January loan deals

[FFC_17]

I think everyone will agree that Urby Emanuelson was awful against QPR. Some very good points made about him not getting enough time to adapt to the Premier League, because he was brought in for only half a season.

Same can be said about Manolev and Enoh. Loaning players in their mid-twenties from a different league for 6 months just doesnt make sense to me. We spent wages (and maybe a loan fee) on players who feature 1 in every 5-10 games.

Shouldnt we give these minutes to youngsters, sparing ourselves some money in the process?

[MJG]

Agreed, we should really only loan players (in jan) who are first team ready and are going to improve the 18.
Or buy players in Jan so that come next season they are up to speed with the lge.
Urby had a good reputation and what I had seen of him he looked class.
In a couple of cameo apperances he's looked good. Aginst QPR he's just stopping the progression of Frei and Kaca for me.

[Rupert]

The way I look at it, we brought them in as cover in case the first XI suffered key injuries or loss in form. Thankfully that has not happened, so they are largely surplus to requirements.
Saying that, Sidwell now misses three matches, so one at least gets the chance to earn his place, and if he does well enough he may keep it (and who knows what might happen then). Added to that, what if Dejagah is out for a game or two? We did need a deeper squad, some of the youngsters may have been held back, on the other hand would they have benefitted from being part of a desperate relegation scrap?

[BishopsParkFantastic]

I think everyone will agree that Urby Emanuelson was awful against QPR. Some very good points made about him not getting enough time to adapt to the Premier League, because he was brought in for only half a season.

Same can be said about Manolev and Enoh. Loaning players in their mid-twenties from a different league for 6 months just doesnt make sense to me. We spent wages (and maybe a loan fee) on players who feature 1 in every 5-10 games.

Shouldnt we give these minutes to youngsters, sparing ourselves some money in the process?

I think Jol's decision to bring in players on loan; players that he had a previous association with, was safety first and dictated by our deteriorating league situation. However, I do think now, with Deja out injured, is the time to give Frei a good run on the left (with Duff on the right) of midfield. From all that I have seen, it would absolutely be right the right thing to do, to give Jack Grimmer 1st team time in central defense, playing alongside the experience of Hangeland. This would be Grimmer's  reward for his outstanding performances and captaincy of the academy - he is strong, intelligent, calm under pressure; great tackler,  reader of the game and passer of the ball....reminds me of Bobby Moore!

[cottage cheese]

Sorry but I think you are wrong! How can anyone judge Enoh and Manolev???? I Though Enoh was tidy against spurs and made some key tackles. You are basing your opinion on just one performance. I don't think I saw anyone moaning last year when Pavel came in and scored 6 goals in 3 games etc. Its a risk yes, but if it pays off then you wouldn't be on here moaning about it!

[MJG]

Sorry but I think you are wrong! How can anyone judge Enoh and Manolev???? I Though Enoh was tidy against spurs and made some key tackles. You are basing your opinion on just one performance. I don't think I saw anyone moaning last year when Pavel came in and scored 6 goals in 3 games etc. Its a risk yes, but if it pays off then you wouldn't be on here moaning about it!

the difference there was that we bought him and also needed a forward with BZ leaving.
I still maintain that Frimpong was a good loan as we needed another CM and he knows the lge.
Urby is a good player, but for Jol not to start him at all, means for me it was a waste of time.
Manolev is backup and played one game. Again I dont think he was needed and also I dont think hes the second coming as some posters think.
Enoh has made a sub appearance and a few reserve games. Again a CM, who to be honest is just making up the numbers, when my preference would have been to push one of the u21's as backup to the match day squad.

[TonyGilroy]

I agree with Rupert.

We failed to get in our targets in the window and at the last minute Jol secured loan deals for players he knew.

What then happened was that he found a settled team that produced results without needing those loanees - good for us but bad for them.

Karagounis was brought in earlier as an emergency measure and has done really well but had Diarra stayed fit we probably wouldn't have ever used him.

What I think we'll see in the next few games is an indication as to Jol's thoughts for next season which hopefully might include some youngsters.

[cmg]

This would be Grimmer's  reward for his outstanding performances and captaincy of the academy - he is strong, intelligent, calm under pressure; great tackler,  reader of the game and passer of the ball....reminds me of Bobby Moore!

