NFR -- Di Canio to join Labour Party

[Stefano Okaka Chuka]

I apologise in advance for this. I try to keep my ramblings light hearted but I made an agreement with my father not to stay silent in such circumstances. As he was a man who was prepared to risk his life in support of his beliefs and for my future freedom,  I feel bound to respect his wishes.
He was able to do something practical in the struggle to eliminate fascism. As a BSM in the Artillery he had, at his disposal, 8 25pounder cannon so, in Italy, France, Belgium, Netherlands and Germany his contribution was somewhat direct. Fortunately he returned from this work, many of his mates did not.
Fascism is not just a 'morally bankrupt political concept' - it is an ideology dedicated to, among other things, the elimination of whole groups of certain human beings. The conflict that my father took part in was, unusually, faught, by the Allies, on the basis of Unconditional Surrender. I.e. the deal was 'we will stop killing you when you agree to stop being fascists' - and this was what, at enormous cost, eventually happened. There was no small print, no 'stop being fascists until the hooha has died down and  then you can start again.' I accept that not all our allies had clean hands and that some countries on whose behalf we were fighting ended up as badly off (or worse) than they had been at the start. But by the time the fascists had stopped being fascists everybody was  too broke or too exhausted to do anything about it, but a stand had been made.

You can't stop what goes on in people's minds,  but if Paulo Di Canio wants to articulate and espouse the principles of fascism in public then my old man (were he still around) should still have the right to lob some 25pounder ordinance at him.
I abhor the mixing of sport and politics, but Di Canio started it (whether he is really a fascist or even if he really understands what fascism is, I have no idea) and fascism is not some quirky political fad - it is a threat to us all.
As I say, I apologise for all this, but I am, unlike my father, too weak and too timid to do anything more.

:plus one: 

[bill taylors apprentice]

I apologise in advance for this. I try to keep my ramblings light hearted but I made an agreement with my father not to stay silent in such circumstances. As he was a man who was prepared to risk his life in support of his beliefs and for my future freedom,  I feel bound to respect his wishes.
He was able to do something practical in the struggle to eliminate fascism. As a BSM in the Artillery he had, at his disposal, 8 25pounder cannon so, in Italy, France, Belgium, Netherlands and Germany his contribution was somewhat direct. Fortunately he returned from this work, many of his mates did not.
Fascism is not just a 'morally bankrupt political concept' - it is an ideology dedicated to, among other things, the elimination of whole groups of certain human beings. The conflict that my father took part in was, unusually, faught, by the Allies, on the basis of Unconditional Surrender. I.e. the deal was 'we will stop killing you when you agree to stop being fascists' - and this was what, at enormous cost, eventually happened. There was no small print, no 'stop being fascists until the hooha has died down and  then you can start again.' I accept that not all our allies had clean hands and that some countries on whose behalf we were fighting ended up as badly off (or worse) than they had been at the start. But by the time the fascists had stopped being fascists everybody was  too broke or too exhausted to do anything about it, but a stand had been made.

You can't stop what goes on in people's minds,  but if Paulo Di Canio wants to articulate and espouse the principles of fascism in public then my old man (were he still around) should still have the right to lob some 25pounder ordinance at him.
I abhor the mixing of sport and politics, but Di Canio started it (whether he is really a fascist or even if he really understands what fascism is, I have no idea) and fascism is not some quirky political fad - it is a threat to us all.
As I say, I apologise for all this, but I am, unlike my father, too weak and too timid to do anything more.

No need to apologize, well said.

[b+w geezer]

I abhor the mixing of sport and politics, but Di Canio started it

He has also belatedly acted to stop it. Whether under duress and with lack of sincerity could hardly be less of my business. Whether that of anyone else on here, is a matter for individuals to ask of themselves.

The demerits of fascism are plain to me too. If others require to have them spelled out or feel the need to spell them out, then so be it. The topic is hardly unimportant. But the sooner that the Di Canio aspect is back under the saucepan lid, the better from a football-centric point of view. Anyone wishing to keep that pot boiling has questionable motives. If they are unconnected with SAFC anyway.

