Malcolm McDonald

[filham]

We picked up Ray Houghton on a free from West Ham and he had three brilliant seasons for us, which makes him one of our best ever signings.
However, we then sold him for something like £150,000 to Oxford (who were then in the top div.) he won a League Cup there and then moved to Liverpool for not far short of £1m. He won two League titles (Prem) and two FA cups there.
He then moved on to Aston Villa for nigh on £1m with whom he again won a League Cup.
He also earned 70-odd caps for the best ever Irish side (despite his broad Glasgow accent).

So, like Allan Clarke, one of our best buys and one of our worst sells.


Clarke went for a supposed £150,000, which was pretty much par for the course then. Unfortunately £50,000 of that was accounted for by Mr Large.

Yes Ray Houghton was a very good signing, but in my book our best ever bargain just has to be Ivor.

[TonyGilroy]

Then we paid 100,000 for Joe Gilroy and he was not the player we had been told he was. John Dempsey was sold to that lot up the road and we got Barry Lloyd in exchange and although he was hard working he was small in stature and was easily knocked off the ball. But we still had Steve Earle and Les Barret, as well as Fred Callaghan at the back and for that matter Bobby Robson.
The propaganda from the programme was awful We had the first Mascot in Freddie Fulham who was telling us that it was all going to be allright if we got behind the boys. But we blindly without a wimper fell two leagues in two seasons

Joe Gilroy (no relation) cost nothing like £100K - he was a cheap buy that did OK, just about. A Graham Leggatt very lite but a decent trier who scored a few goals.

[cmg]

...the Haynes story is the main reason according to Malcolm Macdonald's autobiography 'Super Mac'.

The scenario: Bobby Robson had been sacked and Trinder had appointed Johnny Haynes as care -taker manager, Alan Humphreys, one of the coaches at the time was telling players one by one to go up to the office at Craven Cottage where he was met by Johnny Haynes. According to Malcolm's account of the meeting ..."one of his first acts was to tell me I wasn't playing the following day. But I'm your highest goalscorer! I'm the only goalscorer! I protested. In response to that  Haynes sadi coldly, "As far as I am concerned you can't play and you'll never make a career for yourself in the game. And while at this club you won't play here again". Basically after that Macdonald was relegated to the reserves.

I had heard similar things before the book came out, we will never know as we only have one side of the matter, but if true that is the reason we lost our home grown, Fulham supporting, potential prolific goalscorer. Fulhamish..?

Thanks for that, LB. Very sad, if true. Those 'autobigraphies' are not always the absolute truth (macdonald had been dropped before Robon was sacked), but there must be something in it. As you say, we'll never know the other side of the story. It seems so unlike Haynes (although the wrong side of JH was probably a bad place to be at Fulham FC and Macdonald, even when he matured, could be loud-mouthed and a bit obnoxious at times) and so very short-sighted. You only have to look at the video (thanks to Ged for that) to see how well they played together.

As for the vid, two other things stand out. Firstly, poor old Frank Large, always tried, put himself about, didn't hide, got into the right spots - but never looked like scoring. The other thing is Macdonald himself. For an 18 year old having his fourth start, his performance is little short of sensational. Not only does he score a fine goal (brilliant first touch and turn from a Haynes pass/shot) and go close with two other efforts, but he crosses with both feet, passes, beats men with skill and speed, links with Haynes, tackles back and puts in those super long throws that I had forgotten about. Oh and he was good in the air, too.

All this reminds me that Macdonald was an incredible athlete. In the 70s there was a tv programme called Superstars in which stars of various sports competed against each other at various sporting tests (running, swimming, cycling etc.). Generally the footballers who appeared were pathetic (anyone remember Kevin Keegan falling off his bike?) and were put in their place by the superior fitness of the track and field and rugby stars. But when Macdonald came on it he blew eveyone away. He showed total determination and amazed everyone by clocking a 10.7 for the 100m, on a cinder track and wearing trainers.

[LBNo11]

...Joe Gilroy was signed from Clyde for £20,000 and scored 8 times in 24 games, so naturally we sold him...

