Before You Start Slating The Manager And Wanting Him Out

[tomcolemanfry]

Jol is a good manager, I thought the decision to take Frei and Dejagah off earlier was weird though. Two pacy wingers to get crosses in when you need a goal, and when you lump Hangeland up front, he spends most of his time lingering in midfield because he's knackered.

He'll get his chance for the moment, although a few more losses in January and I can see him being under serious pressure.

[aussierod]

:dft007:
Just who do you think with the present set of players is going to do
any better.
Who do you think would come in,The Chosen One(as He Calls Himself)
Pepo ex Barcelona,no of course not.
Jol is an excellent coach who needs proper backing by the Chairman to
get some decent players in and deadwood out.
Its not Jols fault we lost Dempsey and more important Dembelle.
Get behind him,and start looking elsewhere for blame,like some
overpaid and not pulling their weight..

I disagree I think he wanted both of them gone, he certainly didn't try to keep them. He wanted to start his own team as every manager inevitably does, and it is blowing up in his face at the moment. we finally had everyone on the same page and playing to their maximum potential and this guy changes everything... so who's the over priced person you blame? for me it is the manager. That being said, I don't know who would be better than he is, so I will support him no matter what. But I will place the blame where the blame deserves to be placed.

How do you figure Jol wanted to get rid of both Dempsey and Dembele????

From my memory we offered Dempsey the largest contract ever offered to a Fulham player and Jol openly said he loved Dempsey for all his goals and effort. Once Dempsey said he wanted to move to Liverpool he was frozen out as our futures clearly weren't going to be entwined any longer.

Dembele on the other hand it was clear to see Jol was building his midfield around him, firstly converting him to a midfield player and then partnering him with the more defensive Diarra to give him the freedom to get forward. Dembele promised he was going to stay this season but Spurs paid his £15mill buy-out clause for his last contracted year and hence left.

Really, I'd love to know where you got that ludicrous idea, other than you think every manager wants to get rid of every player signed by former managers....

[JHunter_Fulham4Life]

Lets sack Jol 3 days before the window opens and take a fortnight to appoint someone else, dropping a whole load of points inbetween as Billy McKinlay takes charge. Then when we appoint someone, the new guy will have 10 days to assess the squad and bring required players in.

Foolproof plan.

Point taken. But other than in today's 2nd half, there's been no spark and no commitment. Liverpool was understandable, but there's no reason we should have lost today, and no reason we only got a point against Saints. Frankly, Martin's voice may not be getting through any more.

Please understand: I love Martin, and cheered when they brought him in to replace Sparky; I'm also the muppet who was putting up "Paging Mr. Hughes..." posts toward the end of today's match. Whatever happens (whether we keep Martin, whether we drop Martin), MAF has to see that he's got to open the change purse, and whoever's in charge of transfers -- be it Martin or management -- has to really get stuck in this transfer window and make serious offers to serious players, and get them in without all the faffing around we saw in the fall.

[HatterDon]

:dft007:
Just who do you think with the present set of players is going to do
any better.
Who do you think would come in,The Chosen One(as He Calls Himself)
Pepo ex Barcelona,no of course not.
Jol is an excellent coach who needs proper backing by the Chairman to
get some decent players in and deadwood out.
Its not Jols fault we lost Dempsey and more important Dembelle.
Get behind him,and start looking elsewhere for blame,like some
overpaid and not pulling their weight..

Ladies and gentleman, I think we've found Martin Jol's agent.

[JHunter_Fulham4Life]

:dft007:
Just who do you think with the present set of players is going to do
any better.
Who do you think would come in,The Chosen One(as He Calls Himself)
Pepo ex Barcelona,no of course not.
Jol is an excellent coach who needs proper backing by the Chairman to
get some decent players in and deadwood out.
Its not Jols fault we lost Dempsey and more important Dembelle.
Get behind him,and start looking elsewhere for blame,like some
overpaid and not pulling their weight..

Ladies and gentleman, I think we've found Martin Jol's agent.

Either that or Martin's up way too early -- or way too late! :wine:

[Toshes Fag Packet]

:dft007:
Just who do you think with the present set of players is going to do
any better.
Who do you think would come in,The Chosen One(as He Calls Himself)
Pepo ex Barcelona,no of course not.
Jol is an excellent coach who needs proper backing by the Chairman to
get some decent players in and deadwood out.
Its not Jols fault we lost Dempsey and more important Dembelle.
Get behind him,and start looking elsewhere for blame,like some
overpaid and not pulling their weight..

Ladies and gentleman, I think we've found Martin Jol's agent.

