Old Sod's Army

[bog]

Men v Boys. To me we have been going down hill since Hodgson left. Hughes lived of his players, although Dempele was a big signing. Then Jol rode into town. Now he has outed a few and we have many who don't seem to care....or do not rate Jol. The way we started today was a disgrace. Playing the favourites for everything and we looked as up for having a real go as I am for voting Tory. I feel for those who travelled up! Disgrace!!!!

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[God The Mechanic]

To me we have been going down hill since Hodgson left.

And some of the blame has to be apportioned to Roy - he worked in a very short term fashion, signing older players to get the immediate job done.  Jol is suffering from that.

[Forever Fulham]

Too much time has passed, GTM, to blame Roy for today's woes.  So much of this game is played between the ears.  We lacked courage up top and smarts on defense.  There are certain qualities which a manager must bring which I think are lacking in Jol.  The ability to reach players, be a psychologist, motivate, inspire, instill belief and self-confidence, instinctive action/reaction.  Adapt and adjust on the fly.  We lost three starters last year who self-motivated, and were  brimming with confidence.  Dempsey, Dembele, and Murphy.  Players like that are contagious to their teammates.  Every time Berbatov, talented as he is, rolls his eyes in disgust, waves his hands about in frustration, or gesticulates like a purist, is he helping or hurting? 

[ron]

Too much time has passed, GTM, to blame Roy for today's woes.  So much of this game is played between the ears.  We lacked courage up top and smarts on defense.  There are certain qualities which a manager must bring which I think are lacking in Jol.  The ability to reach players, be a psychologist, motivate, inspire, instill belief and self-confidence, instinctive action/reaction.  Adapt and adjust on the fly.  We lost three starters last year who self-motivated, and were  brimming with confidence.  Dempsey, Dembele, and Murphy.  Players like that are contagious to their teammates.  Every time Berbatov, talented as he is, rolls his eyes in disgust, waves his hands about in frustration, or gesticulates like a purist, is he helping or hurting?  

I don't think we can blame Berbatov for showing frustration, otherwise we would be saying that a certain Johnny Haynes was also hurting more than helping, (because he at times showed the same)....which we know can't be true, otherwise without him we wouldn't have had most of the 'sixties in the top flight.

....otherwise of course I agree totally. Roy did what he did given the parlous situation that we were in. Jol had a blank canvas to work with, but has failed to produce the vital spark which turns journeymen into an efficient unit, greater than the sum of the parts.

It is getting increasingly difficult week by week to see any cause for optimism in these dire performances.

[bog]

Under Roy's instruction so many players improved beyond recognition. Jol just seems to wind them up. The way he treated Zamora says it all. That player terrorised europe's defences during our run to the final and within weeks of his arrival he was at odds with Jol. Roy knows how to treat people. Jol does not. Worrying times ahead.   

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[Logicalman]

Under Roy's instruction so many players improved beyond recognition. Jol just seems to wind them up. The way he treated Zamora says it all. That player terrorised europe's defences during our run to the final and within weeks of his arrival he was at odds with Jol. Roy knows how to treat people. Jol does not. Worrying times ahead.   

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You have seemed to overlooked the guy in between these two, he was here for two windows, though I would accept he didn't make earth-shattering changes to the squad. I would ask though, if he had stayed, and given the dosh, would he have started changing the squad and/or repeated the same success he had after inheriting Woys squad?

[epsomraver]

You would point to his performance at QPR to say no.

[filham]

Over the summer we lost Dembele, Dempsey, Murphy, Etuhu, and AJ and last Christmas Zamora left. Now the manager could not have been surprised by these departures, in fact he may have encouraged one or two of them.

Surely a good manager would have had replacements in place by now. We are missing all of these players.

[bog]

Exactly filham.

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[Forever Fulham]

That makes sense.

[TheDon]

ray lewington

[RaySmith]

Obvuiously  not exact replacements, but -

Berba - replacement for Dempsey
Pog - replacement for Zamora
Petric - replacement for AJ
Diarra - replacement for Murphy
Kara - replacement for Etuhu

Then, there are his other signings - Riether, Ruiz, Riise, Richardson, Rodallega, Dejagah - all bought in for nothing , or for little money.

Though I don't think Jol could do anything about those players leaving, though he may have fallen out with Zamora  over his attitude, and is operating under severe constraints in bringing in new players.

[Forever Fulham]

Yes, he brought all of them in.  He has put his stamp on the club.  His choices.  So why not connect the end result with the manager?  He was given an extension too quickly.

[bog]

Have to say that that list looks pretty good, however I feel that I would like to see how they would perfom for Roy cos they aint for Jol. Two weeks running we have stared abjectly, giving the ball away in midfield with a sloppy pass and and a goal down in 90secs. Diabolical!

(Does anyone recall Vic Buckingham?)

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[A Humble Man]

Have to say that that list looks pretty good, however I feel that I would like to see how they would perfom for Roy cos they aint for Jol. Two weeks running we have stared abjectly, giving the ball away in midfield with a sloppy pass and and a goal down in 90secs. Diabolical!

(Does anyone recall Vic Buckingham?)

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I remember VB but he comes from an age when managers decided of their est 11 and played them in every game and all they did was buy and sell a few players, pick this team and tell them to give their best.  It was an uncomplicated job that was kept for many years by the incumbent.

[ron]

Have to say that that list looks pretty good, however I feel that I would like to see how they would perfom for Roy cos they aint for Jol. Two weeks running we have stared abjectly, giving the ball away in midfield with a sloppy pass and and a goal down in 90secs. Diabolical!

(Does anyone recall Vic Buckingham?)

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I remember VB but he comes from an age when managers decided of their est 11 and played them in every game and all they did was buy and sell a few players, pick this team and tell them to give their best.  It was an uncomplicated job that was kept for many years by the incumbent.

Agreed there was less to think about with only 1 sub being introduced in the middle of the 'sixties.....
   .....but the successful managers still picked teams to counter and beat the teams they were playing against.

It was in the backroom staff that Buckingham made savage sackings, and in a stroke tore the heart out of the club, bless him!

[TonyGilroy]

He brought in Dave Sexton though who transformed the team in his brief time with us. He did so well that he went to Arsenal but of course wasn't replaced adequately.

George Cohen is very complimentary about Buckingham in his autobiography.