[Holders]

He did not need to stoop to that, better just to get on with the job and it would all blow over in a short space of time. There must be plenty of other people with dodgy views out there.

[sipwell]

Fascism is not just a 'morally bankrupt political concept' - it is an ideology dedicated to, among other things, the elimination of whole groups of certain human beings.

Although I agree with most of your sentiments and do think Di Canio is an ignorant twit, I do want to point out - for the sake of clarification - that fascism is not the same as Nazism even though they are often conflated. Fascism, in origin thus the Italian extreme right wing ideology, was not set on eliminating other groups of people. Indeed, Mussolini himself for a long time refused to deport Italian Jews. It were the Nazis, when they took over the country, who deported them.

That said, having seen what fascism did to the individual (both in theory and in practice), it is inexcusable if you still support that political view today.

[Bassey the warrior]

Fascism is not just a 'morally bankrupt political concept' - it is an ideology dedicated to, among other things, the elimination of whole groups of certain human beings.

Although I agree with most of your sentiments and do think Di Canio is an ignorant twit, I do want to point out - for the sake of clarification - that fascism is not the same as Nazism even though they are often conflated. Fascism, in origin thus the Italian extreme right wing ideology, was not set on eliminating other groups of people. Indeed, Mussolini himself for a long time refused to deport Italian Jews. It were the Nazis, when they took over the country, who deported them.

That said, having seen what fascism did to the individual (both in theory and in practice), it is inexcusable if you still support that political view today.

Fascism, Italian fascism at least seeks to expand the nation's borders displacing non-ethnically pure peoples along the way in order to create a pure empire.
It's different from Nazism in that wiping out non-ethnically pure groups was one of Nqzism's goals, but nevertheless it would wipe out ethnic people. So yes it is racist.

[Forever Fulham]

He should have said up front 'I said and did a lot of stupid things when I was younger that I'm sorry for now.  I've grown up, and I ask for forgiveness.  It's not what I believe today.'  But instead he just flatly denied saying/doing anything and everything that he did or said before.  He had his moment of opportunity and he took the coward's way out.  The hell with him.

[ron]

The paradox of living in a tolerant and benign society such as ours which is based on freedom of the individual to say (and to a lesser extent do) what he or she likes is that it needs to be subjective on what it stops people from saying and doing.

As far as I can see, the test is how much harm the activity has been proven to have done to the freedom of the individual in this society/ the wider world society in the past.

We have seen and abhorred that the waving of certain types of fruit and making certain noises at stadia have no place in the game because they alienate and weaken the society that we have.

By that yardstick, 55 million deaths including a holocaust caused by the poisoned minds of a nation during the last century should be ample proof to the most democratic and tolerant of nations that Fascism in all its forms is a contagion, and by not allowing it to prosper, we don't weaken our society by denying free speech, but rather strengthen it by encouraging freedom and equality for all citizens.

[HatterDon]

I apologise in advance for this. I try to keep my ramblings light hearted but I made an agreement with my father not to stay silent in such circumstances. As he was a man who was prepared to risk his life in support of his beliefs and for my future freedom,  I feel bound to respect his wishes.
He was able to do something practical in the struggle to eliminate fascism. As a BSM in the Artillery he had, at his disposal, 8 25pounder cannon so, in Italy, France, Belgium, Netherlands and Germany his contribution was somewhat direct. Fortunately he returned from this work, many of his mates did not.
Fascism is not just a 'morally bankrupt political concept' - it is an ideology dedicated to, among other things, the elimination of whole groups of certain human beings. The conflict that my father took part in was, unusually, faught, by the Allies, on the basis of Unconditional Surrender. I.e. the deal was 'we will stop killing you when you agree to stop being fascists' - and this was what, at enormous cost, eventually happened. There was no small print, no 'stop being fascists until the hooha has died down and  then you can start again.' I accept that not all our allies had clean hands and that some countries on whose behalf we were fighting ended up as badly off (or worse) than they had been at the start. But by the time the fascists had stopped being fascists everybody was  too broke or too exhausted to do anything about it, but a stand had been made.