Im only doing it on a part time basis mate...lol

[McBridefan1]

:dft007:
Just who do you think with the present set of players is going to do
any better.
Who do you think would come in,The Chosen One(as He Calls Himself)
Pepo ex Barcelona,no of course not.
Jol is an excellent coach who needs proper backing by the Chairman to
get some decent players in and deadwood out.
Its not Jols fault we lost Dempsey and more important Dembelle.
Get behind him,and start looking elsewhere for blame,like some
overpaid and not pulling their weight..

I disagree I think he wanted both of them gone, he certainly didn't try to keep them. He wanted to start his own team as every manager inevitably does, and it is blowing up in his face at the moment. we finally had everyone on the same page and playing to their maximum potential and this guy changes everything... so who's the over priced person you blame? for me it is the manager. That being said, I don't know who would be better than he is, so I will support him no matter what. But I will place the blame where the blame deserves to be placed.

How do you figure Jol wanted to get rid of both Dempsey and Dembele????

From my memory we offered Dempsey the largest contract ever offered to a Fulham player and Jol openly said he loved Dempsey for all his goals and effort. Once Dempsey said he wanted to move to Liverpool he was frozen out as our futures clearly weren't going to be entwined any longer.

Dembele on the other hand it was clear to see Jol was building his midfield around him, firstly converting him to a midfield player and then partnering him with the more defensive Diarra to give him the freedom to get forward. Dembele promised he was going to stay this season but Spurs paid his £15mill buy-out clause for his last contracted year and hence left.

Really, I'd love to know where you got that ludicrous idea, other than you think every manager wants to get rid of every player signed by former managers....

They had to buy out his contract as that was jols way of freeing up money for berbs and the rest of the team he wanted to put together. You said it yourself dembele wanted to stay, but old stars have to go to make room for dimistar. And there is probably more to the dempsy fiasco than we know.

[Max Headroom]

Did you see the game yesterday. We lost but I left happy as for he first time in months we played well and we should have won.

We have one through a lean spell because of injuries and Dembele leaving.

We will be out of it soon.

Jol is not to blame

[aussierod]

:dft007:
Just who do you think with the present set of players is going to do
any better.
Who do you think would come in,The Chosen One(as He Calls Himself)
Pepo ex Barcelona,no of course not.
Jol is an excellent coach who needs proper backing by the Chairman to
get some decent players in and deadwood out.
Its not Jols fault we lost Dempsey and more important Dembelle.
Get behind him,and start looking elsewhere for blame,like some
overpaid and not pulling their weight..

I disagree I think he wanted both of them gone, he certainly didn't try to keep them. He wanted to start his own team as every manager inevitably does, and it is blowing up in his face at the moment. we finally had everyone on the same page and playing to their maximum potential and this guy changes everything... so who's the over priced person you blame? for me it is the manager. That being said, I don't know who would be better than he is, so I will support him no matter what. But I will place the blame where the blame deserves to be placed.

How do you figure Jol wanted to get rid of both Dempsey and Dembele????

From my memory we offered Dempsey the largest contract ever offered to a Fulham player and Jol openly said he loved Dempsey for all his goals and effort. Once Dempsey said he wanted to move to Liverpool he was frozen out as our futures clearly weren't going to be entwined any longer.

Dembele on the other hand it was clear to see Jol was building his midfield around him, firstly converting him to a midfield player and then partnering him with the more defensive Diarra to give him the freedom to get forward. Dembele promised he was going to stay this season but Spurs paid his £15mill buy-out clause for his last contracted year and hence left.

Really, I'd love to know where you got that ludicrous idea, other than you think every manager wants to get rid of every player signed by former managers....

They had to buy out his contract as that was jols way of freeing up money for berbs and the rest of the team he wanted to put together. You said it yourself dembele wanted to stay, but old stars have to go to make room for dimistar. And there is probably more to the dempsy fiasco than we know.

They had to buy out who's contract?

I seriously don't think Jol realistically thought we would be able to sign Berbatov, he spoke to him last year when Berbatov wasn't getting a run for Utd and was told no chance. Jol also would have convinced Berbatov that he'd be playing with stars such as Dembele, not on his own.

I don't think my points getting across at all but I think most on here will know that Dempsey left as he wanted to play for a bigger club and didn't want to wait any longer and Dembele also wanted to play for a bigger club but wanted to stay with us for another season. Jol would have loved to have kept both, bringing in Berbatov had nothing to do with their departures whatsoever, but we can agree to disagree there I guess

[Oiseau]

Our current problems are largely down to Alistair Mackintosh, not Martin Jol.

