In the cold light of day

[Peabody]

I think we should all recognise that both sides (half full and half empty) should by now, recognise that neither side is going to convince each other to change their opinion and comments like waving half full glasses and boasting is not going to change anything.

[FFC1987]

I think we should all recognise that both sides (half full and half empty) should by now, recognise that neither side is going to convince each other to change their opinion and comments like waving half full glasses and boasting is not going to change anything.

Swings in roundabouts each week. I prefer the fence, slightly uncomfortable and the splinters get annoying but its quite tranquil up here!

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

I HATE it when we lose, particularly at home. I HATE it when we drop points to crap teams (wigan, reading, qpr, southampton).
However, I think (hope) the team has turned the corner for the rest of the season. Confident we will stay up and reasonably confident a few things will be sorted out for next season.  Consistency is the key, but not the aston villa type of consistency.

Fulham will be fine, 14th this season and press on.

Yes, we might finish 14th but if you look at the table it does not seem beyond the bounds of reason that we might stay ahead of all those currently below us:

Position   Team   Played   GD   Points

1   Man Utd   27   33   68
2   Man City   27   26   56
3   Tottenham   27   15   51
4   Chelsea   27   25   49
5   Arsenal   27   22   47
6   Everton   27   7   42
7   West Brom   27   2   40
8   Liverpool   27   15   39
9   Swansea   27   4   37
10   Stoke     27   -6   33
11   Fulham   27   -5   32
12   Norwich   27   -14   32
13   Newcastle   27   -10   30
14   West Ham   27   -10   30
15   Sunderland   27   -7   29
16   S'hampton   27   -11   27
17   Wigan   27   -18   24
18   Aston Villa   27   -26   24
19   Reading   27   -18   23
20   QPR           27   -24   17

[jmh]

Not sure how those first 12 games can be considered a fluke. If anything, we should of came away from those games with more points.

Agreed.  I'm not sure why the assumption is that the early run was a fluke, and the midseason doldrums (which included Hangeland missing games due to suspension and Berbatov and Ruiz and Schwarzer all missing time due to injury and Riise's drop in form that led to him being benched for a few matches, and the uncertainty about who would play central midfield that came after Diarra got hurt but before Karagounis emerged and Frimpong and Enoh came in on loan) were indicative of what the team really is.

(I mean, other than confirmation bias.)

[BarryP]

Started well, fell away badly and are now improving. Currently 11th. OK.

The only thing I would add is the stretch run will go a long way in telling how OK the squad is.

[michaelread]

our team spirit is phenomenal, i would say. when those wins come, brede especially is almost an overflowing tub of emotions. The group hug between the backs and mark, the players hanging off berba, the assistant coaches joining the hug with jol and co, berbatovs little fist pump at the final whistle, the boys KNOW what many have been spouting for a long time..

we are in transition, thats why our style changes, thats why we try new combinations, thats why we are covering on loan.

Money will be spent in the off season, i believe a substantial amount, too.

We're going to be better placed next year because we didnt waste our transfer cash overpaying in january (you cant get a bargain in jan thats not a loan)

we will resign reither, the club has an option in his contract, that was discussed in the media today.

All we need to do is stay up, the rest will come in the off season, the future is indeed very bright.

you can get a bargain in Jan. Brede and dempsey are two players on the cheap that came in. The players are out there but risks need to be taken to bring them in!

okay then, let me rephrase that.

you dont get a bargain in january unless you take a risk and spend a bit more than the player is worth (eventually cheap or not, you always pay above market value in jan).

in those seasons in which we acquired brede and clint, we NEEDED players desperately to avoid relegation.

this year, we didnt NEED to spend the money to stay up.

Jol brought in some handy players on loan to cover our midfield, and in the process, saved a couple of million to add to the kitty for the summer window.

He did a wonderful job. Emmanuelson is a brilliant player, and will hopefully find some time with us (but if we dont need him, then even better). Frimpong and enoh make our midfield that much more deep, meaning we can afford to let Kara play more often.

The loan deals were made, and not a purchase, because we dont NEED to buy players to survive this season. We only needed squad depth in the center of midfield, something we didnt have, and the main reason we were in a funk before these players came in. Our midfield was absolutely shite. At one point, it was baird and ruiz. Lovely.

So, my point is, it is not all doom and gloom. Its a season of going backwards a step in order to progress another two forward, something you have to do every now and then. Martin Jol is reshaping this club, something that is very needed. The club was aging. If 12 months ago, we had said we would have spend no money in january and be coming 11th, you'd have all taken it.

The doom and gloom mongers on this board are hilarious at times, i imagine you all wetting your pants when its stormy outside. We're well set up for the next few years. We aren't real madrid, we're fulham.

[michaelread]

lets just put it in perspective, anything more than avoiding relegation in the money hungry world of premiership football is a success for a club like us. We needed to rebuild, and you dont do that without going backwards for a while. Jol is keeping us up, while bringing in fresh faces. Have a think about the state of football and the bigger picture than the weekends results when considering his decisions. He's paid to make 'em, and for good reason. One of the better managers we have had.

[FFC1987]

Survival, the previous money banked from not desperately spending (im hoping is available) and money coming from increased tv rights makes an interesting pre season ahead!!!!