[Andy S]

Ged thanks for that great piece of footage from Match of the Day Keneth Wolstenholme giving the comentry as well We were unlucky in that game and no bias and that game was like many were in that season a lot of the play but found it hard to finish. if we could have kept McDonald how different things may have been  

[Travers Barney]

...the Haynes story is the main reason according to Malcolm Macdonald's autobiography 'Super Mac'.

The scenario: Bobby Robson had been sacked and Trinder had appointed Johnny Haynes as care -taker manager, Alan Humphreys, one of the coaches at the time was telling players one by one to go up to the office at Craven Cottage where he was met by Johnny Haynes. According to Malcolm's account of the meeting ..."one of his first acts was to tell me I wasn't playing the following day. But I'm your highest goalscorer! I'm the only goalscorer! I protested. In response to that  Haynes sadi coldly, "As far as I am concerned you can't play and you'll never make a career for yourself in the game. And while at this club you won't play here again". Basically after that Macdonald was relegated to the reserves.

I had heard similar things before the book came out, we will never know as we only have one side of the matter, but if true that is the reason we lost our home grown, Fulham supporting, potential prolific goalscorer. Fulhamish..?

Thanks for that, LB. Very sad, if true. Those 'autobigraphies' are not always the absolute truth (macdonald had been dropped before Robon was sacked), but there must be something in it. As you say, we'll never know the other side of the story. It seems so unlike Haynes (although the wrong side of JH was probably a bad place to be at Fulham FC and Macdonald, even when he matured, could be loud-mouthed and a bit obnoxious at times) and so very short-sighted. You only have to look at the video (thanks to Ged for that) to see how well they played together.

As for the vid, two other things stand out. Firstly, poor old Frank Large, always tried, put himself about, didn't hide, got into the right spots - but never looked like scoring. The other thing is Macdonald himself. For an 18 year old having his fourth start, his performance is little short of sensational. Not only does he score a fine goal (brilliant first touch and turn from a Haynes pass/shot) and go close with two other efforts, but he crosses with both feet, passes, beats men with skill and speed, links with Haynes, tackles back and puts in those super long throws that I had forgotten about. Oh and he was good in the air, too.

All this reminds me that Macdonald was an incredible athlete. In the 70s there was a tv programme called Superstars in which stars of various sports competed against each other at various sporting tests (running, swimming, cycling etc.). Generally the footballers who appeared were pathetic (anyone remember Kevin Keegan falling off his bike?) and were put in their place by the superior fitness of the track and field and rugby stars. But when Macdonald came on it he blew eveyone away. He showed total determination and amazed everyone by clocking a 10.7 for the 100m, on a cinder track and wearing trainers.

Great and interesting thread and sorry to devalue the content but as Superstars got mentioned does anyone recall seeing Stan Bowles on one of the shows attempting to shoot?...quite hilarious.

coyw

[LBNo11]

...a short clip of his 100m win in this you tube video:-

The Superstars - Challenge of the Champions Titles/Intro

[HatterDon]

a couple of things on the video:

1. Once again, I must say that every video I've seen of Les Barrett has just made me appreciate him more. He had good pace, great balance, and two very good feet for passing and shooting. I wish to god I had a memory of him on the pitch, but I don't at all, and I usually watched left wingers and right backs more than anyone else.

2. I've not heard many memories on here about Metcalfe. He looked more than a useful keeper. What became of him?

3. Large was appropriately named, eh?

4. A very good crowd -- before the deluge at least -- for a struggling 2nd tier side. I loved the screamed "Come On You White" by a singular fan as the match began.

5. The thing I remembered most about Supermac was his pace. I think that Newcastle's strategy was to emphasize that. Many's the time he collected the ball just outside his own penalty area and hared up the field a good 5 yards in front of everyone.

6. Someone posted a very entertaining memory of #2 Pentecost on here a while back. If the person who did so reads this, could we have a reprise please?

Fulham sold Macdonald to Luton just as I left England, and Luton sold him to Newcastle just as I returned. I never saw him play for either of my teams -- until I saw this video. I was in Wembley [for my only ever visit] when he scored 5 for England.

[LBNo11]

..this one Don?

http://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=13399.0

[HatterDon]

..this one Don?

http://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=13399.0

That's the one, Ed. Thanks

[Snibbo]

But they didn't really leave for peanuts

2.5m for Mullery and 4m for Clarke in today's money values - I call that peanuts! Today I would guess 15m and 25m respectively!