Sacking Jol would destabilise our squad yet again. Any club towards the bottom of the Premier League table needs unity and stability in order to escape 'the drop.' Change will unsettle our players and put us into an even worse position.

There's a chance that sacking our manager will lead to some players jumping ship. Players who are towards the end of their contracts may be reluctant to resign. The likes of Berbatov and Ruiz who joined to play under Jol will not be happy.

Sacking Jol will mean that we'll need to begin the rebuilding process all over again. A high number of managers in a short period of time can cause serious problems within a squad. We've needed rebuilding since Roy left - next Summer is crucial and we need a longer term manager at the helm.

This is not the time of year to sack your manager. Even if we were able to appoint a new manager before the transfer window closes, he'll have no time to pursue players that we desperately need to purchase.

Name me another manager who is realistically available to Fulham and currently without a job? Are they of a higher quality than Jol? Would you be willing to let them take charge?

Sacking Jol would be far, far more damaging than keeping him. Simple.

[Lighthouse]

Would sacking Jol upset the squad? They don't seem and have never seemed very 'together' since Jol arrived.

Agree about the problems being down to the MD. But not all.

Not sure the team would be that upset if Jol goes.

[Oiseau]

Would sacking Jol upset the squad? They don't seem and have never seemed very 'together' since Jol arrived.

Agree about the problems being down to the MD. But not all.

Not sure the team would be that upset if Jol goes.

Alright then.

Who would you appoint?

Who could do a better job?
Who's currently available to Fulham (so, no Pep)?
Who's currently out of a job and proven?

Roy Hodgson's are a rarity.

I am still behind Jol. I believe that he is a good manager. We are in trouble because of our business this Summer, not because of his management. If Jol can't keep this team up, I don't know who else could.

[Lighthouse]

Would sacking Jol upset the squad? They don't seem and have never seemed very 'together' since Jol arrived.

Agree about the problems being down to the MD. But not all.

Not sure the team would be that upset if Jol goes.

Alright then.

Who would you appointment?

Who could do a better job?
Who's currently available to Fulham (so, no Pep)?
Who's currently out of a job and proven?

Roy Hodgson's are a rarity.

I am still behind Jol. I believe that he is a good manager. We are in trouble because of our business this Summer, not because of his management. If Jol can't keep this team up, I don't know who else could.

Nor do I but nor do I think that keeping a manager who is doing damage is a good thing either. So it is not so much who could do a better job, let's say the untried Sean O Driscoll or Not yetknownperson. Just because there is nobody aboutnyet doesn't mean that it is good enough to keep a failing manager. If not buying in the Summer is the clubs fault (I agree) and Jol cannot manage the squad he has. Let's all lower our expectations nad prepare for the Championship. Looks as if the club and manager are incapable of doing the job to keep us in the Prem.

[McBridefan1]

Martin is a very good spotter of talent, and obviously has no problem getting players to come... But there is a reason he has been allowed to leave every club he has been with. Maybe it's his tactics or maybe it's his inability to get those talented players to play to their full potential... I don't know but he is no Woy, and I'm no great fan of Woy. All that said he is building a team with young talent, for a good run sometime in the future. My hope is he doesn't get us relegated before the team does finally develope. I think he is on the right track though... We just need some big results, on current form I can see us squeezing out 1 from the next nine points. Getting harder to see where our points will come from.

[sunburywhite]

Aaron, that was probably one of the most sensible pieces written on this whole subject

Roy had us playing in exactly the same manner as he had Inter Milan playing, basically two line of 4 who didn't move out of sight of each other and were almost like watching an army march. The top two stikers then came back inside to put pressure on the oppostion back four when they (the trikers) did not have the ball

Under Jol we have tried to play champagne football using R Whites Lemonade.

Everyone knew Dempsey was going, Jol left him off pre season trips so that was no suprise. But we did not sign anyone to take his place. At the end of the day that is down to Jol. The manager has to stand up and say I want this, back me or sack me (he was in a strong enough position at that time, he isnt now)
Dembele was a shame but I think Jol thought Ruiz could take his place

Of the points you make Aaron
1) We have no cohesion and are terrible in EVERY aspect on the field. - agree, the players do not now who is going to do what
2) Our players across the board look like they are unfit. - totally agree, look at the hamstring injuries. Jol has a reputation for not gettig his players traing hard and it is showing
3) There is nothing resembling "team spirit" or a sense of unity. - also no leader, Karagouis looks like the only one who cares.
4) 90% of the substitutions made this season have been head scratchers at best and utter disasters at worst. - 90% is harsh but 70% is nearer the truth, Kasami cant even get 5 minutes as sub.
5) Even when playing well we had no consistency. - cant remember that far back
6) It isn't working and up until today no one tried to fix it. - Its not in Jols mentality to be able to play a defensive game - AND THAT IS HIS WEAKNESS

[FFC4Life]

All that said he is building a team with young talent

Really? Not that I can see. Most of his signings have been the wrong side of 30. Sure we've brought in a load of exciting looking/sounding U18s, but most of them have next to nothing to do with Jol. Kacaniklic is the only young player that has genuinely progressed under his stewardship.