[A Humble Man]

Its all great, great, great with more great, great great to come.

If we get hammered at Sunderland will people be saying the same things though?

[FFC1987]

Its all great, great, great with more great, great great to come.

If we get hammered at Sunderland will people be saying the same things though?

I'll probably just say 'Ohhhh Greaaaaat!!!!'

[Lighthouse]

As a club who has spent thirteen odd seasons in the Prem. We should not now be thinking success for a small club like ours is staying up. We should rightly wonder why we have had a set back and hope it improves.

We should be going to Sunderland hoping for a performance and hoping for a good result. Not going there wondering if we will have more than one shot at their goal.

[FFC1987]

As a club who has spent thirteen odd seasons in the Prem. We should not now be thinking success for a small club like ours is staying up. We should rightly wonder why we have had a set back and hope it improves.

We should be going to Sunderland hoping for a performance and hoping for a good result. Not going there wondering if we will have more than one shot at their goal.

Times change matey. All I can say is I hope the reasons for this stop gap in our progression is being recognised and addressed accordingly....like with some money from previous mentioned post.

[BarryP]

Its all great, great, great with more great, great great to come.

If we get hammered at Sunderland will people be saying the same things though?

Just to keep a bit of perspective we are not all saying exactly that right now.

[Bassey the warrior]

We have taken a step backwards this season, there's no doubt about that but that's largely down to the board. Jol has done extremely well to adapt us to life without Murphy and Dembele.
It seems he was given money to spend in January as we apparently put a bid in for M'Vila. Also Stekelenburg and Huddlestone though it's unclear whether they were permanent moves or loans with a permanent option.
It didn't come off but thankfully Jol used his considerable pulling power to get in some quality players on loan.

[TonyGilroy]

As a club who has spent thirteen odd seasons in the Prem. We should not now be thinking success for a small club like ours is staying up. We should rightly wonder why we have had a set back and hope it improves.

We should be going to Sunderland hoping for a performance and hoping for a good result. Not going there wondering if we will have more than one shot at their goal.

But we're not in a relegation battle - we're 11th. How much higher should we be?

The long term planning surely is based on the money we're pumping into the academy and relying on loans and older players, I hope, is to manage the next year or two until the kids come through.

[Forever Fulham]

Stoke doesn't play well Away.  They've been in a poor run of form.  We haven't beaten quality teams this year.  Just a fact.  Don't attack me for it.  The team is put together with old timers and loaners.  It all has a stop gap feel to it, McGyvered together with chewing gum and a paper clip.  In all likelihood, we have to win at least two more games.  Or win one plus tie at least two.  Who are the likely suspects?

[Apprentice to the Maestro]

Stoke doesn't play well Away.  They've been in a poor run of form.  We haven't beaten quality teams this year.  Just a fact.  Don't attack me for it.  The team is put together with old timers and loaners.  It all has a stop gap feel to it, McGyvered together with chewing gum and a paper clip.  In all likelihood, we have to win at least two more games.  Or win one plus tie at least two.  Who are the likely suspects?

Let's eliminate all fixtures against those teams above us initially (because, clearly, we don't stand any chance of getting anything from those games :dft009:) then we still have Sunderland away, QPR at home, Newcastle away, Aston Villa away and Reading at home.

We do have three home games against better opposition from which we might scrap the odd point.

And we are already 8 points above the relegation zone.

I just hope that we get another three points this weekend just to dampen down these incessant pessimistic posts.

[filham]

Lets waite until the end of the season before we pass judgement on the current squad.
At the moment there are a few positives but my main concern is that our attacking success relies so much on how the Ruiz/ Berbatov combination performs.  At the moment we are not penatrating defences and Ruiz is looking a little slow, in the 2nd half against Stoke we rarely made the penalty area whereas they with simple long balls to Crouch were looking more dangerous.

Ruiz and Berbatov will no doubt play in most of the eleven remaining games and hopefully will develop an understanding, if they fail then the manager will need to carry out  complete rethink for next season.

[FFCByTheRiver]

As a club who has spent thirteen odd seasons in the Prem. We should not now be thinking success for a small club like ours is staying up. We should rightly wonder why we have had a set back and hope it improves.

We should be going to Sunderland hoping for a performance and hoping for a good result. Not going there wondering if we will have more than one shot at their goal.

You can navigate the other leagues with far more ease than trying to break the Premier League top 6. This season isn't out greatest, but we do not yet have the power of the really big clubs or the basic consistency of a club like Everton (which is what I'm hoping we'll develop by KEEPING Jol for a few years).

[Enter the Frei]

As a club who has spent thirteen odd seasons in the Prem. We should not now be thinking success for a small club like ours is staying up. We should rightly wonder why we have had a set back and hope it improves.

We should be going to Sunderland hoping for a performance and hoping for a good result. Not going there wondering if we will have more than one shot at their goal.

We've not had our best season I agree, but sometimes just staying up and ending up in the lower part of mid table is enough. We're not going to finish top half every year especially given what happened on the last two days of the summer transfer window and we're going to have to accept that.

In regards to your second point that's just a way of thinking, I'm going into the Sunderland game expecting us to get something out of it. Revenge for the home game, 7 points from the last 12 available, 2 goals conceded in 4 games.