Blimey! I'm all for optimism and aiming high and I know he is blonde and a defender; but comparing him to Bobby Moore isn't really doing him any favours. Moore got into the West Ham side when he was two years younger than Grimmer is now, he was capped at 21 and was captain of England at 22.
Like you, I was impressed by Grimmer in Dallas. If he turns out to be anything remotely like Mooro we will have unearthed a rare jewell indeed. Best of luck to him.

[Roberty]

Sorry but I think you are wrong! How can anyone judge Enoh and Manolev???? I Though Enoh was tidy against spurs and made some key tackles. You are basing your opinion on just one performance. I don't think I saw anyone moaning last year when Pavel came in and scored 6 goals in 3 games etc. Its a risk yes, but if it pays off then you wouldn't be on here moaning about it!

the difference there was that we bought him and also needed a forward with BZ leaving.
I still maintain that Frimpong was a good loan as we needed another CM and he knows the lge.
Urby is a good player, but for Jol not to start him at all, means for me it was a waste of time.
Manolev is backup and played one game. Again I dont think he was needed and also I dont think hes the second coming as some posters think.
Enoh has made a sub appearance and a few reserve games. Again a CM, who to be honest is just making up the numbers, when my preference would have been to push one of the u21's as backup to the match day squad.

I am sure that you have must have noticed that we have had U21 backups on the bench for for the first half of the season. I doubt that that has improved their prospects of becoming starters and Jol has now sent them off to gain experience elsewhere.

I believe that was the right decision and given that we needed cover for potential injuries it seems logical to bring in players on a try before you buy basis from other clubs. The exception being Urb who presumably is costing us very little, as he is destined to return to his club, and he would offer a good option if injuries ruled out our wide players.

At the moment we look to have too many players, but if injuries do occur Jol is going to need all the troops we have.

[Bassey the warrior]

This is nonsense. Manolev was brought in to replace Kelly, Enoh because Jol was dissatisfied with our options in central midfield, Emanuelson because Jol was dissatisfied with our options at left midfield. I agree Frei should've been given more game time, perhaps Jol worried about his fitness having spent quite a lot of time out injured. Kaca had lost form and I don't disagree with sending him out on loan to gain confidence. Hasn't really worked out for Emanuelson which is unfortunate.

[FFC_17]

Sorry but I think you are wrong! How can anyone judge Enoh and Manolev???? I Though Enoh was tidy against spurs and made some key tackles. You are basing your opinion on just one performance. I don't think I saw anyone moaning last year when Pavel came in and scored 6 goals in 3 games etc. Its a risk yes, but if it pays off then you wouldn't be on here moaning about it!

As i'm from Holland, i can judge those players pretty good. Enoh and Manolev were bit-part players for Ajax and PSV respectively. Sometimes not even on the bench! PSV and Ajax were happy to get rid of them and it makes no sense to me that Jol brought them in, quality-wise and looking at the development of Fulhams youngsters.

I really can't imagine that Manolev and Enoh have enough quality to be stand-ins for Riether and Sidwell. I hope and expect Jol to pick Frimpong ahead of Enoh, he's far too limited.

In Holland questions have been asked about Jol's 'relationship' with agent Mino Raiola, because he seems to have an unhealthy bias for players who have Raiola as their agent. Raiola brought Manolev and Enoh to Fulham last january.  When Jol was at Ajax he gained a reputation for signing Raiola's mediocre players, who would then sit on the bench/in the stands every week.

[epsomraver]

In Holland questions have been asked about Jol's 'relationship' with agent Mino Raiola, because he seems to have an unhealthy bias for players who have Raiola as their agent. Raiola brought Manolev and Enoh to Fulham last january.  When Jol was at Ajax he gained a reputation for signing Raiola's mediocre players, who would then sit on the bench/in the stands every week.

I knew he was dodgy, wait till Mo finds out! he loves agents 086.gif

[cottage cheese]

Sorry but I think you are wrong! How can anyone judge Enoh and Manolev???? I Though Enoh was tidy against spurs and made some key tackles. You are basing your opinion on just one performance. I don't think I saw anyone moaning last year when Pavel came in and scored 6 goals in 3 games etc. Its a risk yes, but if it pays off then you wouldn't be on here moaning about it!