Clarke's 150k was a record fee for a player at the time

But a very subjective figure, given the gross over-valuation of Large, who came to us in part-exchange. I think a truer value for Large at the time was about 15 grand.

I remember the sale of McDonald and was gobsmacked by it. I was on a train a few days later and there were a bunch of Luton fans discussing him. I told them he would be the best buy they ever made.

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

But they didn't really leave for peanuts

Sorry, I missed the `leave for peanuts'. I was concentrating on the sales of players we needed to keep to progress and who showed their long term value by having a successful career at a top club.

[RaySmith]

I remember Macdonald when he made his debut for the club - the vid shows what a talent he was.

Then I remember when he returned and became manager , and him always taking part in a prolonged warm up with the players -innovative in the days when teams only  did a few minutes  kick about about before the match. He was a very good young manager, but once again, it ended in a shambles, I seem to remember.

Good to see Frank Large . Everyone slags him off now , and he suffers in comparison to Clarke, who he replaced, but I always had a soft spot for him, and in the vid I'm reminded why - he always gave a wholehearted effort, but without much end product, though.

And how brilliant was Les Barret! as said.

[BishopsParkFantastic]

We should learn from the mistake of selling our young, talented players. Rodney Marsh (£15k to QPR -went on to play for England), Malcolm MacDonald (£17.5k to Luton - went on to play for England), Alan Mullery (£75k to Spurs - went on to play for England).... Chris Smalling (£10k? to Man U - went on to play for England and, wouldn't he be a great successor to Hangeland, can play right back and how much will he be worth in a few years time?!). Next up could be Frei, Kaca, or Trotta - and still we bring in short term, short contract players to fill gaps that block the progression of this young talent. These  young players must be given a decent run in the 1st team to gain confidence and experience.

[TonyGilroy]

We should learn from the mistake of selling our young, talented players. Rodney Marsh (£15k to QPR -went on to play for England), Malcolm MacDonald (£17.5k to Luton - went on to play for England), Alan Mullery (£75k to Spurs - went on to play for England).... Chris Smalling (£10k? to Man U - went on to play for England and, wouldn't he be a great successor to Hangeland, can play right back and how much will he be worth in a few years time?!). Next up could be Frei, Kaca, or Trotta - and still we bring in short term, short contract players to fill gaps that block the progression of this young talent. These  young players must be given a decent run in the 1st team to gain confidence and experience.

Marsh was not expected to succeed and was rep;laced by Allan Clarke.

Mullery was sold for what was then top money.

Smalling was a reserve sold for £10M approx.

MacDonald's sale was disgraceful.

With hindsight things would always be different. Frank Large is rightly considered a faiilure for us but taking him in part exchange for Clarke (who was not prepared to stay) looked sensible at the time. A regular lower league goalscorer to help us win promotion. It's not as if he had a bad charactyer and didn't try - it just didn't work out.

[A Humble Man]

I remember Macdonald when he made his debut for the club - the vid shows what a talent he was.


Then I remember when he returned and became manager , and him always taking part in a prolonged warm up with the players -innovative in the days when teams only  did a few minutes  kick about about before the match. He was a very good young manager, but once again, it ended in a shambles, I seem to remember.

Good to see Frank Large . Everyone slags him off now , and he suffers in comparison to Clarke, who he replaced, but I always had a soft spot for him, and in the vid I'm reminded why - he always gave a wholehearted effort, but without much end product, though.

And how brilliant was Les Barret! as said.

It is his speed I remember when he made his first appearance, he shot past everyone but had to do it all alone as none of the other Fulham players could keep pace. 

Letting him go was one of the worst mistakes the Club ever made.   

[BishopsParkFantastic]

Marsh was not expected to succeed and was replaced by Allan Clarke.

Mullery was sold for what was then top money.

Smalling was a reserve sold for £10M approx.

MacDonald's sale was disgraceful.

