolts a bit, I'll share the blame out 50/50 to Jol and Fulham for being clueless twits!  

" . . . right royally mugged off"? We got £15m for a player with six months left on his contract.

According to reports we were talking to players but the deals did not go through. Let's hope we have better luck in the next two windows.

[Rupert]

Obviously losing Dembele' last minute hit us big time but why would a manager rely on a players "word" about him staying? If a player doesn't sign a new contract then surely you don't take the risk. Jol once again has to take half the blame with this and a suitable replacement should have been lined up or drafted in. Same with the Dempsey saga.

I can't help but think you are being a little selective with your memory here as well as off your aim with the thunderbolts. Dembele was sold only because Spuds stumped up the money to trigger the release clause on his contract, wasn't he? Not because his contract was about to expire.

I'm sorry, but Dembele' already knew that someone was coming in for him, it was just a matter of time. Funny thing is, Fulham and Martin Jol were the last to know about it, they were even blinded by the fact that the player refused to sign a contract extension, or was simply hanging it out to the last minute. In this day and age, you never trust a players word, there is no loyalty in the game and we were, like it or not, right royally mugged off. Again, Jol should have expressed his concerns and had a replacement lined up. If you want me to soften my thunderbolts a bit, I'll share the blame out 50/50 to Jol and Fulham for being clueless twits!  

Hmm, interesting observation that selling Dembele for £15million represents the club being mugged in some way. Dembele had never made any secret of his desire to move on to a bigger clubs from us, so by your logic we should have had a top quality replacement lined up for two or three years, just in case. We must be a much bigger draw than I previously thought, to have such quality players quietly biding their time until we put out the call.

Is the real problem here that we have a number of fans who are getting used to us finishing top half of the Premiership and who now think this is our "proper" level? To do so, season after season, we do indeed need the likes of the Dembeles and Dempseys of this world playing for us, but can we realistically afford them with a 25,000 capacity ground? We can occasionally unearth such gems, but as others have noted, it took a positional change to see Moussa reach his potential, a change initiated by your all-time favourite Fulham manager, Martin Jol. Dempsey hardly set the club alight for his first couple of seasons either. Yet, it seems, we now expect a ready made replacement when they move on.

Ah, how we fans are changing. It's not that long ago that we used to sneer at "big club" fans who demanded success as their birthright, the likes of Sheffield Wednesday and Leeds United come readily to mind, we used to ask who the hell they thought they were, telling us they "deserved" to be in the Premiership and we did not. Are others now justified in sneering at us?

[EJL]

What a miserable anti-Jol rant.

When we have had our best team available we have played some really attractive and effective football. The end of Murphy's career at the top level, the loss of Dembele and the injuries to Ruiz, Diarra and Kacaniklic have made life difficult and more work is needed on that central misfield.

You also seem to conveniently forget that it was Jol who moved Dembele from a talented but not wildly effective attacking midfielder to become the defensive central midfield worth the £15m release fee and it was Jol who brought us Berbatov to replace Dempsey.

"Berbatov to replace Dempsey." What a load of absolute clueless waffle, including the bit about Berbatov replacing Dempsey. My god!

Funny how all the mods try and discourage jumping all over someone's opinion, like you just demonstrated. Double standards much?

I think you understand what Apprentice to the Maestro was getting at. Berbatov obviously wasn't a like for like replacement for Dempsey (position, playstyle etc) but he was a replacement for Dempsey's goals. Berbatov has five goals so far this season and at the same stage last year, Dempsey also had five. Yes, we never invested into the left flank, which I think is our weakest link apart from our defence, but we did make up for the goals lost.