You can't stop what goes on in people's minds,  but if Paulo Di Canio wants to articulate and espouse the principles of fascism in public then my old man (were he still around) should still have the right to lob some 25pounder ordinance at him.
I abhor the mixing of sport and politics, but Di Canio started it (whether he is really a fascist or even if he really understands what fascism is, I have no idea) and fascism is not some quirky political fad - it is a threat to us all.
As I say, I apologise for all this, but I am, unlike my father, too weak and too timid to do anything more.

Well said, good sir. And I  065.gif the memory of your father, mine, and all those who helped rid the world of that scourge. It's sad that it was only stamped down temporarily.

[Berserker]

Plus my father in RAMC WW2

[Bassey the warrior]

You'll never guess who is excited to buy a bunch of Sunderland merch!  That's right: actual aryan fascists. 
  http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t957716/

Here's an exert from the introduction to Stormfront:

"If Blacks or Mexicans become a majority, then they will not be able to maintain the White man's social, cultural and economic systems because they do not have to minds needed to do so...How could people have become so detached from reality to believe the delusion of racial equality?...The origin of the problem with the Jews is, once again, in the blood. As a group, a race, they suffer from psychopathy - a mental disorder whose main symptom is the ability to lie like there is no tomorrow."

This racialist pseudo-science is such an anachronism, it's like a history trip back to Nazi Germany. Incredible people can still believe this rubbish. I assume they're not particularly well educated.

[Rupert]

You'll never guess who is excited to buy a bunch of Sunderland merch!  That's right: actual aryan fascists. 
  http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t957716/

Here's an exert from the introduction to Stormfront:

"If Blacks or Mexicans become a majority, then they will not be able to maintain the White man's social, cultural and economic systems because they do not have to minds needed to do so...How could people have become so detached from reality to believe the delusion of racial equality?...The origin of the problem with the Jews is, once again, in the blood. As a group, a race, they suffer from psychopathy - a mental disorder whose main symptom is the ability to lie like there is no tomorrow."

This racialist pseudo-science is such an anachronism, it's like a history trip back to Nazi Germany. Incredible people can still believe this rubbish. I assume they're not particularly well educated.

No, not particularly well educated, and as far as I can see, the best way to deal with these people is not to try to ban them, but to encourage them to come out and spout this nonsense, just like the BNP man did on Question Time, and then let real intellectuals rip him to pieces by pointing out all the inconsistencies.
I remember, many years ago now, the Socialist Workers Party having one of their periodic sulks after a Tory election victory (one of Maggie's I think) and a bloke from work was there, in the front, handing out leaflets demanding we kicked the government out. He got really upset when I told him the country had decided not to the week before at the General Election, he said it was the wrong result. He got even more upset when I laughed and told him it was democracy in action. The SWP apparently do not think too much of democracy. But, I would much rather have them, and the BNP and EDL and all the other loonies out in the open, where we can see them.

[Forever Fulham]

Plus my father in RAMC WW2

My dad fought as well.  I wouldn't have been born if the torpedo that hit his ship had detonated.  Saved by a dud.  What a sickening feeling it must have been to see a torpedo coming at you, and being unable to evade it in time.  He never forgot that moment.

[cebu]

Oh boy, do take a look at this:

http://www.sportinglife.com/other-sports/news/article/2/8620512/what-the-papers-say

Scroll down to The Independent, where it says:

Harry Redknapp, the Queen's Park Rangers manager, said last night that political criticisms of the appointment of Paolo Di Canio as Sunderland head coach were rooted in double standards.


Then scroll down to The Guardian, where it says:

Paolo Di Canio has been praised by John Terry ahead of the Italian's first game in charge of Sunderland ...


With such illustrious fans, he must be OK?      fp.gif