Putting aside results and questions about whether he is the right man for the job, if one of his remits was to lower the age of the team significantly (as rumoured) then I'm afraid he's failed miserably in that respect so far.

[McBridefan1]

All that said he is building a team with young talent

Really? Not that I can see. Most of his signings have been the wrong side of 30. Sure we've brought in a load of exciting looking/sounding U18s, but most of them have next to nothing to do with Jol. Kacaniklic is the only young player that has genuinely progressed under his stewardship.

Putting aside results and questions about whether he is the right man for the job, if one of his remits was to lower the age of the team significantly (as rumoured) then I'm afraid he's failed miserably in that respect so far.

I was just trying to give the guy some benefit of the doubt... I don't disagree with you.

[ffc73]

Martin is a very good spotter of talent, and obviously has no problem getting players to come... But there is a reason he has been allowed to leave every club he has been with. Maybe it's his tactics or maybe it's his inability to get those talented players to play to their full potential... I don't know but he is no Woy, and I'm no great fan of Woy. All that said he is building a team with young talent, for a good run sometime in the future. My hope is he doesn't get us relegated before the team does finally develope. I think he is on the right track though... We just need some big results, on current form I can see us squeezing out 1 from the next nine points. Getting harder to see where our points will come from.

McLaren tried something similar with young talent at Middlesboro after their UEFA/Europa run a few years back.  Some of those players (Danny Graham is one) are performing well in the Premiership now but Middlesboro were relegated before the youngsters 'made the grade'.

Villa are trying the same this season and struggling badly.

We need an injection of younger players but they should be blended in with the older heads.  However there seems to be a reluctance to bring the youngsters at all which is surprising.

[MJG]

Martin is a very good spotter of talent, and obviously has no problem getting players to come... But there is a reason he has been allowed to leave every club he has been with. Maybe it's his tactics or maybe it's his inability to get those talented players to play to their full potential... I don't know but he is no Woy, and I'm no great fan of Woy. All that said he is building a team with young talent, for a good run sometime in the future. My hope is he doesn't get us relegated before the team does finally develope. I think he is on the right track though... We just need some big results, on current form I can see us squeezing out 1 from the next nine points. Getting harder to see where our points will come from.

McLaren tried something similar with young talent at Middlesboro after their UEFA/Europa run a few years back.  Some of those players (Danny Graham is one) are performing well in the Premiership now but Middlesboro were relegated before the youngsters 'made the grade'.

Villa are trying the same this season and struggling badly.

We need an injection of younger players but they should be blended in with the older heads.  However there seems to be a reluctance to bring the youngsters at all which is surprising.

im pretty sure we have no outfield player in the squad aged 22-26 which I doubt any other prem club has.

[McBridefan1]

Martin is a very good spotter of talent, and obviously has no problem getting players to come... But there is a reason he has been allowed to leave every club he has been with. Maybe it's his tactics or maybe it's his inability to get those talented players to play to their full potential... I don't know but he is no Woy, and I'm no great fan of Woy. All that said he is building a team with young talent, for a good run sometime in the future. My hope is he doesn't get us relegated before the team does finally develope. I think he is on the right track though... We just need some big results, on current form I can see us squeezing out 1 from the next nine points. Getting harder to see where our points will come from.

McLaren tried something similar with young talent at Middlesboro after their UEFA/Europa run a few years back.  Some of those players (Danny Graham is one) are performing well in the Premiership now but Middlesboro were relegated before the youngsters 'made the grade'.

Villa are trying the same this season and struggling badly.

We need an injection of younger players but they should be blended in with the older heads.  However there seems to be a reluctance to bring the youngsters at all which is surprising.

Listen I have my reservations about jol too, but he has enough irons in the fire to warrant another season at least... Listen love or hate berbatov, that was a huge signing for us, and he was brought in to replace Dempsey or at least his goals. Ok, it isn't working out because we also lost dembele, but you get the feeling we are one good player away from having a good enough side to get us through this season.