That would not be my memory or perspective on the above players:

- Fulham supporters thought Marsh was an exciting prospect, he was our future and should not have been sold. I went to school in Shepherds Bush, with the majority of students QPR supporters - I had to live QPR's success in league and cup, spearheaded by Rodney soon after we sold him! He was not replaced by Clarke - he came to us long after, with another Fulham manager in place.
- Mullery was the player, alongside Haynes in midfield that could have taken us to greatness in cup and 1st division - £75k even then was not excessive for a player of his talent and England potential. To me, and other Fulham supporters at this time, it seemed too little to compensate for the loss of such a gifted young player - he was our future, the natural partner and successor to Haynes. I could have cried!
- Smalling was our future, how much is he worth even now let alone the future? How much will a replacement for Hangeland cost, and is there an equivalent central defender  out there of sufficient high quality, and willing to join us?
- Selling Mac was a disgrace - Stock buying him "as a full back" (sic)

[TonyGilroy]

Buckingham sold Marsh and bought Clarke about a year later.

Marsh was supremely talented but considered a playboy and sold to a 3rd division club. A massive mistake in hindsight but much less so at the time.

The Mullery sale was certainly controversial if only because the manager only found out after the deed was done and supporters were upset. The price though was good. The record at the time was for Dennis Law at £110,000 and Mullery was then uncapped.

Trinder didn't invest but Mullery apart he didn't sell our best players. They got old or injured but he resisted selling Haynes and Cohen in their prime.

Smalling is an odd one. At the time of sale he wasn't close to our first team and the price offered was substantial. 3 years on I'm not sure he's quite fulfilling his potential despite his England caps. Had he stayed with us he'd have probably had another two years as reserve to Hughes & Hangeland. I can't blame the club for selling him.

[cmg]

- Fulham supporters thought Marsh was an exciting prospect, he was our future and should not have been sold. I went to school in Shepherds Bush, with the majority of students QPR supporters - I had to live QPR's success in league and cup, spearheaded by Rodney soon after we sold him! He was not replaced by Clarke - he came to us long after, with another Fulham manager in place.
- Mullery was the player, alongside Haynes in midfield that could have taken us to greatness in cup and 1st division - £75k even then was not excessive for a player of his talent and England potential. To me, and other Fulham supporters at this time, it seemed too little to compensate for the loss of such a gifted young player - he was our future, the natural partner and successor to Haynes. I could have cried!
- Smalling was our future, how much is he worth even now let alone the future? How much will a replacement for Hangeland cost, and is there an equivalent central defender  out there of sufficient high quality, and willing to join us?
- Selling Mac was a disgrace - Stock buying him "as a full back" (sic)

This has been, to me, a facinating thread, and I apologise for prolonging it. But, even though I was only a kid myself when these things happened, the memories and reactions are very vivid and still puzzle and enrage me to this day.

I thought Marsh to be an incredible player from his debut and that amazing goal against Villa. He was 18 then and, this being Fulham, he wasn't seen again that season. The next season he ran into the goalpost at Leicester and that put paid to that season (and almost to his career). The next season, at age 20, he was our leading scorer with 17 goals in the top division. How much would that make him worth today? It was clear that he was 'difficult', inconsistant and a bit wayward but Buckingham made no attempt to 'understand' him and shunted him off to the third for next to nothing - where he proceeded to score 44 goal the next season! At least managers today try to work with their wayward talent, and if they do ship them out then they get £19 million for them and they go to AC Milan.

Mullery was an obvious star from day one. He was 17 and only the very best show top-level talent from that age. He should have got a cap with us and, as I have said before, when he did get into the England side he improved a squad that had won the WC. His transfer, which astonished the fans, players, manager and Mullery himself, taught me that my team were never going to have the bottle (and/or finances) to hold on to the kind of talent which brings success. As far as I remember the money we got for him (which built a roof over the Hammersmith End) was considered reasonable at the time.

Time will tell about Smalling, but again his departure tells us all we need to know about the club's attitude (although current 'Moneyball' thinking, which seems to form part of current Fulham thinking, states that you should always accept an offer for a player if it is above your valuation of him). At present, £10m seems a reasonable deal.

I've had plenty to say about Macdonald. All I would add would be to say, take another look at that old, grainy video, concentrate on Macdonald, and ask yourself: If we had an 18 year old today who did all that stuff in his fourth start, how hot would this board be and how frightened would we be of Sir Alex knocking on the door?

[chiefo]

Great thread and thanks for posting the vids guys. Was only born few weeks after that game, and its funny my first visit was 1977 and we had the same goals then I think. Lets bring back those goals!! 092.gif