As i'm from Holland, i can judge those players pretty good. Enoh and Manolev were bit-part players for Ajax and PSV respectively. Sometimes not even on the bench! PSV and Ajax were happy to get rid of them and it makes no sense to me that Jol brought them in, quality-wise and looking at the development of Fulhams youngsters.

I really can't imagine that Manolev and Enoh have enough quality to be stand-ins for Riether and Sidwell. I hope and expect Jol to pick Frimpong ahead of Enoh, he's far too limited.

In Holland questions have been asked about Jol's 'relationship' with agent Mino Raiola, because he seems to have an unhealthy bias for players who have Raiola as their agent. Raiola brought Manolev and Enoh to Fulham last january.  When Jol was at Ajax he gained a reputation for signing Raiola's mediocre players, who would then sit on the bench/in the stands every week.

All managers have relationships with agents, how do you think we managed to get Berbatov??

[itombomb]

We basically looked to strengthen the squad for as little money as possible to guarantee survival and get all the new TV money and keep costs down as we invest in the Stadium.

The result is we just put off the squad rebuilding that is going to be fairly extensive (and I would guess quite well financed) over the next year or two.

[fulhamphil]

W

Sorry but I think you are wrong! How can anyone judge Enoh and Manolev???? I Though Enoh was tidy against spurs and made some key tackles. You are basing your opinion on just one performance. I don't think I saw anyone moaning last year when Pavel came in and scored 6 goals in 3 games etc. Its a risk yes, but if it pays off then you wouldn't be on here moaning about it!

As i'm from Holland, i can judge those players pretty good. Enoh and Manolev were bit-part players for Ajax and PSV respectively. Sometimes not even on the bench! PSV and Ajax were happy to get rid of them and it makes no sense to me that Jol brought them in, quality-wise and looking at the development of Fulhams youngsters.

I really can't imagine that Manolev and Enoh have enough quality to be stand-ins for Riether and Sidwell. I hope and expect Jol to pick Frimpong ahead of Enoh, he's far too limited.

In Holland questions have been asked about Jol's 'relationship' with agent Mino Raiola, because he seems to have an unhealthy bias for players who have Raiola as their agent. Raiola brought Manolev and Enoh to Fulham last january.  When Jol was at Ajax he gained a reputation for signing Raiola's mediocre players, who would then sit on the bench/in the stands every week.

All managers have relationships with agents, how do you think we managed to get Berbatov??


Whenever managers get too tight to a particular agent it spells trouble! I am amazed clubs allow this practice to flourish, although federations world wide are all guilty of allowing themselves to be led a merry dance by these parasites.

Kia Joorabchian is not even a licensed agent yet is all over the transfer business like a rash. Check out his Wiki profile - has three passports and gives two differing dates of birth. Regarding the Tevez and Mascherano affair to West Ham in 2007 either he did not appreciate the FA rules on 'third party' ownership, or he did, but drove the deal through regardless knowing it to be dodgy. Either way he should not have been anywhere near the football scene in the UK.

Parlaying with him lost the Hammers £20 million in compensation 'blood money' to Sheffield United when by rights they should have had points deducted and sent down. Warnock remains bitter about it to this day, with every right to be so.

Mr Hughes was far too chummy with Joorabchian for my taste (he represents Sparky) so any transfers suggested from the agent's stable suggests a clear conflict of interest.

I too have my media contacts in Holland and Jol would do well to play the market with integrity, honesty and intelligence. Let's put it this way, I know how Roy would have handled it.

[Riverside]

3 of the 4 made and still make sense to me

Manolev - replaced Kelly . Cover for Reither

Frimpong and Enoch all CM cover .
Diarra was not going to appear again . Tavares was quietly moved on . Kara surely cannot play every game at his age . And Sidwell could well get injured or suspended . Baird though willing not really upto it .

All 3 loans with options to buy if they look as though they can make it . I think all 3 have a chance

Exception is Urby who clearly is always heading back to Milan so honesty a waste if not playing/starting ( and based on QPR he will not be starting )

[A Humble Man]

Emanulson is not tough enough for the Premier League and Jol should have realised that.  He said he wanted warriors and got a wimp.  We said the same things about Ruiz when he arrived but obviously worked very hard in the gym over the summer to build up his upper body strength. 

The game is much slower and gentler virtually everywhere else in the World.